A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!


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Post Post #2750 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Twilight Sparkle »

Oh, LMP! I have to go, but what do you think of my plan?

Should we promise to give the Stark the victory unless the SK kills someone in the suspect pool tonight?

Or hell, do you want to do it vice-versa? Give the SK the victory unless the
Stark
votes scum?

Please. If I can get every single person in the game to agree to this plan, I would actually self-vote. We have to force the SK (or hell, even a Stark, if that makes everyone happier) to kill from the suspect pool tonight. You don't understand what a huge difference that will make in the long run.
I hate hate HATE that you are trying to tar the Feysal wagon in hindsight. That wagon was super solid, the observations behind it were incredibly good, and I'll stand by that wagon till hell freezes over. Feysal had all the signs of Stark scum. This quote makes me think TS-Stark. Trying to beat us up over the mislynch we made earlier that YOU stayed off of screams scummy to me.
Firstly, do you think Zdenek is Stark or SK?

Secondly, I was on the mislynch. We switched to Feysal at deadline.

Thirdly, why do you like Magua's plan when it guarantees that dana is left for LYLO, and Super!Town Magua is lynched first?

Fourthly, the wagon was far from "super-solid" or "incredibly good," and if you genuinely believe it was, then you are delusional and will never ever learn from your mistakes.

To be honest, it was a pretty mediocre-to-crappy case on a player who was somewhat wishy-washy and cautious, but not blatantly scummy, and that only went through because you tunneled like a blind idiot on him and called everyone who disagreed with you scum, thus pressuring people into going with the crowd and feeling like there was something wrong with them if they had doubts. "All the signs of being Stark" were pretty much that Feysal coincidentally mentioned Starks in passing.

I'm genuinely on the fence with LMP right now--I know he has a reputation for being scary scum, but he looked so town on D2. It all depends on how many Starks there are. But if you're town, I will say that you have played poorly.

You misused your vig kill on the advice of scum, your town-to-scum lists probably had a higher proportion of scum at the top than at the bottom, and you've done jack-shit lately. I have no clue where you're getting the scumtells you've noticed this game, because they seem to have little connection with actual scum alignments.

I am being so harsh because I thought your reaction to Feysal at the end of D2 ("Neener neener, it's all
your
fault") was extremely odious, obnoxious and smug. I personally think that you played more of a part in the Feysal mislynch than Feysal himself did. So the gloating and lack of humility left a horrible taste in my mouth.

I'm really getting sick of dealing with arrogant players who cannot admit when they screw up--and not just in this game, but sitewide. Maybe I'll make an MD rant when this is over.

And yes, I will admit that I will be bitter if I'm lynched before Zdenek, and I don't care if you think that's me taking credit for being right or AtE-ing or whatever. I'm getting sick of being listened to when I'm right and ignored when I'm wrong, but that's another story, and totally irrelevant to whether you
should
lynch me.

I am going to assume for a moment that you are town (because if you are scum, then you've done your job very well). When you tunnel someone like that and it results in a mislynch, don't blame it on the victim. Take a step back and reevaluate. If you want to have a laugh, check my (Mina's) first game on this site, in which I hound a poor townie until his lynch. I've tunneled and been wrong, too. It's much scarier to always doubt yourself and second-guess everything, but it's a much healthier playstyle.

~Mina
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Post Post #2751 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:37 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

LynchMePls wrote:
Shadow wrote:Between Magua and TS, if either of them are not Lannister, I'll be surprised.
So Magua claims the diddin kill and no one counters, but you think he's Lannister? Explain please.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. He's obviously not Stark. He's either Lannister, or he's the SK. The way he held on to the information regarding the Diddin kill, and the way he claimed it scream town more than SK hiding behind his kill. Whereas the way you claimed early and unprovoked to me seems more like nervous SK looking to hide behind a kill. It works either way really, but Magua has played a town game.
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Post Post #2752 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:43 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

Magua (2) - Danakillsu, Benmage
Locke Lamora (3) Zdenek, Magua, Twilight Sparkle
s
Twilight Sparkle (3) Locke Lamora, hasdgfas, LynchMePls

LynchMePls (1) Popsofctown

Not voting (1) Shadow1psc

*10 players remain, 6 to lynch someone.
*Checking if anyone needs a prod
*Deadline here
War has arrived!

PM me for Dead QT access!
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Post Post #2753 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:58 am

Post by LimMePls »

TS wrote:Firstly, do you think Zdenek is Stark or SK?
SK.
TS wrote:Secondly, I was on the mislynch. We switched to Feysal at deadline.

Thirdly, why do you like Magua's plan when it guarantees that dana is left for LYLO, and Super!Town Magua is lynched first?
Last minute switches at deadline to avoid No Lynch hardly count. But fair enough.

Because Magua is on much more people's scum list than dana is (God only knows why). It's not my ideal plan, but it gets the job done.
TS wrote:Oh, LMP! I have to go, but what do you think of my plan?

Should we promise to give the Stark the victory unless the SK kills someone in the suspect pool tonight?
Seems perfectly logical to me. SK needs us for victory if we reach KM. For that matter, so would Starks. So we should make them work for it.
TS wrote:To be honest, it was a pretty mediocre-to-crappy case on a player who was somewhat wishy-washy and cautious, but not blatantly scummy, and that only went through because you tunneled like a blind idiot on him and called everyone who disagreed with you scum, thus pressuring people into going with the crowd and feeling like there was something wrong with them if they had doubts. "All the signs of being Stark" were pretty much that Feysal coincidentally mentioned Starks in passing.
This isn't how I'd characterize the case AT ALL. I most certainly did NOT call everyone who disagreed with me scum. I did pressure people into going along with me, BECAUSE I THOUGHT I WAS LEADING A WAGON ON SCUM. What was I supposed to do?
TS wrote:I'm genuinely on the fence with LMP right now--I know he has a reputation for being scary scum, but he looked so town on D2. It all depends on how many Starks there are. But if you're town, I will say that you have played poorly.
I get this a lot (as you should all to well know). I'm not as good a town player as I am scum. Sorry if I didn't make the choices you would have, but I've been doing all of my actions in what I thought were the town's best interests.
TS wrote:I am going to assume for a moment that you are town (because if you are scum, then you've done your job very well). When you tunnel someone like that and it results in a mislynch, don't blame it on the victim. Take a step back and reevaluate. If you want to have a laugh, check my (Mina's) first game on this site, in which I hound a poor townie until his lynch. I've tunneled and been wrong, too. It's much scarier to always doubt yourself and second-guess everything, but it's a much healthier playstyle.
Look, if it left a "bad taste in your mouth", then so be it. You wanna call it arrogant, fine. But what I was attacking was Feysal's pretty brutal attack on me. The simple fact is that I believed him to be scum, and I pushed hard for his lynch. I do not believe what I did was wrong. In hindsight, clearly he wasn't scum and I made a mistake. I never said I don't own up to my mistakes, that wasn't my intention in responding to Feysal at the end of D2. But I'm not gonna sit there and be lectured by Feysal because he's sore he got mislynched. If I were just being whimsical and pushing his case for laughs, then yes I'd feel his condescension would be well earned, but I don't think anyone can question my sincerity. I unequivocally believed based upon the information we had at the time that Feysal was scum.
Shadow wrote:I'm not sure why this is so hard to comprehend. He's obviously not Stark. He's either Lannister, or he's the SK. The way he held on to the information regarding the Diddin kill, and the way he claimed it scream town more than SK hiding behind his kill. Whereas the way you claimed early and unprovoked to me seems more like nervous SK looking to hide behind a kill. It works either way really, but Magua has played a town game.
My question was mis-stated. I meant "how could you call him Stark"? Dunno why I typed Lannister. I agree 100% that he's Lannister or SK. My claim was NOT unprovoked. I was asking questions surrouding Feysal's talk about the Chesskid kill, and people kept pushing me for why I was asking my questions (I don't remember the question anymore, but whatever). Anyways, the point is, only after like the 5th person was all "why are you asking these questions" did I reveal it. So quit calling it unprovoked. You can say you don't like how I claimed, fine. Call me scum for it, fine. But saying it was unprovoked is disingenuous.
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Post Post #2754 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:01 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

Unprovoked claim as in, no one was really voting you, just wondering what your train of thought was. I don't recall an LMP wagon on d2.
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Post Post #2755 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:02 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

Point being that it screams of pre-emptive defense, early in a day where days are certainly long enough to avoid quick/mis lynches where you would have had plenty of time to claim had you been pressured.
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Post Post #2756 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:03 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

I like posting thoughts in separate posts <_< Really, I just type as I think, final thought; Magua isn't stark. we can be fairly certain that of the n1 deaths, one of you is probably lying about being lannister. LMP may be SK OR Stark, whereas Magua isn't Stark. I find it hard to believe that 4 shots went off, and only two landed.
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Post Post #2757 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:14 am

Post by Locke Lamora »

Hmmm.

Unvote


Shadow, why do you think LMP-SK or LMP-Stark would have claimed the kill at all?
If ya smell what The Locke is cookin'!

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Post Post #2758 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:22 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

Exactly what I said - Nervousness, pre-emptive defense. If people were asking questions, maybe fear of a watcher or tracker. There's plenty of reasons to do it.
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Post Post #2759 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:59 am

Post by Twilight Sparkle »

By the way, a belated EBWOP:
Twilight Sparkle wrote:I'm getting sick of being listened to when I'm right and ignored when I'm wrong"
Um...obviously, substitute "right" and "wrong" in that sentence. :oops:
Locke Lamora wrote:Hmmm.

Unvote
...goddamn it, stop confusing me.

So, um, is...there a reason you're unvoting? You agree with my characterization of your post as a frame case? Did you develop a town read or not-that-scummy read on us?

You're not going to defend yourself after I've called you the SK?

And thanks, LMP. By the way, you prefer my plan to Magua's (in which the Starks kill him tonight or lose to the SK in Whatever-the-Hell-the-Correct-Game-Theory-Terminology-Is)?

Players who will give Stark a guaranteed victory if the SK doesn't try to take out a Stark tonight

Twilight Sparkle
LynchMePls

Players who will give SK a victory unless the Starks kill him

Magua

Herp derp, kill a confirmed townie instead of a suspect, SK, because you're so cool and awesome!

Benmage

Waiting on a response

Locke Lamora
Cow
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Shadow
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Doesn't count because he's obvscum

Zdenek

Of course, if Zdenek feels like claiming, we could offer his team (whatever it is) a better option. Believe it or not, if a non-confirmed townie is going to die tonight
anyway
, it's actually better for your scum faction to be doing the dirty work. Because they have the freedom to choose the death (say, Starks can take out a likely SK suspect, while the SK can take out a likely Stark).

And I'm seriously starting to wonder if Zdenek has two kills a night or something. Maybe I should reread dana from the POV of him being scum.

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Post Post #2760 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:07 am

Post by popsofctown »

Magua, you're town, don't put yourself on a hit list.

I wanna do Magua's doohickey, except on Twilight Sparkle or LMP.

And the other doohickey I'll do that too. I will be a vengeful kingmaker.
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"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2761 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:08 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

VOTE: LMP

Lets kick this off then.
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Post Post #2762 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:08 am

Post by popsofctown »

shadow come vote lmp with me
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2763 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:09 am

Post by popsofctown »

omg epic ninja
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2764 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:22 am

Post by danakillsu »

What's with all these stupid "plans"? We don't really know what we want to do tomorrow until we see today's flip. So lets lynch someone who has a good chance of being Stark (Zdenek, LMP, or Magua) and get on with it. Since this is the one actually picking up steam,
unvote vote: LMP
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Post Post #2765 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:24 am

Post by popsofctown »

Dana it has to do with game theory and kingmakers and stuffs. It's complicated and appropriate today.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2766 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:27 am

Post by Benmage »

Fuckina, today's been fun. I bet the dead qt will be enjoyable, here I come boys.

unvote vote lmp

MOD pm me zdeneks identity in my dead pm please.
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Post Post #2767 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:46 am

Post by Twilight Sparkle »

*sighs*

danakillsu, you are completely missing the point.

You don't need to understand anything behind the logic of the plan, and it only becomes invalidated if we hit the SK today. Just say this:

"If the SK kills someone scummy tonight, then I, danakillsu, promise to let him win if I'm left in a final three with one SK and one Stark. Meanwhile, if the SK kills someone confirmed, then I, danakillsu, promise to let the Starks win instead."

Remember, if the SK fucks us over, it's going to be the people in the suspect pool who will have the choice. The people who most need to agree to this are dana and Locke. Magua can sit off on his own "Fuck you, Starks, I'm going to vote the SK to win no matter what," island as long as he's the only one there, because the Starks can't leave him alive after that.

Thanks, pops. Shadow, can you agree to the plan?

And SK, I really hope you follow through with this. Because I will not enjoy giving a victory to MoI and Zdenek.

Benmage, unvote until I get a confirmation from several players that they will stick to the plan. Zdenek can quickhammer right now.

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Post Post #2768 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:48 am

Post by Magua »

Guys. I hate to be the wet blanket here, but LMP doesn't make much sense as scum.

Doesn't make sense as SK. Hope we can all agree on this one.

Stark. This one's going to be a bit roundabout, and it's going to be setup WIFOM.

Let's pretend that LMP is Stark. He did the chesskid3 kill. First of all, this means that mafia decided to kill chesskid3 over Benmage, hasdgfas, and Locke Lamora, which I'm just not buying.

Secondly, and here's the setup speculation part, I'm 99% sure that MagnaofIllusion jailkept popsofctown N2. pops' friendly neighbor message did not get to Shadow N2. We know that he wasn't roleblocked by town, so that leaves jailkept by Magna, or messed with by an unknown scum PR. It seems obvious to me that there's no way for scum to have a bus driver/redirector, as then they would've just killed Benmage N4 instead of Nexus/Andrius. So I'm going with jailkept by Magna.

That means that Magna, who had lost two partners, didn't choose to protect another partner. Makes sense for Zdenek partner. But for LMP to be Stark, it would mean that he'd have to have some PR that was so valuable that the mafia needed it to go off *even after he claimed a killing role with an SK in the game*.
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Post Post #2769 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:53 am

Post by Locke Lamora »

Ok, I'm still trying to sort this mess out in my head, but I agree to the plan.

Preview edit: got to say I agree with a lot of the above, WIFOM though some of it may be.
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Post Post #2770 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:42 am

Post by LimMePls »

Shadow wrote:Exactly what I said - Nervousness, pre-emptive defense. If people were asking questions, maybe fear of a watcher or tracker. There's plenty of reasons to do it.
Ya, because I have a track record of getting nervous when I'm scum. This is so nonsensical.
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Post Post #2771 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:44 am

Post by LimMePls »

TS wrote:And I'm seriously starting to wonder if Zdenek has two kills a night or something. Maybe I should reread dana from the POV of him being scum.
PLEASE DO!
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Post Post #2772 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:47 am

Post by popsofctown »

Magua wrote:Guys. I hate to be the wet blanket here, but LMP doesn't make much sense as scum.

Doesn't make sense as SK. Hope we can all agree on this one.

Stark. This one's going to be a bit roundabout, and it's going to be setup WIFOM.

Let's pretend that LMP is Stark. He did the chesskid3 kill. First of all, this means that mafia decided to kill chesskid3 over Benmage, hasdgfas, and Locke Lamora, which I'm just not buying.

Secondly, and here's the setup speculation part, I'm 99% sure that MagnaofIllusion jailkept popsofctown N2. pops' friendly neighbor message did not get to Shadow N2. We know that he wasn't roleblocked by town, so that leaves jailkept by Magna, or messed with by an unknown scum PR. It seems obvious to me that there's no way for scum to have a bus driver/redirector, as then they would've just killed Benmage N4 instead of Nexus/Andrius. So I'm going with jailkept by Magna.

That means that Magna, who had lost two partners, didn't choose to protect another partner. Makes sense for Zdenek partner. But for LMP to be Stark, it would mean that he'd have to have some PR that was so valuable that the mafia needed it to go off *even after he claimed a killing role with an SK in the game*.
URGGHHH

unvote, vote Twilight Sparkle
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"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #2773 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:53 am

Post by Shadow1psc »

The simple argument to that wildly speculative meta is that Magna simply didn't think about jailkeeping his team. Setael was still alive, after all. The argument is kinda moot.
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Post Post #2774 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:01 am

Post by Magua »

Shadow1psc wrote:The simple argument to that wildly speculative meta is that Magna simply didn't think about jailkeeping his team.
You're saying that you think:

1) There is a serial killer in the game
2) LMP is Stark
3) LMP claimed a kill D2, making himself a target to the SK
4) Magna didn't think about jailing LMP N2 *and LMP agreed*

Do I have that right?

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