Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[Sundy]

Sundy: What do you call vague? Your saying your questioning lead you to ZF who was a replacement of .......bv/morph. How do the questions you asked lead you to ZF?

I didn't say they led to ZF, I say they helped me read of the game. Especially with the way TT responded to the questions I put him.

And yes, I already read the post in which you described every player with two words, declared a subset town, and claimed that justified a case on me. In fact I even helpfully paraphrased your line of argumentation:

"I already decided everybody else is town, therefore the next lynch is X."

And I notice that you're complaining that I'm vague for suggesting the possibility that you might be scum (SHOCKING I know), but you also cut out the points I made about your play:

1) You gave town reads on TT & ZF immediately before you put them in the "scum category or null" with me, which shows that your town reads amount to a hill of jumping beans
2) You claimed to like Jora's views on ZF even though at the time he expressed them you were telling him to shut up so that the lynch on Jakalope would go through.

Also the bandwagon on CJ is worse than the bandwagon on TT. Fitz votes with "I just get a scummy feeling," and DRK doesn't expand at all upon his vote. Also Toast, but Toast obviously just wants the bandwagon off him so that's a bit more forgivable (assuming he's town). CJ's made me look twice in Day 2, but anything he did was done x2 by Fitz/DRK.

[farside22]

1) You gave town reads on TT & ZF immediately before you put them in the "scum category or null" with me, which shows that your town reads amount to a hill of jumping beans
2) You claimed to like Jora's views on ZF even though at the time he expressed them you were telling him to shut up so that the lynch on Jakalope would go through.

1)Umm do I really need to quote every single post on why I had my town list, I mean if you read everything I wrote it's all in there.
2) Really please quote where I told Jora to shut off and lynch Jak.

Since I know I never told anyone to shut up I will just say now
*cough* lying scum *cough*

[Sundy]

iPhone mafia. Ok when Jora first started accusing ZF:

You realize before you did this vote there was only 36 hour left in the game.
If you going to switch votes at least push for a reason better then competing wagons.

Jora: I'm already voting Jak and the claim doesn't change anything.

It doesn't sound here like you're too enthralled with Jora's reasoning. More like brushing it off and saying its not worth a vote switch.

Day 2 you briefly suggest Jora's lack of a vote on ZF is "odd" given his previous posts but don't put him in your top 3 suspects. 

then you give him a town read for these same posts...

jora mentioned some interesting points on ZF that earned my view and Yabba's recent post and view I see more what I expected from day 1.

...even though you ignored them when they were made and THEN very subtly implied he was scummy for not coming back to them?

So what exactly DID/DO you think of jora's points on ZF? 

[farside22]

So vote switching with 36 hours and a possible no lynch is a good idea to you Sundy?
And if you see Jora's reason was exactly what I stated was competing wagons. Doing that late in the game makes no sense. How does it make sense to you Sundy?
Jora town isn't in the quote you used ,also when someone says they find a player scummy day 1 then vote someone else, yes I find it odd, but not enough to say Jora is scum.
So in short pushing a wagon late in the day in my view could lead to a no lynch (which I don't agree with) and didn't understand after Jora's post at the end of the day why he wouldn't come back to it. It's not enough to find Jora scummy. I find the point interesting (IE: worth keeping an eye on ZF).

[Jora]

So vote switching with 36 hours and a possible no lynch is a good idea to you Sundy?

Competing/swithing wagons is good no matter how late they are. May be I'm lucky or something but it quite often results in epic town-win when everybody doing their best till the very end of deadline.
So, I'll no hammer my lesser suspect for only reason of avoiding no-lynch untill we have at least 1 or 2 hours left.

Why no one is voting ZF?

[farside22]

Why no one is voting ZF?

Why are you voting TT today when you were pushing ZF at the end of the day?


@DRK: What happened to your suspicions yesterday?

[Jora]

I tend to rethink my last day position. TT had been voted by inspiration, and then I've found it being a good vote. ZF are still in my suspects. Just I'm not ready to decide whom I suspect most.

[farside22]

By the way Sundy in your haste to make my post questionable did you note what Jora even said at the time and when I made my statement to Jora bout his point?
Just curious because it looks like all you did was Iso and throw together a post.

I need to see something that just hit me. I don't know if I will have time to check

*note reread TT*

[ZeroFang]

Re-read forthcoming later today or tomorrow. My eye is on the Fang and the Farside, the lurker-turned-active, and Mrs. Experienced. I'm getting a hunch.

That's actually very wrong, on my part. My predecessors were terribly lurky, sure. But yesterday, for the part I was there for at least, I was one of the most active players. And today's been generally slow, in addition to me having limited access to a computer (and celebrating 4/20, but thats more of a personal matter), which actually makes me an active-turned-lurker.

[ZeroFang]

@ZF: Basically,this also my list
In my opinion, yabba has yet to make a good case, and I think he's looking for little things to attack on.

The scummy content from Toast is the lack thereof. Simple. ISO and you judge it.

Which is itself not a great thing to determine scum. Again, remember Jackalope lynch? Same. Exact. Reasons. The difference? I actually popped in from time to time--see if I could get a reaction to questions, but this game was...well, boring, and I was busy.

The first link was a small list of suspicions justifying your vote (not a case), and the second was a very general overview of your thoughts of everyone in the game. Neither are cases. Lack of content is actually a great indicator of scum, since it shows you aren't being active and participating in the game, and you aren't willing to let your opinionsbe critisized.

Jakalope was lynched out of necessity. We didn't have a large enough wagon to get a lynch otherwise.

Also, I just wanna point this out, lack of content and lurking are two different things. You have lack of content. The two guys behind me were lurkers.

[yabbaguy]

cjdrum wagon is AWFUL. havingfitz spews bullshit and starts it, then DRK and Toast just fly onto it. AWFUL wagon.

(That said cjdrum, "_____ much?" is awful. Socrates is the keeper of overused buzzwords in his sig, I hope he's still active.)

Something's up with cj wagon. Probably is TT, but I have to consider DRK as potentially just the fly-by player that's also been using the "sorry, I'm busy" excuse for not participating in the game. I really, really, really, really, really want to flip TT first.

Also, I just wanna point this out, lack of content and lurking are two different things. You have lack of content. The two guys behind me were lurkers.

This, or something close to it, is why Toasty's point of "I'm just like the Jak lynch" is simply wrong.

[ZeroFang]

That's exactly why I pointed it out in the first place -_-

[farside22]

hmm I found a few interesting things that TT mentions that I need to ask Yabba a question:
Also TT in you write of Yabba and reasoning day 1 i found one thing that was false but the rest I found pretty accurate reading yabba's iso.

Who are your top 2 scum suspects and why? I know one is TT but who is the other and what is it that you find scummy about them?

[yabbaguy]

@farside: Second is probably ZeroFang as I look at it. I've gotta be really careful here, but it's sort of a conditional on ToastyToast flipping Mafia. Fang is being very anti-Toast at the moment, which pleases me, but in such an outspoken and vote-free way that it could actually just be a distancing tactics. Realizing that ZeroFang is sort of on a quasi-V/LA at the moment with his limited laptop access, I bet it's a lukewarm suspicion-flinging at Toast.

[havingfitz]

I don't have anyone significantly ahead of everyone else when it comes to suspicions. I admit that my vote on cj is not airtight. Far from it. Primarily based on gut after catching up on day 2. I also agree that TTs and DRKs subsequent cj votes were very suspect. I have not gone back to see it they had both targetted cj previous to their votes but either way...an explanation would be nice.

[farside22]

@farside: Second is probably ZeroFang as I look at it. I've gotta be really careful here, but it's sort of a conditional on ToastyToast flipping Mafia. Fang is being very anti-Toast at the moment, which pleases me, but in such an outspoken and vote-free way that it could actually just be a distancing tactics. Realizing that ZeroFang is sort of on a quasi-V/LA at the moment with his limited laptop access, I bet it's a lukewarm suspicion-flinging at Toast.

What about Sundy? TT is very anti Sundy. Sundy is very anti-TT.

There was a point brought by TT in which he mentions that you don't talk about people you find scummy till someone else brings it up. Now this isn't true in regards to fitz and I felt you didn't say much in regards to it during the time. Then TT get's mentioned and low and behold there you are along with the Stat wagon as well. In other words I did agree that your scum calls were during times that others had already called out those people.

[yabbaguy]

@farside:

What about Sundy? TT is very anti Sundy. Sundy is very anti-TT.

This is wrong. How did you come up with this?

In other words I did agree that your scum calls were during times that others had already called out those people.

I think I blatantly did that with the star wagon. As for the ToastyToast wagon, I don't know who else was on, and frankly, I don't care. There, I just said "hey, suspicious person" and went FoS followed by Vote once we dispensed with Jak.

[ToastyToast]

Hmmm, yeah sorry, Farside. I have repeatedly said that I don't understand the Sundy lynch. I want a yabba or cjdrum lynch.
Also,@Sundy: I am not voting for cjdrum because I want people off of me, I am voting for him because I think he's scum and I seem to have more support on him than I do on yabba.

[cjdrum]

TOASTYTOAST!

Can you give some solid points yourself, please? If you simply vote me

and let two others blatantly follow your bandwagon

, I have nothing to defend against.
Anything in particular that I can respond to, please?

Also, havingfitz, you haven't responded here either. Answers, pl0x?

[ToastyToast]

1) Attitude, but that was ended with my 1st vote on you
2) You + Yabbaguy makes an awful lot of sense
3) Vote hopping: I can't track your train of thought at all, don't really know where your suspicions are...in contrast to farside, ZF, and even yabbaguy, you seem to be too flexible with your reads. A proper scum list on your part would be awfully nice plz
4) The point on which you attacked me today (my speculation) is not something I see to be enough to warrant a vote, and thus the only reason I see for your vote lies within yabba's own reasons. I just don't think there is an SK among us.
5) GUT, and its a strong one. My gut basically starts my case on you, and with a suspicion in mind I've been paying a lot of attention to your posts. So, little things stick out.

[havingfitz]

Also, havingfitz, you haven't responded here either. Answers, pl0x?

Uh...this is what I have atm. If I see more I will provide it:

I don't have anyone significantly ahead of everyone else when it comes to suspicions. I admit that my vote on cj is not airtight. Far from it. Primarily based on gut after catching up on day 2. I also agree that TTs and DRKs subsequent cj votes were very suspect. I have not gone back to see it they had both targetted cj previous to their votes but either way...an explanation would be nice.

[farside22]

@farside:

What about Sundy? TT is very anti Sundy. Sundy is very anti-TT.

This is wrong. How did you come up with this?

I'm reading the game. TT said he found the case on Sundy the same was the case against Jak and Sundy doesn't mention TT and calls myself and ZF scummy.
Are you reading?

[yabbaguy]

TT said he found the case on Sundy the same was the case against Jak and Sundy doesn't mention TT and calls myself and ZF scummy.

I'm confused. Anti-each other means that they actually find each other scummy, which they don't. The former, comparing Sundy to Jak-Town means he thinks that Sundy is Town and about to be lynched for the same crappy reasons. Sundy not mentioning TT simply doesn't fit the definition.

As for ZeroFang and Toast, ZeroFang's always saying that Toast is scummy, but never backs it up with a vote or a helluva lotta conviction.

[farside22]

Yabba when I said anti- TT and Anti-Sundy I meant each was against lynching the other.

[yabbaguy]

That makes more sense. Right.

So initially, I meant that ZF really seemed like he wanted to lynch Toast, but in such an outspoken way. He's very pro-Toast lynch, it appears, but he hasn't supported it with a lot of conviction.