Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[farside22]

I have a question that i would like Rhinox to answer only.

Rhinox: At the end of the day who would you think TS would investigated?

[Twistedspoon]

Cop sanity is guaranteed in normals.

*bangs head against desk*

but you were the one arguing I could be insane only a few pages ago

[farside22]

TS: I asked you a question.

TS: Have you ever seen a day vig in a game before?

[neil1113]

Vote Count #4:
Day Two

Necessary Evil

(4): Twistedspoon, Rhinox, Erratus Apathos, Quilford

Twistedspoon

(2): Necessary Evil, Farside22

Duplicity

(0):

Erratus Apathos

(0):

Quilford

(0):

Prosaurus

(0):

Javert

(0):

Rhinox

(0):

Maxous

(0):

farside22

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

(5): Maxous, Javert, Prosaurus, Duplicity,

V/LA

(0):

Prodding:

(1): (Still searching for Erratus Apathos replacement!)

With

10

alive, it takes

6

to lynch.

Deadline

for

Day 2

is

6:00pm EST 05/05/11.

[Rhinox]

Once again, why are you trying to rush through the day? Why do I have to be lynched right now?

OMG classic scum tactic here - scum investigates as guilty, accuse attackers of trying to "rush through the day" to attempt to discredit them.

I think you're scum and there's virtually no way I'm voting anyone else today regardless of what is said. I see nothing wrong with lynching scum now. Its not rushing and its not too early.

How is it different. What differences are they?

bc I saw what maxous pointed out in #644: TS obviously wasn't trying to cover his ass, but you're twisting his quotes to make it out to seem like he is. Its all in the quote:

so unless you can

prove that the mafioso have a framer or I am an insane cop without knowing so

then you're mafioso

and then TS points out that all cops are sane in normals, which implies he does not believe it is possible he is insane.

which TS is saying exactly: unless NE can prove there's a framer or TS is insane, then NE is mafia.

Sounds to me like TS is pretty certain of his result and not trying to leave loopholes.

But you did say it was a town-tell

I never said TS was town specifically because of his result. I was leaning town on TS after his 1-shot cop claim.

What do you make out of TwistedSpoon claiming he believed Ender due to it being a "One-shot" themed game when Ender was the only person who had claimed a One Shot role?

No offence to Twistedspoon but it would be serious quick thinking to do this in the next post

2 minutes

after Ender's claim.

Anyone who thinks TS is scum after this is also scum.

Getting bad vibes from farside.

^^^ This is an excellent point!!

I have a question that i would like Rhinox to answer only.

Rhinox: At the end of the day who would you think TS would investigated?

Looking back at TS's iso, I would have assumed it would be one of prosaurus or oso, based on this statement:

prosaurus

and

Oso

are wildcards for me today. I'll give them a pass

Why do you ask?

[Twistedspoon]

I investigated NE because through all of D1 i suspected him. My vote was on him for most of the day

indeed, I was dissapointed we didn't lynch him and wanted to make sure we'd lynch him today if he truly was scum

I find it rather interesting that farside is coming under more fire than (almost) confirmed scum, NE.

TS: I asked you a question.

TS: Have you ever seen a day vig in a game before?

In a mini-normal, no

In a mini theme (execution mafia) I encountered a similar role that went by the name of town executioner who had a similar ability

does this answer your question?

[Duplicity]

G, the other head of this hydra stated interest in taking part in this game to me last night, he's catching up at the current moment and I'm going to refrain from posting too much until I've had a good chance to discuss reads with him. We should have our collective thoughts on the matter up quite soon though.

With that said the fact that Twisted soft-claimed two minutes after Ender outright claimed seems more of a scum-tell than anything else honestly. The thought process of "Someone has claimed my role, I should post saying I believe there's a one-shot theme in this game" rather than thinking over the claim or the likelyhood of two exact roles co-existing in the setup seems heavily flawed.

[Twistedspoon]

The thought process of "Someone has claimed my role, I should post saying I believe there's a one-shot theme in this game" rather than thinking over the claim or the likelyhood of two exact roles co-existing in the setup seems heavily flawed.

why does it?

Day vig's rarely have more than one shot (see my last post regarding day-vigs. He had one-shot too)

ender had claimed one-shot

I was one-shot

Therefore I saw a one-shot theme

problem?

[Duplicity]

problem?

I for one have never seen a setup that involved two cops, or two one shot cops, due to your lack of experience at this site I'm betting this is the case for you as well. Therefore seeing a double-role-claim occur natural instinct would be to doubt it, this you didn't do at all.

[Twistedspoon]

Therefore seeing a double-role-claim occur natural instinct would be to doubt it, this you didn't do at all.

I didn't doubt his claim

i thought it unlikely that he would be able to fake-claim the exact same role as me

I asked him questions about his role to check if it was the same as mine

so you have one investigation eh? do you use it at night or day?

i can see a theme in this game, that everything is one-shot :/

so yeah, I didn't doubt his claim and didn't see why not too

problem?

I for one have never seen a setup that involved two cops, or two one shot cops,

I agree that 2 cops seems odd

however I don't see why 2 one-shot cops would be so unreasonable, so I didn't doubt ender's claim for that too

[Maxous]

There's no reason for him to think that there is a framer, or for anybody else to think that. Cop sanity is guaranteed in normals. TS was expressing doubt in his guilty result to give him an out. When I flip town, he'll insist that there is a framer or something that altered his result. He knows he'll be lynched if he doesn't give himself some kind of out.

He did'nt express doubt about the result.

Do you have any reason to think there is a framer? Does anybody? How do you suggest we explore this possibility?

Well I don't have a reason to but there was no point in rushing into a lynch without exploring the possibility. We're not short on time.

The only way to explore the possibiltiy is seeing if there is enough reasonable doubt about yourself being mafia

[Twistedspoon]

The only way to explore the possibiltiy is seeing if there is enough reasonable doubt about yourself being mafia

no reasonable doubt here

[Necessary Evil]

Cop sanity is guaranteed in normals.

*bangs head against desk*

but you were the one arguing I could be insane only a few pages ago

What??? When? Where?

Once again, why are you trying to rush through the day? Why do I have to be lynched right now?

OMG classic scum tactic here - scum investigates as guilty, accuse attackers of trying to "rush through the day" to attempt to discredit them.

I think you're scum and there's virtually no way I'm voting anyone else today regardless of what is said. I see nothing wrong with lynching scum now. Its not rushing and its not too early.

It's bad to rush through the day because nobody who is currently voting for me is bothering to think through following TS today. You will notice, for example, that nobody has answered the question

how can scum TS survive without claiming a guilty?

Everybody should note how Rhinox is telling us that he's willing to shut his brain off and not only blindly follow someone who he was sure was scum, but to delcare him obvtown before I've even flipped:

I understand now, ender.

unvote, vote Twistedspoon

I suggest we park a noose around Twistedscum's neck.

Agreed.

Why say this, then not follow up with Maxous questions to you?
Instead you go back to TS as scum. What reason do you believe TS is scum?

Because Maxous was confused (or I am). This is what Maxous said:

@Rhinox: Because you called Ender an 'easy target' for scum to go after, but you never said who the scum are. Who is the opportunistic mafia?
TS was'nt voting for him(I think?)

But I didn't vote TS for being opportunistic, I voted TS for other reasons. I made a comment that ender was an easy target, but I wasn't ready to examine the ender wagon yet and look for if there was any opportunistic scum there or not (some town players lock on to easy wagons too!). I wanted to focus on TS, but max seems to think or imply that my TS vote doesn't make sense because it doesn't stem from the easy target ender premise. But rather it stems from the role speculating premise mentioned a few posts before.

I think you hit most of the reasons why I believe TS is scum in a later post.

[...]

These are iso 11-17. I dont see anything scummy here. Asking whether the investigation is night or day, i think is a good question, unlike asking if he was one-shot. He asked Javert why his claim occurred at that time, which is a fair question.


That's all of substance i could find in these. Rhinox, would you mind explaining to me why you pointed out these posts?

So you don't see #12 as role fishing, or how about

#16: To a townie, whether a 1-shot investigation is day or night doesn't matter, but to a scum role blocker for example, it would be beneficial to know.

(bolded to stand out for importance). And all the other speculating in every one of those posts is in itself a form of indirect role fishing, even 14 where he accuses someone else of role fishing then says "what did you expect etc..." it says A) he's already been thinking about what enders softclaim meant and pointed it out in thread and B) answering the "What did you expect" question just leads to more role speculation all around.

Here's my favorite post of yours:

I'm just slightly reluctant though. We've already outed 2 PRs today. I don't want a 3rd claim unless you guys think It's absolutely necessary that I do

Then I shall willingly do so

lol. I don't care what your claim is now. This post is scummy as hell.

You're scum and I want you lynched regardless of your claim.

But, hey, TS claims a guilty, so I guess his obvscum status doesn't matter anymore. We should lynch an innocent today and give TS another pass tomorrow when he insists there must have been a framer.

Seriously, why are none of you thinking this through?

There's no reason for him to think that there is a framer, or for anybody else to think that. Cop sanity is guaranteed in normals. TS was expressing doubt in his guilty result to give him an out. When I flip town, he'll insist that there is a framer or something that altered his result. He knows he'll be lynched if he doesn't give himself some kind of out.

He did'nt express doubt about the result.

Why did TS suggest that there might be a framer or that he might be insane? What does he gain? What does that do for the town?

Do you have any reason to think there is a framer? Does anybody? How do you suggest we explore this possibility?

Well I don't have a reason to but there was no point in rushing into a lynch without exploring the possibility. We're not short on time.

The only way to explore the possibiltiy is seeing if there is enough reasonable doubt about yourself being mafia

Yeah, keep playing both sides of the issue and not-so-subtly supporting the idea that there is a framer. That'll totally work for you and your scumbuddy TS.

[Prosaurus]

@NE We are thinking it through. Just because he acted scummy, doesn't mean we should believe you, because you were acting scummy too.

[Erratus Apathos]

It's bad to rush through the day because nobody who is currently voting for me is bothering to think through following TS today.

Everybody should note how Rhinox is telling us that he's willing to shut his brain off and not only blindly follow someone who he was sure was scum, but to delcare him obvtown before I've even flipped

Seriously, why are none of you thinking this through?

I wish I could stay in this game just so I could think of imaginative new ways to express how confirmed my vote is.

This is not the ragey, gut-reaction insulting that townies often do. This is the scummy-type of insulting: deny that there even is a case on you and call everyone on it stupid/sheep. His remark on Rhinox is especially scummy. Rhinox's flip flop on TS is not "shutting his brain off" or "blindly following someone". Just the opposite in fact, it shows he's considering new evidence, rather than mindlessly tunneling. NE paints him as stupid though, in the hopes that others will dismiss his arguments. This is a scum tactic, and NE is totally scum.

Why did TS suggest that there might be a framer or that he might be insane? What does he gain? What does that do for the town?

He acknowledged those things to show why he dismissed them as unlikely, and thus why everyone else should as well. What does he gain from not bringing them up at all? If he doesn't, someone else will, so he may as well get his opinion out first.

Not sure whoever replaces me will care what I think, but just in case they do, I'm thinking NE/Duplicity/Farside scumteam. Everyone outside that group reads town to me.

[Duplicity]

This is not the ragey, gut-reaction insulting that townies often do. This is the scummy-type of insulting: deny that there even is a case on you and call everyone on it stupid/sheep. His remark on Rhinox is especially scummy. Rhinox's flip flop on TS is not "shutting his brain off" or "blindly following someone". Just the opposite in fact, it shows he's considering new evidence, rather than mindlessly tunneling. NE paints him as stupid though, in the hopes that others will dismiss his arguments. This is a scum tactic, and NE is totally scum.

I can see what you're saying here and I do agree NE's reaction and defence to the guilty seems emotionless which is incredibly off given the situation though I don't believe that changes TS's previous actions indication of his allignment.

Although this suggestion may sound insane because it would be horrible scum play but do you believe this could potentially be a buss?

[Twistedspoon]

Although this suggestion may sound insane because it would be horrible scum play but do you believe this could potentially be a buss?

What do you make out of TwistedSpoon claiming he believed Ender due to it being a "One-shot" themed game when Ender was the only person who had claimed a One Shot role?

No offence to Twistedspoon but it would be serious quick thinking to do this in the next post

2 minutes

after Ender's claim.

what's so hard to believe about a cop getting a guilty?
That's exactly what I did and all I've done

NE is scum. fin

[Duplicity]

what's so hard to believe about a cop getting a guilty?
That's exactly what I did and all I've done

1. The fact that you instantly believed Enders claim rather than taking time to think it over.
2. The fact that when even when you believed his claim you did nothing to prevent him from getting voted, lynched or vig shot.
3. The fact you showed close to no care over what lynch was going to go through yesterday.
4. The fact that you state you had a strong scum read on NE and then checked him, if your read on him was strong you have no need to reaffirm your suspicions, you would check someone you're unsure about.
5. The fact you're attempting to use the why isn't he lynched yet card when you can see how very clearly this isn't an easy choice given both of your play throughout the game.
6. The fact you haven't once attempting to state alternate reads or judge peoples opinions on believeing you or not. If you are indeed a one-shot cop likelyhood is that you die tonight, you seem to have no care in the world that your death is impending whereas a townie would be doing everything they can while still alive.

[Twistedspoon]

what's so hard to believe about a cop getting a guilty?
That's exactly what I did and all I've done

1. The fact that you instantly believed Enders claim rather than taking time to think it over.
2. The fact that when even when you believed his claim you did nothing to prevent him from getting voted, lynched or vig shot.
3. The fact you showed close to no care over what lynch was going to go through yesterday.
4. The fact that you state you had a strong scum read on NE and then checked him, if your read on him was strong you have no need to reaffirm your suspicions, you would check someone you're unsure about.
5. The fact you're attempting to use the why isn't he lynched yet card when you can see how very clearly this isn't an easy choice given both of your play throughout the game.
6. The fact you haven't once attempting to state alternate reads or judge peoples opinions on believeing you or not. If you are indeed a one-shot cop likelyhood is that you die tonight, you seem to have no care in the world that your death is impending whereas a townie would be doing everything they can while still alive.

1) I've explained that in my last post addressed to you
2) I claimed and from that point it was obvious to the whole town that we had the same roles. What more could I do?
3) I did care. I stated the whole time I wanted an NE lynch and still do
4) I investigated hi so we could get this scum lynched today. If i didn't investigate him he might never have died
5) ?
6) this is true, but what's to say scum will kill me over other confirmed townies such as Javert or Quilford? Any of us 3 could die

[Maxous]

Although this suggestion may sound insane because it would be horrible scum play but do you believe this could potentially be a buss?

Why would it be horrible scum play?

5. The fact you're attempting to use the why isn't he lynched yet card when you can see how very clearly this isn't an easy choice given both of your play throughout the game.

Why is'nt it an easy choice?
Do you think Neccessary Evil has acted suspicious then?

[Duplicity]

1. Your explanation comes down to you stating you questioned him about it which I barely see being the case.
2. What do you mean what more could you do? You could have stated openely that you were sure he was town and not to have the lynch between him/you which at the time would have been town/town to you.
3. I'll wait for G's opinion on this point, but from what I saw this really isn't the case.
4. I can see that this is indeed a null-tell.
5. The attitude of each of your posts are 'why isn't he lynched yet' not I should attempt to explain the case towards him.
6. Doesn't matter if you think there's a chance that you might live, the high likelyhood of you dying should be enough to force you into participating more.

Maxous, it would be horrible play because it would mean one of them having to explain the reasoning behind them still being alive close to end game. On top of that if the interaction during the buss is even slightly of enough leadway is given for town to have a chance to catch two mafia. Yes, I do indeed believe NE's defence has been suspicious, I stated so earlier.

[Necessary Evil]

I'm just going to keep posting this until people start answering it:

How could TS survive today without claiming a guilty?

The fact that I've posted this question twice and nobody has answered it is proof that none of you are thinking this through. Oh, and what is this case on me that I can't seem to find anywhere? You're all just sheeping the scummiest player. Awful, awful play from all of you. You should be ashamed!

[farside22]

Rhinox: I asked because you stated you believed with the PR's from day 1 that scum would have a RB. I figured that TS with his day 1 constant point against NE that if NE was scum why would scum take a chance and not RB him in the first place?

Ohhh i just skimmed a bit on something but did Rhinox just say he thought TS was town at the end of day 1?

....


Ah here we go

I never said TS was town specifically because of his result. I was leaning town on TS after his 1-shot cop claim.

I don't believe you did

*note research Rhinox next

Also TS: I'm assuming the vig in the game you were in was a 1 shot day vig???

[Erratus Apathos]

I'm just going to keep posting this until people start answering it:

How could TS survive today without claiming a guilty?

The fact that I've posted this question twice and nobody has answered it is proof that none of you are thinking this through. Oh, and what is this case on me that I can't seem to find anywhere? You're all just sheeping the scummiest player. Awful, awful play from all of you. You should be ashamed!

IF WE LYNCH NE BEFORE I SHUT MY INTERNET OFF, I WILL LOVE YOU ALL FOREVER

[Twistedspoon]

Also TS: I'm assuming the vig in the game you were in was a 1 shot day vig???

sorta

he had restrictions on when he could shoot, but that's what his role would classify as