The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

i really didn't want unvote there

but if I can't lynch obv scum FES i'm lynching obvscum yoscayke ANY DAY OF THE WEEK

[Final Destination]

LOL

"FD posts wall of stuff"

YosResponse:
"You lurk like hell then post when people vote you"


L
O
L

[Final Destination]

If I had free reign I'd be posting every damn day. As it stands I signed up as ahydra so I usually wait for AGM and we make a joint post.

He's disappeared, so I post.

THIS HAS BEEN THE ACTUAL PATTERN

Me posting when I'm tired of our hydra's lurkin and waiting for AGM as our schedules don't mesh well.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

LOL

"FD posts wall of stuff"

YosResponse:
"You lurk like hell then post when people vote you"


L
O
L

Did you expect me to believe a wild, rambling theory that is entirely dependent upon me being scum?

Or, let me put it another way:

Assuming that I'm town, is there any POSSIBLE way for you to be town this game? If so, what it is?

I don't see it at this point.

[TheButtonmen]

Vote Count:

YosFlavouredCayke (3): Unicorn, Final Destination. DaSpot
Final Destination (3): Lord Fonzi, FES, YosFlavouredCayke
Frogito Ergo Sum (1):, Profane Confusion
Unicorn (1): Balam
Balam (1): Copper

Not Voting:

With nine alive it's five to lynch.

Deadline is May 1st @ 19:00 EST

[Profane Confusion]

Oh Daspot. Daspot Daspot Daspot. Having good logic does not always mean a player is town.

I agree with LF's 381 since I can't point to anything specifically pro-town that Copper has done all game either. So I'm concerned with how people are just ticking them off without really looking into them.

For example, Copper, I don't really get your vote and case. It seems to amount to "Balam has been shady around FES wagons. Therefore Balam is either scum with FES or Balam is scum while FES is town and they're waiting for the FES flip to unleash some fury." The thing that puzzles me is I always got the impression that you thought FES was scum, so I don't get why you'd now choose to vote off-wagon for this kind of reason. Break it down for me?

Are you reading our posts at all?

Yeah.

We don't see anything particularly pro-town in Gummybear's L-1 posting. Do elaborate. Furthermore, we'd like a response to our last question on this subject: wouldn't a failure to self-hammer on their part looked damning?

In response to part 1, see this post and this post both made by me.

As for the second part, I don't really know. People who genuinely thought Gummy looked like scum would have probably not listened to their excuses for not self-hammering, but I still don't think it'd be as cut and dry as them getting insta-lynched the next Day.

The whole "I want a claim" thing was me thinking most others would easily see FES as scum too especially when they started racking up the votes from the get-go.

They got lots of votes, thus they must be scum?

That's not what I was saying there, but I could see how you might have read it that way. I was saying that at D3's start, the momentum was going in your direction, and I thought whoever hadn't checked into the thread by the time I voted you would be voicing some suspicion of you too. So it seemed appropriate to me to ask for a claim.

- Incog

[Profane Confusion]

<<<< This is also an important post to read >>>>

Unicorns: I know that it's happened before. That's why I said I don't think it's very probable. You've succeeded at pointing out a single game in the 1000s of games in which it HASN'T happened before. Congrats.

-~-~-~-~-~

FD points out some interesting stuff in his 990. In order for FES to be scum there'd had to have been a bunch of people bussing/distancing from them because the sheer level of FES hate has been extremely high. Looking back, I think Yos might be the only hydra who hasn't voted them all game. Sadly, that's kinda creepy. I won't go as far as Fate has to go ahead and call FES town but it is something that makes you think a little.

FES, what do you think of FD's 990?

I would say that I was very suspicious of the slot you replaced into. Also, I was suspicious of Beaver being scum with either FD or with Spot, and that your behavior so far has been fairly consistent with either one of those possibilities.

I might have missed this but can you point out the posts where you mention that you were suspicious of Beaver being scum with FD or Spot?

[Profane Confusion]

- Incogkeepsforgettingo

[YosFlavouredCayke]

I would say that I was very suspicious of the slot you replaced into. Also, I was suspicious of Beaver being scum with either FD or with Spot, and that your behavior so far has been fairly consistent with either one of those possibilities.

I might have missed this but can you point out the posts where you mention that you were suspicious of Beaver being scum with FD or Spot?

I'm not sure if I mentioned the possible Beaver/FD link specifically, but I did point out how bad Beaver's defense of FD on day 1 was (he defended fate by calling my vote for him a "chainsaw" defense of Ether). At the time, I was thinking about them as possible partners.

I did spend quite a bit of time talking about a possible Spot/Beaver link during day 2, based primarally on Spot's defense of Beaver. For example:

That being said, YossarianFlavouredCayke's idea that daSpot is scumbuddies with SVT is similarly silly.

Have you ever seen a scumbuddy blatantly lie to defend a buddy like that? You don't defend such a failure of a slot with such vehemence unless you're absolutely sure you'll be vindicated by a townflip - say, if you're scum and they're not on your team.

You're missing all the context here.

For a long time, DaSpot was trying to discourage a Beaver lynch in relitivly subtle ways, like attacking me for going after what he called an "easy wagon". I pointed out that he seemed to be trying to prevent a beaver lynch, and first he blew me off; I continued, and he attacked me in order to try to avoid answering my questions, and he only finally admitted that he was defending Beaver when I pinned him to the wall on the subject and didn't let up. That was when he had to invent a justification for his defense of Beaver, and, as you pointed out, it was quite bad. But I don't think DaSpot wanted to be seen to be defending Beaver; it looks like he was hoping to kill the Beaver wagon without anyone noticing he was doing it, and only tried to invent a pro-town justification for his defense of Beaver when he didn't have any other way out.

[Lord Fonzi]

FD: It seems like your argument is predicate upon the alignment of FES. Doesn't that imply that you should be lynching FES? Doesn't this also contradict your apparent belief that FES is town? I should also mention that this hydra was pulled off of the FES wagon by me. I guess I'm confused why you want to lynch FES so much, if you are so sure he's town.

[Profane Confusion]

This place sure is quiet. I know it's Sunday, but I'd have expected at least a post or two.

I see, Yos. You know, I decided to look into these lurker accusations that you've made towards FD since I haven't been here from the start to be able to see any kind of lurking pattern from them. After looking into it, I don't really see what it is you're talking about there. Final Destination has been posting at a rate of at least 1 ppd with maybe 2 or 3 breaks from that due to apparent V/LAs.

Would you agree or disagree that FES has probably been a worse offender of what you're accusing FD of (but yet you have them down as town)? Further, why is FD a lurker but people like Copper and Unicorn Brethren are not?

- Incog

[Profane Confusion]

Equinox, are you around?

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

Oh Daspot. Daspot Daspot Daspot. Having good logic does not always mean a player is town.

I agree with LF's 381 since I can't point to anything specifically pro-town that Copper has done all game either. So I'm concerned with how people are just ticking them off without really looking into them.

For example, Copper, I don't really get your vote and case. It seems to amount to "Balam has been shady around FES wagons. Therefore Balam is either scum with FES or Balam is scum while FES is town and they're waiting for the FES flip to unleash some fury." The thing that puzzles me is I always got the impression that you thought FES was scum, so I don't get why you'd now choose to vote off-wagon for this kind of reason. Break it down for me?

Are you reading our posts at all?

Yeah.

We don't see anything particularly pro-town in Gummybear's L-1 posting. Do elaborate. Furthermore, we'd like a response to our last question on this subject: wouldn't a failure to self-hammer on their part looked damning?

In response to part 1, see this post and this post both made by me.

As for the second part, I don't really know. People who genuinely thought Gummy looked like scum would have probably not listened to their excuses for not self-hammering, but I still don't think it'd be as cut and dry as them getting insta-lynched the next Day.

The whole "I want a claim" thing was me thinking most others would easily see FES as scum too especially when they started racking up the votes from the get-go.

They got lots of votes, thus they must be scum?

That's not what I was saying there, but I could see how you might have read it that way. I was saying that at D3's start, the momentum was going in your direction, and I thought whoever hadn't checked into the thread by the time I voted you would be voicing some suspicion of you too. So it seemed appropriate to me to ask for a claim.

- Incog

[Profane Confusion]

RayFrost would do just fine too (I saw you post in MD). I just wanna talk to you two.

[Profane Confusion]

What was the point of that, FES?

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

Uh. Damn browser.

Mod

, could you delete that?

I can't actually, only list mods can delete posts.

We don't see anything particularly pro-town in Gummybear's L-1 posting. Do elaborate. Furthermore, we'd like a response to our last question on this subject: wouldn't a failure to self-hammer on their part looked damning?

In response to part 1, see this post and this post both made by me.

The first link just has you saying it and the second one just mentions willingness to self-hammer, which was significantly undermined as a town tell by the fact that they already had postponed it once. You yourself said you weren't sure they'd follow through.

As for the second part, I don't really know. People who genuinely thought Gummy looked like scum would have probably not listened to their excuses for not self-hammering, but I still don't think it'd be as cut and dry as them getting insta-lynched the next Day.

Sure, but it's pretty clear that going for the no-lynch is superior for scum, no?

FES, what do you think of FD's 990?

Well, for the most part, it's nothing new. He held a similar position at the end of Day 1 and given the situation he's in, he has ample motive to change tack. FD does make one point we agree with regarding YosCayke's inconsistently suspecting FD. I don't remember any mention of FD as a suspect on Day 2 (and FD must've fallen down to at least #3 on the scum list as evidenced here) but they're right back at it Today.

That said, any town credit FD gets for that point he immediately wastes by trying to spin Ether's "Probably Yosarian, I guess" comment into a scum tell.

P.S. re: lurking, I think FD and I have both suffered activitywise from wanting to synch up with our partners. Independent heads are more than twice as active as one combo.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

In and out. What's up?

[Balam]

(RayFrost)

In and out. What's chillin'?

[Profane Confusion]

With respect to going for the no-lynch being superior for scum, I had said before to Yos that I really don't think it is. I might be alone on this, but during the times I've been scum, I've MUCH rather have seen a mislynch go through than seen a no lynch happen. No lynches just make the game a longer one for scum, and it becomes incredibly more difficult to keep up an act when you're going for longer and longer time periods. I guess that's also why I've found it much more difficult to be scum in Large Games and partly the reason why I avoid Larges like the plague. Idk if a you-scum would be the same way; I guess I'd have to look into the meta.

I hadn't noticed that FD held a similar position at the end of Day 1; thanks for pointing that out. I still think there's very little scum motivation for FD to point out something like that right now unless your hydra and FD are scum together. I also don't completely see why Fate loses town cred for pointing out that Ether line; it's something that's made me think a little too because I know Ether's usually pretty damn good at getting reads off of people she's played with more than once. If she was hesitating about Yos then that's probably not that good of a sign for Yos.

P.S. re: lurking, I think FD and I have both suffered activitywise from wanting to synch up with our partners. Independent heads are more than twice as active as one combo.

Agreed. This is why smargaret and I have kinda independently agreed to just post when we want to w/o necessarily talking it over first. I just wanna know why Yos has some sort of a double standard going on though. It seems unnatural.

- Incog

[Profane Confusion]

Hey, you two! What's going through your collective minds right now? What are your thoughts here about Mr. Yosarian2?

[Profane Confusion]

In case you're wondering why I wanna talk to you two specifically, it's 'cause I'm finding Equinox kinda hard to read this game. Chatting nice and concisely might ease this up for me a bit.

[Balam]

We're not exactly certain at all about yos2. Mixed feelings about different stuff.

I'm upset that he didn't sing along with me and just ignored me, but I think I can get over it.

Aside from my hurt feelings, we've got issues on who we think the scumteam is, so our read on yos2 is really dependent upon certain flips and other stuff that I'm not sure would be wise to get into at the moment (revealing information about connections may influence scum actions). If forced to say whether I'm leaning one way or another, I'm slightly leaning town due to the fact that I'm not entirely certain about the feasibility of the scumteam(s) that yos2 would be in based upon our collective town / possible scum reads.

[Balam]

That was RayF, by the way.

Why'd you want to talk with me if you're having a hard time reading Equi, Incog?

[Profane Confusion]

Because (AND DON'T TAKE OFFENSE TO THIS) I think Equinox might be better scum than you. So if your slot's scum, it could be easier to get a scum read of you than your Incognito partner.

Why would revealing info about connections influence scum interactions out of curiosity?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Hey, you two! What's going through your collective minds right now? What are your thoughts here about Mr. Yosarian2?

No collective thoughts right now. We're still in disagreement about half of the player list (Final Destination, Frogito Ergo Sum, Lord Fonzi, YosFlavouredCayke). I think our vote is on Unicorn Brethren at the moment; I still support that vote and RayFrost expressed support as of early Saturday morning, so there it stays.

I've been spending all of my time on a different game, so I'm not caught up in this thread at the moment. Not sure what else I can tell you.

As for YosFlavouredCayke, I'm torn because the stuff they've done make little sense to me as scum (i.e., NKs). AGar and RayFrost disagree (for the same reason, oddly enough). AGar has been V/LA, so we haven't had the chance to discuss this as a group. What I will say, though, is that RayFrost had made a post specifically for YosFlavouredCayke to respond to, and their lack of acknowledgment (as far as I'm aware)... guh, not sure how to take that, really, but it annoys me because we need that response.

Consider that a call-out.

Preview edit: Hi there, RayFrost. I'm posting this anyway because Incognito misses me.