Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Morthas]

Oh hey, Hazard~~~, could you add to the list of things that im asking you for, your reads?

[vezokpiraka]

I'm going with my gut.

Fuck cases. Fuck roles.

unvote
vote morthas

If you don't flip scum I'm going to fly up a wall.

[Morthas]

how about some freaking reasoning, all i've seen you accuse me of is gut.

[vezokpiraka]

The last times we used reasoning we ended up lynching townies.

I'm going with my gut.

[Morthas]

All of our previous ''reasoning'' could have been countered by ''they are just bad at this game''. Hency why i did not partake in the lynches.
Try thinking a little deeper than ''OBVSCUM'' and ''GUT''

[VasudeVa]

Yeah, replacing in was probably a bad idea. I asked Charlie to put me in the replacement list because of the setup, and when he needed me I accepted it on a whim. I skimmed the first 10 pages of the game prior to my replacement, and I thought I could handle it but I think I might have bitten of more than I can chew when I tried doing some real reading.

I'll try again soon, but if I can't I might just ask for replacement. (Being in an on call show band is tough. No real schedule, just random appointments. >.>)

---

I'll give you something for now though.

This game is

probably

based on Rainbow Robot Unicorn Mafia, a game me and Charlie played a year ago. Charlie really enjoyed the setup. Percy reviewed this setup. It kinda fits, although this game is made and flavored according to Charlie's taste(Pun!).

I'll give you guys the bullet points of what I think might have been carried over.
->The Mafia didn't have the usual wincon, they had a "collect the colors of the rainbow" wincon.
->They had to absorb a Townie's colors by poisoning them(ie. NK'd player shows up as poinsoned the next day, dies at the end of the phase.). Not sure if this game had something like that currently, but I think that the absorption thing is inherently here.

When I saw this game start and saw the Sample PM with ingredients + the "the setup may not make sense until the end of the game" warning, I immediately asked to replace in. Both of them have a lot in common to RRUA Mafia. I was expecting to replace an early flaker, but eh. That didn't work. Nostalgia made me accept this game at a whim but ugh, sorry.

Me and mah buddy won RRUA because we lucked out and got all the colors we needed even if the standings were 1Mafia/4Town at endgame. If I were to base a game on RRUA, I'd definitely use that mechanic too. It made the game intensely and satisfyingly swingy, and everyone enjoyed it.

Percy also designed some of the roles in the game to hint Town about the scum's capabilities. For example, LlamaFluff's role hinted that there were Mafia traitors abound(he was a miller that fools both the town cop and the Scum color-cops.). Vi's role hinted that scum had a poison kill(she was a one shot poison doc). etc.

So, I'll ask here:
If anyone has a role that hints anything about scum, it's probably good to get it out there. Be wise though, if you're a JoaT or a doc, then don't claim yet. If you think it's useless right now, don't claim. It's up to your discretion.

Also, there is something you should know about because this fucked us up big time in another game.
Reads are way more important that setup speculation.

Yes, I know I just wrote a massive wall speculating about the setup, but in general: do not trust your scumreads. In Percy's game, we (the scum) won because Town was too clueless and we disseminated loads of bad information across the board. We played horribly and got wagoned D1 but Town listened to us because we did some incredibly unlikely fakeclaims. Information is power in a weird setup but you need to weed the dirt.

...and fuck that took up way too much time. So yeah, some shit to discuss while you wait for my read/replacement.

[Amrun]

Bad people are after our goodies (candy). So maybe to win, scum has to collect one of each of a set of a candy. I don't know what comprises the set, but from VV's post, it seems possible.

[Morthas]

@Amrun: Already proven that town aligned are also after candy.

[Amrun]

Yes, but that's irrelevant to what I was actually saying. Town can do something with candy; scum can do something with candy. We know this.

I'm just saying that in light of VV's insight, perhaps scum's wincon has something to do with candy rather than surviving.

[Hoppster]

@ Morthas: Still for a Vas/Replacement Vas/NS's previous slot lynch?

I'm going to go and colour the vote counts in pretty colours and see what happens.

@ Vas/Whoever replaces Vas

A lot of Day 1 is actually just Twistedspoon spamming WIFOM-loaded posts and it would be a waste of time and effort reading it. You probably need to skim posts around these two points though imo:

• Twistedspoon claims
  
• Hazard claims same role

That's all I can remember of importance from the top of my head that don't revolve around Twistedspoon and his WIFOM.

[ToastyToast]

Hence the colors in the word "imagination" and the role PM. yeah, I already figured that was the case, but

1) Did anyone get targeted by Kalofer
2) I don't think we should assume scum doesn't have candy--they may have to keep something to throw the visitors off (it wouldn't be a game with 3 cops)

[Amrun]

Zyrconium, please tell us if you have been targetted!

[Hoppster]

Spoiler: VCs + GREEN COLOURING WOO

Late RVS

Twistedspoon

(3) - Hoppster, Zyrconium, Hazard with a Glove
Zyrconium (3) -

Stels

, ToastyToast, mb53

Kalofer

(2) - Morthas, crazypianist1116
Amrun (2) - Nobody Special, vezokpiraka

~

After TS Defends

Twistedspoon

(6) - Hoppster, Zyrconium, Hazard with a Glove, Morthas, vezokpiraka,

Kalofer

Zyrconium (3) -

Stels

, ToastyToast, mb53

~

After TS claims

Zyrconium (4) -

Stels

, ToastyToast, mb53,

Twistedspoon

Twistedspoon

(2) - Hoppster, Hazard with a Glove

~

I believe this was the first count after Amrun claimed "bad people want our goodies"

Twistedspoon

(5) - Amrun, Nobody Special, Hazard with a Glove, Hoppster, vezokpiraka
Zyrconium (3) -

Stels

, mb53, ToastyToast
Hazard with a Glove (2) - crazypianist1116, Morthas

~

And 4 days later:

Twistedspoon

(7) - Amrun, Nobody Special, Hazard with a Glove, Hoppster, vezokpiraka, ToastyToast,

Kalofer

Hazard with a Glove (3) - crazypianist1116, Morthas,

Stels

~

Vote Count 16

Hazard With a Glove (3) - Morthas, crazypianist1116,

Stels

Nobody Special (2) - mb53,

Kalofer

Morthas (2) - vezokpiraka, Hazard With a Glove

~

Vote Count 17

Hazard With a Glove (4) - Morthas, crazypianist1116,

Stels

, Nobody Special
Nobody Special (3) - mb53, Zyrconium,

Kalofer

Morthas (2) - vezokpiraka, Hazard With a Glove
Zyrconium (2) - ToastyToast, Amrun

~

Vote Count 22

Stels

(7) - crazypianist1116, ToastyToast, vezokpiraka, Zyrconium, Amrun, Hoppster,

Kalofer

Hazard With a Glove (2) - Morthas, Nobody Special
...
crazypianist1116 (1) -

Stels

NB: I have corrected the last votecount because it's actually incorrect in terms of the order which the final lynch was reached, as Amrun and I both unvoted and then revoted, but remained at our initial ordering in the final vote count.

@ Mod: fix this please? =]

So, umm. I suck at VCA, so I have no idea what that means.

It is interesting how Morthas has been the only person on both of the two counter-wagons for the final lynch, though. Somebody experienced with VCA can tell me if this means Morthas is scum plz?

I'll have a gander at Mastin's MD thread.

[Zyrconium]

I was told nothing of this thievery.

Hazard's case on Hoppster is bull, he didn't really need to choose Hopp(although it'd probably have helped), but Hopp wanted the visitor's on him to disprove the "he has no goodies => scum" logic Kalo stated before Hopp claimed, and that's quite reasonable for town. Also, I really doubt zoo visitors are that important to town, missing 1 day of goodies wouldn't kill them.

Hazard's stating at as random rubs me wrong too, but I'

my vauge attempts at VCA+ town reads(never really done it myself before, so if there's a specific way to do it that's less probable guesswork, tell me) suggest 1 of {crazypianist}+1 of {NS(VV now)/Hazard}+1 of {TT, Hoppster, vezok}

specifically assuming 2 on TS, 1 on Hazard Day1 and 2 on Stels, 1 off, Day 2.... also see cp pushing Hazard and TS at the same time end of day 1, while discounting the possibility of them both being scum.

basically, I think cp is scum, and I totally would guess at VV Hoppster team if one of them flips scum... And Mothras being off both times might mean something if he wasn't off on Hazard each time, know what that means, he thinks Hazard is scum....

[Zyrconium]

EBWOP:

vote crazypianist

again with the missing the little things....

P.S. I think VV's wall of setup speculation makes one thing clear(probably), LyLO is sooner than we think it is.

[Morthas]

I am not sure what you are trying to say... How does being on the counter wagon mean im scum?
And can someone explain me what does that maths mean? Maybe a little too tired to understand but, eh.
I can see crazypianist as scum very likely.

@Hazard: Could you please answer my questions? If not, I'm going to go all Hail Mary on you and push for the lynch, if i get convinced otherwise i would go Hoppster or Crazy

@Hoppster: I am not sure i am reading your question right, buut maybe i'm too naive but i usually tend to try giving the replacement some breathing space before i go for it, unless i had something very solid beforehand, which i did not. So no, not up for it just yet

[Amrun]

I'm feeling sweet about a cp lynch.

But then again, I did for Stels, too.

[Hazard with a Glove]

WTF HAZARD

I SPECIFICALLY ASKED YOU TO TARGET ME

EGEJGOIRJGO

I DIDN'T HIDE MYSELF LAST NIGHT AND YOU PROBABLY COULD HAVE CONFIRMED ME AS TOWN

AND NOW I'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO EACH NIGHT NOW PREVENT THE SCUM KILLING ME

AND YOU'RE LIKE "LOL YOU WERE TRYING TO TRICK ME"

SERIOUSLY, WTF?! >>

I would have tried to wagon him before Stels died, but you all had to go kill him before I got on.

No, Hoppster I did not target you. Hoppster is obviously trying to get all of the Zoo Visitors to use their ability on one person. And if he does the ability he says he does, then it would be a waste anyway/ Just think about it. He wants all the possible town PRs to use their PR in a hope that they'll get something, but most likely not. It'd be stupid to do that for 2 or 3 nights straight and even not getting anything. And he can just say, "Oh well I wasn't ready to not use the ability."

I visited Zyrconium. And I did get soemthing.

Aaaand this is all BS. As I've said, I didn't hide last night, and the plan was that you'd only need to do it for the one night if you did what I said, the stuff about every night was to throw the scum off-scent. But no, you decided that you were just going to go with random.org or whatever.

And what makes you think Zoo Visitors are all the possible Town PRs?

The only publicly known ones, they are.

The reason I wanted ALL ZOO VISITORS to target me was because it was painfully obvious to me that as soon as I suggested the plan, if they weren't going to kill me (and I didn't think they were going to kill me) that they would be killing a Zoo Visitor.

I know this will be turned around on me, but we have no way of knowing that is true. The fact is, I had no way of knowing you would use the protect or not. I'm not going to waste my PR just because you say so.

And trying to wagon me? What's this?

Sorry, pretty busy irl, with Track in full swing and lots of projects in school etc. I'm just checking up really.
But I', apposed to a Stels lynch, I'm really not convinced and nothing he's done seems damning. IMO, I'm thinking scum is on this wagon, cause I really haven't seen much reason at all for this.

Uh-huh, here was your vague post opposing the Stels wagon without addressing my case AT ALL, and then your vague non-specific attack followed by NO VOTE which now lets you say "WELL I MEANT HOPPSTER". No, that's not going to work, sorry.

What? Is all this directed at the one quote? I was stating how I felt about the wagon quickly. It had no vote because it wasn't meant to have a vote. And "I MEANT HOPPSTER" makes no sense.

Your reason provided for targetting Kalofer is also a steaming heap of BS.

Because I didn't understand how he knew TS was town and I figured it give me information.

WAIT THAT SEEMS AWFULLY FAMILIAR

Next, don't lynch TS. Just don't, it WILL be a mislynch.

MMHHM, THOUGHT SO.

So how come you had mysterious reasons for thinking Twistedspoon was town, yet Kalofer does as well and it doesn't occur to you that you have the same mysterious reasons?

That doesn't apply. I was able to try and find out why he thought that, so I did. I never said he couldn't have his reasons. You are putting words in my mouth now.

VOTE: Hazard

@Hazard: If Hoppster wants all Zoo Visitors to target someone, then why does he want himself targeted? May just be a phrasing issue

waiting for some more input from people

Okay, my thinking was admittedly quite selfish, but when it turned out we were lynching Stels and thus couldn't use the 'Zoo Visitor-Cop target Stels' plan, my plan was to confirm myself as town. There have been suspicions about my role as a scum fake-claim or whatever, and I wanted to prove my hiding was OPTIONAL - and I thus had a role that would be extremely improbable to be in the hands of scum imo.

The reason all Zoo Visitors were needed to target me was because it was very likely imo that one (and it was probably going to be Kalofer) would be killed, and then I'd be held responsible. This problem would not occur if ALL ZOO VISITORS targeted me.


@ Amrun: I'm waiting for follow-up posts and discounting that first post by Vas as null.

Morthas: If you could compile everything I need to answer into one post, that'd be great. I did see you asked for reads though. I'll get that in a follow up post in a few minutes.

Zyrconium: You weren't told. Did you happen to have raw dough before night one? Because that is what I was given. Also, your post is sending mixed messages to me. You are disagreeing with my Hoppster wagon at first, but then you say a Hoppster/VV team is possible. Isn't that contradictory?

Amrun: You asked if we are assuming Candy Animals are town, I remembered reading soemthing in the beginning about some of the visitors being evil.

Someone remind me what the case is for CP? He hasn't even posted yet (I think).

[Hazard with a Glove]

Oh, forgot, my type in purple.

[ToastyToast]

I'm feeling sweet about a cp lynch.
But then again, I did for Stels, too.

I think cp lynch is a mistake. We were wrong about the first two lurker/VI players, and I don't think we should be looking there again.

[Amrun]

But can we afford to bring cp into lylo?

[Hazard with a Glove]

Amrun: Null/Town.
He hasn't done anything very scummy at all, but his posts seem like fluff most of the time to me, usually consisting of simple one line questions that sometimes don't need to be asked anyway.
CP: null
He hasn't done anything scummy, but he hasn't done anything at all. He's lurking far to much, but I don't really believe in Lynch all Lurkers.
Hoppster: scum.
Mb53: Null/town: He seems pretty town ish to me. Is he on V/la or something?
Morthas: Null. I don't know what to think about him at this point. He seemed pretty town during D1, and still now I guess.
ToastyToast: Town. He strikes me as town by the way he posts I guess.
NS/VV: Based on his recent posts, town.
Vezok: Town. From what everyone else has said, he must be incompetent.
Zyrconium: scum/null.

[ToastyToast]

But can we afford to bring cp into lylo?

Well if we aim for people who seem scum rather than null, we shouldn't need to worry about lylo

[Amrun]

Hazard: I value brevity. Also post on my phone mostly.

Toasty: Yes, but I find the two are coinciding in cp. I'd love to see more cp content, though.

[mb53]

For now I will vote the lurker until VV/the replacement makes a post about the game. I still have a feeling about NS scum. Also have a small scum read on zyrc from back on day one.

Vote: CP