Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[Looker]

Hello.

Egg; JesseSheffield; MidnightHike

AntB; Nachomamma8

andrew94; brokenscraps; farside22

drmyshottyizsik; Archer

smashbro_of_the_SSS; lord_hur

Posts and voting coming soon.

[Looker]

lord_hur

• I don't think suicidal play is indicative of town; however, I agree with your sense of AntB being town. What's your opinion of sotS?

[Looker]

• Because I don't see it. I also don't see how we could run up a lynch with only two options. I want to throw a third one in there for good measure.

[Looker]

• Read through and nothing jumps out at me as uber scummy. Got my eyes on lord_hur and sotS but nothing damning's come up yet.
  
• Until his return or an adequate replacement, VOTE: smashbro_of_the_SSS.

[Looker]

Sorry; made the jump to my deployed location. Still setting things up, but I should have time to get back in here and hash things out within 24 hours. Once again, I apologize for the delay.

[Looker]

Okay I'll give a nice, long comprehensive post in the morning. Apologies for the delay in helpfulness.

• I agree with your opinion of overdefensiveness and find it a greater tell than the one he was defending.
  
• I don't entirely agree with your opinion of half-jokes simply for the fact that sometimes I'm
  not
  entirely sure or serious; however, I'll usually state why.
  
• I respect and honor you stating your opinion.
  
• And I admire you having no qualms with calling people out - it paints you townish in my book.

Agree with what nacho said. I questioned farside instead of defending nacho, but his scum list seemed perfectly reasonable. I mean it's still day 1, but it's entirely reasonable that 2 or 3 scum are all on his list. That's not even a "big" stretch. A bigger stretch would be putting ant and nacho as scum together.

• Your first big post of the game was crazy, dude; I couldn't even read that. Me personally, I'd recommend bullets so people know when you're trying to make a point and when you've moved on to the next one. What you did just seemed like idle, half-hearted rambling.
  
• I
  did
  , however, see my name and the question you posed. The answer: my scumlist.
  
• Also: Indirect defense of Shotty? Attack of sotS? Really? I'm not seeing it.

V/LA for a day

• Saw my name in your lurker roll call - my bad, got shit to do.
  
• Your posts seem like a debate to me, as if you're trying to convince AntB that he's scum.

---

• Nachomamma8 I have no read on; currently reading through sotS/andrew94 and then moving down to DMSIS/AntB.
  
• Any questions, ask while I still have access.

[Looker]

As to why AntB doesn't believe what he says, refer to #175. The first quote is him saying his scumdar was pinged quite badly, and that brokenscraps's case "failed". And yet, no vote. This shows that his scumdar wasn't pinged that badly, since when people find scum, they put a vote along with their suspicions.

Note the lack of meta here.

You infer a general meta which applies to all players, expecting me to fit in with it and begin pushing a case based on non-conformity to said meta meta.

---

You also still haven't answered my question.

I would have probably dismissed the point either way,

---

So now covering up a slip isn't serious... sure whatever.

My vote was serious, in "serious times" as I felt (and still do feel) he was(is) trying to cover for a slip

Once again for further clarification, "sure whatever" is a sarcastic dismissal of the point. I have stated this once already.

---

Answer ALL of my questions.

I am doing...

---

My suspicions on andrew94 are raised from his vote on me and the painstaking process of getting a reason out of him for it.

---

You state you can't remember why you voted me, yet earlier you state you were reaction fishing.

---

The possible contradiction is in listing me as scum for pressing a brokenscraps case, then listing archer as scum for ignoring it.

• Read part of your argument with Nachomamma8 and it seems you guys are arguing more over playstyle than the actual probability of either of you being scum. You're sarcastic, you're "cool" - I get it.

shooty requested replacement david.

• More "confirmed 2nd" debate - pointless.
  
• Until you can find something worthwhile to comment on or assert, UNVOTE: VOTE: andrew94.

[Looker]

Due to deadline I will be happy to vote either Nacho or Andrew for reasons outlined, not sure what the policy is on Bella, but I will also be happy to bump her, egg or smash for lack of content.

My preferred option remains Nacho.

• What reasons outlined?
  
• Not knocking your lenience to jumping on wagons, but when you say "Reasons on Nacho and Andrew should be clear", what exactly are you talking about?

batt gave a bs example.
if all mafia games were 'if i lynch x i know who y is'

its called 'bussing'/'scum attacking town'/'town attacking town' etc

• I believe the term is WIFOM.
  
• This is a lie - a blatant one. I didn't "just come guning" for anyone. You're part of the game, I pointed you out as a defective unit. You need to produce content.
  
• This is another lie. If you play the game correctly, there should be no question whether you're town or not. It's people that vote for bullshit reasons and hide in the shadows that are usually scum. What we're doing now is figuring out which of you are scum and which of you are just bad players.
  
• The competent response(s) to your x-y foolishness can be found in the wiki under, as you've already stated, WIFOM, Bussing, and Distancing. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be a game. Good job.

---

• Once again, I find myself apologizing for my lack of a computer life. 12-hour shifts and frequent extra-curricular obligations don't make for a lot of free time. Will try to post in here more often but please be understanding.
  
• Also, try not to replace me; I like this game.

[Looker]

dudeu egg.
if he backed off to satisfy the crowd, hes scum.
why would you want to satisfy the crowd.
cos your scared of the crowd

Scum want to satisfy the crowd so they aren't as quick to lynch them. AntB decided to fight the crowd rather than satisfy them, so I have a town read.

Jesse, why didn't you vote in your first post?

I don't random vote.

That's fair. I don't like random voting either. It's fine if other people do it. In fact, I'd prefer that others did. It's just not for me, so I can see it if you're in the same mindset.

__________________________

Nacho's "L-1" thing after his L-3 vote gives me a headache. He says he did it intentionally for a reaction, but wouldn't an expected reaction be a premature claim?

__________________________

Broken, nobody ever said anything was "Magic 100% working". It's a suspicion. At the point in the game that we were debating about this (Page 5), which is where I've currently read up to, it's my main suspicion. I fully expect that to change eventually, if not real soon.

I missed Nacho on questions because I made the poor assumption that we had 12 players when I did my "am I missing anyone?".

Also, I don't do the whole RVS thing.

______________

I'm up to Post 126 (for my reference). Will do the rest when I can.

• One: Is he still in the game?
  
• Two: 'Fighting the crowd' and 'That's not how scum normally play' - all that stuff is moot in my book because they can easily change up their style to suit the situation. They have access to the same reads, wikis, tells and previous games that we do.
  
• Three: If you fully expect your suspects to change "real soon", why post any?

And yes, I know I'll be questioned about jumping on the popular wagon, and trying to score town points should nacho flip scum, etc. Thats my own fault for playing so bad earlier. The only other person that stands out to me is Egg, I really dont think there has been anything of value in his posts.

Thinking about how this will make you look suspicious is not a protown frame of mind.

AHA! Found something in Archer's ISO!
TOWN

Colour me confused. Are you saying my statement is not protown thinking, yet it makes you think I am town? Seemingly contradictory statements always set off warning bells for me so I must ask

What would Egg's flip tell you if he flipped scum or town about the rest of the players in the game?

Right now, probably nothing seeing how he has spoken so little. It will be interesting to see what reasons people give if they decide to switch to Egg however, so something may come of that. But I can see why you would rather have me vote for other people then since other people may have links already established and hence the flip provides more info. Besides the seemingly contradictory statement above and the interesting find from lord_hur I have not seen anything that may make me change my vote.

• I personally think Egg is town; his avatar and username aren't ambiguous enough for him to take this site seriously. Not calling you scum or anything, I just think you're barking up the wrong tree.

---

• RE: bella's "careful consideration" - What was it?
  
• RE: farside's meta hunt - The colors were my scumlist and you're being polite with that "emotional" adjective when the real words for it would be 'ignorant', 'narcissistic', and 'obstinately idealistic'. Also, I agree with the distance thing but there's nothing I can really do about that - whatever the Klaxon says goes (aka
  "remain under cover"
  ).

[Looker]

Egg

Archer

Nachomamma8; battousai

lord_hur; brokenscraps; farside22

AntB; bella

andrew94; smashbro_of_the_SSS; DavidParker

• If it's more than one person in a color, it means I'm not sure which one; it doesn't mean all of them. Meaning andrew94 could be scum with bella or AntB, but not sotS or DavidParker, and that one of andrew94, sotS, and DavidParker is scum.
  
• Keep in mind these are my suspicions for future reference because it gets old having to reread everytime I log onto my computer.

[Looker]

• One scum down!
  
• Won't be posting much due to the Super Bowl and general 12-hr shifts but I
  am
  still actively reading and will have something of substance within the next 48 hours. I will say now, however, that I can understand lord_hur's line of thought.
  
• See ya soon!

[Looker]

• Guess we're waiting for sotS's next post. Hope he posts by the time I get off work.

[Looker]

• In response to Egg asking if he should claim his target, I say yes, especially if it is one of the following people: smashbro_of_the_SSS, AntB, or Archer. (I would throw you in there but obviously you didn't jail yourself so there's no need no matter how town you appear to me.)
  
• If it's anyone else then I don't know.
  
• VOTE: andrew94

[Looker]

• Prod smashbro_of_the_SSS

[Looker]

• sotS, putting aside that you claim you forgot the deadline and didn't post because you didn't want to look scummy or be questioned, do you believe that posting now will solidify you as scum? If this is why you're not posting, it shouldn't be, because posting will only help your case. I for one do not think you are scum and would like to hear your justification for your actions.
  
• AntB, when you say that you have more but need to build, are you bringing more evidence against andrew94 or do you have other suspects as well?
  
• Archer, when you say that you're waiting for AntB and sotS to make an appearance, is it because you believe either or both to be scum?
  
• Egg, claim your night action and justification for your choice.

---

• If there are any questions for me, please ask them - I'd like to think that I'm still a part of this game.

[Looker]

• No matter what, I'd still like his point of view - justification.

[Looker]

• AntB's vote for andrew is off-putting. So is the lack of built case you proposed you'd bring.
  
• Andrew commenting on my "not good ness", while humorous, is understandable, seeing as my avatar is a warmongering Nazi cyborg. If that's not the "not good ness" you were referring to, then I don't know what you mean.
  
• Bella's response to andrew's answer is also off-putting...off-putting, exaggerated, and harsh. Her exploitation of the WIFOM induced by Nachomamma's final rundown is also off-putting...off-putting, opportunistic, and scummy. UNVOTE: VOTE: Bella

[Looker]

sorry, missed it. and yeah, it was within the day of the lynch, right before i went to bed. I really can't say anything other than i forgot. I know it's a horrible excuse, but that's really what happened. Nothing really else to say about it.

• This I believe. Coupled with your mention of you being in college, I can see how an online typing game with strangers could drop down the priority list.
  
• I like you noticing Bella's not taking a stance when she first replaced in and was asked for suspicions.
  
• And I like you questioning my suspicions when I no longer expressed them of you. Put that with how easily and with no opposition everyone jumped on you for not posting and I could see scum gettin' a free ride for today.

---

• RE:farside calling me out for weak reasoning:
  • When you say "everything going on D1", that's really generic and ambiguous. Is there something specific you're referring to?
  • I think jumping right in using WIFOM induced by Nacho's scumlist is scummy. "Nacho said X was scum and Y was town and then scum killed him so he must be right." Seems like an easy setup.
• RE:farside's questioning and general dislike of me:
  • Andrew's on the backburner, but I'd still say he's scum sooner than not simply because I have no reason to think otherwise.
  • I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I don't even remember reading what wasn't directly addressed to me.
  • I think the sotS wagon is too convenient - and irrationally so - for him to be scum. I can't see why no one even
    suggested
    that sotS just might not care or was only checking in because he was bored. I do this from time to time.
  • AntB didn't suggest we lynch someone just because last night's NK called them scum. Bella did.
• RE:brokenscrap's weak attempt at ridicule
  • Leave insinuated insults to the professionals. Also, see above.
• RE:Egg's refusal to claim his night action
  • If you had no intention of claiming in the first place, why ask everybody? I'm on the fence about you.

[Looker]

farside I'm trying to stand back a little so that I dont manufacture reasons like that game. Made me completely lose sight of actual scum and being so loud and attacking made things way too easy for scum. Well thats the lesson I learned at least. I find your case a bit reaching - making a meta call based on a single previous game.

Noticed AntB still hasnt made much of an appearance, but has been active in several other games. Why are you not more active in a game that currently has you as tied for most scummy?

• Seconded.

Alrighty, first off

vote: antb

Don't particularly like antb's case on andrew, seems like he's trying to pick on a weaker target, by voting andrew for playing pretty much the way he always does. Granted I usually don't like andrew's style either, but in my opinion andrew pressured Batt too much to be scum. andrew was on him right from the start. I don't see a scumbuddy bussing someone who replaced in that much.

antb, again, hasn't said pretty much anything to Batt when he was acting scummy. Interestingly enough, antb asked about the deadline policy, whether it would be a no-lynch or a majority lynch, and then doesn't come on to vote Batt after the claim. ( kettle black, I know. point still stands. )

• Kettle black, you're right. UNVOTE: VOTE: smashbro_of_the_SSS

---

• farside
  • Not everything is relevant to me; some things I leave for only the involved parties until it becomes relevant to me.
    
  • I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were WIFOMing anything; I was asserting that Bella was.
    
  • Either way, I wasted a vote yesterday. If it's going to be sotS against AntB; I'd rather lynch sotS.
• Btw, V/LA for the next 2 days.

[Looker]

@AntB - spam attack that allowed you to post in several other games but not this one? Bit strange to say the least

@looker - you're on the fence wrt Egg? Sure, he may be a rather useless townie due to lack of, well, everything, but he did out scum when batt false RC'd. So how can you be unsure of him? Surely if Egg is lying then after the batt lynch the real real jailkeeper would've come forward so that we could likely lynch another scum?

• You're absolutely right; I didn't think of that. Thanks.

Archer obviously buss'd as a last ditch effort to look town when Batt was going to be lynched. No mentions until the wagon had already formed, followed by a "review" of the wagons (which we never saw the results of), and a vote without any real explanation.

Looker to/about Jesse/Batt:
A lot. Forget Looker was on my likely buddy list.

Unvote, Vote Archer

He's obvBattbuddy and we'll find the last scum in Smashbro/Broken/Farside/Bella/Andrew for sure. I'd bet my cat if I had one. I'm allergic to cats, so I'd probably want to lose that bet. I'd bet something valuable though.

• That sucks; I thought Archer was town, so much so that I used his towniness to vouch for a town read of you.

---

• Starting to concur with farside's hint, if not only due to hypocrisy being a big scumtell to me.

[Looker]

Just because you have a small sample size doesn't invalidate the data. In this case, the fact that you've played a better game demonstrates that you're capable of playing in a more productive manner and thus you lose the newbish excuse for your play thusfar.

This really made me lol. First off, its the conclusion that may or may not get invalidated, not the data. And with a small sample size, zero accurate conclusions can be made. To claim otherwise is silly. I also do not recall using the newb excuse, so why have you brought it up?

@AntB - you have played very differently when compared to D1. D1 you were not afraid of coming out all guns blazing, D2 you seem to be happy coasting along despite all the votes. However, RL does indeed get in the way sometimes. I'm 50/50 on whether this is truly the case in this instance.

I want to remind people in case AntBscum tries to fake claim what he said earlier in the game.

I will happily die (and even self hammer) if my flip will provide sufficient information, and even as scum if I feel it will throw the trail off my scumbuddies. However, my death now will provide nothing but a lot of "meh!"

@farside - why the reminder of that post? Plus its taken out of context imo. The way I read it it serves as a reason for you to push the AntB lynch no matter what AntB says from now on. What were your intentions with it?

lord_hur - I dont quite get how you got to those two possibilities you listed (since I drew a much different conclusion). Please explain?

• I think Bella, though comically snippy and reliably sardonic, isn't actually reading the thread and is relying on general common sense to make points.
  
• AntB's just trying not to die.
  
• I read farside's post as her hammering the nail into AntB's coffin - pretty much a checkmate.

---

• Have to say that Bella's spiel was nothing less than expected.
  • You insulted as opposed to refuted.
• Me popping up in AntB's list of suspects alongside sotS was kind of surprising, though, seeing as before now when I kept asking him about his suspicions, he kept dodging and neglecting to actually list any.
  
• Other than that, I just don't like the general jarring of changes when we're so close to a lynch, ie brokenscraps calling me confirmed town and lord_hur making a stretch of a case against farside.
  • I don't think it's a warning, I just think farside's trying to ensure AntB is lynched today.
• UNVOTE: VOTE: lord_hur

[Looker]

Lord_hur - your rephrasing helped me see what you are getting at and I think they are possibilities. My point was that farside is trying to corner AntB leaving him with no way out. From the original post I can see no town friendly way to explain it.

farside - Both ways have their pros and cons and I would've gone a different route and so I still dont like what you did, but I do understand now why you reminded us all of that little piece.

looker - the vote on lord_hur is for...? I think lord_hur was justified at that stage switching his vote. Your vote seems out of the blue

• Neither of hur's assertions seemed valid to me.
  • farside wanting to ensure her top suspect is lynched no matter what isn't indicative of her being scum or AntB being town; it's indicative of her persistence and determination
  • Her posted reminder can in no way help him with a surviving fake claim because all she's doing is making sure we lynch him no matter what he claims. So, if anything, she's saying "Don't waste time trying to concoct a fake claim because we're just going to lynch you anyway", which is polite, not necessarily scummy.

---

• RE:lord_hur's speculation
  • The numbers kind of confused me so I'm just going to go by assertion.
    • I'm not upset, it's just that your allegations appeared to come from nowhere and I saw no reason why you made them, thusly making me suspicious. ("Do
      you
      think/know AntB to be town?" "Are you trying to set up a farside lynch/mislynch for tomorrow?" etc.)
    • Regardless of me wanting AntB dead or not, my voting for him would be a hammer and would end the day; I wasn't trying to rush anybody.
    • Being on wagons doesn't bother me, I'd just rather they be on people I think are scum. Voting just to get a majority doesn't interest me. (
      ESPECIALLY
      THIS FAR AWAY FROM DEADLINE, DUDE!!)
• RE:andrew's 2 cents
  • If I wanted a new wagon against AntB, wouldn't I have
    agreed
    with lord_hur and just voted farside?

[Looker]

I'm sorry guys, but I can't put time into this game. Was trying to hold on and hope i would have more time to post, but apparently not.

mod, replace me

as for any final thoughts, I still think antb is scum, and im thinking town for bella and davidparker. there is a grey area for pretty much everyone else. looker's vote back to me looked weird to me though, considering that he recently said he thought i was townie (for pretty bad reasons I might add. the fact that my lack of activity can be accounted for?)

• Wrong. I disliked how conveniently and with so much ease everyone jumped on your wagon despite your absence being nothing more than school life and the fact that no one brought that up.

@AntB - spam attack that allowed you to post in several other games but not this one? Bit strange to say the least

@looker - you're on the fence wrt Egg? Sure, he may be a rather useless townie due to lack of, well, everything, but he did out scum when batt false RC'd. So how can you be unsure of him? Surely if Egg is lying then after the batt lynch the real real jailkeeper would've come forward so that we could likely lynch another scum?

• You're absolutely right; I didn't think of that. Thanks.

This pretty much confirms you as town to me. I find it hard to see scum thinking they could get away with pushing doubt on a JK claim after that claim lead to their buddy getting lynched.

• Where are you?
  
• UNVOTE: VOTE: brokenscraps

---

• RE:lord_hur...again
  • I didn't say "making sure someone is lynched no matter what" was townish; I said it was moreso determined and persistant than scummy.
  • You say "And?" as if you read nothing of what I posted but expect me to eyeball you every step of the way. I didn't care what you posted about Battousai because it wasn't directed at me, unlike the reasons I posted at/to you regarding why I found your move suspicious. ITT paranoid bullshit is bullshit.

[Looker]

• brokenscraps' question about bandwagons
  • I do notice that I tend to move my vote around alot, regardless of bandwagon and regardless of deadline. Most of the time, I'll only settle on a vote for majority when we run the risk of a no lynch.
• lord_hur's case against me
  • It's feasible to say that people who are busy (not saying that this isn't a fun game because it is) aren't always so honed into what isn't directed at them as well.
  • I don't recall asserting that you were interfering with a lynch; I simply saw no motivation for you to switch up so close to a lynch without reasonable grounds to do so. I suspected you were staging farside's lynch for tomorrow and questioned why.
  • You stating that I look worse as town, though accurate, doesn't advance your case; it somewhat justifies my actions here, not to say that I'm trying to play crappy because I don't think I am other than that gigantic (work-related) absence I just took.
  • Don't know if I got around to all of your points, but if you have anymore assertions, send'em at me.
• farside's questions
  • I'd have to answer with 'attention span' for your first question, as much as that sucks. I play as a method of stress relief and to forget where I am but sometimes I'm still frustrated and overlook things.
  • Can't answer your second question right now because I have to reread SotS and figure out who replaced him. I have to reread alot to be honest, like whatever lord_hur posted that made me vote for him.
  • Bottom Line: I have to reread to validate your assertions and answer your questions.
• magua's thoughts
  • I wouldn't say I was trying to find a bandwagon because we had plenty of those and I didn't jump on them, even when one of them was at L-2/L-1.
  • Also, sometimes I vote people just to see who has no qualms with lynching them, not necessarily because I'm trying to.

---

• Sorry for the absence but, like I told the Mod, my workload has increased tremendously. I'm trying to juggle that with playing this game, wish I could just do the latter but duty calls.

[Looker]

• UNVOTE: VOTE: Egg

[Looker]

• I understand magua saying he'll lynch me tomorrow (today), but in all honesty, I was simply trying to avoid being NK'd. That and being replaced. So, with that said, I'd like to hear all attacks and arguments against me so that I can at least address them while I have the time.
  
• Noticed lord_hur expressing interest in my lynch and was going to inquire about his different reasons but he's dead. So, once again, send me all your accusations/observations/questions and concerns.
  
• I couldn't draw a conclusion from Bella's color-coded summary.
  
• AntB's point is valid.

[Looker]

• Magua's vote
  • Your assertion that I was trying to find bandwagons is incorrect, as I've stated before.
  • I also play according to the knowledge that I have. If I don't know that X is scum, then why would I assert that they are?
  • Also, if you were so intrigued by my suspicions, why didn't you ask about them
    before
    the end of D2?
    Before
    the mislynch?
• Archer's point is valid: I knew that Egg was the jailkeeper.
  
• Magua's reasons
  • Scum want to look town.
  • If you'd asked me at the time, I would've given you one.
  • Third point is moot.
  • You've seen me go "lolz"...?
• Bella's point is a good one. If, at any point, my playstyle becomes too haphazard or unreliable to keep me around, I'd much prefer you replaced me than lynched me due to not being available. I like this game, but not that much, as in so much that I'd drag everyone down into a spiral of craptitude because I despise rejection.

[Looker]

• Magua
  • Yes. You sound surprised.
  • At the moment, either Bella, brokenscraps, or Archer. I also find it noteworthy you wrote off my "possible" (personal?) opinion the moment I voted Egg.
• andrew94
  • Yes.

[Looker]

Saying there's no town reason is somewhat exaggerated.

[Looker]

I did.

[Looker]

I personally feel that if I were to have died last night, town would've gotten nothing from my kill, so I voted Egg. This way, I all but secure my spot as tomorrow's lynch and scum don't NK me. Since I pulled this little stunt, I'm trying to throw it into overdrive here so it could at least have been

for

something.

[Looker]

I don't see a compelling reason to vote for anyone at the moment. Especially Looker.

So you're content to wait 'till deadline?

• Was that a serious question?
  • Magua's initial read is off-base as I've mentioned before and irrelevant. Asserting that someone's scum isn't indicative of you being town, especially when you're wrong.
    
  • Magua alluding to players being town is unnecessarily aggressive and off-base as well. Why keep saying that someone is town when you have no proof.
    
  • An attempt to string mislynches is noted in Magua's "Words just fail me. We'll lynch him tomorrow." comment.
    
  • Magua's regurgitated failcase, though properly refuted earlier, is irrelevant. Asking me who I found scummy yesterday has no bearing on my interests today, especially when you mislynched one of the players in question.
    
  • Magua debating pointlessness with his "Do you think Looker-town would vote Egg?" question. What possible wagon could form against a confirmed JK in a competent town.
    
  • Another failcase from Magua. Previously refuted. Half of the points aren't even valid.
    
  • A waste of a response. If you write me off as incompetent, why assume some elaborate scheme behind my voting Egg.
    
  • More of Magua's "predictions" make me fear you know something that the rest of us do not.

---

• Wish I could've thought this through, but my battery's dying. Ciao.

[Looker]

I didn't say that.

What, exactly, do you think is going to happen between now and then? brokenscraps will get replaced, that's about the only thing that I can think of.

I see Looker's #900. I'm also ignoring it for the time being.

• More insight as more people post, unless, of course, you're going to ignore them to.

[Looker]

*too. You get the point.

[Looker]

I didn't say that.

What, exactly, do you think is going to happen between now and then? brokenscraps will get replaced, that's about the only thing that I can think of.

I see Looker's #900. I'm also ignoring it for the time being.

Well, I think you're going to respond to Looker's post, for one.

Why should I bother? Two of my townreads are attacking eachother. Another of my townreads -- that's you -- is active lurking so hard it hurts. Looker's the leading wagon, so I'll just wait until "omg its one day to deadline everyone suddenly actually play" because that seems to be the prevalent strategy here.

• "Why should I bother?"
  • You're right; you're perfectly right. Why hassle when there's no need. (In your eyes) you're not in danger of being lynched and you're procuring another mislynch for your faction. Everything's going fine.
• "Two of my townreads are attacking eachother."
  • Andrew and AntB? You're aware they've been at this for a while, right.
• "Another of my townreads -- that's you -- is active lurking so hard it hurts."
  • Admirable. Borders on buddying but nothing less than expected.
• "Looker's the leading wagon"
  • I have two votes.
• "so I'll just wait until "omg its one day to deadline everyone suddenly actually play" because that seems to be the prevalent strategy here."
  • Is that your call to action? Either way, it won't work. I've already stated if I'm not around enough, feel free to replace me.

[Looker]

Meh.

farside22; magua

Egg; andrew94; AntB

bella; brokenscraps; Archer

no lynch

self-vote

I gotta go to work.

[Looker]

• Archer
  • In reference to you still waiting, is it for a second rebuttal or a regurgitation of the first?

[Looker]

• farside22
  • Just didn't want it to happen.
• Archer
  • Nah, I don't think so.

[Looker]

@Looker: Please explain why or what reason you find Archer, Broken and Bella scummy.
Also I know many players who use gut reads and things they see in the game that they read as town, why are you questioning town reads from Magua and not others like Egg who made such statements?

Asking me who I found scummy yesterday has no bearing on my interests today, especially when you mislynched one of the players in question.

I really don't like this. You didn't respond to the game yesterday it looks scummy when you have no opinion. For example do you think I'm scum based on what was said? Since Consp flipped town and I know I'm town who was scum on the wagon if there was one and why?

"Another of my townreads -- that's you -- is active lurking so hard it hurts."

* Admirable. Borders on buddying but nothing less than expected.

Wait don't you have a scum read on Bella? This is very inconsistent from just a page ago.

Also your reply to my question is not satisfactory. You said you were concerned. You have played enough mafia that if you were town you would have an idea that if you are suspicious to the town the mafia tend to keep you alive. If your scum you have no concern.

• I don't find them scummy; you're reading the list wrong. Also, your second question doesn't make sense - Magua was talking about me.
  
• I do have an opinion about yesterday; you telling me that you're town isn't an argument; and asking me why someone's scum isn't even a real question, it's busywork, Mom.
  
• Also, this "unsatisfactory" shit has got to stop. If I've answered a question, it's answered. If you don't like it, that's what your vote is for. I'm not about to answer the same question five times with seven different responses.
  
• RE:Your analysis of my mafia experience - What are you talking about/gettin' at/why are you saying this?

---

• "That doesn't explain anything. If your behind say hey I'm behind and will try and get a read. Not hey let me vote for the player that is the claimed PR."
  • I wasn't about to read anytime soon and I didn't want to die. It's not that hard to vote Egg.
• "Why would you fear a NK when people suspect you?"
  • It depends on whether or not this question came before I
    made
    them suspect me.
• Your
  vote
  • Nice. What was it for-? Nah, don't tell me, I don't care.

---

• I don't know if I'm going to have time for this game. Be back whenever I can.

[Looker]

@Regan: I disagree with outing the doctor. I don't care about the statistics. Keeping the doctor save as long as possible would be great, however if the JK saves the doctor the JK dies. I know it's 50/50 chance of this happening.

As for scum suspects: Looker, Archer and 3rd suspect would be you. AntB is a far fourth at this point.
Reason:
Looker is coasting, making up crap reasoning, not scum hunting and yes for fun I will throw in his meta.
Archer hasn't made a case, doesn't attempt to make a case and argues that because he was able to make a case in another game that doesn't mean squat here.
Broken: I thought town in the beginning, then he drifted off. He called me scum yesterday then backed off and jumped on the Consp wagon for no reason.
AntB: He just feels off. No case, constant arguing with Andrew. If anything way, way anti-town.

• I agree with not outing the doctor.
  
• As for your reason: Why is this a scum tell when players do this throughout MS?
  • If I'm coasting, ask me questions.
  • If my reasons are crap, refute them.
  • I am.
  • Invalid; I change up every game.

---

• farside22
  • No; there are only two goons left, so everyone not within the first two rows would be clear.
  • No; I don't think you're scum.
• farside22
  • There's no legitimate reason for a concern; I just didn't want it to happen.

---

andrew94; AntB

magua; Egg

bella; Regfan; Archer

farside22

• One of the first two because they've done nothing but vote for each other the whole game.
  
• One of the second because I don't (fully) believe Egg's claim and Magua strikes me as mislynch-happy.
  
• Third tier is neutral.
  
• farside22 I believe to be town.

[Looker]

Are you asking me for links or saying you've provided them?

[Looker]

Because I'm of the opinion that what you're putting down to scumminess is more due to carelessness and a lack of attention being paid to the game. Particularly the Egg vote, I just don't consider it likely that Lookerscum would make that vote whilst employing a lurkerscum strategy (which is what he's done if he's scum) because it'd draw unnecessary attention to him.

• I'm paying attention to the game.

---

• Bella's point
  • I guess it wouldn't be smart to try to find the other scum while simultaneously jailkeeping Egg every night, then. O well, apologies for my stupidity and negligence.

I'm going to be brutally honest, take from it what you will, I can't tell if you're mafia, playing horribly or just plain trolling Magua. Highly tempted to give you an ultimatium of if you have 2 days to vote farside or convince me of an alternate lynch otherwise I change to you.

I'll save you the waiting two days.

This is me not voting Farside.

Go.

• You forgot the alternate lynch part.

[Looker]

I'll vote when I'm damn well ready to vote.

Here here.

---

• Bella
  • What I was thinking: JK Egg until we get a no-kill, then ask Egg who he JK'd. Whomever he says is town, the real JK counterclaims their JK of Egg, and we discern scum amongst the remaining players. Now of course this won't work not but that's what I was thinking. (Feel free to shut me down with "Well that wouldn't have worked
    anyway
    because of x, y, and z." I know you're good for it.)

[Looker]

*now. This won't work

now

.

[Looker]

In that scenario, Eggscum and his partner would know that there is a JK out there who can block kills and knows Egg is scum. Thus, the partner will be submitting all the kills. The only change of a kill not going through would be through a Doc protect. It's just a bad, bad plan that only matters after several night phases that would be better spent finding a single scum who has no partner on account of Egg being dead.

• Or if the JK has been jailing everyone except Egg for the very reason you stated, in which case there'd be two pretty much confirmed town already.
• I gotta go to work. Be back whenever. Try not to replace me.

[Looker]

Aside from the fact that I'm insulted you'd think I'd be that sloppy, there's absolutely no justification for that interpretation of it when you take even the slightest look at how the ConSpiracy wagon went and how I was nowhere near the damn thing, which you pointed out yourself. How could I,. as scum, have considered myself as playing any part in getting ConSpiracy lynched? I did not vote for him. I did not advance any sort of case against him. I was on his side over his farside case and I raised the possibility of lynching someone other than him at the end of the day. I did nothing that could in any way be construed as helping that lynch go ahead.

Just... pay attention, dammit.

• I'm guessing that's what all those quoted votecounts were supposed to show?

@Egg: If you believe Archer is now town why do you believe Regfan is scum? I expect better from you at this point.
@Looker/Bella: This debate is pointless. I can't believe no one is voting for Looker for his wishy washy, what if Egg isn't JK when any town worth their salt (WHICH EGG FUCKING DID WHEN BATT FAKE CLAIMED THE ROLE DAY ONE) would counter claim.

I swear Magua do me a favor, just vote me and put me out of this hell hole of a game. If nothing else your doing me a major favor and Regfan is right there is a great case against me. I put myself in a hole this game that it will always make me look suspicious. I already claimed VT, scum will keep me alive because of people's suspicion. And finally I want to see Regan have egg on his face.

• Or you could just ask for a replacement.
  
• "God I look forward to this game being over."
  • Yeah, maybe you should request a replacement.

---

• Either way, I still don't trust Egg, and trying to go above and beyond in a game isn't all that stupid, what with it being a game and all. Whatever.

[Looker]

Looker: I would not put my worst enemy threw this headache. I'm not going to replace because that doesn't change reads from how I behaved.
Also not trusting a claimed JK in an open game that has JK as a town role is so beyond words that I can't say a nice thing.

• Fine; I'll go back and reread but I doubt I'll see things differently.

[Looker]

Whoa, didn't expect topic to be back up. I'll come back after work but give me some time, there's a sandstorm in the process. Also, I have to agree with Egg in regards to claiming JKs. Back in a bit with some content.

[Looker]

Andrew, what percentage of your games have you seen a scum bus all of their buddies and never be on a mislynch? This is a serious question.

• Doesn't seem that rare.

---

• Noticed a string of random votes while going through your ISO and just wanted you to know how difficult it is to utilize you as confirmed town when we never know what you're thinking. I'm still neutral when it comes to you, by the way.
  
• Also, your point system doesn't take into consideration bussing and general WIFOM and I feel that if andrew94 is scum then AntB is town and vice versa. I can't see them being both town or both remaining scum.

[Looker]

Both AntB and Regfan's slot have perfect pro-scum voting records. I am of the opinion that we should really be deciding which of these two is scum right now, because I very much doubt that both of them are town.

• I'm leaning Regfan right now, but for more than just your votecount analysis.

Magua, bus your scumbuddy. AntB is clearly being lynched today.

Prefer Regfan lynch to AntB lynch.

UNVOTE: Looker
VOTE: Regfan

• I agree with this sentiment, though I wish you'd stop throwing out baseless votes, especially when it only takes a few to lynch now.

Vote: AntB. That's L-1, we're not having a lynch until Magua explains his reads in greater depth and a claim occurs

• Callin' bullshit. Don't like how you're pushin' him to L-1 so early in the day. This is strike two for you since the bullshit you tried to pull on Magua earlier on in the game.

[Looker]

VOTE: Regfan

[Looker]

• Magua
  • Don't know what to think about you not liking my voting for Regfan all of a sudden despite Regfan being nowhere near a lynch and having placed AntB at L-1. I hope your forthcoming rationale is worthwhile.
• Bella
  • We have a votecount.

[Looker]

Magua - I have a question for you: Realistically, what pairings or mafia teams can you see occuring right now and which do you see as impossible/highly unlikely.?

So I sat down and worked on this.

My initial reaction upon seeing Archer dead was that it's Regfan/Looker.

Scum bussing at this point is suicide, which is why I don't like Looker's Regfan vote.

So who do we have?

Egg: Clear
andrew94: Town. If andrew is scum, then he wins, because I'm not finding any situation where I'm voting for him that doesn't include him saying "trolololol im scum".

So of those who remain:

I really, really, really, really with every bone of my body want it to be Looker + someone. Like I said, I started this day thinking it was Looker + Regfan. But reading back on it, I'm beginning to entertain the notion that it's Looker + Bella. I had a strong townread on Bella D2, but since then the lurk factor has gone into overdrive, the no-vote-no-talk-vote-just-before-deadline factor has gone into overdrive, and Bella keeps pushing this VCA that seems both IIoA and retarded at the same time. If the analysis is that people who have been on more town wagons are scummier, you've got the problem with Egg being there. But that doesn't get mentioned. It's just presenting information and letting people make their own decisions instead of providing her own input.

Had to get that out of my system.

Anyways, of the pairs:

Looker + Regfan: Yes. Only sticking point here is Looker's Regfan vote.
Looker + Bella: Oh my god oh my god yes. Bella completely ignores Looker on any and all levels.
Looker + AntB: More likely now than Looker + Regfan. Looked back through AntB's ISO, and his placing of Looker is always second place -- "Looker would be ok, but I'd really prefer andrew94/farside22/etc". Not the complete blind spot that Bella seems to have for Looker though.

Regfan + Bella: Meh. Possible but unlikely. Bella does open with "We should lynch AntB or Regfan," but then doesn't do anything with it, neither agreeing with nor opposing the AntB wagon, so it's hard to tell. If this were the case, I would expect that Bella would've hammered on AntB already once Looker voted Regfan, rather than take the chance that Egg or andrew would switch over and make it a real possibility, but instead Bella posts the facepalm pic. So, yeah.
Regfan + AntB: No. Suicide bus, etc.

Bella + AntB: No. Would expect Bella to have voted Regfan by this point.

So if AntB is scum, the only person I can see him as being scum with is Looker.

• Andrew and AntB are both neutral to me at this point so you calling them town for no reason won't cut it in my book.
  
• You wanting "with every bone in your body" for me to be scum won't cut it as sufficient evidence, either, nor does it preclude
  you
  from being scum, although I do agree with your opinion of Bella's posted votecounts.
  
• Your pairs:
  • I was going to entertain your suspicion of me being scum with refutations but then I just got tired and said fuck it. So, instead, I'm going to offer my input.
    • I don't think Bella and Regfan are scum together nor could I entertain the thought of Andrew and AntB being scum together. I also had it in my mind that you were town. Due to this, I find only the following pairs likely:
      • Regfan+Andrew94
      • Regfan+AntB
      • Bella+Andrew94
      • Bella+AntB
      • And, in the off chance I was correct about Egg:
        • Egg+Andrew94
        • Egg+AntB

---

• Also, I disagree with you asserting that AntB is dumb enough for you to assume he's town due to dumbtelling but too smart to pass up claiming doc when pressured. If he's dumb enough for dumbtelling, then he's capable of claiming VT as opposed to doc as scum.

[Looker]

chances are the person you jk'ed last night = scum.
so we can put that person higher up the suspect list. (but yet not lynch him due to mafia wifoming)

• Or they could be scum's target.

---

• Just wanted to point out a variation of Egg-doubt so I didn't seem totally crazy. In light of this find, I
  am
  dropping the pursuit, though.
  
• Additionally, something that has me confused is what happens when both JK and Doc target each other. Whose action comes first?
  
• Something I noticed as well would be Regfan's "let's kill useless town" comment.
  
• But, with all that said, if we're not lynching Bella today then I'd rather just go for a No Lynch. Apologies for the brevity but I'm on the clock.

[Looker]

That you can't protect. You've only got a 20% chance of hitting him so could you just tell us

one

of your targets? I don't know if it matters which day yet.

[Looker]

Then I guess No Lynch it is.
UNVOTE: VOTE: No Lynch

[Looker]

I won't be around for a while.

V/LA

[Looker]

Give me time to get caught up and I'll be back in as soon as I can. Shouldn't take longer than a day or two.

[Looker]

Appreciate your analysis, Egg, and I'm going over what we've got, but I doubt I'll be placing a vote anytime soon. I'd appreciate if everyone else could do the same.

[Looker]

• <---Can appreciate the humor in Bella voting directly after the post in which I beseech people not to vote.
  
• @Magua: Dying sucks as much as VT as Doc.

[Looker]

I feel that, by voting Regfan, you're dismissing Magua as town. We've yet to conclude why there was no kill on Night 4.

[Looker]

Me too.

Looker, were you the real JK?

So what's this all about?

MOD: Can you post roles and night actions?

[Looker]

I worked with what I had. I wasn't around alot and I still won.

[Looker]

Sorry for the double-post, but I forgot to mention that you posted, died, and lost.

[Looker]

Me too.

Looker, were you the real JK?

So what's this all about?

MOD: Can you post roles and night actions?

Egg, were you seriously not the real jailkeeper?

[Looker]

Looker voting confirmed town then avoiding a partner hungry for the bus was pretty badass

I actually thought that was going to be suicide.