Newbie 1086 (GAME OVER)

[Zachrulez]

A little shy of 4 days left.

10th vote count of day 1:

Mogri - 4 (MagnaofIllusion, JasonT1981, Darkcoffeejazz, Space Pope)
JasonT1981 - 2 (Jerako, Mogri)
projectmatt - 1 (TOGTFO)

Not voting: (runner, projectmatt)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Day 1 will end no later than 2:30PM CST on Saturday April 23rd.

[Jerako]

Jason - The way he latches on to the tiniest, sometimes false, thing, and acts like it's more conclusive evidence than it is, is very scummy. Offers no evidence as to why the tiny things he's latching on to are more inclined to be scum mistakes than town mistakes.

Mogri - Is trying way too hard to seem reasonable. I think his strawmans are deliberate, and he was trying to draw attention away from that with his emphasis on other logical fallacies. Likely scum, but could be overaggressive town. I agree that it's unlikely that both jason and mogri are scum. It makes no sense to bus your partner that hard, that early.

Space Pope - I do not like his push for a policy lynch on liars, especially when the lie in question may or may not be a lie, and even if it was, is mostly unrelated to the current game.

MagnaofIllusion - My strongest town read. I can't see scum pretending to scumhunt the way he's doing it. Good reasoning, and getting people to explain their points when they don't make sense. Scum would more likely let some of the things slide that he hasn't, imo.

Runner - Completely null read. I feel like he could be trying harder than he is, but I don't have any actual problems with the things he's said.

Darkcoffejazz/Rockynpoika- I like the way rockynpoika opened. Almost immediate exit from RVS, which is helpful. I don't agree that RVS is completely devoid of information, but there certainly is more with the discussion he started. I find jason's attack on leaving it so soon very scummy. Darkcoffee is a town read.

TOGTFO - Does seem to be actually scumhunting, though I can see it as fake scumhunting more than I can MoI. Null read on Sisterman. Total read, inconclusive, leaning town.

projectmatt - I don't think the contradiction jason raised is a contradiction at all. What I do find interesting is the paranoia about a potential RVS quicklynch, while saying that it basically wasn't a real wagon anyway, due to likely mafia avoidance of a quickhammer. (ergo, nothing to be paranoid about). I don't agree with any other points that have been raised against him, and I'm not entirely convinced that it's indicative of paranoid scum over paranoid town. It's just paranoia.

[Jerako]

I would prefer a jason lynch. Mogri's flip would certainly be valuable, but I think it's slightly more likely that jason is the scum.

Barring a shift in votes to jason, I do fully intend to hammer you, Mogri.

[TOGTFO]

There is your intent. Please claim Mogri.

Is there anyone here who actually would have been fine with a no lynch today?

[Space Pope]

If it helps, Zengar was replaced, so he wasn't so much "actively lurking" as "not here at all." I really don't get why you think my connection with Zengar makes me scummy if you no longer think Zeng -- er, Jerako -- is scummy. I mean, why'd you even bring it up?

To explain why I was waiting for Zengar, obv. I don't think that makes you scummy, I gave other reasons why.

[projectmatt]

Observations:

Okay, I've tested the water, and now, I'm pretty certain that MOI and Jason are not mafia partners. I wish they could interact more, but MOI's reasoning for not doing so seemed to be very logical and not just an excuse as for the lack of communication between the two.

I also love that MOI was the first to point out my slightly illogical statement. (that the BW went quickly.) I'll still point out things as I see them, but for now my read on him is leaning town. I was searching out for certain reactions, and I got them.

I believed that Mogri was town eariler, and I'm still slightly convinced that he will flip so, but he seems to be...cracking.

Example A:

Like MOI I am not going to repeat my reasoning... I believe I have given my views enough already for you to understand why I am voting you and believe you to be scum.

I also gotta say that parroting MoI isn't helping your case here.

It looked like to me that he was trying to pin the blame on someone else\divert the wagon.

Example B:

Because it's not the only time in this thread I've said "I think player X means Y." If that's the sole basis for your vote, please reconsider.

This post kind of appeared desperate to me. I'm unsure what to make of it.

Jason is still my main FOS, for the record. He's jumping all over whichever BW comes his way and then just gives us THIS cop out.

Like MOI I am not going to repeat my reasoning... I believe I have given my views enough already for you to understand why I am voting you and believe you to be scum.

But I'm pretty sure that at this point, the wagon won't change. It's about time for Mogri to claim. Presuming that he flips town, it's not game over yet, but I wish we had more time to discuss.

[Mogri]

I'm not going to claim just yet. I think it's ridiculous that everyone is ignoring this:

Meanwhile, while we're on the topic of questions being avoided,

I have asked you a question three times now and you haven't answered it.

Anyone who's jumping on me for not answering his

loaded

question, take a look at MoI and Jason and ask yourselves why they can't answer a

simple, legitimate

question.

You two have not exchanged words once in eight pages of posts. I would like an explanation from both of you.

You explained your read on him, but that does not explain why you two have never once talked to each other, despite being two of the most active players in the thread.

Anyone who thinks my avoidance of MoI's question earlier was scummy, please take a good, hard look at this. To MoI, I repeat the question and further ask, "If I am scummy for that action, what does that say about you?"

Is there anyone here who actually would have been fine with a no lynch today?

There is no reason whatsoever for a no lynch today. I'd rather you all lynch me than no-lynch; at least town can learn something that way. That said, Jerako, please don't hammer; we don't have long left today and if I don't misunderstand, I die either way at deadline. In the meantime, there's some good discussion going on right now.

Mogri - Is trying way too hard to seem reasonable.

I... really don't know what you mean by this.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

I thought MOI answered you already Mogri. Several times.

Also, I'm really not ok with a no lynch. A no lynch will tell us nothing new, and in my experience you get more information from a lynch than you do from the mafia's first kill.

[Mogri]

I thought MOI answered you already Mogri. Several times.

Then I must have missed it several times. Where's his answer?

[Darkcoffeejazz]

Yes, let me answer something that MOI should actually point out. That's smart.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

And sorry if that came across as mean. It wasn't my intention.

[TOGTFO]

I realize that it is not a majority, but I have a feeling most people are going to want a lynch opposed to a no lynch. With that said, Mogri

does

need to claim now as the deadline is quickly coming. No more holding off on pointless questions that have already been answered.

[Mogri]

The other half of the equation that's being ignored: even if you think MoI answered the question (and I don't think he did), Jason certainly did not. Jason's only comments on the matter have been to deny it outright and a drunken "yeah, what he said" in response to a matt post.

I'll claim later today (realtime), if it comes to that, but for now, here's my list of reads.

Jason: Scum. If he's not scum, he's worthless town for reasons that Jerako and matt have pointed out. Do yourselves a favor and lynch him tomorrow.

MoI: Leaning scum. I didn't have any particular reason to suspect him before I noticed the no-comm with Jason. If Jason's town, then MoI is probably town as well.

matt: Town. He got overzealous at the beginning, but he really is trying.

DCJ: Leaning town. In hindsight, rocky comes off as aggressive town. DCJ's reasoning on me is actually pretty good and his recap was helpful.

Runner: Null. Hasn't been very active; watch him for lurkiness.

Jerako: Slightly leaning town. I wasn't paying much attention to ZZ (and he wasn't posting much anyway), but I like Jerako's recap.

Space Pope: Null. Another player I haven't paid too much attention to, and another of the less active ones. Better than Runner in this regard.

TOGTFO: Town. He's been trying to be helpful. The no-lynch suggestion was a bad one, but I can see that as a newbie mistake: being unfamiliar with strategy.

[Mogri]

Addendum: Right now, it's only matt and TOGTFO asking me to claim. Jerako said he would hammer me conditionally, not that he would definitely hammer. Claiming now is premature, but I'll do it if there's demand other than from two people who don't suspect me anyway.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Is there anyone here who actually would have been fine with a no lynch today?

This is a good question. I do not.

@Everyone who has yet to answer

– in your next post please indicate if you would accept a No-Lynch.

Mogri has indicated he does not support a no-lynch.

--

To MoI, I repeat the question and further ask, "If I am scummy for that action, what does that say about you?"

Your question is – why haven’t I talked to Jason? The answer is simply this – I don’t feel the need to interrogate Jason Day 1 to get a solid read on him. I would think that would have been self explanatory based on my response to Project.

Does it make me scummy? If you want to make that case I’ll not dispute that I was specifically not answering your question. It was for a reason … to help cement my read on Jason.

That said, Jerako, please don't hammer; we don't have long left today and

if I don't misunderstand, I die either way at deadline.

In the meantime, there's some good discussion going on right now.

The bolded is an example of why I, in my first post, made a point of expressly asking everyone to read the rules. Per the Mod’s ruleset –

Each day the town decides on a lynch. You will require one half of the living players plus one in order to achieve a lynching majority. I will go out of my way to make sure you are aware of this number. Be aware that you must achieve this threshold for a lynch, even at deadline. (No lynch will occur at deadline if there's no majority.)

If five votes for a player are not reached by deadline a no-lynch will occur.

[Space Pope]

No way will I support a No lynch. I have no strong town reads.

Mogri- Everyone who is voting for you is essentially wanting you to claim (I don't see how in this setup someone would not want their suspect to claim before they get hammered). Therefore when another person not on the wagon wishes for you to claim, that is a majority of the players wanting you to claim.

[Darkcoffeejazz]

For once, I completely agree with everything Space has said in the above post. And I think I already stated that I would be opposed to a No Lynch, but I'm saying this again just in case people missed it.

[Mogri]

Your question is – why haven’t I talked to Jason? The answer is simply this – I don’t feel the need to interrogate Jason Day 1 to get a solid read on him. I would think that would have been self explanatory based on my response to Project.

Does it make me scummy? If you want to make that case I’ll not dispute that I was specifically not answering your question. It was for a reason … to help cement my read on Jason.

Fair enough... What does it say about Jason, though, that he hasn't gotten around to answering?

Therefore when another person not on the wagon wishes for you to claim, that is a majority of the players wanting you to claim.

The only people outside of the wagon who have asked for a claim have also said they think I'm town. The only person who has indicated interest in hammering me did so conditionally and did not ask for a claim. I can understand that you're anxious to get things moving, but please consider:
- I will probably get lynched regardless of claim at this point
- Claiming opens me up to be hammered
- There are some questions I want answered before I go.

I

will

claim, but to do so prematurely is detrimental to town.

[jasonT1981]

Morgi, read the game you will see I have had interaction with MOI... I also have answered the question.

Also, L-1 is not premature.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fair enough... What does it say about Jason, though, that he hasn't gotten around to answering?

Do you not read the thread? I’m seriously asking because I gave my read on Jason back at post 218 –

You are correct. I did. Just as I did when Mogri first started asking about it. I wanted as long as possible to get a sense of Jason’s play here. I’m currently neutral leaning scum on him. The hallmark of Jason’s scum play is passivity. Scum Jason doesn’t build cases or attack people and is content to play defense and coast. Early on in the Day Jason was actively questioning players and being pro-active. However since he voted for Mogri he’s gone into a much less active pattern. He’s been content to post that he’s catching up and engaged only Mogri. While the game isn’t very fast-pased the fact that he’s slowed considerably in his play is suspect.

I will say this – if Mogri is scum Jason is Town. The chances of scum partners bussing so early on a wagon (he was the second vote) is almost zero in a Newbie game.

This points to one of my problems with you – lack of thread awareness. If you were Town and reading the thread looking for content you certainly should have seen this. Scum, meanwhile, have motivation to pick out quotes and statements that they can use to craft ‘cases’ because they don’t need to actually scum-hunt. They have all the information.

--

@Jason

– now that I’ve had time to make a read on you I have questions –

1. Who would be your second and third suspects if Mogri is Town? Why?
2. Please explain why you have a series of posts from ISO 30 to ISO 33 where you basically state multiple times you are ‘catching up’ but have no significant posts after that with any content. Your posts after ISO 33 are all little pot-shots and comments to Mogri.

[jasonT1981]

1) IF Morgi is town, and that IMO is a very slight possibility then my attention will be turning back to Matt. As for no3 suspect I am not quite sure as of now. but probably Runner has picked up my attention with his lurking. DJC is also up there a bit... I can't shake Rocky's early play despite DJC looking better so he is coming across as town, but early rocky still has me thinking.

2) yea, I kinda have been slacking.. I am suffering a bit of Mafia Burnout right now its just hard to get myself into the game at times.

[jasonT1981]

1) IF Morgi is town, and that IMO is a very slight possibility then my attention will be turning back to Matt. As for no3 suspect I am not quite sure as of now. but probably Runner has picked up my attention with his lurking. DJC is also up there a bit... I can't shake Rocky's early play despite DJC looking better so he is coming across as town, but early rocky still has me thinking.

2) yea, I kinda have been slacking.. I am suffering a bit of Mafia Burnout right now its just hard to get myself into the game at times.

[Zachrulez]

Official 3 day warning.

[jasonT1981]

Fair enough... What does it say about Jason, though, that he hasn't gotten around to answering?

Do you not read the thread? I’m seriously asking because I gave my read on Jason back at post 218 –

.

the fact he was asking people to show him why we are voting him as well as this shows he does not read and is coasting through and ignoring things.

I am still wondering why he danced around your question only to then say about you avoiding things.

[jasonT1981]

Alright, 3 days to deadline... L-1

CLAIM.

Stop stalling... the majority are waiting for your claim and you avoided it for long before saying it was premature.

3 days to go and L-1 is NOT premature... the fact you are refusing to claim right now is speaking more than words can say too.