Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

[Workdawg]

Wow, right about 5 hours to deadline and it's still dead in here. Has been all day.

I would also like to hear what alnpka has to say about those questions.

[startransmission]

Back from work and am pleased to see the day hasn't ended quite yet. Preparing post, might be 45 minutes or so.

[Antihero]

Vote Count #16

alnkpa - 1 (Kard)
Workdawg - 3 (drmyshottyizsik, h3ll0, Zdenek)
Zdenek - 4 (Workdawg, alnkpa, chkflip, Bulvious)

Not Voting: startransmission

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Deadline is April 15th. Countdown to deadline.

[Workdawg]

ST is the only one not voting, and he's promised a case soon. F5 F5 F5

[startransmission]

I don't find Alnpka to be a viable lynch at this time. Solid points against him have been brought up, and his responses have been...soft. His VLA may have been genuine, but the timing is fishy. He promises to answer questions, yet has not done so. So, some anti-town play, but nothing definitive. His lynch, I think, would offer town very little information.

Zedenek. His case on h3llo was weak. His ideas of town-tells are questionable. His persistence to wagon up on lurkers is not anti-town, but when it comes as early and often as it did with him it's not exactly helpful. What strikes me is that a lot of the criticism on him has been based on his attitude, on how people feel about the way he comes off. I'll agree that he can be a bit brusque, but brevity is not scummy. Some, ZD for example, would say it's towny. He casts a wide net of suspicion on players, but seems willing to commit only when it appears the wagon can go through. On D1 that's not super scummy, but it rubs me the wrong way nonetheless. I think I very mildly lean town, though I admit that his lynch would be an informative one.

DMSIS. Tunneling on WD. I don't find his case terribly convincing, but he seems convinced. Very little to go off of. WD targets him for not participating, and since then it's been a back and forth. I don't know that DMSIS is wrong. But I've laid out my opinion on WD, and WD's response to DMSIS hasn't made me more suspicious of him.

Out of the two leading wagons (Al and ZD) I think ZD's is the most beneficial to town. Obviously if he's town his lynch will hurt, but there's more to mine from his lynch. If it comes down to deadline I will drop the hammer.

On to h3llo in the next post.

[startransmission]

EBWOP:

Out of the two leading wagons (WD and ZD). Alnpka is not a leading wagon.

[drmyshottyizsik]

WD and Zd actually would make sense as a scum team... obvious distancing, bussing and well they both look scummy...... If in 2 hours no one has changed their vote I will hammer.

[startransmission]

h3llo. His response to early pressure from Bulvious was adequate. His suspicions of SF was justified. What bothers me about it is he makes a point of criticizing SF for not scum hunting, but by that point in the game he had done little himself. He responded to Bulvious, made some...observations, and gave his opinion on active lurking. Nothing to glean from any of that. And there's the little interaction with Fatso, which involved some confusion about who posted what when... the whole thing made my eyes glaze over and amounted to nothing. Then there's the post where he answers a question oddly directed at him by Bulvious, and congratulates Bulvious for noticing the lack of input from Alnpka. This put previous interactions with Bulvious in a different light for me, and it's where I first began to suspect a relationship between the two. That's not me looking to hunt in pairs, that's just a gut feeling that I still can't shake. If anything, it's buddying which I find scummy, but wouldn't be on Bulvious's head

What follows is a debate between ZD and h3llo. ZD pushes a case against h3llo. h3llo fights back and does a fair job. That's not hard to do, as the case against him, or at least the way it's presented, isn't the strongest. What bothers me is the vote at ZD, which is a

touch

OMGUS. Though if he really felt that ZD was just mudslinging I suppose I can see it as that would be a reason to find ZD scummy. When ZD presents a case that h3llo does find "concise" (and it was) his response to it was decent. Or it least it seemed honest. What bothers me is that he then responds to Fatso's opinion that he looked a little scummy with a vote. He couches it in his feeling that Fatso is fencesitting, though I don't see it that way at all. That's twice now a player has voiced concern over h3llo and has been rewarded with a quick vote from h3llo.

He continues to defend (notably from Bulvious) his opinion on why he finds Fatso to be fencesitting. To be fair he seems to honestly believe it, and offers what he feels are examples. He softclaims town. He stays on Fatso and says he doesn't think Kard has done enough to erase the scumminess on the Fatso slot. Then, with an explanation that I do not buy

at all

and he puts WD at L-2. It seems to come out of the blue. An excellent time to place a vote on a growing wagon, especially with the deadline fast approaching. Not to be heard from since.

Summary- Not much to hold up as a solid case. There's hypocrisy- criticizes players for not scumhunting, while doing little himself. He even admits as much. His case on ZD is weak, as is his case on Fatso. There's a touch of OMGUS- in two out of his four votes he votes for a player (ZD and Fatso respectively) soon after they vote/voice suspicion on him. Buddying to Bulvious. Wagon hopping- his vote for WD seems opportunistic. The reasoning is weak, the timing fishy, and the subsequent disappearance combine for a scummy act.

Vote: h3llo

I know it's not a rock 'n roll case, but as opposed to ZD I'm more inclined to lean scum on h3llo. I think his lynch would be informative as well, no matter his alignment. I don't think I will I hammer ZD. The more I sit here and type and think about it, the less willing I feel. Not that that'll save him, it appears to be the wagon of choice at this late hour.

[startransmission]

I don't think I will I hammer ZD. The more I sit here and type and think about it, the less willing I feel.

While I won't be thrilled with his lynch, I do prefer it over a no-lynch. So, obviously I'd hammer out of principal.

[drmyshottyizsik]

well deadline is in 2 hours...

[Kard]

It's actually in like, 36 minutes..gonna re-read really fast, and then I'll post and hammer if I must.

[Kard]

Zd, just gonna say this now, if you're gonna claim, now's the best time to do it, it looks like I'm the only one on, so I won't hammer until closer to the end

[Kard]

VOTE: Zdenek[/unvote]

What stands out for me mainly is him voting Aln earlier, it seems like he was trying to get people off of him.

[Kard]

err, oops



UNVOTE: aln

VOTE: zdenek

[Workdawg]

Oh dang... I didn't realize the deadline was east coast time. I guess that's that then. Way to keep us moving Kard... a no lynch would have been nothing but trouble for us. Even number on D2 with two scum left = DO NOT WANT.

I think ST's case against h3ll0 is logical and I will go back and review the context during our upcoming night phase.

Before we go, I have one comment to make (and imagine, it's against shotty).

WD and Zd actually would make sense as a scum team... obvious distancing, bussing and well they both look scummy...... If in 2 hours no one has changed their vote I will hammer.

Really? You think I subbed in and immediately started bussing my partner for no reason, halfway into the day when there was almost no pressure on him? IF I were his scum partner, don't you think I would have joined his side against h3ll0 and tried to make something out of their bickering rather than rally against him when neither of their cases were very strong? I hardly think pushing for his lynch the past TEN DAYS is a realistic to be accusing me of bussing.

[Antihero]

Final Vote Count of Day 1

h3ll0 - 1 (startransmission)
Workdawg - 3 (drmyshottyizsik, h3ll0, Zdenek)

Zdenek - 5 (Workdawg, alnkpa, chkflip, Bulvious, Kard)

Not Voting: No one!

Stand by for lynch scene.

[Antihero]

...and the debate began. As people started making rambling speeches, Zdenek had the misfortune of having his gun fall out of his tacky trenchcoat. Before he could claim his true identity, though, he was hanged.

Zdenek, Cop, has been lynched!

Ouch. Oh well, better luck tomorrow, I guess.

Night will last a minimum of 48 hours and a maximum of 72 hours. Good night!

[Antihero]

Everyone wakes up the next day after not getting much sleep and gathers in the town square, except for startransmission. The townspeople didn't even have to go inside his house (or, really, what was left of his house) to know what became of him.

startransmission, Townie, has been incinerated!

It is now Day 2. With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch. Deadline is May 9th.

[h3ll0]

I know this is a little late, but...

I'm not really sure how you got to that, I just looked at the votecount and saw that aln and Zd were both at L-2. I guess if you want to mix it up again that's fine. Do you have a case against me this time, or is my comment just making you uneasy? As far as I can tell, you've never voiced suspicion against me before.

True, I never did voiced suspicions against you prior. I choose to vote for you because I didn't feel that either the case on Alpnka and Zdenek was solid. And to me your post read "we can only vote for Zdenek or Alpnka", which certainly wasn't true.

[drmyshottyizsik]

vote workdawg

[Workdawg]

Well... that was unexpected. Why would he have been making up a case against me and pushing it so hard? Crap. I guess I should apologize to the rest of the town for getting that wrong; sorry about that. I thought for sure he was scum and it just doesn't make sense to me.

@h3ll0

- I guess I can sort of see that, but it's pretty fishy to me. It certainly was a convenient time to try and jump on my wagon. That said... ST's case against you was accurate (clarification for shotty: the things he said were true, NOT that I necessarily think you are scum), but as he pointed out himself, the case was really weak.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Congrats workdawg you made your self look more scummy! Also if you really thought he was town then you wouldn't need to appologize. More votes please.

[alnkpa]

One remark first: I was making this post before the day began, so don't be irritated if I don't go into posts that came in the new day. Furthermore I want to excuse myself for me being not active till the deadline, but it was early in the morning over here at about 7am. And I really didn't want to get up at 5am.

I'm sorry for the following wall, I'm just catching up. I marked the areas in which I was talking about one person for more than a quote for your convenience.

Bulvious

Maybe this will come off bad, but to me it seems like you're backing away from the game at a pretty crucial time when you're under pressure. To me this appears as though you're evading and at this point avoiding slips. You'll give no input over the next few days as you've done largely across the game. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong - but this seems like a scum maneuver.

Not that it's scummy to V/LA, but it justs seems consistent with all of your other actions.

Yeah I know it and I am still sorry for it. But it was the first week of a new semester and i had to do many things at once and MS fell short. Concerning me giving no input: I don't think there's even the slightest chance for me to convince you that I'm giving input. As not many seemed to agree with you, I will ignore it a bit from now on until you have further evidence against me.

Case in point: Hunting in partners is stupid. Assuming I'm scum because I defended someone is dumb. Now, obviously, scum would have NO reason to defend THREE people who he could have pushed a lynch for instead. That doesn't make ANY sense. Scum only have one partner, Star. To me, if your case is still ONLY based on that, I don't see how there's any stock in it.

Well one of them could be your scumpartner. And buddying with one or two townies doesn't seem to special to me. You could have them on your side in a lylo-situation after all.

Re-reading all of his posts for the second time, and I can't find anything that stick out too scummy to me, except for his "i'm bad a scum hunting" and that's just a gut feeling, and there's a large chance it could be incredibly wrong, as I'm not experienced with scumhunting.

So you find it scummy that WD says he's bad at scumhunting though you aren't sure because as you say you are bad at scumhunting? You are contradicting yourself.

drmyshottyizsik

No pro-town person would approve of a Lynch all lurkers policy conditionally.

How would a pro-town person act then? No lynch-all-lurkers ever? Only lynch-all-lurkers?

Yet you didn't want to lynch people based off of activity or lack there of? O RLY?!?!?!
NO! LIES AND MORE LIES!
I have caught you in your own web, now please die.
Some one lynch this guy.

You are shouting at people but don't give much reasons. You seem rather reactive to me. And you just pressure others without you giving them reasons.

To recap what Zd says about me that's ACTUALLY true:
I've taken a wishy-washy stance on HIM (because I didn't want to think he was scum just because his play rubs me the wrong way.)
I haven't been scum hunting that much, except for him. (Though I have prodded at a few others)
I "bulked up" my case against him with things that aren't scum tells (but they DO help establish context for my reads)

Why did you do that? Why weren't you bringing hard facts rather than softly attacking him?

I can not really quote anything from st, but here I quite agree with Bulvious—which is rather exceptional. He didn't provide much content in the last days to the deadline.
Well h3llo seems to be the same. Not really providing anything. At least I had some sort of excuse.

Phew, some big wall. Did quite some catching up. Analysis of the current day coming soon.

[h3ll0]

Well... that was unexpected. Why would he have been making up a case against me and pushing it so hard? Crap. I guess I should apologize to the rest of the town for getting that wrong; sorry about that. I thought for sure he was scum and it just doesn't make sense to me.

@h3ll0

- I guess I can sort of see that, but it's pretty fishy to me. It certainly was a convenient time to try and jump on my wagon. That said... ST's case against you was accurate (clarification for shotty: the things he said were true, NOT that I necessarily think you are scum), but as he pointed out himself, the case was really weak.

So what exactly do you think of me? Scum or Town? You obviously enjoy to give open-ended "opinions" which doesn't lock you into a stance.

[Bulvious]

Actually, Aln, people tend to agree, they just think that you're too noob for it to be a scum-tell.

Two things to look at:

Star's last vote was against h3ll0 - he died.
Kard refused to vote until the very last minute, which ended up being the hammer - the result was Zdenek flipping cop.

Of course I'm not saying it's scummy to hammer town, but I find it odd that he generally refuses to place a vote, and decides to go with Zdenek. He says 36 minutes prior to deadline that he will quickly re-read (which means to me that he will skim the topic to a degree) and then posts his vote with the bare minimum. I don't like it.


Additionally, Zdenek's hesitance to claim should have probably meant something to us, still, if he had been less pro-self preservation and more pro-town he would have claimed, and we would have maybe lynched someone who wasn't the cop, though he would have been the NK. Not what happened, but oh well - that's how I view it.


Aln, I like your newest post - keep that up, it's what we want to see even if it is long.

My only thing to really quote and comment on for the moment is:

WD wrote:
Well... that was unexpected. Why would he have been making up a case against me and pushing it so hard? Crap. I guess I should apologize to the rest of the town for getting that wrong; sorry about that. I thought for sure he was scum and it just doesn't make sense to me.

Let it be a lesson to you then - just because a town member is pushing a vote against you and you know you're town doesn't mean the towny is scum. He pushed the case against you because he thought/thinks you're scum. And at this point, with your following bit of info comes off oddly to me. You can agree with his PoV, but it's fishy - contradicting, Rather, you say "I guess I can sort of" which is a bit of that wishy-washyness people are talking about. Stop it.