Open 302: JUNGLE REPUB nope game over! Party time!

[Empking]

Hez: When did I ever say that neil was calling me scum for my playstyle? Its irrelevant and an absurd misrepresentation of the point.

What? When did I ever say this? Your question is an absurd misrepresentation of the point.

OK. Explain to me why it was relevant for MOI to bring that up?

Hez: Why are you saying that you're annoyed about the spam but look favourable on neil and MOI doing what they did to cause the spam? (I'm a simple creature. Whenever I'm suspicious of someone who refuses to scumhunt or answer my questions I post like that. Its a habit IO try to avoid.)

I hate hate hate hate hate the spam

I could have sworn a minute ago you praised neil for causing it? And now you hate it? That doesn't make sense to me.

If you lynch everyone who urks you that is a quick way to lose the game. The only thing I can do is meta them out of future games I play.
On the other hand, your sixth ISO made me highly uncomfortable, as explained above, and the seventh basically sealed the deal. You were pressured and I did not at all like your response.

What specifically about my response didn't you like?

[Regfan]

A counterexample does not discredit the entire thing. I've seen people fake claim as town does that mean that fake claiming isn't a scum tell?

This is correct, however your argument for MoI being mafia seesms to highly hinge on his defence of Neil rather than much else.

'm sorry, but I'm not sure which of this seems to come from scum motivation, therefore I don't know how to adequately defend myself? Twisted hasn't really posted anything of value that I remember seeing (which his ISO proved when I did ISO him), and so I was posting my thought process.

You didn't even take the time to read the post I quoted of you? It never mentioned TS, not once, the post was about your suspicion of Deity. I'm feeling comfortable with my vote right now.

HezLucky - Can you attempt to explain what you mean by "Makes me feel uncomfortable", which part of MoI's #8 and Empkings #6 seem off?

[Empking]

A counterexample does not discredit the entire thing. I've seen people fake claim as town does that mean that fake claiming isn't a scum tell?

This is correct, however your argument for MoI being mafia seesms to highly hinge on his defence of Neil rather than much else.

No MOI is scum because

1. He's making statements he knows to be untrue (like the leading, loaded questions deal) (we know he knows them to be true because he refuses to explain why he thinks the question was loaded and leading).
2. He editted a quote in order to misrepresent a point.

Both of those things would only come from scum and he objectively did the second (as in it isn't my opinion or my deduction its straight up in black and white).

[neil1113]

A counterexample does not discredit the entire thing. I've seen people fake claim as town does that mean that fake claiming isn't a scum tell?

This is correct, however your argument for MoI being mafia seesms to highly hinge on his defence of Neil rather than much else.

'm sorry, but I'm not sure which of this seems to come from scum motivation, therefore I don't know how to adequately defend myself? Twisted hasn't really posted anything of value that I remember seeing (which his ISO proved when I did ISO him), and so I was posting my thought process.

You didn't even take the time to read the post I quoted of you? It never mentioned TS, not once, the post was about your suspicion of Deity. I'm feeling comfortable with my vote right now.

HezLucky - Can you attempt to explain what you mean by "Makes me feel uncomfortable", which part of MoI's #8 and Empkings #6 seem off?

That post was intended for TS. Not Deity. That's my mistake. I thought I clarified it.

Emp, I've grown tired of arguing with you. It gets nowhere. You can answer my questions, or not. You're choice. If you really want an answer, you can explain what you mean. Otherwise, continue to make your stretches and call me scum. I could care less what you say at this point concerning me.

[DeityKabuto]

hmm

if this game had only one scum faction I'd be tempted to say one of neil/empking/magna has to be scum after these interactions

however it's more complicated since there's 2

hmmm

I agree with this.

And right now it looks as if Empking is more scummy than niel.

If Empking turns out to be scum then neil may be townie, since I don't think two scums would get into pages long of debates against each other, and I can't see both of them working together as scum. So for now, it's best if we get Empking lynched. This is my conclusion after skimming through lots of the conversation between Empking and neil.

[Empking]

hmm

if this game had only one scum faction I'd be tempted to say one of neil/empking/magna has to be scum after these interactions

however it's more complicated since there's 2

hmmm

I agree with this.

And right now it looks as if Empking is more scummy than niel.

If Empking turns out to be scum then neil may be townie, since I don't think two scums would get into pages long of debates against each other, and I can't see both of them working together as scum. So for now, it's best if we get Empking lynched. This is my conclusion after skimming through lots of the conversation between Empking and neil.

DK: If I flip Mafia, neil is not a wolf because...?

[DeityKabuto]

Also, as I said earlier, both Empking and niel's conversation, some of it seems pointless, and seems to be going back and forth, a conversation to get both sides opinions over and over, not really is that important, except we get to see their playstyle and we can use our own bias to determine who looks more scummier. But, as of now, it's not really helping the townie in any way except how I mentioned in the post above.

[DeityKabuto]

hmm

if this game had only one scum faction I'd be tempted to say one of neil/empking/magna has to be scum after these interactions

however it's more complicated since there's 2

hmmm

I agree with this.

And right now it looks as if Empking is more scummy than niel.

If Empking turns out to be scum then neil may be townie, since I don't think two scums would get into pages long of debates against each other, and I can't see both of them working together as scum. So for now, it's best if we get Empking lynched. This is my conclusion after skimming through lots of the conversation between Empking and neil.

DK: If I flip Mafia, neil is not a wolf because...?

Oh, I blindly forgot that their are "two" evil forces. But if you are a Mafia, and Empking is a werewolf, then he is more of a threat since he has that night kill. But I am just making assumptions if you flip Mafia.

[DeityKabuto]

Getting rid of the Werewolfs is more important than Mafia since Mafia have their only win condition like a third party. To sum it all up, either you or Niel could be werewolf.

[Regfan]

1. He's making statements he knows to be untrue (like the leading, loaded questions deal) (we know he knows them to be true because he refuses to explain why he thinks the question was loaded and leading).

You'll need to be way more specific about this, I just went through his ISO and found I agree with most of his points.

2. He editted a quote in order to misrepresent a point.

I read through this multiple times. It reads more like an attempted smear campaign however given the context it was in I find it to be unallignment related. Think about it this way:

ScumMoI would want to attempt to cast suspicion and misrepresent your words to have you lynched.
TownMoI would want to attempt to cast suspicion and misrepresent your words because he believes you're mafia and wants you lynched.

Neil - If you have already clariffied it my fault, do you mind linking me to the post you did so though?

Deity - Let me get this right, you agree with Twisted saying this is more complicated due to there being two mafia teams. Then you move on to say that if Empking flips scum Neil is town?

[DeityKabuto]

Btw, host, could you please list the people Not Posting/Inactives in the next vote count?

[Empking]

Oh, I blindly forgot that their are "two" evil forces. But if you are a Mafia, and Empking is a werewolf, then he is more of a threat since he has that night kill. But I am just making assumptions if you flip Mafia.

Please tell me that that has not impacted your thinking. Please.

DK: What actions have I done that were scummy?

You'll need to be way more specific about this, I just went through his ISO and found I agree with most of his points.

That's what you'd expect to happen when the majority of your points are both uncontroversial and unrelated to the game at hand (like the neil didn't say your playstyle made you scum point).

From memory:
Me: Neil why didn't you answer my question?
MOI (popping up almost as if they were buddies): Your question was leading and loaded.
Me: Why?
MOI:

Refusal to answer it

ScumMoI would want to attempt to cast suspicion and misrepresent your words to have you lynched.
TownMoI would want to attempt to cast suspicion and misrepresent your words because he believes you're mafia and wants you lynched.

No. ScumMOI doesn't care who he lynches as long as it isn't him or neil (and as such would misrepresent my words). TownMOI wants the truth to come out and lynch scum and feels that since he's only human he should allow people to come to their own opinions because he's not necessarily right (and thius would not misrepresent my words).

[neil1113]

Neil - If you have already clariffied it my fault, do you mind linking me to the post you did so though?

I looked with zeal for that post, and then realized I never posted it. I don't know why I didn't post it, but now I feel like an idiot. I never clarified it, therefore your vote is understandable. I can't really defend either, except by saying sorry? That sucks.

[DeityKabuto]

Um... Empking, how I see it, it's kind of like your play style in this game. You quote everyone who has attacked you/or has something to say against you as if you are trying to hide something or convince that you are Townie and get them off your backs fast enough. But I also noted that you've switched your vote around, but I don't know if people think that's scummy or not. I don't have much experience.

[Empking]

Um... Empking, how I see it, it's kind of like your play style in this game. You quote everyone who has attacked you/or has something to say against you as if you are trying to hide something or convince that you are Townie and get them off your backs fast enough. But I also noted that you've switched your vote around, but I don't know if people think that's scummy or not. I don't have much experience.

1. You think I'm trying to convince neil and MOI that I'm town?
2. You think that in order to hide something I respond to every point against me? Why do I do that? OR what are the mechanics of how that works?

[DeityKabuto]

Um... Empking, how I see it, it's kind of like your play style in this game. You quote everyone who has attacked you/or has something to say against you as if you are trying to hide something or convince that you are Townie and get them off your backs fast enough. But I also noted that you've switched your vote around, but I don't know if people think that's scummy or not. I don't have much experience.

1. You think I'm trying to convince neil and MOI that I'm town?
2. You think that in order to hide something I respond to every point against me? Why do I do that? OR what are the mechanics of how that works?

Uh... It should be everyone's goal to convince people that they are townie. Are you saying that you are Mafia, and you are not trying to convince neil and MOI because they are your Mafia partners?

[Empking]

Um... Empking, how I see it, it's kind of like your play style in this game. You quote everyone who has attacked you/or has something to say against you as if you are trying to hide something or convince that you are Townie and get them off your backs fast enough. But I also noted that you've switched your vote around, but I don't know if people think that's scummy or not. I don't have much experience.

1. You think I'm trying to convince neil and MOI that I'm town?
2. You think that in order to hide something I respond to every point against me? Why do I do that? OR what are the mechanics of how that works?

Uh... It should be everyone's goal to convince people that they are townie. Are you saying that you are Mafia, and you are not trying to convince neil and MOI because they are your Mafia partners?

or convince that you are Townie and get them off your backs fast enough.

Can you answer the second question BTW.

[DeityKabuto]

Well sometimes Mafia may tend to want nobody to see them as suspicious, which is an act of scum/suspicious itself.

Normal townspeople really don't tend to have to prove to everyone that they are not scum, it just comes by their behavior and how well they act like a townie.

Does that answer your question?

[Empking]

Well sometimes Mafia may tend to want nobody to see them as suspicious, which is an act of scum/suspicious itself.

Normal townspeople really don't tend to have to prove to everyone that they are not scum, it just comes by their behavior and how well they act like a townie.

Uh... It should be everyone's goal to convince people that they are townie.

Does that answer your question?

No.

[DeityKabuto]

Um. Right now you aren't making that much sense or putting any effort into your posts. That just makes me suspect you to be a Scum.

[Empking]

Um. Right now you aren't making that much sense

Why do you say that?

or putting any effort into your posts.

Why do you say that?

[DeityKabuto]

I won't even bother to answer that. It's pretty obvious, and the next person who comes across this page will even understand that you aren't putting any effort.

[Regfan]

No. ScumMOI doesn't care who he lynches as long as it isn't him or neil (and as such would misrepresent my words). TownMOI wants the truth to come out and lynch scum and feels that since he's only human he should allow people to come to their own opinions because he's not necessarily right (and thius would not misrepresent my words).

ScumMOI wants to avoid suspicion therefore does care how he acts and who he lynches, therefore he won't attempt to string together weak pieces of evidence to push the lynch. TownMOI wants to lynch mafia, he has stated he believes you're mafia therefore he does everything he can to get you lynched.

I looked with zeal for that post, and then realized I never posted it. I don't know why I didn't post it, but now I feel like an idiot. I never clarified it, therefore your vote is understandable. I can't really defend either, except by saying sorry? That sucks.

Ugh. Not the reaction I was expecting at all, I thought you would attempt to deny the existance of such a scum-tell. I'm going to move my vote back for now, Twisted is still refraining from posting anything ressembling content.

Unvote: Neil113
Vote: TwistedSpoon

[Empking]

No. ScumMOI doesn't care who he lynches as long as it isn't him or neil (and as such would misrepresent my words). TownMOI wants the truth to come out and lynch scum and feels that since he's only human he should allow people to come to their own opinions because he's not necessarily right (and thius would not misrepresent my words).

ScumMOI wants to avoid suspicion therefore does care how he acts and who he lynches, therefore he won't attempt to string together weak pieces of evidence to push the lynch. TownMOI wants to lynch mafia, he has stated he believes you're mafia therefore he does everything he can to get you lynched.

Are you seriously suggesting that dishonestly trying to get another player lynched is a town tell?

[Regfan]

Are you seriously suggesting that dishonestly trying to get another player lynched is a town tell?

No, I'm suggesting that MoI misquotting you is a null-tell and that you're tunnelling on him without standing back and realizing that his play is understandable from a town and scum point of view, thus nothing to base the crux of your case around.