The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

.... I am not amused with these hijinx.


Balam vote them already

they have specifically stated that they will not claim.

LET THEM DIE IN THIER SILENCE.

fes got away with this tactic TWICE IN A ROW. You gonna allow it again? you do and we end up on someone else whose obv town again you're scum. no way around it.

I'm thinking you're stalling.

I'm this close to killing my town read on you.

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

(AGar)

Grab your ball sacks and lynch scum before they fakeclaim. I've done it many a time and it feels

so good.

No, that won't be happening. We wanted a claim, and we threatened to move without a claim in order to force a claim, not hammer away without care.

I think you're town, Balam, and I think I got as much information out of incog with this little game of brinksminship as I'm likely to, so if you still want me to claim, I will. I don't really think it'll accomplish much at this point, though.

if you're not claiming shut up and take some rope.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

(AGar)

Grab your ball sacks and lynch scum before they fakeclaim. I've done it many a time and it feels

so good.

No, that won't be happening. We wanted a claim, and we threatened to move without a claim in order to force a claim, not hammer away without care.

I think you're town, Balam, and I think I got as much information out of incog with this little game of brinksminship as I'm likely to, so if you still want me to claim, I will. I don't really think it'll accomplish much at this point, though.

if you're not claiming shut up and take some rope.

hey, there's this new game where the idea is to listen to what people say and try to figure out their alignment. It's called "mafia". You should try it some time, it's fun.

[Profane Confusion]

We need to get an explanation out of Incog, now,

before I kill this wagon by claiming

.

I think you're town, Balam, and I think I got as much information out of incog with this little game of brinksminship as I'm likely to, so if you still want me to claim, I will.

I don't really think it'll accomplish much at this point, though.

Why the change?

[Profane Confusion]

Forgot to sign.

- smarg

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

^^ answer: he made out as if he was going to claim a PR. but now he's chickened out and is going to claim a VT.

rope plox.

[Balam]

.... I am not amused with these hijinx.


Balam vote them already

they have specifically stated that they will not claim.

LET THEM DIE IN THIER SILENCE.

fes got away with this tactic TWICE IN A ROW. You gonna allow it again? you do and we end up on someone else whose obv town again you're scum. no way around it.

I'm thinking you're stalling.

I'm this close to killing my town read on you.

"Hammer without a claim or I'll think you're scum for not giving me what I want." Lolno. As yos said, you should try playing this game called mafia. It's loads of fun.

Yos, claim please.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Yos, claim please.

(shrug) Ok.

I am a jail keeper. Night 1, we targeted Beaver, and night 2, we targeted spot.

Like I said; it's not an especially useful claim, because it's not proof of alignment. Fate is just going to accuse me of being a scum roleblocker or whatever, and it doesn't really give the town useful information at this point, it just makes it easier for scum to wifom to dodge my ability. But, whatever, deadline is on may first, and you guys weren't going to move on until I claimed for whatever reason, so fine.

We need to get an explanation out of Incog, now,

before I kill this wagon by claiming

.

I think you're town, Balam, and I think I got as much information out of incog with this little game of brinksminship as I'm likely to, so if you still want me to claim, I will.

I don't really think it'll accomplish much at this point, though.

Why the change?

I was trying to get a reaction, obviously; playing games at lynch -1 is risky as hell, but it's the surest way to get information. Matermate's reaction was to unvote me so I didn't get hammered before claiming; your reaction was to ignore everything I said and keep trying to get me lynched. He's town, you're much less likely to be.

[Balam]

So why did you target beaver over, say, pathetric? You could've easily protected your

strongest town read

rather than going half cock on the possibility of blocking the scum NK. I'm guessing you chose to go half cock on te possibility for a reason, but I'm at a loss as to your relative benefit vs reward from a town-perspective on the matter.

[Balam]

(AGar)

To echo that a bit and add some(Guessing it was RF, as he doesn't sign), you admitted yourself the BeaverWeasel slot (now ProfaneConfusion) was the only slot that had any kind of non-vanilla read on Pathetric in the open. So either you did not share a non-vanilla read with us (possible) or didn't have one. I think we can all agree that a lynch on Pathetric wasn't going to happen in a million years and thus she was a safe pick for a high priority target, so I'm still baffled as to why you didn't try and prevent the kill in that manner? Neither way is going to confirm a player as town, only just whether you chose to take a roleblocking aspect or a doctoring aspect of it.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Grab your ball sacks and lynch scum before they fakeclaim. I've done it many a time and it feels

so good.

No, that won't be happening. We wanted a claim, and we threatened to move without a claim in order to force a claim, not hammer away without care.

I think you're town, Balam, and I think I got as much information out of incog with this little game of brinksminship as I'm likely to, so if you still want me to claim, I will. I don't really think it'll accomplish much at this point, though.

Equinox felt a claim was a good idea being that you've spent so much time at this point in the spotlight that a claim and dead would make you a better asset to the town then a mystery and alive and, as such, a distraction.

[Balam]

^
|

(AGar)

Damn, I was on a good streak, too.

[Lord Fonzi]

God, Fate makes me so fucking angry it's untrue.

KEEP TWSITIN ROUND AND ROUND.


All right, you want to call me scum for V/LA abuse? MAN THE FUCK UP. That's shitI would

NEVER

pull. Its low, its dirty, its cheap. I earn my wins through sweat and blood for fucks sake.


AGM's absences are REAL you fucking clowns. I made a promise at the start of the game (or an inclination at least) to try and only post joint posts. ITS NOT FUCKIN SCUMMY TO STICK TO THAT.

No-one's saying that AGM's absences are fake, you fucking douchebag. We're pointing out that you're posting when you're under attack, and not when the pressure dies down. This is 100% true. It is also true that, at different times you have used 'Well AGM wasn't here so I was posting on my own, without having to wait for him' to explain your rise in posting when you were attacked, and 'Well AGM isn't here, so I couldn't post' to explain your not posting in thread when you weren't coming under fire. I don't doubt that AGM is frequently absent, as Gurgi is; what is very dubious is the notion that your periods of inactivity due to his absence happen to coincide perfectly with whenever you weren't being attacked.

Convienent flip on Copper? I never had strong town read on him, it was always WEAK and I always believed that e was a player worthy of keeping around (For his ability to catch scum, to draw NKs, etc.)

You called him the towniest player in the game at one point. Never seems a little strong.

Now that he's still alive and hasn't done shit, YEAH ITS BOUT TIME I reveal that weak town read was a weak gut scum read.
DERP

At precisely the point a wagon on him springs up, with the potential to rival your own. Using a load of bullshit craplogic to try to tie him to the players who are most attacking you.

SHOW ME. If memory serves all Fonzi said was "tehehehe vote explain later COpper"

then when asked to explain later

">_>
<_<"

then finally

"Oh it was for lulz."

This is such a massive, scummy misrepresentation I don't even know where to start. It wasn't for lulz- I explained very clearly what the purpose of the vote was, and what it achieved. I was suspicious of Copper- people seemed to be ignoring him. I tried to engineer a situation where people were forced to comment on them. In the course of doing so, one of the possibilities for copper-scum became less likely, while you did exactly what I would have expected you to do if scum.

If you had posted AT ALL between me voting Copper and my unvote, expressed any kind of opinion either way, it might have given me pause. Whether you'd gone "I think Fonzi is scummy, but they have a point" or "OH YOU'RE GOING TO BUS ARE YOU? FINE BY ME!" or even gone 'OMG FONZ IS TRYING TO DRUM UP A BULLSHIT WAGON ON COPPER WITH NO REASONS TO DISTRACT ATTENTION FROM HIS SCUMBUDDY YOS!" it would have been useful information. Instead, you used your partner's absence as an excuse to lurk, and wait to see if I would commit to the copper wagon or return to you before giving your opinion.

How is that pushing a wagon? His vote sat there for no reason, which took advantage of my limited joint-posting habits, and then came out with a "OH LOOK FD IS LURKIN AGAIN WHEN I VOTED COPPER TROLOLOLOLOL" aka he used his vote on Copper to push MY MISLYNCH ultimately.

I didn't force you to behave scummily in response to the wagon, Fate. And you're completely ignoring the fact that

without me, there's never a copper wagon in the first place.

As for your 'OMG Fonz is a hypocrite because he's attacking me and not Copper who's behaving similarly.' Firstly, as I've said before, the player most similar to you here isn't Copper, it's FES. Since the FESwagon died down, they've hardly been a bastion of scumhunting either. Secondly, quite clearly, I do suspect Copper, as you can tell from, like, all the things I've said about Copper, him looking like coasting middle-of-the-pack scum etc.

You're just a fountain of excuses, Fate, and you act like anyone who doesn't believe your excuses can't possibly have a town motive. But the facts speak for themselves. Apart from the brief passage when you jumped off to push a town wagon you'd previously completely ignored over the top, your vote has been on the person most strongly suspecting you all damn game. Playing to survive. End of.

[Lord Fonzi]

As for the claim, it's pretty meh. It does suggest RB if Yos were to be scum. It's not confirmable. I still don't think he's particularly likely to be scum, though, at least in part because Yos never actually seems to get run up when he actually is scum, but more to the point because the case on him remains retarded. Making town reads and putting your neck on the line for them seems a pro-town thing to do in the abstract.

[Profane Confusion]

I too would like a response to Balam's question. I've always thought that the roleblocking functionality of the Jailkeeper role might be more useful to concentrate on later in the game as opposed to early in the game where the doctoring function might be more useful. With Yos claiming to have had that solid of a Pathetric town read, you would think Yos might have, ya know, actually protected Pathetric and attempted to stop an NK that way instead of trying to go about it using the roundabout roleblocking way.

your reaction was to ignore everything I said and keep trying to get me lynched

.

He's town, you're much less likely to be

.

Riiiiiiiiight

.

I can see why you might think Mastermate's reaction was townish but what about Balam's whose reaction you also claimed was townish? Why would scum not react the way Balam reacted there?

[Mastermate]

By the by, I noticed the PR softclaim, but that wasn't why I unvoted. I unvoted becuase I still wasn't sure on an opinion of YFC and Belam was getting pretty agressive so I wussed out because I wasn't happy supporting that lynch.

I soured on my read of fate very quickly when I saw that he really is as yelley as scum as he is as town. I saw someone say it earlier in the game, but I assumed it was in exaggeration. It's a little different in this game but it feels more restrained and that's easily attributable to Hydra or the fact this game has better playerlist than the one I looked at.

That claims pretty poor but it's plausible. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is that busdriver's been in vogue as a normal role for a little while now. I want to hear Yos's reasoning for those two targets. Also I'm pretty sour about the fact he messed about at claim in the way he did without a proper stopper.

Honestly I'm pissed off because it feels like someones playing me and I don't know who it is. Eh. Long night for me. Going to go plead MoS for help.

[Lord Fonzi]

To be honest, I don't like Yos' reason for suggesting Mastermate is town, same as I didn't like his point about FES and the giving warning of L-1. If Balam is town, the chance of them quickhammering is pretty slim. 'Watch out, L-1' type behaviour is something I often see from scum, because it looks townish, but doesn't actually hurt the scumteam's chances that much. (That said, MM is still town due to Unitard Brethren's attempt to break the game with QTs).

[Profane Confusion]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is that busdriver's been in vogue as a normal role for a little while now.

I assume you mean Jailkeeper? If so then yes, I think it's been fairly in vogue as a normal role for a while now.

- Incog

[YosFlavouredCayke]

So why did you target beaver over, say, pathetric? You could've easily protected your

strongest town read

rather than going half cock on the possibility of blocking the scum NK. I'm guessing you chose to go half cock on te possibility for a reason, but I'm at a loss as to your relative benefit vs reward from a town-perspective on the matter.

When you're a jailkeeper, you're generally better off trying to roleblock a scum kill then trying to doc protect a townie. The odds are close to the same same; if there's 11 people alive, you have a 1/10 chance of roleblocking the scum nightkill (1/10 because you're not going to target yourself) or 1/11 chance of doc protecting, but if you target someone you think is town, there's a fairly high risk that you might roleblock a town power role. If you target someone who is town, and there's either 1 or 2 other town power roles out of 7 other living pro-town people (assuming 3 scum, then on night 1 there were 7 pro-town people other then me), then the odds of blocking another townie's role ability are significantly higher then the odds of stopping a scum kill.

If there's a claimed mason, or a claimed vanilla townie who's cop confirmed, or something like that, then obviously that changes. Short of that, I don't think it's generally worth the risk of to target someone you have a strong town read on. Most of the time, I think jailkeeper usually works better when used mostly as a roleblocker then as a doctor.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

To be honest, I don't like Yos' reason for suggesting Mastermate is town, same as I didn't like his point about FES and the giving warning of L-1. If Balam is town, the chance of them quickhammering is pretty slim. 'Watch out, L-1' type behaviour is something I often see from scum, because it looks townish, but doesn't actually hurt the scumteam's chances that much.

Meh. When Balam basically told me to claim right away or he was going to hammer me, and then I didn't claim, I don't know what the odds of Balam hammering me at that point were, but I don't think they were zero. All Matermate would have had to do was keep his vote on me and not post for a day or so. Zero risk on his part, no one ever gets called on "not posting for a day", and if it works, lynch done, town power role dead, with Balam getting all the blame for it.

I mean, in theory, you're right; any apparent pro-town action could be made by scum trying to get town cred. In this case, though, it seems really unlikely.

(That said, MM is still town due to Unitard Brethren's attempt to break the game with QTs).

(nods) Yeah; I'll admit I was starting to have doubts about Unicorn towards the end there, but for the most part, they looked pretty town throughout.

[Mastermate]

I do, yeah, sorry. And thanks. They were both roles that I suggested to a buddy as falseclaims in the last game I was mafia in and I was pondering on the connotations of that whilst I wrote it.

@Yos: That's viable, and it's the plausible argument I wondered if you were going to make. I don't agree, I prefer defensive protection early game because it's so easy for scums to give their kills to their least suspected members to avoid RBs and Tracks, and I prefer the doc options to prevent a kill. Also because I think it's unlikely for you to actually block another town ability, but I do think I'm risking the odds a little so I agree with you there.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

your reaction was to ignore everything I said and keep trying to get me lynched

.

He's town, you're much less likely to be

.

Riiiiiiiiight

.

I can see why you might think Mastermate's reaction was townish but what about Balam's whose reaction you also claimed was townish? Why would scum not react the way Balam reacted there?

Well, I did say "moreso mastermate"; his reaction was very pro-town, balam's wasn't quite as clear. Still, at that point, Balam knew I was a pro-town power role, and I basically gave him the perfect chance to get rid of me and seem totally justified in doing so. He might have hesitated in dropping the hammer right away if he was scum, out of fear of looking bad, but I'd still expect Balam-scum to have continued to work up to a point when he could get away with it; instead he kind of backed off and gave me room to breathe. I think he wanted to see your response almost as much as i did.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

I do, yeah, sorry. And thanks. They were both roles that I suggested to a buddy as falseclaims in the last game I was mafia in and I was pondering on the connotations of that whilst I wrote it.

@Yos: That's viable, and it's the plausible argument I wondered if you were going to make. I don't agree, I prefer defensive protection early game because it's so easy for scums to give their kills to their least suspected members to avoid RBs and Tracks, and I prefer the doc options to prevent a kill. Also because I think it's unlikely for you to actually block another town ability, but I do think I'm risking the odds a little so I agree with you there.

Well, there are some other minor factors to take into account as well; there could be scum power roles, for example. Plus, there's the information factor; if I had targeted Beaver, and there had been a missing kill, I would have been about 80% sure that I had prevented the scum kill by roleblocked him, since there's very little chance of scum trying to kill Beaver night 1. On the other hand, if I targeted someone who looked pro-town and there's a missing kill, it doesn't really tell me anything solid (precisely because of the "scum tend to give the kill to their least suspected members" factor).

I will also say that I wasn't really expecting the scum to try to kill Ether. People forget, she had a 3 man bandwagon voting for her at one point on day 1, and after she basically pushed through a mislynch at the end of the day, I was expecting the scum to try to lynch her on day 2.

[Profane Confusion]

Yos, have you ever been a JK before? If so, link to the game.

- Incog

[Profane Confusion]

I don't buy YFC's claim and I don't buy that he's town. I think the JK claim is a fishing expedition and a convenient claim for a scum rb. Also, the claim just doesn't make sense.

So YFC thinks that a jailkeeper is better off trying to prevent a scum nk by targeting scum than by protecting. Thus, it can be assumed he must have had a scum read on us Day 1 since he targeted BW, our predecessor, N1. However, if you look at his voting patterns, YFC votes FD up until deadline is at hand, and then he switches to UB. He never votes for our slot until Day 2 - after he targeted us. Furthermore, if you go through his iso, he mentions us twice - once in ISO 17, where he accuses us of being lurkerscum and once in ISO 31, where he says we're mason-fishing and defends against arguments made by BW. That's it, over all of day 1. In the same ISO 17 where he says we're lurkerscum, he says that he has an outright scumread on FD. So why would town JK YFC choose to target us over FD in hopes of preventing a scum nk night 1?

Yeah, I didn't think he would either.

-smarg