Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

Bulvious · Post Post #450 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:44 am

Bulvious worte:
generally refuses

And when I say that, I mean Kard didn't really place a vote besides on Alnpka. Going to re-read Kard now.

Bulvious · Post Post #451 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:54 am

So, now knowing that Fatso was on his third game, a lot of his prior things are pretty durn scummy, though I'm still leaning a bit noob on that.

But then Kard comes in, and what has he done?

Nothing. Read his shit over. It's something like "Intro" "Sorry not done reading" "Sorry here's something everyone can agree with" "Opportunistic opinion" "Adding weight" "Oh, sorry, reading more" "Gotta catch up" "Catching up in a hurry!" "OOPP STILL NOTHING BUT HERE'S MY HAMMER!"

Of course those aren't direct quotes and they're really not even all THAT accurate (at least not the order).

What I'm seeing is that he's been really opportunistic, he's failed to comment much on the game, and he's failed to deliver when he's said he would. And then of course there's Fatso's previous play which in retrospect I'm not liking so much at least not when you throw in what Kard's contributed to the spot.

He's clearly extremely fackin' new - at least on this account/site. Kard, what's your play experience? On other forums and etc...? Is there anything there?

Workdawg · Post Post #452 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:51 am

This post is just in direct response to various posts so far today. I will post up another with my thoughts on the lynch, NK and others after this.

shotty

drmyshottyizsik wrote:Congrats workdawg you made your self look more scummy! Also
if you really thought he was town
then you wouldn't need to appologize. More votes please.

Do you mean to say "scum" here? Are you projecting what a scum would think onto me? IF I were scum, then I suppose I would have to think "if I thought he was town"... but I'm not.

Clearly I really thought he was scum, and I pushed hard to get him lynched. Obviously I was mistaken and I feel like his lynch is my fault because I provided many reasons to lynch him. I made a mistake and am apologizing for it... simple as that.

alnpka

Coming on strong D2... where was this the last day? In any case... I understand school, and I didn't realize that the deadline would have been early in the morning for you... though I suppose it makes since as it seems like you are German.

To answer your question, I had already refuted his points a couple of times and I didn't feel like typing it all up again, or wasting a wall post simply quoting myself. The post I was responding to was simply a summary of his case against me, so I gave a summary of my thoughts in regards to it.

Bulvious

I don't care that Zd was pushing for a lynch on me, but the fact that he did it with NO sound arguments is what I thought was scummy. I refuted every single point he brought against me and it came down to him either misunderstanding what I wrote or trying to twist it to make it look scummy. I cannot think of a single town reason to MAKE UP a case against someone. If he had dropped his case after I disproved it, that would have been one thing, but he didn't. He kept on going to the last second.

I've welcomed cases against me because I have nothing to hide, but that does NOT mean that I will roll over and give up if someone throws a pile of crap at me and calls it a case.

As for the last part of your comments towards me, I'm not sure what you are talking about I guess. Me "agreeing with his PoV" and something being fishy. Can you elaborate on what you were talking about?

Antihero · Post Post #453 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:58 am

Vote Count #17

Workdawg - 1 (drmyshottyizsik)

Not Voting: alnkpa, Bulvious, chkflip, h3ll0, Kard, Workdawg

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Deadline is May 9th.

drmyshottyizsik · Post Post #454 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:44 pm

Hey Anti with 7 alive it is 4 to lynch

Bulvious · Post Post #455 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:08 pm

You said you agree with h3ll0's point of view, as in you could see it from his eyes. Yet you go on to say it's still fishy. I quoted you, read the quote to understand, and if you don't understand, read your post, if you still don't, read h3ll0's post. If you don't understand after that - I can't help you. Lol

Kard · Post Post #456 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:26 pm

Bulvious wrote: He's clearly extremely fackin' new - at least on this account/site. Kard, what's your play experience? On other forums and etc...? Is there anything there?

No play experience, at all, I joined because I had heard people talking about this site on Gamefaqs, it seemed interesting, so I joined.

Also, let me just say this, and I'll be waiting for someone to accuse me doing this because of your long post against me. Though, to be fair, I've had this theory since before N1 began. I personally think you're scum. Why? This might sound like a flawed reason, but you survived N1. Let's face it, you're the strongest person in the game, would scum really profit from letting you slide? I don't think so.

Workdawg · Post Post #457 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:45 pm

@Bulvious

Ahh, you only quoted part of my comments, not the part in re h3ll0, so that's why I was confused.

Here are the other thought's I've got:

This is pure conjecture... talking about the lynch and NK is really just a brain dump as it's HIGHLY subject to WIFOM trickery and whatnot... but I think it's worth mentioning some things anyway.

The Lynch/Hammer

Lynching the cop D1 is obviously about as bad as it gets. The hammer by Kard, is curious at best. I *think* he was just waiting until the last possible second to do it to make sure Zd had a chance to claim, or to make sure we got a lynch in instead of a no-lynch with 4 votes against one player. I think both of those are pretty town plays, but at the same time, it'd take a pretty dumb scum to jump on the bandwagon at the end and NOT wait as long as possible.

The NK

I think it's curious at best that h3ll0 got the vote from ST, and then ST died. I think ST had probably been doing some of the best scumhunting, despite his infrequent posting, and as the IC would be a natural target for pretty much any scum. Considering that an SE player got lynched as well, the only "experienced player" we've got left on our side is shotty. He's tunneling me so hard he's probably halfway to China already, so really he's not doing us any good either. He's literally not commented on anyone else's play.

@h3ll0

Do you have anything to say in regards to ST's case against you?

@Kard

What is it about Bulvious that makes you think he is the strongest player in the game? You had a theory that he is scum from before N1, but it's based on the fact that he survived N1? I think it does sound like a flawed reason. I'd like to hear more about this though.

@chkflip

It's been a while, what are your thoughts about the latest events?
I've reviewed you ISO and I'm curious what your thoughts are on your suspicions of a "Work/Kard" scumteam? I'm still not sure what "the odd coincidence" was that you were referring to earlier.
First you say we seem like a viable scumpair, then you make the interesting "WORKDAWG IS L-1" statement, and then you say I'm town? It's just not adding up for me.

drmyshottyizsik · Post Post #458 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:04 pm

Yes I meant scum wordawg. And stop making WIFOM.

Kard · Post Post #459 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:25 pm

Workdawg wrote:
@Kard

What is it about Bulvious that makes you think he is the strongest player in the game? You had a theory that he is scum from before N1, but it's based on the fact that he survived N1? I think it does sound like a flawed reason. I'd like to hear more about this though.

I guess I didn't explain it very good, my theory was that if he survived N1 he was scum, and I came up with this before N1.

Why do I think he's the strongest player? He's certainly the most active, and he's definitely been putting the most pressure on people. Do you really think scum would let this slip by? I mean, they killed ST of all people, I think it was merely to make everyone look as far away from him as possible, has he didn't have a large amount of interaction with him.

Bulvious · Post Post #460 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:25 pm

Kard wrote:
Why do I think he's the strongest player? He's certainly the most active, and he's definitely been putting the most pressure on people. Do you really think scum would let this slip by? I mean, they killed ST of all people, I think it was merely to make everyone look as far away from him as possible, has he didn't have a large amount of interaction with him.

Or they knew that killing ST would frame me because he was the only one applying REAL pressure against me. Doing so would put me in a hot spot due to that fact, and plus I didn't really do a great job with assisting the Zdenek wagon either. So basically: Killed cop, and then they killed the guy who would seem the most appealing to kill off for me.

So, being that ST applied pressure to me, and I was obviously displeased with his job as an IC, how is that distancing? I just told everyone who I had so far seemed closest to. Why not kill one of those and look like I couldn't possibly be scum? Perhaps because I want to keep them for later? But wouldn't it solidify my town role more so to get rid of one of them, someone who I was apparently defending?

To me, your connection that because they didn't kill me I must be scum doesn't really say a whole lot. Seems fragile at best. Additionally, why not say this before the night came along?

Saying something like "I have a theory about someone depending on the NK." Would have made scum second guess. They might have continued to do what they did, and you would have established this theory before hand instead of having pulled it out of your arse.

chkflip · Post Post #461 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:38 pm

Got kicked out of my place. Will give a full read and give my thoughts asap.

h3ll0 · Post Post #462 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:59 am

Workdawg wrote:
@h3ll0

Do you have anything to say in regards to ST's case against you?

I'm not sure if there is anything that I want to add that I haven't already said during my defence from Zdenek's case. I've already explained my rationale for voting you on Day 1, I agree with him that my case on Zdenek was weak, as it was more or less due to frustration more than logic (AKA it was OMGUS). I still stand by my view that Fatso/Kard is still scummy and I don't see how people call Alpnka scummy, while thinking that Fatso/Kard is town, when the later has done more stuff that is scummy.

h3ll0 · Post Post #463 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:59 am

Kard wrote:I guess I didn't explain it very good, my theory was that if he survived N1 he was scum, and I came up with this before N1.

Why do I think he's the strongest player? He's certainly the most active, and he's definitely been putting the most pressure on people. Do you really think scum would let this slip by? I mean, they killed ST of all people, I think it was merely to make everyone look as far away from him as possible, has he didn't have a large amount of interaction with him.

More likely that the mafia suspect ST to be a PR and stuff. Which kinds of made sense as his play wasn't particularly spectacular for an IC.

Workdawg · Post Post #464 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:55 am

How do people feel about shotty? I'm really torn on what to think about him. On one hand, he seems to know what to look for when he's scumhunting and I think he definitely brings good insight, but on the other hand, he's done NOTHING but tunnel on me the entire time and hasn't actually brought up any valid points. I don't get a scum vibe from him, but at the same time, I don't understand why he's tunneling on me so hard with a bunch of misleading points. Does this rub anyone else the wrong way? I haven't really seen anyone else comment on his play other than me...

I would really like to get some insight from him on someone other than me.

Workdawg · Post Post #465 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:56 am

EBWOP: Or at least some valid points against me, if he insists on remaining glued to me.

alnkpa · Post Post #466 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:32 am

@drmyshottyizsik:

I don't think your tunneling on WD isn't very helpful so early in the day. I personally think it is the opposite. You're not even anwering any questions. I don't like it that you don't help town in any way. For instance, open up or atleast start talking to us as well.

Kard wrote:Also, let me just say this, and I'll be waiting for someone to accuse me doing this because of your long post against me. Though, to be fair, I've had this theory since before N1 began. I personally think you're scum. Why? This might sound like a flawed reason, but you survived N1. Let's face it, you're the strongest person in the game, would scum really profit from letting you slide? I don't think so.

You are going a way that is commonly referred to as WIFOM. You could just say that scum had that idea in mind when they didn't kill Bulvious just to let him look scummy … And so on. I don't think that is a good reason. Sorry.

Workdawg wrote:Lynching the cop D1 is obviously about as bad as it gets. The hammer by Kard, is curious at best. I *think* he was just waiting until the last possible second to do it to make sure Zd had a chance to claim, or to make sure we got a lynch in instead of a no-lynch with 4 votes against one player. I think both of those are pretty town plays, but at the same time, it'd take a pretty dumb scum to jump on the bandwagon at the end and NOT wait as long as possible.

I think you can neither call that a scumtell nor a towntell. It was just the only option he had.

alnkpa · Post Post #467 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:32 am

EBWODP: I think your tunneling isn't very helpful so early in the day.

Bulvious · Post Post #468 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:24 am

He came up with one or two, WD. You are pretty damn wishy-washy and I'm seeing that more and more. It COULD be that you don't want to be mislynched (which is always sort of a worry for townies) so you don't take a firm stance, or you just see both points to the things your ww on, or you're scum. Too many different possibilities for me to really narrow you down for a lynch.

Workdawg · Post Post #469 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:51 am

I'm just trying to analyze things from as many sides as I can rather than being just seeing EVERYTHING as a scummy action. That was one of the things I was criticized on in my last game (interpreting everything as a scummy action, pretty much convincing myself an action is scummy when maybe it's not). So I guess that could look like being wishy-washy. Is it better to really analyze things and post my thoughts or to not do that? Like I said, mislynching Zd has only made me feel like I need to analyze more.

chkflip · Post Post #470 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:33 am

WHATTHEFUCK TOWN. I feel stupid for going against my Zd is town stance. Son. Of. A. Moving on, I'll have detailed responses for WorkDawg and one other person who's asked me questions specifically. My next post will also have some death analysis because I think it'll help us now that we lynched our power role D1.

Workdawg · Post Post #471 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:57 am

@chkflip

First of all, sorry for the unfortunate events occuring (sick and then getting kicked out).

I have to say though that your recent actions are coming off a bit scummy to me for a couple of reasons.

1. Your WTF stance on me and Kard. You said you'll reply to this, so I'll just wait for that.
2. Your "Zd is town stance." I find this mildly suspicious simply because the only time you ever mentioned him was in your first analysis post where you cite his meta as justification for a town read. Yet you are willing to join his wagon at a critical time simply because he was flip-flopping his vote? Then you end up not being around for last 36 hours of the day to compound the suspicion. I don't want to kick you while you're down, so to speak, but it seems quite convenient that you got in on the middle of the wagon with a fairly weak reason and then weren't around. A weak "town read" on someone, a weak reason to vote, and then some convenient absence.
3.

chkflip wrote:...
My next post will also have some death analysis because I think it'll help us now that
we lynched our power role
D1.

It's a mild slip, but it sure sounds to me like you KNOW that the cop is our only power role in this game. There could still be a doc around, unless you happen to know there isn't...

Workdawg · Post Post #472 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:10 am

VOTE: chkflip

h3ll0 · Post Post #473 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:32 pm

Workdawg wrote:It's a mild slip, but it sure sounds to me like you KNOW that the cop is our only power role in this game. There could still be a doc around, unless you happen to know there isn't...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Mafia do not know how many power roles there are in a basic game. All they know is who is Mafia, and hence who is town.

On the other hand, this lack of knowledge pretty much clears you as town as well.

h3ll0 · Post Post #474 (ISO) » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:35 pm

h3ll0 wrote:
Workdawg wrote:It's a mild slip, but it sure sounds to me like you KNOW that the cop is our only power role in this game. There could still be a doc around, unless you happen to know there isn't...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Mafia do not know how many power roles there are in a basic game. All they know is who is Mafia, and hence who is town.

On the other hand, this lack of knowledge pretty much clears you as town as well.

Scratch that, I just went to check the game setup, and you may be right.

Vote chkflip