Mini 1135: Deadmines - DONE. PRAISE AZEROTH.

[Antihero]

Going for

Parama

:

• Since Parama gifted smarge, he obviously wasn't prohibited from gifting scum. So, if he was scum, why wouldn't he just gift smarge the kill instead of giving it to Kairyuu. Either Parama is extremely arrogant (guess I'm not entirely ruling that out), or he's not scum.

Hm, I thought this list would be longer.

I'd still kind of like to know fully how his role works. To my knowledge he has 3 abilities (vig, tracker, and bg gifts). They're all submitted during the day (?????), but he got roleblocked once (??????) (this was when reck also claimed the roleblocked). Now, what's up with the distribution of actions? Do you get to gift each thing an X number of times, or can you not gift the same thing on consecutive nights, or what.......

[Parama]

I can gift whichever one I want to as many times as I want to. I've been using actions that I felt were most informative due to the scenario at the time:
N1 - town didn't really have much information, so I went for getting some of that. smarg had been, I felt, townish throughout D1 without being obvious town.
N2 - I wanted to get a better read on Kairyuu, and wanted to make sure Bub didn't survive the night. These two interests coincided.
N3 - I wanted Sathoris, my cop clear, to use the bg on Reck who seemed pretty townish at the time (oh lawd). Dunno who he used it on but.
N4 - Likely going into LyLo, so I didn't want to give out a vig, and town needed all the info it could get. Perfect timing for me to get blocked, of course >.<
N5 - For information, again. I figured you were least likely to die, partially because I felt you were likely to be scum gifting randomcops.

[Antihero]

Now, going for Reck:

• Say what you want about bussing, but if I get an extra vote power as scum, I'm keeping it to LYLO. I find it hard to believe that a player like reck would go "herp derp, no use for this" and blow it on Day 1 (no one really cares what happened D1 later on, anyway; it's not prime bussing time).

Going against reck:

• Lying about actions for no apparent pro-town reason and apparently not being able to keep track of actions. This one is kind of a big deal to me.

[xRECKONERx]

As I've explained, I lied to confuse scum. Kairyuu and I even had an exchange about it somewhere, because after I came clean about something, he was like "You idiot. Lie more."

For Parama's points, he could have either been gifting to confirm himself to others, OR it could be a mechanic with a scumgroup eavesdrop as I hypothesized earlier.

[inHimshallibe]

Bueller?

[Parama]

I'm bored.

[xRECKONERx]

Me too.

[Antihero]

Ugh, everytime I talk myself into a reck hammer, that sap power argument nags at me.

Parama, you got blocked Day 3? A scum day-roleblocker? How does that work?

reck, anything else you want to say? I'm probably going to hammer you next post.

[Parama]

I dunno how it works. I guess it could've been submitted like my actions? Seems odd though.

[Antihero]

I dunno how it works. I guess it could've been submitted like my actions? Seems odd though.

Yeah, well given that the other roleblocks were at night, it seems like BS.

[xRECKONERx]

I've argued my case and tried to explain why I'm town. The only summary I can give is this:

- I led a wagon on Enigma, who was scum, D1.
- I used my vote-sap ability to hammer Enigma D1.
- I am publicly ability confirmed as using the vote-sap, which means I cannot be a roleblocker. Period.
- Overall, I contributed to the game more than Parama, and actually did some scumhunting and useful shit instead of lurking through the entire game then hoping for an easy win at the end.
- Not to mention, I got a guilty on him.
- Parama is claiming to be day-blocked, which is bullshit, seeing as how all the other blocks were magically at night, and there were NO other day abilities.

I could explain Parama's ability one of two ways: either he IS a scum inventor who chose to give stuff out to confirm himself, OR there is indeed a hidden need/greed mechanic which scum is privy too. Neither of those make perfect sense, logically, but there has to be an explanation.

Anyway, do what you want. If we lose at this stage, gg Parama & co., and it will just further go to show that lynch all lurkers really is a good policy. Also, maybe it'll go to show Kairyuu that he shouldn't try to use his bullshit HEY GUYS LET'S MASSCLAIM SO I CAN TRY TO BREAK THE SETUP tactics anymore.

[Antihero]

But why would Parama lie about being roleblocked? What does he have to gain?

[xRECKONERx]

Spreading confusion? Like it has clearly done?

[Parama]

I dunno how it works. I guess it could've been submitted like my actions? Seems odd though.

Yeah, well given that the other roleblocks were at night, it seems like BS.

*headdesk*
What I mean is, it's submitted prior to a lynch, but affects all night actions of the player targeted. AND YES, MY ACTION IS A NIGHT ACTION YOU TARDS.

[Antihero]

I dunno how it works. I guess it could've been submitted like my actions? Seems odd though.

Yeah, well given that the other roleblocks were at night, it seems like BS.

*headdesk*
What I mean is, it's submitted prior to a lynch, but affects all night actions of the player targeted. AND YES, MY ACTION IS A NIGHT ACTION YOU TARDS.

Yes, there's a word for night actions submitted during the day.

They're called DAY ACTIONS.

[Parama]

And mine doesn't resolve during the day. Therefore, not a day action. I don't think it's "technically" a night action either but the resolution is more similar to a night action than a day action.

[Antihero]

Right after lynch scene

, mod PMed me that my action "missed" due to counterspell. I submit my action before lynch is reached, and the ability is given to the player, usable on the same night.

This still implies that either a) the RBer had to have been online during the lynch scene AND not consulted his partner or b) the block is also "submit before lynch." Neither of which I find likely.

So, now I've kind of talked myself into a Parama hammer. Only thing here is, what exactly is this scum mechanism? There's nothing to Parama from gifting buddies (also seems broken), so why would Parama continue to shell out stuff to townies?

I need to go look at what Enigma said about reck D1. I remember it as maybe coming off as distancing, but I'd have to look again.

[Parama]

At this rate you're going to out-WIFOM yourself and end up hammering the mod or something silly like that.

[Parama]

Let's boil it down to the basic facts:
1. Both me and Reck's powers would be broken for scum to have if there wasn't a restriction. If I were scum, something outrageous like specifically preventing me gifting dayvigs but not the other two would have to be the handicap, but if Reck were scum, all it would take is the inability to use Sap at LyLo.
2. Reck has lied about his role several times, remaking his claim each time. I have never told a lie about my role or its abilities.
3. Reck used Sap to hammer someone WHO WAS ALREADY DEAD. There was no way Enigma was surviving past Day 1. Reck just used his ability to pull this exact type of stunt, and damn it's been working good.

[xRECKONERx]

Enigma wasn't surviving past D1 because I called him out on his bullshit. Nobody else would've caught that. Starbuck caught on to something else which was complete bullshit, but the main thing that sold it was the thing that I, specifically, picked up on. I used sap because after Enigma flipped scum, I didn't want to die overnight without having used at least one of my abilities, and PLUS I thought (welp maybe this'll draw the kill since I have a one-shot kill dodge) WHICH IT DID.

Only thing here is, what exactly is this scum mechanism? There's nothing to Parama from gifting buddies (also seems broken), so why would Parama continue to shell out stuff to townies?

I would say the scum mechanic would be some kind of Eavesdropping mechanic. Relevant links:
http://wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/Eavesdropper
Or, the Xylbot description:

Eavesdropper (town, mafia, mafia-ally; uncommon; 4+ players): You may tap a player's communicaton lines, recieving duplicates of all game messages they recieve that night. Actions: eavesdrop

You can also see Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time role PM for a cheater, a similar role:

Aim for her when she appears! now available in blue!

Welcome to Ocarina of Time Mafia,

Substrike22

. You are

Beth

. You are the second youngest of the Poe sisters and you’re...blue? You and your sisters have decided to capitalize on this recent invasion of Hyrule by attempting to take the land for your own...but you’re gonna have to kill a hell of a lot of people to do it! You’re a poe, though, you’re evil anyway, so who cares?

Race:

Poe

Faction:

Poe

You are a

Poe Cheating Even-Night Strongman

. You have the following special abilities:

Passive Abilities:

Forest Temple

- You share a quicktopic with Amy (Albert B. Rampage), Meg (Diddin) and Joelle (bunnylover), in which you can discuss at any given time.

Ghastly Support

- For as long as Meg has a decoy spirit set on you, you may action twice. Even though it is a passive ability, this can be used to double up Soul Reading. Note that this cannot be used to perform two mafia kills.

Soul Reading

- Each night, you will be informed of the existence of a specific role in the setup randomly. For example: Poe Cheating Even-Night Strongman.

Deep Darkness

- If you perform a kill on an even night, it will be a strongman kill.

False Identity

- You know that

Rauru

is not in the setup. As such, you possess a fakeclaim to this effect.

Active Abilities:

Cold Flame

- Each night, you may choose with your scumbuddies which one of you will perform the mafia kill.

Please remember that you can use only one active ability per phase.

Win Condition (Poe):

You win when nothing can prevent the Poe Scum from winning the game.

Please confirm via return PM.

Forest Temple: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/YuUsmdK73vD
The topic is here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&start=0

Another Xylbot example:

Cheater (town, mafia, mafia-ally; uncommon; 4+ players): Each night you learn the role PM of a random role in the setup, but not who has it. Actions: (auto)cheat

There are plenty of abilities like that, and rolling one of them into the setup to detect what gift is going out or who it's going to would've been an easy way to counterbalance town having a cop giver outer, a JOAT, a bulletproof, and a doctor.

[Parama]

V/LA for most of tomorrow.

[Antihero]

Reck: OK, well you're under the assumption that I believe in the "roll for loot" theory, and I don't because why would I have this gifter ability and then there be some random, hidden mechanic of random people getting random things? Nah.

Parama was calling Reck confirmed on D2; the way I see it, scumParama would have gone after Reck a lot earlier (and a hell of a lot earlier than he would have gone after ENDER, lol). Reck, on the other hand, was keeping his options open (like me yesterday).

Alright, this game has to end (I'm probably going to end up making the wrong decision anyway, so I might as well not waste anymore time on this). One more post from you two, and the hammer is coming down (for real this time).

[Antihero]

Gah, that ender kill is really bizarre. There has to be some kind of significance surrounding that. What were scum gunning for there? They chose to forgo a kill on the claimed doc for frickin' ender? Something in my gut says they were gunning for the tracker gifter and they narrowed it down to ender and Parama (like I did in the list I posted that day). Did they figure Parama was more likely to draw the doc?

That Parama block thing is still nagging at me. I was alerted of my tracker ability at the beginning of the night, so apparently, that resolves quickly. How does that get blocked? I guess the resolution of the scum roleblock is unknown, so I can't really worry about that....

Parama also used the cop I gave him D1 to confirm one of the people he thought was scum. He could have said that about one of his townreads, or run a gambit and "confirmed" one of his buddies. Really, at this point, I'm seeing that almost none of Parama's actions this game are consistant with him being scum. On the other hand, reck planned to use his action on smargaret and claimed no result.

Enigma stuff: I see Reck was trying to line up Sathoris lynch after Enigma lynch (scumParama could've ridden that train, but derailed it instead).

Read smargaret ISO 44. Now, if that was the only post I saw, I would guess reck was the scumbuddy who marge needed to save her.

I'm kinda ready to drop the hammer now, but I'll let both of you make 1 more post.

[Parama]

*snore*

[xRECKONERx]

I've made my defenses, and like I said, if you hammer me and Parama wins, no hard feelings. This is a tough spot to be in.