Newbie 1086 (GAME OVER)

[Stefunny]

Side note:

Also, not liking how the focus today is all on Matt/Jason. Some of the other players need to step up with the activity and quality of posts- TOGTFO, Jerako, Runner in particular.

Yea...I replaced Runner, but I agree that we should be looking at other options as well.

[Zachrulez]

1st vote count of day 2:

JasonT1981 - 2 (MagnaofIllusion, projectmatt)
projectmatt - 1 (JasonT1981)

Not voting (TOGTFO, Jerako, Stefunny, Space Pope)

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch.

Day Two will end no later than 10am CST on Monday May 16th.

[projectmatt]

In regards to post #167:
Jason actually DOES point out his interactions with MOI. #253 So therefore

After Jason is accused of not interacting with MOI, he responds with this, but refuses to give any kind of proof, and even after being asked, never does. Dodging the questions.

Is untrue.
The only argument you make in that massive post that I agree with is your reference to post# 276. I agree that Jason's argument at that point was completely WIFOM, but I don't see the "pathetic excuse" that you refer to.

If you are going to accuse Jason of blindly tunneling Mogri and then you maybe you should consider that yourself. Even if Jason is scum who do you think is his buddy? Who else would be your scum pick at this point?

Ah, I rest my case then. I must have missed that\forgotten about it. My bad.

But with that being said, I dislike how you mainly every other point because I was mistaken on one or two. Why do you disagree with the rest of my arguments, or rather, how do you disagree with them? Did Jason never change his personality? Does he not jump on the easy targets? Tell me.

I'll actually admit that I'm not too keen on my other reads yet, but the blindest guess I have would be Space Pope\MOI

if

Jason flips scum.. (which is what I desperately need.)

[jasonT1981]

The first thing I am going to reply to right now is Matt saying about my comments of 'I am not going to repeat my reasons'

I feel my reasons were well documented many times in the game and were completely ignored by Morgi, and now yourself to make me look bad by saying I did not answer them or give anything to address them when I had.

Ste makes a very good point above as to exactly what was missed ( just like interactions with MOI shown in 253 yet yuo still said I had none) because people (Matt, Morgi) were to lazy to look back and see I had already answered/responded to them and their questions. yet

STILL

are saying I had not.

Simply put... I had stated my reasons time and again, and to ask me for them yet again was futile and a waste of time. THAT is why I did not post them again...

@Matt, MOI

ALSO

refused to state his reasons again too..... why is this scummy for me but not a word said about him? we both did the same thing in refusing to reiterate our points...

Major double standards there, Matt

they had already been well documented and Morgi was blind to them saying he wanted to see our reasons when we already had shown them when he asked all who were voting him as to why they were)

I backed up my reasoning, and actions many times... you just failed to see it as has been proven by Ste above.


Actually, while I am here....

POST 276: @MOI... as scum, what benefit would I get out of pushing someone (as scum) I knew was town on day 1? surely as scum I would have known I would be drawing heat right off the bat day 2?

T

his is Jason's first post after Mogri flipped townie. Instead of just going "you know what, sometimes I'm wrong, deal with it."

, he makes a pathetic excuse and uses wifom as his argument. Gah.

Funny how you ALSO miss this???? And guess what...

it WAS ALSO IN MY FIRST POST AFTER MORGI FLIPPED TOWN!!!!

Love how you cut out half of what I say to make a case but lets look at my the bottom of my post you cut out shall we?

I was wrong about Morgi I admit

, I probably tunneled a little too much but it was my complete belief he was scum due to the things I had outlined and argued with him over in day 1.

Something else Convienitly(sp?) missed like the interactions with MOI to once again make a case on me look bad! seriousl, how many times am I going to be misrepped... lied about in this game to make me look scummy? So, how can you justify that now, Matt? thats now twice you have been shown to misrep/lie while making a case on me

now, lets move onto something else I have covered THREE TIMES ALREADY in this game, but again is ignored.. the question as to why I was coasting a bit towards the end of day 1...

2) yea, I kinda have been slacking.. I am suffering a bit of Mafia Burnout right now its just hard to get myself into the game at times.

. I also explained why I was 'coasting' as you have put it. During the latter part of Day 1 I was suffering high mafia burnout due to being in too many games.

Scrap that one.. I am getting games confused...

Hence the reason I was getting burn out, too many games at once making it hard to keep track..

I am SINCERELY happy with my vote right now on Matt.. nothing but lies and misreps about me right now.

[jasonT1981]

OK I see you retract the above and see you were wrong however.

But with that being said, I dislike how you mainly every other point because I was mistaken on one or two. Why do you disagree with the rest of my arguments, or rather, how do you disagree with them? Did Jason never change his personality?

Does he not jump on the easy targets? Tell me.

Are you saying you are an easy target, or Morgi was an easy target?

because if you are the easy target... I am the only vote on you.

If Morgi was the easy target.. why was there four other votes on him..

I went, and am going after who I thought were scum, not 'easy targets' as you put them.

Now Matt, IF you were reviewing all my posts and discecting them in your big post.. how did you miss the big post showing my interactions with MOI? I mean it was easy to find, especially if you were going through EVERY other post of mine..

that does not seem right.

[projectmatt]

First point is that MOI DID state his reasons. You sheeped him, in some way or another. You're contradicting yourself, as you claimed earlier that MOI had given great reasons as to why Mogri is scum, and you weren't repeating it because it's already been said.

Oh, and I did note the second part of your post, but I didn't keep it in, like I didn't quote the full posts for many of my quotes. I didn't want it to be ultra long. You said "I admit I was wrong on Mogri", but not without a "but", and not before saying all of that wifom stuff.


I'm saying that runner, mogri and I are essentially, "the easy targets" at this moment. It's perfectly fine to FOS the apparent most scummy, but the fact that you only push on those and barely even change your focus to the others make me think that you are jumping for the easy bait.

a lot of votes on someone, and the fact that they're generally suspected, DOES MAKE THEM THE EASY TARGET.

I was going through every post of yours, and I missed one that accidentally contradicted my point. I feel secure in this vote, also.

[jasonT1981]

a lot of votes on someone, and the fact that they're generally suspected, DOES MAKE THEM THE EASY TARGET

.

This would be a valid point... IF the vote counts do not contridict what you are pushing.

Mogri - 5 (MagnaofIllusion,

JasonT1981,

Darkcoffeejazz, Space Pope, Jerako)

I wasn't only the 2nd person to vote Morgi....

And...lets look at you

projectmatt - 2 (

Jasont1981,

Space Pope)

The

FIRST

one to be voting you early day 1

AND THE ONLY ONE VOTING YOU TODAY

projectmatt - 1 (

JasonT1981)

So... given I was the first one on you both yesterday, and today... and the 2nd one on Morgi.. show me how that makes you both easy targets with, and I quote 'lots of votes on them'

Now, since when does first vote and second vote constitute 'lots of votes' and 'easy target'

[jasonT1981]

First point is that MOI DID state his reasons. You sheeped him, in some way or another. You're contradicting yourself, as you claimed earlier that MOI had given great reasons as to why Mogri is scum, and you weren't repeating it because it's already been said.

Actually MOI said

I'm still here.

It sounds like I've got four different votes on me for four different reasons. Can you four explain your votes?

Quite frankly - I'm not going to repeat my reasoning. I've made it clear in thread and we've been round and round about it

. Unless you have something new to add to the discussion I'm not really interested in rehashing things. I'm not trying to convince you that you are scum. Others have clearly indicated that they've seen enough of the argument.

point 1 disproven. also show me where I said MOI had shown 'great reasons'

Oh, and I did note the second part of your post, but I didn't keep it in, like I didn't quote the full posts for many of my quotes. I didn't want it to be ultra long. You said "I admit I was wrong on Mogri", but not without a "but", and not before saying all of that wifom stuff.

Yes, you conviently took out the part saying I admit I was wrong, then say that instead of saying I admit I was wrong I give a pathetic excuse..

T

his is Jason's first post after Mogri flipped townie. Instead of just going "you know what, sometimes I'm wrong, deal with it."

, he makes a pathetic excuse and uses wifom as his argument. Gah.

Point 2 disproven - why take out something I said, then make out I did not say it at all?

I'm saying that runner, mogri and I are essentially, "the easy targets" at this moment. It's perfectly fine to FOS the apparent most scummy, but the fact that you only push on those and barely even change your focus to the others make me think that you are jumping for the easy bait.

a lot of votes on someone, and the fact that they're generally suspected, DOES MAKE THEM THE EASY TARGET.

I was going through every post of yours, and I missed one that accidentally contradicted my point. I feel secure in this vote, also.

Point 3 - Disproven as in my above post..

Seriously, how many times are you going to lie/misrep/and say I didnt say things when I did?

I have countered everyone of your points and you have been proven many times wrong...

about me you have been wrong on

1) my interactions with MOI when you said I had none..
2) Your math when you said it would not be mislynch when I showed it would be
3) saying my easy targets had lots of votes when they didn't as I was either 1st or 2nd votes on them you claim runner is one of these easy targets yet I have NEVER had a vote on Runner....

4) the fact I DID admit I was wrong, yet you took it out to make me look bad
5) I had not given any reasons on Morgi, when I had


anything else I am missing here?

[MagnaofIllusion]

In the Jason versus Project debate that has been recently dominating the thread I have to say that Jason seems to have the more solid arguments in the exchange.

@Jerako, TOGTFO

– you both need to make some sort of solid post outlining you scum suspect soon.

--

MOI- Yes, I meant you. Sorry 'bout that. You didn't answer which of the two you felt would be scummier. You say you have strong concerns (infering that you mean you think he could be scum?). Not very solid, whereas you are willing to vote Jason for sheeping. I'm just curious as to why you are voting Jason over Matt.

You asked a generic question about which ‘tell’ is scummier. I didn’t answer because there is no inherent ‘scumminess’ chain for tells. I’m not deriving my vote on Jason just for sheeping. That should be clear from my statements today and yesterday. Context and the specifics of any 'tell' are just as important as the tell itself.

I think my first post of the day made clear that Project was one of my three top scum reads along with Jason and Stefunny for the reasons indicated. If you didn’t see that clearly stated I think you now can go back and review.

@SpacePope

– Is your suspicion of TOGTFO, Jerako and Stefunny solely based on lack of activity or do you have other things you find suspect?

--

I'll actually admit that I'm not too keen on my other reads yet, but the blindest guess I have would be Space Pope\MOI if Jason flips scum.. (which is what I desperately need.)

Why do you desperately need Jason to flip scum?

Also Project you never (that I can see) answered my question about describing your thought process on how this was LYLO. Please do so in your next post.

[Space Pope]

MOI- I know, I like asking questions I already know You haven't unvoted Jason yet, which is what I would expect since you are "siding" with Jason a bit more. Also, I never said the less active are scummy, just that they need to post more. It would be easy for scum to hide in the background.

Stefunny- Must have forgotten about that... even though Runner was lurking/inactive I find this slot to be townie, as everything I think in response to the above, Stefunny posts before I do.

TOGTFO- Do you think Matt has been purposely misrepping Jason?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI- I know, I like asking questions I already know You haven't unvoted Jason yet, which is what I would expect since you are "siding" with Jason a bit more. Also, I never said the less active are scummy, just that they need to post more. It would be easy for scum to hide in the background

Make no mistake - just because I think Jason is doing a better job of arguing with Project doesn't mean I don't think he's scum. He just is making better and more cogent points.

Notice that he's once again fixated on ONE player (this time Project) and that his 'suspicion' of Stefunny is just window dressing. He hasn't addressed her once.

He's still playing quite clearly to his scum meta.

[projectmatt]

This would be a valid point... IF the vote counts do not contridict what you are pushing.

I never claimed that just because somebody doesn't have a lot of votes means they're not the easy target, but rather, I was using Mogri as an example, because he was the easy target with a lot of votes.

This would be a valid point... IF the vote counts do not contridict what you are pushing.

Mogri - 5 (MagnaofIllusion,

JasonT1981,

Darkcoffeejazz, Space Pope, Jerako)

I wasn't only the 2nd person to vote Morgi....

And...lets look at you

projectmatt - 2 (

Jasont1981,

Space Pope)

The

FIRST

one to be voting you early day 1

AND THE ONLY ONE VOTING YOU TODAY

projectmatt - 1 (

JasonT1981)

So... given I was the first one on you both yesterday, and today... and the 2nd one on Morgi.. show me how that makes you both easy targets with, and I quote 'lots of votes on them'

Now, since when does first vote and second vote constitute 'lots of votes' and 'easy target'

The easy target doesn't have to have a gazillion votes on him, but it has to be someone who is generally suspected, or has done something particularly scummy that you can work on.

And I know, I know, you're going to say that if somebody did something scummy, of course you're going to suspect them, right? But the matter of the fact is that you take that easy bait and you never let go. You refuse to focus on anybody else instead, and you just mindlessly tunnel and try to find "scum slips" in those people. They are the easy targets, and I believe that you're trying to sound like you're trying to sound open to other people, since you randomly FOS'D Runner out of the blue. (He's an easy guy to suspect, too. Lurking and all of that stuff.)

1) my interactions with MOI when you said I had none..
2) Your math when you said it would not be mislynch when I showed it would be
3) saying my easy targets had lots of votes when they didn't as I was either 1st or 2nd votes on them you claim runner is one of these easy targets yet I have NEVER had a vote on Runner....

1. No, you had none\close to any. You directly spoke to each other in around one post, but aside from that you either just saw MOI as a null read, or you just seconded what he said. You've made no real attempt to actually go after him at all, which is what I mean. I lied about nothing, as I had previously pointed out the one post (out of the hundreds) where you two have specifically addresed each other.

2. Sure, I was wrong about the math, but what the hell does that signify? I'm unintelligent? It has nothing to do with my suspicions on you.

3. See above. ^^

In the Jason versus Project debate that has been recently dominating the thread I have to say that Jason seems to have the more solid arguments in the exchange.

Question: Does the fact that Jason frequently change personalities seem odd to you?

Why do you desperately need Jason to flip scum?

Also Project you never (that I can see) answered my question about describing your thought process on how this was LYLO. Please do so in your next post.

That was worded awkwardly. I mean that I would love to see what Jason flips, and if he flips scum, it's exactly what I need to help solidify my reads. Also, I don't claim to be amazing at arguing over these things, but the goal was to explain in depth why I was voting for Jason, and why it wasn't mindless\had a good basis.

I actually did answer that question, but you seemed to have missed it. Allow me to quote my response from 295. I'd also appreciate it if you answered my question.

There's not really a certain process of how I did the math, there were just more players and more mafia then I remembered.

Also, care to voice these concerns you have over my playing?

[jasonT1981]

There's not really a certain process of how I did the math, there were just more players

and more mafia

then I remembered.

Also, care to voice these concerns you have over my playing?

[/quote]

there is only two mafia. how are there more than you remembered? did you somehow only think there was only one mafia?

[jasonT1981]

or am I reading you wrong on this and you were thinking there was more mafia?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Question: Does the fact that Jason frequently change personalities seem odd to you?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Change of personalities?

I actually did answer that question, but you seemed to have missed it. Allow me to quote my response from 295. I'd also appreciate it if you answered my question.

Your answer doesn’t make sense which is why I wanted further details.

What do you mean by more players and more Mafia than you remembered?

Also, care to voice these concerns you have over my playing?

I voiced my concerns right out of the gate today. You responded to them. I’m not particularly sold on your answers at the present time.

[jasonT1981]

This would be a valid point... IF the vote counts do not contridict what you are pushing.

I never claimed that just because somebody doesn't have a lot of votes means they're not the easy target, but rather, I was using Mogri as an example, because he was the easy target with a lot of votes.

except I have already shown that he was not an easy target with lots of votes on him at the time of my vote?

[projectmatt]

or am I reading you wrong on this and you were thinking there was more mafia?

I derped up and thought there were three for a moment, not two, and that took us into a lylo.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Change of personalities?

It was an important issue I brought up on my PBP analysis. Jason is happy, apologetic and sweet for one moment, then basically an aggressive madman for the next. For clarification, see what I had already quoted on the last page.

Your answer doesn’t make sense which is why I wanted further details.

What do you mean by more players and more Mafia than you remembered?

See: My response to Jason up above. I thought there were three, not two.

except I have already shown that he was not an easy target with lots of votes on him at the time of my vote?

You slightly started to lead the BW on Mogri, then you pushed on him harder and harder as the votes started to fall on him. You were.

[Jerako]

Sorry about the delay. I'm back now. No more V/LA's in the foreseeable future.

@Jerako, TOGTFO – you both need to make some sort of solid post outlining you scum suspect soon.

My suspicions on Jason haven't changed in the slightest. If anything, the way he's making a coherent, sensible argument now against matt worries me

more.

He's clearly intelligent enough to realize that some of the things he was saying D1 were ridiculous.

I'm strongly considering matt as his partner, actually, and the argument between the two being an attempt to hyperdistance. Matt has already declared suspicions of jason, and says he feels very strongly about it, yet seems to be finding excuses

not

to vote for him late D1/early D2. He seems way more interested in how

he

appears, than in finding scum. I'm not familiar with a townie showing that much self-interest in any games I've read.

(Over?)emphasis on having 'evidence' before voting troubles me. Especially when he doesn't actually seem to be having any trouble finding it (weak or not), if his WoT's are any indication.

[TOGTFO]

*Prod dodge*

I am not being very helpful I know. Sorry. I am going to get my reads out I just need time to be able to focus on this.

Brief overview of reads, more townie people are up top. I will explain my reads soon as I can.

Town:
TOGTFO
Jerako
MOI
Stefunny
Jason
ProjectMatt
SpacePope
Scum:

[jasonT1981]

First point is that MOI DID state his reasons. You sheeped him, in some way or another. You're contradicting yourself, as you claimed earlier that MOI had given great reasons as to why Mogri is scum, and you weren't repeating it because it's already been said.

Actually MOI said

I'm still here.

It sounds like I've got four different votes on me for four different reasons. Can you four explain your votes?

Quite frankly - I'm not going to repeat my reasoning. I've made it clear in thread and we've been round and round about it

. Unless you have something new to add to the discussion I'm not really interested in rehashing things. I'm not trying to convince you that you are scum. Others have clearly indicated that they've seen enough of the argument.

point 1 disproven. also show me where I said MOI had shown 'great reasons'

Still waiting on an answer on the above question.

[Space Pope]

@Jerako, TOGTFO – you both need to make some sort of solid post outlining you scum suspect soon.

My suspicions on Jason haven't changed in the slightest. If anything, the way he's making a coherent, sensible argument now against matt worries me

more.

He's clearly intelligent enough to realize that some of the things he was saying D1 were ridiculous.

And if he didn't defend himself as well?

[jasonT1981]

1. No, you had none\close to any. You directly spoke to each other in around one post, but aside from that you either just saw MOI as a null read, or you just seconded what he said. You've made no real attempt to actually go after him at all, which is what I mean. I lied about nothing, as I had previously pointed out the one post (out of the hundreds) where you two have specifically addresed each other.

This is a complete fabrication... there was more than one post that I quoted. I had less interaction with a few others in the game than MOI but nothing was made of that. You say it was one post... no, that one post actually showed quite a few posts in quotes of interaction with MOI.

your logic fails right now

[projectmatt]

Post #137, #151, #169, #172, this is just an example of posts where MOI has made walls speaking and attempting to understand\interrogate Mogri, but eventually, after the argument was done, he stepped back and focused on other people. The problem is, most of the interactions you did with Mogri were forced and you didn't even try to change your focus until he was lynched. This is, just in case you were going to make me cite the posts where MOI gives reasons for his votes.

Also Jason, I'm sorry, as I jumbled up several posts in my mind. Bu the "great reasons" I mean that you've shown several signs of buddying\agreeing with MOI randomly that I've already brought up.

[projectmatt]

1. No, you had none\close to any. You directly spoke to each other in around one post, but aside from that you either just saw MOI as a null read, or you just seconded what he said. You've made no real attempt to actually go after him at all, which is what I mean. I lied about nothing, as I had previously pointed out the one post (out of the hundreds) where you two have specifically addresed each other.

This is a complete fabrication... there was more than one post that I quoted. I had less interaction with a few others in the game than MOI but nothing was made of that. You say it was one post... no, that one post actually showed quite a few posts in quotes of interaction with MOI.

your logic fails right now

Noo, a few times you've quoted MOI as a "null read" or you've said you've agreed with him, or you've just slightly noticed his existence. There is only one post I can find where you directly answer one of his questions.

[Jerako]

And if he didn't defend himself as well?

Not sure what you're talking about here. I thought Jason has been defending himself?

Could you rephrase, maybe?