Open 302: JUNGLE REPUB nope game over! Party time!

[neil1113]

511. Confirm.

So we're going against the Ugly Hairy Creatures, and the Dumb Mafia Dropouts that never got anywhere in life? Got it. This should be easy.

[neil1113]

I think it would also be a good idea for the seer to counterclaim if it is the day before LyLo as well. Am I wrong?

I haven't mulled over specifics but probably even if it was all 'Not Werewolf' results. That said there is some level of difficulty in determining exactly when said day is since there are two discrete anti-Town factions.

Can't you just look at it as though it's 4 Evil - 8 Good? 2 Mafia, 2 Werewolves, and 8 Towns

men

sheep? I think it'd be a lot easier to recognize that way, wouldn't it?

[neil1113]

@neil1113 - First of all, there are three Mafia, so five scum in total. Secondly, we can't consider them as one group, because the scum outnumbering town isn't necessarily a LyLo situation (e.g. 3 Mafia, 2 Werewolves, 4 Town).

3 Mafia??? Oh wow. So does that mean if Town loses two people, Mafia and Werewolves win? Or are Mafia and Werewolves going against each other too? If so, why exactly would make Ly-Lo? Sorry, I'm a little more new to this style.

[neil1113]

Yeah I think I've got it now Caboose. I just made the mistake not looking this up. Like I didn't realize that nobody has a kill either!

[neil1113]

I see no problem with voting now

VOTE: neil

first thing I'd do as mafia would be to get the knowledge of my own faction wrong

also, I remember you requesting in the open queue to be in a killing faction. That's evidence for both mafioso and werewolf and pretty good so far considering we haven't officially started yet

Wait, but I also thought that the roles are random? So this couldn't actually be a probable concern.

Also, 8 months on this site yes, but I've never played in a game with two Mafia's. I've played in Normal and in Newbie games. And yes, Werewolves do have kills. Sorry, I misspoke.

[neil1113]

Vote: Neil

This, for the record, is Emp's playing style. He posts short posts, no real cases, and hops on easy bandwagons. Just for future reference for all those in the game, I'm playing another game that's currently open with him in it, and he's following his meta playing style. Pushing him in that game to play with MORE words worked.. albeit slightly better (Posts went from: "vote:you" to "vote: you for rolefishing"), maybe it will in this game.

VOTE: Empking

[neil1113]

Sloth,

Yes I do find votes with no explanations scummy (except obviously, when you're in the RVS stage)...

and Yes I do know that I'm wagoning. But there still needs to be 4 other votes before a lynch happens, so I'm not worried about a mislynch right now.

[neil1113]

What’s the scum hunting purpose in this question?

Niel

explicitly said that pushing (aka pressuring) Empking might produce more content. He was fully aware he was wagoning.

Ahem...

Neil

[neil1113]

Neil: Don't talk about on-going games.

I have not talked about on-going games. I simply mentioned I was IN on-going games. No rule about that?

Everyone: What alignment is of afraid 1 (one) vote that they wagon the largest wagon and try and discredit the person voting them?

If I read correctly, you're asking "What alignment is someone, who jumps on the largest wagon, while trying to discredit the person voting them?" And if I read correctly, this is your attempt at casting suspicion onto me? Unfortunately, I've explained why I'm on the wagon, so I didn't just "wagon" on the wagon. I had full intention before the game even began to vote you. When the wagon started forming, it already helped my original plans to start the day. And I'm not discrediting your case, as you have no case to discredit. In all reality, it's almost

impossible

to have a case when the person you're accusing has only posted 1 time before your post...

[neil1113]

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this conversation... VI Title is totally deserving here.

Yes there is. Its this rule:
Don't talk about on-going games.

*sigh*. I have not talked about on-going games. I simply mentioned I was IN on-going games.

There is no rule where saying that you are participating in other games.

And to prove it:

Mod: Is it against the rules to say you are participating in a game with someone? Or is the rule there to prohibit talk about the game activities INSIDE the game?

Next.

When did I say that you were discrediting my case? Why the strawman?

Everyone: What alignment is of afraid 1 (one) vote that they wagon the largest wagon and try

and discredit the person voting them

?

In order to vote someone you must have a case. So essentially, to discredit you, would be to discredit your case. Also:

Strawman Argument: A fallacy based on misrepresenting an opponent's position.

That was not misrepresenting. I'm discrediting you, therefore I'm discrediting your case (or lack thereof). I just skipped to the main point.

Next.

Ah, the well known fact that scum are always honest about their intent :roll:Could you get any scummier?

Can you ask a valid question? Or do you enjoy asking questions that cannot be answered? If you don't think I'm honest, say it. Don't dance around the issue. And unless you can give valid reasoning as to why I'd lie just to bandwagon on you, you really have nothing to base that opinion on and then you just begin tunneling. Which, on this occasion, is anti-town.

Next.

I had full intention before the game even began to vote you.

So I'm sure you wouldn't mind providing evidence of that effect, would you?

If I could, I would. I can't provide evidence to this. I simply stated a fact. Is that scummy too?

Next.

Everyone: What alignment is so afraid of 1 (one) vote that they wagon the largest wagon and try and discredit the person voting them? And then when called out for it just strawmnan the argument?

1. Trust me, I'm NOT afraid of your vote. 2. The largest wagon? 2 votes? Hmm. 3. I

tried

to discredit you? So are you saying my

attempt at discrediting you

was a lie? Prove to me that this isn't your Meta. And I'll prove to you that it is. It's not so hard to do on my side. I bet it is on yours. I didn't try to discredit you, I simply stated fact. And that fact, or should I say essentially, YOU, discredited yourself.

Next?

[neil1113]

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this conversation...

Extremely scummy AtE.

Funniest thing of it all, I was right. And unless you can prove that I was attempting to appeal to ones emotions, this is very wrong categorizing.

So can I presume that you don't consider Ad Hom to be a logical fallacy?

If you can name one time I've personally insulted you, feel free to call me out for Ad-Homing. Village Idiot is the only thing closest I can consider, and that's a MS Description of a MS Players Playing Style. Not a personal insult. If you can't see the difference, there's no point in discussing this any further.

This is scum simply making frustrating noise. Does anybody actually think that neil isn't familiar with the idea of rhetorical questions?

I was emphasizing the lack of discussion you were actually producing, and how in your own words, you were just making "noise." Did I ever say it wasn't rhetorical, or hint that I didn't understand that?

If you don't think I'm honest, say it. Don't dance around the issue. And unless you can give valid reasoning as to why I'd lie just to bandwagon on you, you really have nothing to base that opinion on and then you just begin tunneling. Which, on this occasion, is anti-town.

You mean a valid reason like your being nervous of the single vote?

Wow. Not only did you not even give a valid response, but you accuse me of being scared and nervous? Hmm. Alrighty then. You show me one game where you've lead a leading wagon, and convinced others to jump on board, and then I'll listen. Otherwise, according to your Meta, I have nothing to be afraid of.

Yes. Essentialy you added noise for no other reason than you thought it would make you look town.

Funny how you seem to be doing the exact thing you accuse me of?

1. Trust me, I'm NOT afraid of your vote.

So I'm sure you'll back that up with some evidence.

Like I said, prove to me I'm afraid, and I'll prove to you that I'm not. Burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused.

2. The largest wagon? 2 votes? Hmm.

You don't think it was the largest wagon.

I didn't say that. Just shocked you'd make it out to be such a big wagon, when you're not really in danger of a lynch. And considering the circumstance, you seem to be the one fearful of the wagon, as you keep bringing it up! You're just hypocritical with your phrasings today aren't you?

3. I

tried

to discredit you? So are you saying my

attempt at discrediting you

was a lie? Prove to me that this isn't your Meta. And I'll prove to you that it is. It's not so hard to do on my side. I bet it is on yours. I didn't try to discredit you, I simply stated fact. And that fact, or should I say essentially, YOU, discredited yourself.

LOL

So you were just stating a fact with complete disinterest? Its sheer coincidence that the person you simply stated a fact about was the person voting you?

Why do I doubt that?

Again, no response. Again, just making noise. Again, hypocritical. Hmm.

You can't accuse me of discrediting you because I pointed out your playing style? You discredited yourself. I just pointed it out. That's not my problem.

[neil1113]

Ahem... Neil

That was a typo I missed. My mistake.

That said if you are going to get bent out of shape with having your name spelled wrong on occasion here on MS you are probably in for lots of frustration.

I wasn't really bent out of shape, or angry, or upset with you? Just simply correcting you.

*sigh*. I have not talked about on-going games. I simply mentioned I was IN on-going games. There is no rule where saying that you are participating in other games.

I’m not the Mod but I’ll answer – referencing any ongoing game of any sorts including mentioning who you are playing with are forbidden site-wide.

Ah, see this is where I disagree. I believe I've done it before, and I've seen it done before, where this same issue was brought up, and it was agreed upon by the Mod that it was not a problem to be mentioning it? If it is a problem, I'm sorry and I'll stop. I don't mean to be rebellious to the rules. I just don't think the rule specifically talks about that, and if it does, why would mentioning someone you're in a game with matter to the game at hand? I could understood if I said "Yeah, this game in which I'm town/scum in was going on.." or gave any details of the game itself out, but just to mention the very game without giving away any details or anything? I just don't see the harm in it, that would warrant such a rule. That's why I asked the Mod.

[neil1113]

if this game had only one scum faction I'd be tempted to say one of neil/empking/magna has to be scum after these interactions

Care to expound? Or do you just like stopping by, saying "one of these guys could be scum! Wait, maybe not?" and then leaving?

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this conversation...

Why did you say this?

It's funny how hard it is for you to comprehend a single sentence. Here, let me go into detail for you.

1 (You're inability to actually make cases based off of your Meta) + 1 (You're Village Idiot playing style, again based off of your Meta and already proven here) + 1 (The idea of arguing with someone that doesn't usually make sense, and doesn't usually have valid points) = 3 (The idea that I'm probably going to regret conversing with the above description of a person.) I could've been wrong, sure! But, you've now proven me right.

Misrep. (you can try to discredit somebody based off anything it need not be an insult.)

Ad-Hom: An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument toward the person" or "argument against the person"), is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.

Which part of this conversation is an argument based off of a characteristic or belief that I have about you? Can you point that out? We have not been arguing the validity of your Meta, I've pointed it out, and you've shut up about it. You're problem, is that I'm seeing you scummy based on your response to it. But you seem to think I was convinced you were scum before the vote, and THAT'S why I voted.. The problem with this view, is that I already laid out why I voted for you. I never once call you scum, until you started responding. Then I started describing your actions as scummy.

(What I actually said:) The largest wagon? 2 votes? Hmm.

(You taking it out of context:) You don't think it was the largest wagon.

(According to the context in which you quoted me:) I didn't say that.

What bull.

Now just to be clear, you're accusing me of lying correct? Before I respond, I'd like to know what exactly you're accusation here is?

I can see why MOI has such a high scum win rate. Pretty clever plan of you two.

Just a question: You think if you can catch us as scum, a few pages into the game, when it first starts, that we'd have a GOOD scum win rate? Really? What logical sense does that make? Are you really that much better then every other person we've ever played with, that you could catch us in such short notice? Think about it...

So you were just stating a fact with complete disinterest? Its sheer coincidence that the person you simply stated a fact about was the person voting you?

Y or N?
Its not difficult.

Lol Emp. You've yet to respond to my points. But 1. No, I was stating a fact for the purpose of this game, so that people have an idea of your playing style before you start with your VI tendencies. 2. No it's not sheer coincidence, it was funny coincidence, as my whole first post of the game concerning you, you happened to prove my point before I even posted it. So thanks. Now respond to my post, properly please?

"Its not difficult."

[neil1113]

No it's not sheer coincidence

it was funny coincidence

Sheer means nothing anbd funny is irrelevant in this context. Which one was it?

... "it was funny coincidence." I don't understand why you would ask which one it was? That's pretty clear?

You think if you can catch us as scum, a few pages into the game, when it first starts, that we'd have a GOOD scum win rate?

1. You botched it.
2. MOI will still go on to win.

Lol okay.

Now just to be clear, you're accusing me of lying correct? Before I respond, I'd like to know what exactly you're accusation here is?

No I'm accusing you of deliberately trying to screw over the town by adding stuff like "?" so you can can say you didn't actually say something when we both knew what you meant.

So you're not accusing me of lying. Okay.

Which part of this conversation is an argument based off of a characteristic or belief that I have about you?

You were pretty clear that you poisoning the well against me in order to defend yourself.

I had no reason to "defend" myself, because you had (and still have) no case?

P-Edit: I've already addressed that question. Twice now.

[neil1113]

Twisted: All multiple scum teams means it that while neil and MOI are still ceratainally scum, I may be part of the other scum team.

I'm going to pull a question out of your book now. You think it's coincidence that the two people you're just "so absolutely sure" are scum that you're ready to go tell the world, are the two that are pushing the hardest on your wagon?

"Why is it I don't believe that?"

[neil1113]

Sorry, mis-spoke. Only addressed it one time... in the only post I had since you posted that. Ironic you said I was specifically ignoring it, as though I had skipped over it multiple times. The first post I did in response to you I addressed it:

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this conversation...

Why did you say this?

It's funny how hard it is for you to comprehend a single sentence. Here, let me go into detail for you.

1 (You're inability to actually make cases based off of your Meta) + 1 (You're Village Idiot playing style, again based off of your Meta and already proven here) + 1 (The idea of arguing with someone that doesn't usually make sense, and doesn't usually have valid points) = 3 (The idea that I'm probably going to regret conversing with the above description of a person.) I could've been wrong, sure! But, you've now proven me right.

[neil1113]

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this conversation...

Why did you

say

this?

I think you deliberately refused to answer this. I've bolded it now so you can give it another go.

Twisted: All multiple scum teams means it that while neil and MOI are still ceratainally scum, I may be part of the other scum team.

Now can you answer this?

Seriously? I'll break down my answer for you then.

1 (You're inability to actually make cases based off of your Meta)

= This is a reason in which why I

SAID

it.

+ 1 (You're Village Idiot playing style, again based off of your Meta and already proven here)

= This is another reason, in which I

SAID

it.

+ 1 (The idea of arguing with someone that doesn't usually make sense, and doesn't usually have valid points)

= This is... can you guess? If you guessed another reason in which I said it, you'd be correct!

= 3 (The idea that I'm probably going to regret conversing with the above description of a person.) I could've been wrong, sure! But, you've now proven me right.

And this, is the conclusion in which why I would regret it. Simple enough for you? Or do you want to ask it for a 4th time?

[neil1113]

@Mod: Thank you, my points been proven.

Emp: You're purposely playing as a joke aren't you? My "outrageous" AtE which by the way, you conveniently ignored when I asked you to prove that it was an AtE, and refusing to answer a question, in which I've now answered twice, given you the post in which I answered once, and even went into specific detail, breaking down the post for you so you can understand? I think you're purposely playing as a joke and I have no desire to continue this.

Now I'm completely confident in my vote for this anti-town character.

[neil1113]

@Mod: Thank you, my points been proven.

Really? Do you just not care about your point (which was there so you could fake-distance from MOI) or did you fail to see "or people's play in that game"?

I didn't comment on your play in THAT game specifically. I commented on your play in general, while in the same context, saying I was in a game with you. That's your Meta, so people can easily assume if that's how you play normally, that's how you're playing in my game too. And that's how you're obviously playing here, with your pathetic attempt at making cases.

AtE, AtE, AtE.

This is why I don't make much effort in my response to you. Because you have no case to respond to. When you can point out which is the appeal to emotion, and how it's appealing to said emotion, then we'll talk. You've yet to do it the first time I asked, or the second time I asked, so I don't really expect you to do it here either.

[neil1113]

I'll give you a hint: You see that box above the abbreviation AtE which has some of your words in it? Those words are the AtE.

Also, what happened to "I think you're purposely playing as a joke and I have no desire to continue this."? You weren't just saying it for sympathy, were you!?!

Now you're just trying (failing) to get me frustrated. That's cool. Once you're lynched and flip scum, I'll be getting the last laugh in this game though.

[neil1113]

I'll give you a hint: You see that box above the abbreviation AtE which has some of your words in it? Those words are the AtE.

Also, what happened to "I think you're purposely playing as a joke and I have no desire to continue this."? You weren't just saying it for sympathy, were you!?!

Now you're just trying (failing) to get me frustrated.

Can I presume by your refusal to answer the question that you were just playing for sympathy? I can I presume that you still are by your obviously insincere comments?

You may presume what you'd like.

[neil1113]

Does anyone else find it particularly hard to understand Emp sometimes?

[neil1113]

Please tell me everyone else realizes that everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him? Ugh, this is sad. Deity, it'd be nice though if you read through the cases, read through his posts, and developed your own, unique case...

[neil1113]

Please tell me everyone else realizes that everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him?

You mean like Wicked?

Muffin: What do you think of neil's insistence that he challenged me before I voted him? Kind of makes it clear that he's scum, right?

So now you're trying to buddy with Muffin and get him on your side? Lol.

And I'm not insisting that I challenged you before you voted for me? When have I said that?

[neil1113]

Please tell me everyone else realizes that everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him?

You mean like Wicked?

Muffin: What do you think of neil's insistence that he challenged me before I voted him? Kind of makes it clear that he's scum, right?

So now you're trying to buddy with Muffin and get him on your side? Lol.

Its called scumhunting and getting reads on people. Maybe you'd like to try it?

And I'm not insisting that I challenged you before you voted for me? When have I said that?

Wicked: What do you think of neil's habit of writing statements where everything is implied rather than said and as such gives him plausible deniability?

MOI: What do you think about the fact that neil doesn't seem to have any desire to scumhunt?

Lol. Wow. Enough said. I've caught scum. You. You're intentionally leading with your questions, putting a thought into their mind by telling them a view, rather then pointing out facts and asking their opinion of an actual fact. What reason would a townsman have to do this?

[neil1113]

1. Hopping onto a wagon is the same thing as catching scum nowadays? That's new.
2. There is only one scum in this game, is there?

1. Developing a wagon, and finding that person to be scummy, yes. RVS votes, into an ACTUAL wagon, yes. Catching scum amongst the midst of that like you, yes. It's catching scum.

2. Of course not, but because you continue to misrep and continue this dreaded attempt at making me look scummy by twisting and stretching things about me, nobody else has really said anything. So until people start getting involved, I can't get reads or question anyone else? So until then, I'll continue to further the case of how scummy you are, by watching your scum-tells that you're releasing by the bucket.

You're intentionally leading with your questions, putting a thought into their mind by telling them a view, rather then pointing out facts and asking their opinion of an actual fact.

Care to give an example?

Sure... let's see.

From most recent:

cj: Scum only care about finding one mis-lynch a day. neil only want to find one player that he wants to be lynched. What are your thoughts on that?

Prove that I have ever said "I only want to find one player lynched"? Hint, you can't because I haven't said that. Nobody else has talked, like I pointed out above. So until then, you're the scummiest, therefore I'm gunning for you. When people start talking, my reads will start growing of everybody else.

What do you think about the fact that neil doesn't seem to have any desire to scumhunt?

Since when was I not scum hunting? I'm scum hunting, and I'm finding you scummy. Just because I'm scum hunting and my current focus is YOU doesn't mean I'm not scum hunting.

What do you think of neil's habit of writing statements where everything is implied rather than said and as such gives him plausible deniability?

"Statements." Key word. Give me two times in which I've implied something, and not said it straight up? Otherwise, you're leading.

What do you think of neil's insistence that he challenged me before I voted him? Kind of makes it clear that he's scum, right?

I called you out on this earlier, and you gave me no response. Show me one example in which I've stated I challenged you before you voted me?

And then the beginning:

What alignment is so afraid of 1 (one) vote that they wagon the largest wagon and try and discredit the person voting them? And then when called out for it just strawmnan the argument?

Where have I said that I was afraid of your vote? Where did I say I was trying to discredit you? Examples?

Come to think about it, 99.9% of your questions have been leading, as I've shown above. Show me one question you've asked, concerning me, that has not been leading? And before you do that, please answer the questions above? Don't just dance around them like you did last time I asked you to show proof?

[neil1113]

1. Developing a wagon, and finding that person to be scummy, yes. RVS votes, into an ACTUAL wagon, yes. Catching scum amongst the midst of that like you, yes. It's catching scum.

MOI's vote on me was random?

Was it not? That's what I have it down as in my notes?

2. Of course not, but because you continue to misrep and continue this dreaded attempt at making me look scummy by twisting and stretching things about me, nobody else has really said anything. So until people start getting involved, I can't get reads or question anyone else?

So you're using the question mark trick again.

Lol. Yes. You use question marks when you ask a question. I was asking you, until people start getting involved, I can't get reads or question anyone else, do you oppose that? Can you develop reads on people who say nothing?

So until then, I'll continue to further the case of how scummy you are, by watching your scum-tells that you're releasing by the bucket.

Pointless noise and rhetoric.

Pointless? I told you how scummy you're being, and you would call it pointless? Noted.

cj: Scum only care about finding one mis-lynch a day. neil only want to find one player that he wants to be lynched. What are your thoughts on that?

Prove that I have ever said "I only want to find one player lynched"?

So you didn't respond to an accusation of you not scumhunting by saying "Lol. Wow. Enough said. I've caught scum. You."? Is that what you're saying?

No, I said prove to me where I only want to find one player that I want to lynch? I found you out as scum, so I want you lynched. But how does that imply you're the ONLY person I want lynched, and I don't want to hear from anyone else? You've failed at this example.

What do you think about the fact that neil doesn't seem to have any desire to scumhunt?

Since when was I not scum hunting? I'm scum hunting, and I'm finding you scummy. Just because I'm scum hunting and my current focus is YOU doesn't mean I'm not scum hunting.

Other than rhetoric and plays for sympathy what have you actually said about me?

I asked you to prove me wrong. Prove to me that I have done no scum hunting? Hint hint, you can't. You fail at your response here, as well.

What do you think of neil's habit of writing statements where everything is implied rather than said and as such gives him plausible deniability?

"Statements." Key word. Give me two times in which I've implied something, and not said it straight up? Otherwise, you're leading.

"Please tell me everyone else realizes that everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him?" and your "Biggest wagon?"

Biggest Wagon, I had something implied yes. Your first example, I was honestly asking a question. Again, that's what you do when you ask a question. You include a question mark. You fail at THIS example as well.

What do you think of neil's insistence that he challenged me before I voted him? Kind of makes it clear that he's scum, right?

I called you out on this earlier, and you gave me no response. Show me one example in which I've stated I challenged you before you voted me?

That was your implied vs stating trick.

Or in other words, you took words that I did not say, and assumed them to be my opinion, while in reality you have no proof that this is indeed what I was implying? Scummy much? Town find scummy things about people, not twist things and make things up in order to FIT their idea of that person being scum. You fail at this example.

What alignment is so afraid of 1 (one) vote that they wagon the largest wagon and try and discredit the person voting them? And then when called out for it just strawmnan the argument?

Where have I said that I was afraid of your vote? Where did I say I was trying to discredit you?

This is ridiculous. You didn't say it therefore it can'ty be true. I vote you and in order to discredit me you call me a lousy player (And we know its an attempt to discredit me because you later tried to pretend it was just a coincidence.)

You stated it as a fact. You can't prove it. Simple enough. And what do you mean, we all know? You're the only one that has made such implications. And as the town's leading wagon, you have no position to be speaking for us. I told you I had no intention in discrediting you. You discredited yourself.

The fact is, you cannot prove any of your leading questions, and I gave you a chance. You had 5 chances, and you only even came CLOSE to giving an actual answer to one of them. The rest were "I thought" or "You implied" or "I assumed" yet you couldn't quote a single post of mine to back up your leading questions. What townie would do that? I'm struggling so hard to see the possibility of you being town, but with every post you convince me otherwise. You've stretched, you've lied, you've been deceitful, and you've implicated things about me that just simply are not true. Things that you can't prove one way or another, and things that you can only say "Well think about it, he COULD POSSIBLY mean..." You have a crap case on me. You had a crap case on him. You are not a town leader, and you are scum. If this doesn't prove it, I don't know what would. I asked you for proof, you came up with none. You were left wanting, and hanging onto nothing. You have no case. You have no position to argue. You have no vote that would actually intimidate me. Good day sir, and prepare to be lynched.

[neil1113]

So "Please tell me everyone else realizes that everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him?" was not you implying that everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him?

Lol this is a joke right? I flat out stated that. If anything I implied that I'd like someone other than you to tell me I'm wrong for once about you. But saying "everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him" MEANS "everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him" despite how I say "everyone who challenges Empking is called scum by him."

No, I said prove to me where I only want to find one player that I want to lynch?

So you want multiple people lynched today? How many?

Again, the burden of proof is on you, not me. Don't ask me questions, prove what you've already stated. My point is, that you can't.

I asked you to prove me wrong. Prove to me that I have done no scum hunting? Hint hint, you can't. You fail at your response here, as well.

Mind answering the question though? (Without reference to your latest post?)

Again, you're not proving anything. You're asking questions. You've already made your statements, so prove to me BEFORE the statements, that they were accurately backed by MY posts? Otherwise, stop wasting this space and stop distracting the town. You're already scum, let the others have a chance to talk so we can get some more reads.

[neil1113]

What attacks against me? From neil? Because I don'tr remember reading any from that direction.

Provide one example of where I solely tried to defend myself, should be that difficult should it

What is the point?

If I take the time to provide an example, where will we get? Nowhere.

Meh. I just hopes everyone takes not of your recent actions.

What do you mean? XD

I believe he meant you're acting really scummy, and he's hoping everyone takes note of it.

[neil1113]

Guys, I would step back and think about where you place your votes. Empking, I'm going to re-ISO you without my biased and see what my read will come of you. I'm sorry that I've brought on this argument where it's mostly my Biased opinions causing me to see everything you do as scummy. And when it is, I don't even think about the possibility that it could just be misguided townie.

I also want to ISO Deity, except his only posts are concerning Emp. I don't think he warrants much of a ISO, or a concern... not saying he reads town for me though. I can definitely see him being scum.

I'm not sure any cases on Sloth or Hez, but Twisted I can definitely see the case for. He's probably my 2nd scum town read. Unfortunately, he also was the only other person to call me out as scummy, so I want to ISO him again without any biased.

I'd like to see Caboose contribute more to this game. Deliver a read, and pressure them? Same goes for Hez and CJ. Matter of fact, CJDrum has been nearly silent this game. Come on CJ, post!

To clarify, what I'm currently going to be doing is ISOing Twisted, and Empking again. My #1, and #2 reads before I ISO them are Emp and Twisted.

[neil1113]

After ISOing both Emp and Twisted, I'm still completely satisfied with my read on Emp. I do incredibly believe him to be scum. So he's going to stay as my #1 vote.

However, I'm also leaning Twisted as scum as well. I've ISO'd him, and Twisted could you start posting more and giving us more content in this game? Unfortunately I've gotten to know your scum Meta pretty well, and I'm starting to see some... similarities that are starting to bother me. Starting off with your seemingly lack at scum hunting.

Wicked, what about our fight makes you think we're both townies? I ask because we both have very different views of each other, and apparently I'm not the only one who thinks that about Emp, so how can you really see Emp's responses and consider him to be town? That's the question I'm really asking.

Deity, what's your actual opinion/case on Emp?

Hes Lucky: What makes you think our posts we're specifically spam? Are you addressing that to both of us, or is it more of a one-sided thing? And I'd highly recommend you not just "skip" through them, but look at Emp and look at his responses, and then tell me how you can possibly see him as town after it's all said and done? I can't.

[neil1113]

Wow... I really have nothing to say here. Empking, you're really not making this game fun. I'm almost positive you'll flip as Mafia and not Werewolf, because of your slip up earlier. You knew we weren't Mafia, because you're Mafia and you know we're not your buddies. Now onto who are your buddies? I'm guessing TS is Werewolf, since you made an effort to call him scum as well.. and I'm still not sure who KD is...

[neil1113]

I also want to ISO Deity, except his only posts are concerning Emp. I don't think he warrants much of a ISO, or a concern... not saying he reads town for me though. I can definitely see him being scum.

Let me get this right. You want to ISO Deity, you don't think ISO'ing him is worthwhile but you can see him as scum? That makes no sense whatsoever and screams of an attempt to seem as if you've scumhunting.

Unvote: TwistedSpoon
Vote: Neil113

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure which of this seems to come from scum motivation, therefore I don't know how to adequately defend myself? Twisted hasn't really posted anything of value that I remember seeing (which his ISO proved when I did ISO him), and so I was posting my thought process. I didn't think I'd find much from TS, therefore I was stating I don't think he causes reason for a concern because I've noticed a band wagon forming on him and I didn't find him to be lynch-worthy when you have scum like Emp in the game? That's what I was trying to clarify with that post. The last bit was me clarifying that I wasn't calling him town for lurking, and he could indeed be found scummy, but when you have someone like Emp in the game and you can only lurk at Twisted? That seems kind of blatantly ignorant to me.

Emp, I still don't understand what you're asking? What specifically do you want to know from that question, what's the point in asking me this question, and why do you only choose to clarify when everyone ELSE calls you scummy, but not when I asked originally? When I asked you blew it off, and called me scummy. Are you now prepared to explain?

[neil1113]

A counterexample does not discredit the entire thing. I've seen people fake claim as town does that mean that fake claiming isn't a scum tell?

This is correct, however your argument for MoI being mafia seesms to highly hinge on his defence of Neil rather than much else.

'm sorry, but I'm not sure which of this seems to come from scum motivation, therefore I don't know how to adequately defend myself? Twisted hasn't really posted anything of value that I remember seeing (which his ISO proved when I did ISO him), and so I was posting my thought process.

You didn't even take the time to read the post I quoted of you? It never mentioned TS, not once, the post was about your suspicion of Deity. I'm feeling comfortable with my vote right now.

HezLucky - Can you attempt to explain what you mean by "Makes me feel uncomfortable", which part of MoI's #8 and Empkings #6 seem off?

That post was intended for TS. Not Deity. That's my mistake. I thought I clarified it.

Emp, I've grown tired of arguing with you. It gets nowhere. You can answer my questions, or not. You're choice. If you really want an answer, you can explain what you mean. Otherwise, continue to make your stretches and call me scum. I could care less what you say at this point concerning me.

[neil1113]

Neil - If you have already clariffied it my fault, do you mind linking me to the post you did so though?

I looked with zeal for that post, and then realized I never posted it. I don't know why I didn't post it, but now I feel like an idiot. I never clarified it, therefore your vote is understandable. I can't really defend either, except by saying sorry? That sucks.

[neil1113]

@Muffin:

So you do believe Empking to be scummy? Yet you believe Twistedspoon to be more confirmed scum in your mind? Why is this?

[neil1113]

Not feeling as bad about Twisted as I was earlier as well, his slight-town read on MoI rather than an attempt to throw dirt elsewhere reads as a town-tell. Neil dropped of activity wise the

first second that pressure was released.

Lol. What pressure?

to side with my gut I'd be voting kabuto or neil; both of who's flip I would be extremely interested in

Why is that?

[neil1113]

EBWOP:

to side with my gut I'd be voting kabuto or neil; both of who's flip I would be extremely interested in

Why is that?

[neil1113]

@Empking,

Have you

dropped your case on neil

or do you just think DK is scummier at the moment?

What case?

[neil1113]

Neil

– Having read a sufficent amount of his posts after the game started I’m not believing his “Ooops, didn’t know about the set-up” pre-game persona. He’s clearly capable of complex discourse and responses. That clearly doesn’t jibe with what was presented pre-game.

I don't know what to say? It's your opinion.. I really didn't know. I wasn't playing ignorant.

[neil1113]

@Empking

Can s0omebody provide an example of where I've asked a leading question?

... While I don't personally have a problem with your questioning style, you do it pretty much every time you ask a question.

So, you're saying that asking leading questions aren't scum-motivated techniques, so you don't have a problem with them?

HezLucky is scum, his large post. That is really Anti-Town, he is against quite a few people (suspects), and there can't be that many scum. I want him lynched as well as Empking.

I find this reasoning less then satisfactory. Can you explain why a large post is Anti-Town, and why not trusting EVERYONE in the game is scummy?

See this clearly isn't what you think. You're well aware that OMGUS is when somebody votes you for the sole reason that you voted them. I made it perfectly clear that I felt the reason why neil voted me was because
1. I was the biggest wagon.
2. Neil was afraid of my vote.
Neither of those two reasons is OMGUS.

Except 1. You were hardly a wagon at that time, let alone continuously describing yourself with such large adjectives like "biggest" and "largest." I find those terms leading others to assume something about your wagon that wasn't necessarily true. And 2. I was NOT afraid of your vote. I already explained why NOBODY should be afraid of your vote in this game, so you'd turn around and accuse ME of being afraid of it? Lol.

Also, you asked for proof about asking leading questions, and then stated afterwards that everyone has "shut up" when you asked them for proof. I have you 5 examples of proof. You just don't man up to your own lacks. By the way, happy birthday.

[neil1113]

Was I the

largest

wagon with one more vote then the other wagon? Yes or no.

Yes.

And we can just take your word for it?

Nope, we can take your meta for it.

Scumday.

Can you quote the examples for me? (Orv tell me which post of your's it was?)

I said happy birthday, and you said scumday? Did you just admit you're scum?

And no, I won't requote to you the examples. You can ISO me if you really care, but I'm not going to go back and forth with you again. Twice now you've promised it would be your "last post of the day" yet you're still insisting with your petty, pointless, scum-filled, ridiculous posts that push people into stupid little arguments when there is no need.

[neil1113]

Yes Wicked, Muffin... please vote me because this post doesn't exist!

See Emp? You're scum. I have one page of ISO and that's all you'd have to go through to see this post. Conveniently you've overlooked it. You're going to be lynched today Emp, because you're scum. And why do you keep asking people to do things, like quoting things to "everybody"... You're not in any position to be requesting ANYBODY to be doing ANYTHING.

[neil1113]

^^ Lol okay. Have a nice day.

[neil1113]

I agree with what Regfan had to say regarding this. It looks really bad. His response doesn't make any sense to me either.

My response doesn't make sense? What do you not understand?

Uh... I don't really see how asking leading questions is necessarily a scum-motivated technique.

What's the point of asking leading questions in your opinion?

[neil1113]

Empking, a Seer? The one role in the game the town would want in this game? Really? Oh gosh. Either fate has royally screwed the town over, or Emp is fake-claiming. With that in my mind:

UNVOTE: Emp

Can we lynch Neil now?

Why would you want to lynch me? Do you have a case that you can present? If not, move on and stop tunneling the two people who almost had you lynched.

If Emp is the seer (and all will be told tonight, there's no way the werewolves are going to leave Emp alive when he has a chance to cut their team in half by two), I must agree there absolutely HAS to be scum on his wagon. So we have:

MagnaofIllusion, neil1113, DeityKabuto, cjdrum, HezLucky, Sloth

Out of the following, I can really only see Hezlucky, and DeityKabuto as scummy in this scenario. CJ seems to just be absent from the game, with no real imput, and Sloth had very valid reason for his vote. I don't like the WIFOM scenario HezLucky created with his unvote, and I've understood that HezLucky has seem to had little to no pressure this day, skating by with a "get out of jail free" pass and nobody's really giving him any pressure. So with that said:

VOTE: HezLucky

What's your case on Deity? (and yes, I know this is asking you to restate things.) Why are you not so quick to jump on the others on the wagon, like myself, Magna, or Sloth? (Again, leaving CJ out purposely due to lurkers mentality...)

[neil1113]

Hm, I think I get it.

UNVOTE: Empking

Why are you not voting for anyone? Do you have any cases? Anything to contribute at all? What do you think of Emp's response?

[neil1113]

I agree with what Regfan had to say regarding this. It looks really bad. His response doesn't make any sense to me either.

My response doesn't make sense? What do you not understand?

Wicked you seem to have missed my question, so I quoted it for you to respond to. Now my

2nd time

asking. I do hope you wouldn't make me have to keep repeating myself?

[neil1113]

Well you were talking about a different player which I didn't understand until you clarified it later. But even once I understood that, your explanation still didn't make sense. Not because it was necessarily illogical, but simply because I didn't understand what you were trying to say or if it was even relevant to the point against you. Could you explain it again in a bit more detail?

Gladly.

I also want to ISO Deity, except his only posts are concerning Emp. I don't think he warrants much of a ISO, or a concern... not saying he reads town for me though. I can definitely see him being scum.

That post was intended for TS. Not Deity. That's my mistake. I thought I clarified it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure which of this seems to come from scum motivation, therefore I don't know how to adequately defend myself? Twisted hasn't really posted anything of value that I remember seeing (which his ISO proved when I did ISO him), and so I was posting my thought process. I didn't think I'd find much from TS, therefore I was stating I don't think he causes reason for a concern because I've noticed a band wagon forming on him and I didn't find him to be lynch-worthy when you have scum like Emp in the game? That's what I was trying to clarify with that post. The last bit was me clarifying that I wasn't calling him town for lurking, and he could indeed be found scummy, but when you have someone like Emp in the game and you can only lurk at Twisted? That seems kind of blatantly ignorant to me.

So I don't repeat myself, care to show me where you seem to be lost with my explanation above? I don't really see how you can not understand me here? I'm pretty clear in my explanation. I think now that you'll read them how I said them, you'll understand them just fine. The problem is, I don't think you've actually read my posts, and are just looking to cast suspicion that isn't there, onto me and make me look suspicious by branching off someone else's case, which has already been cut down if I'm not mistaken. And here's with the problem comes, because if you say you did read that and understand now then this post of yours:

I also don't like the quote from him that Regfan pointed out where it looks like he is trying to appear like he's scumhunting.

shows me you aren't actually reading my posts.

Now the main part of your case, is actually quite interesting to me. The interesting part is how this:

I don't like the WIFOM scenario HezLucky created with his unvote, and I've understood that HezLucky has seem to had little to no pressure this day, skating by with a "get out of jail free" pass and nobody's really giving him any pressure.

Became this:

So, the reasoning boils down to:
1. HezLucky's unvote created a WIFOM scenario. I really don't like this reason. First of all, there isn't any WIFOM that I can see. Secondly, HezLucky was unvoting Empking, the claimed seer. Why would a player continue trying to get the seer lynched or why wouldn't they switch their vote? Finally, this reason is weak even if it was correct, because scum would have no motivation to do what neil is accusing him of doing with this point.
2. He wants to pressure HezLucky. Firstly, a pressure vote isn't very effective when you say it is a pressure vote. This just looks like scum giving themselves room to backpedal so they can later say "But it was just a pressure vote" when attacked for it. Secondly, the key word is "nobody's" (I've underlined it). With such a close deadline, it doesn't make any sense for neil to be voting HezLucky considering he doesn't have anybody else voting him.

I'll answer it accordingly:

#1.1: "There isn't any WIFOM that I can see"

Mafia Wiki states: "WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny." A more simpler explanation from Epic Mafia: "a play characterized by an infinite regress of reverse psychology."

I don't think Empking is a werewolf because it would be really really dumb for the wolves to sacrifice "half their members" on Day One. (then again, maybe that's his only choice?)

Are you blind then? Or purposely ignorant to follow through with your desire to make me look scummy, no matter how far from the truth it really is?

#1.2: "Why would a player continue trying to get the seer lynched or why wouldn't they switch their vote? "

First of all. When did I ever mention my vote there because he didn't want to lynch the seer? Secondly, in the main points that I gave to my vote, where in that did I ever mention my suspicion there because of his unvote specifically, and not because of the WIFOM that was stated in his unvote? This point sir, is irrelevant. Or in other words, fluff to further your suspicions in a... less then sufficient way, to put it nicely.

#1.3: "Finally, this reason is weak even if it was correct, because scum would have no motivation to do what neil is accusing him of doing with this point."

Why would scum have no motivation to use WIFOM to get them in a comfortable position of not voting anyone, and thus not initially causing any suspicion onto themselves? In fact I understand the burden of proof is on me, so I'll show you why. 1. It creates a comfortable position for them to lurk, by not voting anyone. 2. It creates a position in which they aren't really voting anyone, so they don't have any big stances they need to defend, which means people's eyes won't exactly be focused on them.

#2.1: "a pressure vote isn't very effective when you say it is a pressure vote. This just looks like scum giving themselves room to backpedal so they can later say "But it was just a pressure vote" when attacked for it."

Considering there's two points you're attempting to make here, I'll address them with letters. 2.1a. Since when was a pressure vote any less effective the minute you say it is? It's still a vote, that can still lead to a lynch, in which can still lead to ultimate death in whatever game you're in? The only difference is, you know it's a pressure vote. It doesn't mean I'm going to remove it now, because you're not responding. If anything, if you don't respond to my accusations, or ignore me, it'll cause me to push even harder. In fact, coming from a Psychology background, that's human nature. We hate being ignored. Care to argue this too? 2.1b. It looked like I was giving myself room to backpedal? Explain to me this. 1. Why would I need to backpedal? 2. Why would I get attacked for it?

#2.2: "the key word is "nobody's" (I've underlined it). With such a close deadline, it doesn't make any sense for neil to be voting HezLucky considering he doesn't have anybody else voting him."

To rephrase this to make it... more accurate to my actual statement, we'd say "With such a close deadline, it doesn't make any sense for Neil to be pressuring an appearing active lurker that isn't being pressured by anyone else." With this, I ask: Why? A deadline is approaching... so what? It's not here. It's still 6 days away. If I want to pressure someone for a few more days, what's wrong with that? Basically, I'm scummy because I'm not specifically following the crowd and instead I'm going on my own intuition? (See, I can speculate a completely unrelated reason too!)

So that's all your points I believe. Anything else?

[neil1113]

- Neil is unvoting me for unvoting Empking, yet he is doing the same thing. Inconsistent and erases any town read I had on him.

I'm not unvoting you because of your unvote specifically. Others unvoted as well. I've already clarified this if you've bothered to read my posts.

I am noting Neil's metadefense (#145) of Twisted here for later. Not giving anyone any points for this, but when someone flips it will be
worth revisiting.

What? I didn't defend him, I called him possible scum. Are you seriously not reading my posts? I find it ironic that according to your baseless accusations that are stretching at the least, you're now coming from a mindset it seems like of "Oh my gosh, he voted for me. Now I'm going to view him as scum, or at least scummy!" Which I believe you now have a case of the unfortunate, weak based no defense case of the "OMGUS" virus. You might want to get that checked out.

Post #298 by Neil113, are you honestly attemping to paint his 'scumday' as him being scum?

... No.

Post #339 by Neil113.

(1) In what way does 'Absent from the game' mean less likely to be scum?

If anything wouldn't someone 'Absent from the game' be a much better lynch than not?

(2) Neil113 - What is Sloths 'Very valid reason' for voting Empking?

#1. I did not say that. I said as far as people we (I) could focus on, it'd be MUCH more productive to focus on someone that can defend themselves, not someone that's absent from the game. Do you disagree?

#2.

If he's not lynched today, I doubt that he'd live through the night with no kind of doc or JK in this setup.

It looked as though at least he had a reasoning behind his vote that I found valid.

[neil1113]

Twistedspoon (6) - zMuffinMan, Wickedestjr, Caboose, Sloth, MagnaofIllusion, Regfan (One vote away from lynch!)
Empking (2) - DeityKabuto, cjdrum
DeityKabuto (1) - Twistedspoon
neil1113 (1) - Empking
HezLucky (1) - neil1113
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky

Caboose will be prodded, although I'm sure I sent him a prod on the 6th, I don't see any record of it. Because of this, I'm removing the Friday deadline. Thanks for your patience.

Everyone else is safe from the Devil's wrath for the time being, no more prods.

Alright well considering the deadline is gone, does everyone agree that a Twistedspoon flip would really be the most beneficial thing for us?

Twisted, what confuses me is that you're at L-1, and have done close to nothing to defend yourself? Why? Have you given up, or do you just not care?

[neil1113]

Well, we just lost our Seer, and I can't get anything from Empking's death. It was pretty obvious that everyone wanted him dead, but we can get something from the Townie we lynched, why the hell did you guys want TwistedSpoon dead anyways? I wanted Empking dead,

he turned Pro-townie, but he wasn't helping much of the town at all,

imho TwistedSpoon looked very innocent. I will be looking into who started TwistedSpoon's case and cast my vote on them.

How do you turn pro-town, but not be any help to town? This post looks absolutely like a fluff post with a forced reaction.

I can't believe Emp was actually the Seer, I have some suspicions as to who the Werewolves are while the game was at Night Phase. I speculate they would be Werewolves because of the blatant connection between the two of them, however they very well could have a Mafia partner that's just being silent or deliberately distant. But before I post anything specific, I believe my suspicions will be either confirmed or denied when one of the two people posts. Until that time, I'll wait to post them.

[neil1113]

That's an interesting statement, and I'm not actually sure what you're suggesting here (since it really doesn't make sense), or why you made this statement.

Lets go through the scenario, Currently there's 5 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.
- If a VT gets lynched it becomes 4 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.
- If a VT gets shot tonight it bcomes 3 VT's, 3 Mafia and 2 Werewolves alive.

This leads tommorow to having three possible scenarios:

Scenario 1: Vanilla Townie gets lynched.

This leaves 2 Vanilla Townies, 3 Scum, 2 Werewolves.
In this position if the werewolves don't nightkill mafia the games over with the mafia winning.

Scenario 2: Werewolf gets lynched.

This leaves 3 Vanilla Townies, 3 Scum, 1 Werewolves.
In this position if werewolves don't nightkill mafia the games over with the mafia winning.

Scenario 3: Scum gets lynched.

This leaves 2 Vanilla Townies, 2 Scum, 2 Werewolves.
In this position if they kill a VT, it becomes impossible for town to win, meaning the final VT picks which allignment wins, something werewolves should want to avoid.

So according to your information speculations, it's nearly impossible to gain a town victory in this set-up? Or am I misreading this?

[neil1113]

Just a response to questions right now, currently working on my reads.

neil, what good is this line of questioning doing?

What good is you posting just to ask me this question doing? (Yes, I avoided the question to prove a point. If you didn't get it, I'll gladly explain it to you.)

Neil #396 - you're right. I love to OMGUS. But given where you are on my suspect list (as of last post) that has nothing to
do with you.

OMGUS is very rarely a townie minded thing to do purposely in my experience.

Why are you even questioning me about this? And if this is really something you find worth questioning, then why didn't you say something before I continued questioning you? FoS: MzMuffinMan I don't like this questioning at all. It looks like scum trying to deflect the attention on to me. Finally, I don't see where you are even going with this questioning.

If this doesn't look like scum paranoia, I don't know what is. You're overly defensive, and you appear to be trying hard to discredit the case and the person making the case.

LynchMePls's post here sums up HezLucky's posting so far this game in a very accurate description.

I just don't understand it.
1. Why did you say you want to ISO Twistedspoon, but then say you didn't think he warranted an ISO?
2. Why did you feel the need to ISO Twistedspoon if you didn't think he warranted a concern?
3. Why did you say you didn't think he warranted a concern despite also saying "I can definitely see him being scum." ?

1. My overall view of his posting up to that point, without the proper ISO, made me think he didn't have much content or posts to really look at. So I was saying I want to ISO him, though I'm not too sure if I'll find anything. Basically it was a "don't expect for me to come off the ISO with a hard view on him one way or the other.

2. I admit, I didn't mean that the way it sounds out of context. It was a "I can see Twisted being scum, indefinitely. I haven't ruled it out. However, for a Day 1 Lynch so far, I don't see what he's done that's warranted much of a concern up at that point for people to be considering him for a Day 1 lynch."

3. Explained above.

(1.) Uh... no. I read the post 20-30 times and I still didn't understand it.
(2.) I'm not going to ignore a possible point against you just because the player that brought it up stopped attacking you for it. (3.) Also, is there a problem with me "branching off someone else's case"?

1. Well thank you for attempting then.
2. This is a misrepresentation of my posts to you. I don't appreciate you stretching what I've said. Did I ever say, specifically or implementally, that you should ignore any posts, mine or not?
3. Yes, because you use their foundation for your case and it's very easy to create fluff cases, with no real content of your own. It's a scum tactic in my opinion, that gives you easy oppurtunity to look like you're scum hunting without much actual hunting on your part.

...because they could just say 'I'm unvoting because he claimed seer.' which is a perfectly acceptable reason. I think (from memory) a few players had also given this reason for unvoting prior to his unvote.

This is the problem with WIFOM, is that the only answer you can really give, is WIFOM. -__-

1: The whole point of a pressure vote is to get a better idea of the player's allignment. By saying it is a pressure vote, you are implying that you don't have a strong scum read on him, which is something he doesn't need to know. Why did you feel the need to say that it is a pressure vote?

2: When we were a few days from deadline and he only had one vote, it was unlikely that he would get lynched and I think he knew that.

(3.) Was HezLucky your top suspect at the time of your vote?

1. You didn't answer how it becomes any less effective. Instead you just gave a definition on what a pressure vote is. And I felt the need to say that, so that others when reading my vote, should they so choose, they can also hop on the pressure wagon. The point of pressure, is when a wagon forms it causes someone to respond. See? <<< I can do it too.

2. Does that stop me from placing the vote? If not, of what importance is this point?

3. Was he more of a suspect then anyone else at the moment? Yes but not by much. Did I have a "top suspect" that really stood out above everyone else, no.

Wickedestjr, regarding your most recent post, I would feel more safe having neil lynched instead of ZMuffinMan. He was the main person on Empking's case, and I could easily seem him telling his scumbuddies to lynch Empking.

Uh, what? I really don't know what to say, or how to respond to this? You would feel more safe having me lynched, why? What would my flip do for you / the town? Yes, I was a main person on Emp's wagon. Did you not find Emp scummy? You had your vote on him, so while I did indeed pressure him a lot, he obviously appeared scummy to others so is my pressure on him more scum-motivated then town? If so, is everyone else who was on the wagon scum?

And to your last part: "I could easily see him telling his scumbuddies to lynch Emp".. what?

[neil1113]

DK, why do you not trust me? What have I done that made me seem to have broken your trust?

You have a 100% vibe from Regfan because his posts are wise and he's posting like a pro-town individual. Which of my posts are not wise, and which of my posts make me seem anti-town? In fact, do you have any cases on anyone of us? Your case against me to say the least was less then satisfactory to be placing your vote there considering the others in this game. Make a case, and actually look like you're trying in this game, or my vote will be switching over to you. I don't care if your case is on me, just make one.

[neil1113]

The reasons I find you suspicious neil are as followed:

- You and Empking had a big debate, and you wanted him lynched the most out of anyone leading to my second point.
- You could have easily been the Mafia who decided to night kill Empking as how you two have pages of arguments, including a bunch of "spam/waste of space" comments.
- Empking flipped Town, you wanted Empking lynched, you were the "main" driver of Empking's case, and at the end of Day 1, you switched over to voting HezLucky, why is that? Did you feel that HezLucky was more scummier than Empking, or are HezLucky and Empking both townies and you are a scum aware of who's Townie or not? If I recall, your case on Empking went more in-depth than with HezLucky.
- You were SO certain of Empking being scum.

Yes Wicked, Muffin... please vote me because this post doesn't exist!

See Emp? You're scum. I have one page of ISO and that's all you'd have to go through to see this post. Conveniently you've overlooked it. You're going to be lynched today Emp, because you're scum. And why do you keep asking people to do things, like quoting things to "everybody"... You're not in any position to be requesting ANYBODY to be doing ANYTHING.

^That was a quote from Post #301 (whereas Empking sounded PRETTY sure Empking was scum)

With that said, #301. Your case on Empking had started, what? 10 Pages earlier. You sounded pretty sure of Empking being scum, but he flipped Townie. Guys, get on Niel's case.

There, I have a case on you, satisfied?

No because out of all of your fluff, there were only two actual points you gave. 1. I was wrong with my suspicion of Empking, and 2. I was the main driver of Empking's lynch. Here's the deal (backwards, just for fun so I feel like actually responding to you.)

2. Empking wasn't lynched, he was night killed. Therefore your point is somewhat invalid by itself. The bandwagon on Empking shows that Empking was indeed scummy. He may not have been scum aligned, but he sure wasn't pro-town and the wagon on him proves it.

1. If you want to lynch me because of my suspicion of the Town Seer, then you have a bunch of others to lynch as well. Not just myself.

Also to answer a question that you particularly phrased on purpose to make me look like scum, while also using WIFOM in the situation:

- Empking flipped Town, you wanted Empking lynched, you were the "main" driver of Empking's case, and at the end of Day 1, you switched over to voting HezLucky, why is that? Did you feel that HezLucky was more scummier than Empking, or are HezLucky and Empking both townies and you are a scum aware of who's Townie or not? If I recall, your case on Empking went more in-depth than with HezLucky.

Here you go, before you ask questions, read my posts. Don't just try to form a bandwagon on speculations alone, form it on FACTUAL speculations if anything.

Empking, a Seer? The one role in the game the town would want in this game? Really? Oh gosh. Either fate has royally screwed the town over, or Emp is fake-claiming. With that in my mind:

UNVOTE: Emp

Out of the following, I can really only see Hezlucky, and DeityKabuto as scummy in this scenario. CJ seems to just be absent from the game, with no real imput, and Sloth had very valid reason for his vote. I don't like the WIFOM scenario HezLucky created with his unvote, and I've understood that HezLucky has seem to had little to no pressure this day, skating by with a "get out of jail free" pass and nobody's really giving him any pressure. So with that said:

VOTE: HezLucky

Did you purposely ignore this post to make me look scummy?

VOTE: DeityKabuto

You're not scum hunting, you're wasting our time with fluff and stretching remarks, and then repeating yourself 5 times and calling them "points." You're not pro-town right now, and I don't see how anyone can really consider you a Townsman. In fact, have you even made a case that can stand yet?

[neil1113]

VI Deity makes a lot more sense when considering his play style and his current horrible case against me, which thus kind of null's my read on him. At least, not worthy of my attention to lynch more then HezLucky.

Reg, you have me listed as scum? Any particular reason, or do I just rub you the wrong way?

[neil1113]

Now I have a case on neil, which he hasn't responded to, and I really feel more safe having neil lynched.

No you don't, which is why I have not responded to anything you've said.

As for the others who have posted something to me, I should be able to get to your post either late tonight, or sometime tomorrow. Maybe sooner. We'll see how RL goes.

[neil1113]

I actually strongly agree with the CJ case, though I don't see why people would be willing to lynch Sloth over CJ when Sloth is wanting to replace out?

I'm willing to hammer, but I'm not going to lie, the LynchMePls vote on CJ looks a lot like a bus vote...

[neil1113]

^^^ For the record, I'm currently reISOing CJ and Sloth. If nobody says anything to my hammer remark, then I'll hammer in a few if I'm still convinced after the ISO.

Sorry for the hypocrisy in my post, I know I said I'd respond and I've failed to do so. I apologize but at this point and time, I have no intention on responding right now.

[neil1113]

Vote Count:

HezLucky (3) - zMuffinMan, Regfan
DeityKabuto (1) - neil1113
Sloth (2) - LynchMePls, cjdrum
MagnaofIllusion (1) - HezLucky
neil1113 (1) - DeityKabuto
cjdrum (1) - MagnaofIllusion

Not Voting: Sloth, Wickedestjr.

Since then, Wicked said he voted for CJ. (2)
Deity hopped on the wagon. (3)
Lynch busses. (4)

Regfan is right, as it takes (6) to lynch, CJ is only at L-2. While I'm becoming more and more convinced as I continue to ISO CJ, I'm pretty sure he's being bussed by one of his partners. The already VI Deity is on the wagon, and his switching of votes makes me nervous, while Lynch already looks like he's bussing his partner, which I hope we don't let that slide if CJ if the choice of the town tonight.

I'll go ahead and UNVOTE: and VOTE: Cjdrum. Now he's at L-1. Either way I look at it, CJ turns out to be scum in the possibilities above. Poor CJ, having Lynch as his partner kind of threw him under the bus nonchalantly...

[neil1113]

Deity, do you really think scum would avoid the wagon if CJ flips scum? If so, why do you think that over scum trying to bus their partner (example: Lynch)?

Lynch: I have no desire to discuss anything with you. You're defense besides being insulting, rude, and vulgar, is "no, you're his partner!" Really Lynch? Really? Glad you're incapable of making a defense when you're caught.

[neil1113]

Nice to see you too Deity.

Now onto actual scum hunting:

ISOing CJ was to no avail, as my suspicions brought me with 4 possible suspects of his partners (which obviously is wrong, as there can only be 2 partners of his.) They are:

Hez, Deity, Sloth, and DK.

However, I'm not so much concerned with trying to find his partners, as I am trying to find the werewolves. Considering Mafia are just useless, and it's the Wolves that do the killing, it'd be nice to try and lynch one of them. Considering the circumstances, I'll eliminate VI Deity, and easy wagon'd Sloth from my main suspects and focus in on Hez and DK. I'll be ISOing each of them individually, and posting what I find (or don't find) in these ISO's.

I'm wondering why LynchMePlz was night killed though. I could speculate and say it's because others believed him to be scum too, and so the Wolves were hoping to kill a Mafia member. But to be honest, that then makes me look bad because I was pressing him so hard as scum before the day ended.

Also, though I'm trying to mostly ignore your useless posts in this game Deity, I do have one question. "I will most likely be the next victim of the Werewolf" why did you post this? And what makes you think anyone in this game that could kill would waste their time getting rid of you in particular? Do you really think Wolves are more interested in killing town, then Mafia? Or did you post the "Rational Night Kill Fear" tell in order to look townie, when in reality (WIFOM here, bare with me) you're the second Werewolf, and you're wanting to distance yourself from that term so that you can be seen as town, but in reality are scum in disguise? (/end WIFOM)

[neil1113]

Deity, thanks for answering my questions.

Regfan, "what makes you believe that Neil is a werewolf?"

Because Deity is Mafia? Scum slip?

Also Regfan, you didn't make a case against me. You made a cast against CJ, then voted me. I can't accurately defend CJ's actions no more then you can defend anyone else's actions? While some of your points would be valid (some, not all) against CJ, that's the problem. They are against CJ.

[neil1113]

Can someone please make a case on me and stop saying you're so certain I'm scum? I'm town for the freaking record, and it's pissing me off now. Three of you now, call me scum, place your vote on me, and I've yet to see a single point / case made that wasn't about CJ. You three (Reg, Wicked, and Deity) are officially making this game no fun. Please for the love of all that is holy, SCUM HUNT. If you were, you wouldn't be voting me because I'm not scum. Good god you three piss me off.

[neil1113]

Can someone please make a case on me and stop saying you're so certain I'm scum? I'm town for the freaking record, and it's pissing me off now. Three of you now, call me scum, place your vote on me, and I've yet to see a single point / case made that wasn't about CJ. You three (Reg, Wicked, and Deity) are officially making this game no fun. Please for the love of all that is holy, SCUM HUNT. If you were, you wouldn't be voting me because I'm not scum. Good god you three piss me off.

I had a case on you in D2

, but you refused to respond after a couple of goes.

Bull shit. I didn't respond after a few times because you HAD NO CASE. And everyone else realized that as well, hell even another person not involved with either of us called your case "horrible." Don't tell me you had a case, all you did was waste my time in my few responses that I DID give you. I don't intend to let you waste my time anymore today.

[neil1113]

Mod: I'm going to have limited access the next 3/4 days. I

should

still be able to post during that time.

@neil - Can you please respond to my posts directed at you yesterday and the points I brought up against you today? Thanks.

Oh, I'd need to reread over them before I could really give you any accurate response. Might be a while, don't hold your breath anytime soon. Sorry bro.

@Mod: V/LA until at LEAST the 4th. Perhaps a few days longer.

[neil1113]

I can't be around to post, since I'm on V/LA. So thanks for giving me a chance. I'm town, so go ahead and hammer if you'd like. I can't post an accurate defense against anything right now, as I barely had time to get to a computer. If you think I'm lying, hammer me and see for yourselves. DK is most definitely not town though, see why he wants to quick lynch me? Yep. Anyways, I'm not going to self-hammer, as that will help the scum. I'll be back around the 4th, or 5th. I think.

[neil1113]

VOTE: DeityKabuto

Just checked in, read through the thread. Update on my V/LA: I'll be driving home tomorrow night, where I can finally catch up once and for all and start posting again. Expect something from me either tomorrow night, Tuesday, or Wednesday at the latest. (I might just sleep all day Tuesday to catch up on sleep, so forgive me if I do.)

[neil1113]

Alright, time for me to get in the game. I've got a few meetings right now to attend, but when I get back, count on my catch up posts, my current reads (of scum, not town for obv. reasons), and then last but not least, my new vote. For now,

UNVOTE: .

I'm fairly confident in my cases that I have found at least two scum, while I've got pretty good sights on others. Deity may be scum, as he's in my suspicions, but I feel a much stronger read coming... but I'm getting ahead of myself here. Look forward to my posts today. If I don't post them, feel free to lynch me for being bad town. I'll even self hammer.

[neil1113]

Currently writing my responses to people, then making the cases, then going to post them. Good gosh, there's a lot to post though, so PLEASE be patient with me. And if I'm at L-1, someone back off my Wagon so that I don't get accidentally hammered until the post comes? I'm working on it right now, and it should be up soon. Be patient though, last night was crazy IRL, so I apologize for not following through with my promise then. But I will not flake on this promise. (Any responses to this post, will not be included in my current post that I'm writing, FYI.)

[neil1113]

Let me state ahead of time, that I do not follow, nor will I acknowledge VCA's, or NKA's, nor will I make any responses to anyone who posted anything directed at me in them. If you did, and want me to respond to it, please respond to this post with the questions / comments / concerns you may have. Also before I get into my serious reads:

Is he dead in that game too?

I laughed. Hard. Okay onto seriousness.

Wicked, as promised...

Spoiler: Wicked

While I don't like DK's vote for neil, neil's response is terribly scummy. I suspected that some of his previous suspicions/accusations in this game were based on OMGUS,

but I am 110% certain that that is the case for his DK vote.

Firstly, he is voting DK because he thought the reasoning DK gave for voting him was bad, however, this was the same reasoning DK used against me. So, if neil1113 really had a problem with this logic,

then why didn't he say anything when I was being attacked for it?

Secondly, I also believe it is OMGUS, because prior to the vote, neil had made no mention of suspecting DK (at least from a skim of his iso). So all of a sudden,

DK makes one post he has issues with and he becomes more voteworthy than anyone else.

I'm not buying it. Thirdly, I'm surprised he didn't vote for HezLucky: after skimming his ISO from day 2, he never expressed any interest in voting HezLucky

despite not ever giving any sign of that suspicion diminishing (that I can remember) and considering that was who he had been voting at the end of day 1, I find this suspicious.

Also, he hadn't been voting anybody at the time of his vote for DK almost as if he was waiting for something suspicious to happen, which seems odd considering he was able to find a place for his vote at the end of day 1. I'm pretty sure neil is scum after this. I'd move my vote there, but I'm not necessarily certain he's a Werewolf (the group I would like to go after today) and I'd also like to finish catching up.

Bold #1. So you're certain that my vote is OMGUS, and you're points basically are "Blah, blah, OMGUS, blah, blah, OMGUS, blah blah." You could've made this a lot easier for me to respond to by simply saying, "Hey bro, I think you're case on him is OMGUS, and why didn't you choose to continue to push the HezLucky lynch?" Then I could've given you a very simple defense, and a very simple answer as to why my reads changed. Instead what did you do? You didn't ask, you didn't really want to know, you just simply accused. You're whole focus here doesn't seem to be to find the truth, but instead to cast suspicion. I find that scummy, because why wouldn't the townie want to go in the RIGHT direction with clarity, and not in the direction that SEEMS right, but has never actually been clarified?

Bold #2. You answered it in your suspicion. Because YOU were being attacked. Your battle is not my battle, and I must not have seen that. Please take note however, that NOBODY else in this game has mentioned him doing that to you.

Bold #3. When someone comes on the scene, and suddenly their scum-drops seem to just explode (especially with a falty, stretched, fake case), you don't buy someone changing their suspicions because of that? This is a matter of playing style then, and I can't argue against your style.

Bold #4. I don't expect you to actually read my posts, and understand what I'm saying all the time. So I won't come from a "You didn't read my posts!" perspective but instead, I'll say this. If I did not give a reason for not voting HezLucky for most of Day 2, it's because I had no reason to vote him particularly above others.

ISOing CJ was to no avail, as my suspicions brought me with 4 possible suspects of his partners (which obviously is wrong, as there can only be 2 partners of his.) They are:

Hez,

Deity

, Sloth, and

DK

.

Lol. I guess you find DeityKabuto twice as suspicious as the other two players? Who is

really

your fourth suspect for cjdrum's partner?

Obviously I don't suspect him twice. Honestly, I don't remember what was on my mind when I was posting that, but there was a 4th man that must've been replaced by "DK" by accident. I have a lot of new reads and I've read over the thread a few times since then, so my mindset has changed a good amount from that post.

From the point of your post, I believe that's all the suspicion you attempted to cast. I hope I answered it, and if not feel free to question me again.

Regfan, you're case seemed to have been summed of as follows...

Spoiler: Regfan

1. It revolves around his decline in content, his avoidance of the spotlight whenever he's not mentions.

This is your opinion. I can't argue this fairly. There are numerous reasons as to why my declince in content could've happened, and my "avoidance of the spotlight", if that is indeed what I've been doing, could have numerous reasons as well. It's your opinion that it is scummy, because you do not know the reasons why. For now, let's forget about the V/LA and just think Neil must not actually have a real life, and that he really is just such scum in this game with his mind so wrapped up in it, that he's taking a fake break all the while actually getting in our heads thinking he's away.

2. The lack of stances he takes in regards to reads, he attempts to Omgus or defend himself rather than actually scumhunt.

The only stance in which you can state I remotely took OMGUS in, is Deity. Other than that, prove that I have not scumhunted? Here's the problem before you try, you can't. Again, that's a matter of opinion. Remember, I was on the lynch for Mafia Member CJ? Yeah, with MY help, we lynched a MAFIA member. That's scum hunting, rather you're little mind likes it or not.

3. His interactions or lackthereof with Cjdrum reads as if they're partners, especially due to Cjdrum stating "One of Empking/Neil are scum" and never voting Neil upon Empkings flip.

I can't defend CJ's actions. If you have a case against ME, make it. Not against a US, because a WE cannot be accurately defended in this situation. However, my lack of interaction with CJ is very simple. He never really caused an outcry in my mind that would spark my full interest. Thus he slipped by under my radar for most of that day.

4. PoE, I have quite solid town-reads on Wicked/MoI and I don't see Cjdrum being the last townie.

PoE is not a scum-hunting tactic. It's not stable, it's never produced confident reads, it's likely wrong more times then not, and in cases like this, it could make you play against your win condition and lynch town.

and slide through the game.

Do you consider a V/LA to be "sliding through the game?" Or are you referring to something else with this?

Magna, you're posts:

Spoiler: MagnaofIllusion.. or something like that

After reviewing neil's ISO I think Regs' summary of the case on Neil is pretty accurate.

His activity has dropped WAY off after the day one blow-up with Empking. He's not committed to any strong reads or even voted Day 3. I don't see a strong push towards Havingfitz Scum developing so I'd rather have my vote somewhere effective.

You reitterated exactly what Reggie said. So instead of making a response AGAIN to it, look at my responses to him.

Why didn't you actually vote DK in this post (would not take any time) if you are sure he is scum as opposed to leaving your vote idle. I eagerly await the explanation for this.

Because I hate when Wagons form and I'm not around to see it form / see it to completion. If Deity starts to get pressured, and his responses suddenly convince me he's town, but nobody else sees it, I'd like to step in and defend him. I can't if I'm away at V/LA. I'm not sure if this is the response you're looking for.

I think he is likely Werewolf. I have a strong Hez is Evil Sheep read and I can’t buy that all three Evil Sheep were on the Empking L-1 wagon.

PoE again. Why do we fall into this fallacy?

Okay I think that's everyone. Now so that you all know what to look forward to, and what's to come:

1. An analaysis of the last 6 pages.
2. My reads.
3. Why I'm confident that Magna is a Wolf.
4. Why I'm pretty sure that Hez is his partner. (Whatatwist!)
5. Why I'm not hunting for Mafia right now, though my suspicions for the final two are Wicked and Regfan (though neither of these reads could I stand on.)

[neil1113]

So this means you'll be vote #3 on the Magna wagon yes?

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET

Yeah I'm actually pretty excited. I think this will be another town win under my belt! For the record, you may have to wait a bit for it though. Reading a book, eating lunch, and then I might get back to the final post.

[neil1113]

Wow all that, and I forgot to place my vote. VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

[neil1113]

VOTE: Regfan.

Reg and Havingfitz are werewolves, and they are totally playing each off each other here. I'm Mafia, but I'm not a Warewolf. I'm likely going to be dead tonight. So I'm laying all on the table so that the Wolves don't gain the win. The whole day start between them too is completely forced and rehearsed. And it's painfully obvious. Lynch Reg today, see for yourself, then lynch Fitz tomorrow after he kills me tonight. Then it'll be a battle between my partner and town, but the killing faction will be out of both of our hairs and so this will be beneficial to both us and the town, getting rid of them first.

[neil1113]

Regfan, you can only counter claim now. You've been caught. Pretty simple. When you get lynched and flip wolf, everyone will know. I find it funny though, you do the only thing scum would do in your situation. "No, YOUR the werewolf!" Funny that before I called you out, you NEVER mentioned me being werewolf with such certainty as that post. Ironic isn't it?

So you'll die, and then your partner will kill me, and then he'll get lynched tomorrow. GG Werewolf, but you're done. I dare you to counter claim Mafia, just to make this situation even MORE ironic.

[neil1113]

Regfan, you can only counter claim now. You've been caught. Pretty simple. When you get lynched and flip wolf, everyone will know. I find it funny though, you do the only thing scum would do in your situation. "No, YOUR the werewolf!" Funny that before I called you out, you NEVER mentioned me being werewolf with such certainty as that post. Ironic isn't it?

So you'll die, and then your partner will kill me, and then he'll get lynched tomorrow. GG Werewolf, but you're done. I dare you to counter claim Mafia, just to make this situation even MORE ironic.

Just kidding, didn't see this last page. YOU DID claim sheep.

People, you do realize that Reg and Fitz are werewolves? Lynch me today Deity if you wish, but you'll lose the game. Remember, why would I purposely claim Mafia just to get counter claimed, KNOWING that there's already you and Reg looking to push my lynch today? Isn't it highly likely I wouldn't be believed anyways? I wouldn't take that chance. Simple.

Regfan, if you can convince the town to lynch me, instead of you, I'll tip my hat to you. Good game werewolf. I'll even add you to my sig, as a sign of respect. But all in all, when night comes, all will be revealed, and you'll be lynched tomorrow. So fight as hard as you want, you can't avoid the initial death of you and your partner you werewolves, you can only delay it.

By the way, all the points you've broughten against me doesn't prove I'm a werewolf. Just scum. And I've already claimed what side I'm on. And you're NOT my partner. Which makes you Werewolf. Simple. Goodbye.

[neil1113]

"Over and over again" But I only did it once?

"I've realized your plan actually" But I'm Mafia? I have the quick topic to prove it. And you, are werewolf.

[neil1113]

With VI Deity, and Regfan knowingly pushing for my lynch before the day began, I felt the only response I could've given was a claim. So that we could focus on lynching Werewolves. However, when Regfan counter claimed me I knew I was finished because I wasn't playing this game to my potential, and therefore would lose the battle with Reg's as far as town perceptions. Meaning I knew more people would side with Reg, because Deity wouldn't let up on lynching me. To be fair, I'm pretty sure Deity lost this game for the town. If he would've thought about what he was doing instead of playing as a Village Idiot, he'd probably have drawn a different conclusion.

Muffin, I wish we could've played together in a greater game. Where everyone is logically arguing and having cases, and not really a game where every case was based off of... well... nothing. I'm not good at faking nothing, so I normally try to avoid playing as much as possible. If it were logical cases, I'd have been more then happy to jump in and show you my potential. Oh well. You were a fun Mafia partner, and I hope to be partners with you again sometime in the future. Good game.

CJ, sucks that you were eliminated so quickly in this game. We could've used you. I tried not to cast any more suspicion on you, but when it was all said in done, it'd have been suspicious of me NOT to put a vote on you. I tried to frame LynchMePls with your vote, that way he'd be the lynch choice of tomorrow. But of course, the town was not really a town in this game, so they didn't choose to listen to anyones advice. It kind of seemed like everyone had their own agenda, and went at it. I think looking back on it now, if we did a little bit more planning, and you stayed alive, we could've brought this game to it's knees and easily gained a win. Oh well, like I said to Muffin, you're an excellent partner, and you made for a great teammate. You never tied us to you with your words or actions, and I thank you for that. I hope to team with you again as well!

Havingfitz, you're a great Mafia player. I've had the honor of playing with you several times, and honestly I have a desire to jump into games that you have /inned. Luckily you replaced into this one! I really enjoy arguing, debating, and making cases against you. Unfortunately I've never gotten the chance to be on a team with you, but maybe some time shortly! Thanks for making this game really fun, and as you can see in the Mafia QT, even though I was pretty sure you were teammates with Regfan, I was reluctant to call you that. I think I'm biased towards you as town. Lol. Good game.

Regfan, I wish I was playing to my maximum potential! Ah shucks! Oh well! I enjoyed fighting with you, and arguing with you. I just wish I would've been around to argue more, and show you my true debating attitude! Maybe next time? Very good game, and way to play the poor, weakened town.

[neil1113]

Oh! Almost forgot! Magna, you as well were extremely fun to play with! However... WHY COULDN'T YOU HAVE BEEN WEREWOLF? Would've saved me a ton of time, and we (Mafia) probably would've won. You and Hez's argument did look fake to me admittedly, so that was what the majority of my case on you two were. Since me and Muffin were the Mafia, that left you two either being town, or Werewolf. And I was willing to bank on Werewolf. Unfortunately I was wrong. But good game Magna, I look forward to playing with you again.

[neil1113]

Wow guys...

[neil1113]

VOTE: No lynch

Scum lmAFO

I ROFL'D THIS IS POOR SCUM PLAY

GUYS REGFAN OR NEIL, IT DOESNT MATTER WHO WE LYNCHED, WE KNOW THEY ARE BOTH SCUM, SO LET'S END IT AND STOP THEM FROM LIVING, TWO TOWNS LEFT (one is me), WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE

.. what?

[neil1113]

DK...have you realized the game is over yet? And cj is still dead in here?

OH LOL GAME OVER. WELP I WAS RIGHT ABOUT MY READS, GG GUYS

And do you realize that you lost the game for Town because of your desperate need to tunnel me?