The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Profane Confusion]

I have nothing more to say to you right now, Yos. You're pissing me off because I really can't believe this could genuinely all be going over your head.

AGar, no logic behind the YFC wagon? So you think Yos's Night choices (particularly the one on Night 1) make sense coming from a hypo Yos-town?

I'm not even going to respond to FES's case unless someone asks me too. It's just that bad.

- Incog

[Profane Confusion]

Actually, AGar, I really want you and your heads justifying why you chose to put FD at L-1 right now. Because last time I checked, Equinox in particular apparently had a town read on Fate based on his drunk-posting. And you guys never responded to my question back here either.

- Incog

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Pro-tip: AGar and I sign our posts. The Fate-town read was RayFrost.

YosFlavouredCayke's explanations for their night actions make logical sense. Both AGar and RayFrost strongly believe YosFlavouredCayke to be town from their reactions today and, presumably, from the reactions of others to their claim. I'm on the fence about YosFlavouredCayke's explanations, mainly because I've yet to find any relevant meta with regards to Yosarian2's stances about playing jailkeeper; however, I agree with AGar and RayFrost that some of the reactions to YosFlavouredCayke's claim -- namely, the initial dismissals from DaSpotthatkillsu and Final Destination without even engaging YosFlavouredCayke -- to be scummy. DaSpotthatkillsu's posting after that leads me to think they're just belligerent town, though.

Balam, do you think those posts you've pulled up makes Final Destination look scummy?

I did not like the backpedal, hence the little image. Fate claimed he was reaction testing with his drunken accusations, yet he still maintained a Balam-scum read when the drink should have worn off; that indicated to me that his read was genuine, despite RayFrost's and my reactions. Therefore, Final Destination's later assertion that their scum read on us was a "test" all along is BS. RayFrost reversed his read on Final Destination at that point, too.

Additionally, there's this:

(instead I was hoping a Balam suspicion would let me survive a NK, seeing as Yos' scum flip will make scum feel REAL THREATENED by my reads, and make town pull their head out of their ass (town in this case with head up its ass being solely limited to FES))

Fate does not play to avoid NKs. He strikes me as the kind of player who will post whatever is on his mind and then push his viewpoint on everyone else because that is the way he wins games. This comment, along with the drunk reaction testing issue I outlined above, stinks of backpedaling.

[Final Destination]

There you go again, making bold statements about

MY

meta. How the fuck do you know how

I

play? Just because I kept up the "read" while sober doesn't mean it was any more genuine than when I was drunk. I will play to avoid NKs if it is the interest of my win con to do so.

"Fate does not play to avoid NKs."
Bold statement full of certainty.


"He strikes me as the kind of player"
Opinion, assumptions.

How can you post this trash back to back?

On one hand you say "THIS IS HOW FATE PLAYS" on the other you say "WELL I THINK FATE WOULD DO THIS BASED ON XXX HURRR"

Now while I'd love to go into detail about how you're so totally wrong about how I play, my town alignment this game will speak for itself AND I rather not reveal the intricacies of my style to those that are unaware of how to manipulate me.

Your "clearing" of Yoscayke is crap. So an experienced player makes a claim that makes

logical

sense? Well no FUCKING SHIT. He's not an idiot that's gonna claim "Cop with a guilty N1 Inno N2 I wanted to get one more investigation off so I didnt claim guilty TEHEHEHE" why do players keep treating this thread like its in the fucking newbie queue?

You're all using craptells. As a wise man once said:

The meta argument is also bullshit. In fact all of these bandwagons are merely railroaded contraptions. NONE of them have any merit.

So how about we quit fucking around and play this game on the level it was MEANT to be played? Aka lynch the scum fucking roleblocker, and crack this game open. The sheer amount of RESISTANCE to YosCayke's lynch is due to the scumarrogance I pointed out earlier. They feel logical superiority in this thread (aka they feel themselves to be better players), so they have no desire to bus their buddies when FD/Spot/FES exist.


And no I'm not claiming. It's going to take a final scum bag (Copper) coming out of the bushes and pushing for my lynch before I cave to this bullshit, ESPECIALLY when Yos scum is in our sights.

[Final Destination]

(AGar)

[AGM]

Cool claim, bro. Three things:

1) There was no town reason for stalling on that claim.
2) It's fake.
3) Die.

Lolno.

VOTE: Final Destination

With so much pushing against YFC, and no logic behind it, we're fairly confident that YFC is in fact town.

You might want to think about claiming FD. I'm sure there's someone here who will "grab their ball sacks and lynch scum before they fakeclaim," as you so kindly put it.

I don't even know how you can regurgitate the shit scum says.

"No logic behind it."

There's no WAY you can read my recent postings on Yos, my analysis of the ENTIRE FUCKING GODDAMN GAME UP TO THIS POINT, and say "there's no logic."

How about there IS FUCKING logic, and until you REFUTE it then you're talking out of your ass?


And what the fuck is this fluff even mean "calling crap to Yos' claim without engaging directly"

I've been engaging Yos the whole fucking GAME, and now I'm sticking to only talking to my town reads, AKA YOU BALAMZ, and discussing the game with them instead of arguing with fucking scum.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

There you go again, making bold statements about

MY

meta. How the fuck do you know how

I

play? Just because I kept up the "read" while sober doesn't mean it was any more genuine than when I was drunk. I will play to avoid NKs if it is the interest of my win con to do so.

Ahahaha. No.

I use personality tells. Bite me.

And what the fuck is this fluff even mean "calling crap to Yos' claim without engaging directly"

You engage YosFlavouredCayke up until they claim, and then it's "lol they fakeclaiming" without even trying to pick it apart. At least Mastermate and Profane Confusion questioned YosFlavouredCayke about their choices to discern their alignment.

OH HEY WAIT A MINUTE WHAT IS THIS:

1) There was no town reason for stalling on that claim.

[Final Destination]

Well seeing as you know shit about my personality or anyone who posts on the fucking INTERNET, I'd say your playstyle is severely flawed. "Fate would post whatever he wanted and would never try to avoid a NK" is a load of crap and I've successfully dodged/drawn NKs as I've fucking pleased depending on the game the role and the alignment.

AGM said "lol claim" and sure I could parrot Mastermate and PC, but what's the fucking point? The main reasoning for why the claim is fake is out there:

-Not protecting "ZOMG OBVTOWN" Ether is horseshit. NO matter what.
-"RB is more powerful than Doc so therefore using it like a RV is tehehehe" NO. RB is powerful as fuck

with one scum left.

Jailkeeper itself is extremely less potent than RB (due to the hybridazation it becomes weaker, yes), but Doctor is still better than RB with multiple scum left.
-Softclaiming to get the wagon off him instead of to move the day forward, and a later claim that doesn't match up with said softclaim at all.

If Yos was 9000% sure she was town (as he claims he is and was), then

his duty as a protective role is to ensure her survival for as long as he's fucking breathing.

That is what a doc is SUPPOSED to do, not dance around with WIFOM "lol teheheh they wont NK the claimed cop so..."

THE DOC IS SUPPOSED TO ENSURE WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT THE PERSON THEY PROTECT WILL BE ALIVE IN THE FUCKING MORNING. THAT IS ALL.

Trying to use his role as a "1 in 3 chance trololol I blocked the scum killer" over protecting "confirmed" town Ether is BULLSHIT.

Stalling for a JK claim is BULLSHIT. If he knew it wouldn't save him, like he tried to "propose" it would (lol watch this wagon off my disappear Imma PR!") then he should've just claimed to move forward instead of stalling the game out like YESTERDAY with FES.

But he's scum, so that's why he didn't claim immediately.

So yeah, this all sums up to AGM posting "lol they fakeclaiming" which I felt no need to elaborate on with all the other townies already at it.

But instead of, "so what don't you like about their claim?" its "LOLL-1YOU" oh ok Balam, ok.

[Balam]

(AGar)

I will play to avoid NKs if it is the interest of my win con to do so.

Funny, I was always under the impression that town players, regardless of how "godlike" their night actions may or may not be, are supposed to be playing as pro-town as possible, thus in a way that draws a night kill, in order to force scum to either play an amazingly town game or shore up real easily. In other words, it is never in the best interest of a town win condition to play to avoid night kills.

So are you now admitting to playing an intentionally sub-optimal game in order to facilitate your survival?

Sounds like a scum strategy to me.

[Final Destination]

At least Mastermate and Profane Confusion questioned YosFlavouredCayke about their choices to discern their alignment.

I'm already fucking sure Yos is scum, why would I question his choices to discern his scumminess? He is scum, his claim is not confirmable town in the way that would make me shake my read of him, so why would I go "HRMMMM SO WHY WOULD YOUZZ>>>>>?" to further the case on him? That's the job other townies have taken onto themselves (PC and MP)


So now, Mr. Personality Guru, do I

SEEM

like the kind of person who would give a fuck what my highest scum read claimed, and question his claim further before I decide whether its fake or not?

WELL


FUCKING DO I?

MY TOP SCUMREAD CLAIMED. ITS FAR ENOUGH IN THE GAME THAT MY TOP SCUMREAD IS SCUM.


ERGO WHATEVER HE CLAIMS IS FUCKING FAKE.

[Final Destination]

(AGar)

I will play to avoid NKs if it is the interest of my win con to do so.

Funny, I was always under the impression that town players, regardless of how "godlike" their night actions may or may not be, are supposed to be playing as pro-town as possible, thus in a way that draws a night kill, in order to force scum to either play an amazingly town game or shore up real easily. In other words, it is never in the best interest of a town win condition to play to avoid night kills.

So are you now admitting to playing an intentionally sub-optimal game in order to facilitate your survival?

Sounds like a scum strategy to me.

Suboptimal? I'm not here to make this a MD debate with 3v1 fucking one (oh wait you have the scumteam on your side).

Yos is scum, FUCKING SCUMBAG NUMERO UNO.

Now, my side reads? Making them "less than accurate" or trolling with reads to get reactions, whatever it may be DOESNT FUCKING MATTER as long as my vote's on scum.

Someone in some recent game with GreyICE hammered a town read so that he could stay alive. I don't pull shit like

that

, I vote for who I think to be scum, my top suspect and vote is ALWAYS on scum. My side reads? Who I buddy up to? As UB put it as he was here, I'd buddy up to Copper regardless of his alignment.

As scum, he'd keep me alive longer and then I'd turn on him. As town, either I or he would be NK'd for scum fearing a Town alliance.

OH WOW LOOK WHO SCUM HAVE BEEN FUCKING KILLING?

ETHER WHO HAD SOLID TOWN READS THAT WERENT SHIT.


GREYICE WHO HAD SOLID TOWN READS AND ALLIANCE HE WANTED FORMED.

HOW ABOUT THAT?

Pull your head out of your ass. Grey would not be dead if I were scum. Ether MIGHT be dead, depends on other factors. I probably would've killed Copper if he was town and I was scum the night he replaced in.

OH BUT WAIT IM NOT SCUM, COPPER REPLACED FLAKSCUMONIC, AND YOUR READS ARE ALL FUCKING BACKWARDS.

Get RayFrost back in here, I need to talk some sense into your hydra.

[Final Destination]

DON"T YOU FUCKING RUN AWAY NOW

HUH

DONT YOU FUCKING DARE I SEE YOU AGAR GET YOUR ASS IN HERE.


OH MOS I SEEYOU TOO.

LET ME SAVE YOU AN ISO:

-I STARTED OUT TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER WITH AGM AND ONLY POST SENSIBLE SHIT. LASTED UNTIL WE GOT A BIGASS WAGON ON US, AGM POSTED WITHOUT MY CONSENT RAGING AT THE STUPIDITY OF SAID WAGON, I CALMED HIM BACK DOWN AND WE ANALYZED IT.

D2-TOWN HAD THEIR HAD UP THEIR ASS,, GUMMYFLAKE WASNT POSTING CONTENT SCUM WERENT INTERSETED IN FES' LYNCH, FES WASNT INTERESTED IN POSTING ANYTHING RESEMBLING CONTENT, AND MY RAGE LEAKED OUT A LITTLE AT ALL THE INCOMPETENCE AND SLOWNESS, AND I BROKE HYDRA POSTING FORM BECAUSE OF AGMS FREQUENT LAS

D3-EVERYTHING CLICKED IN MY HEAD, THE GAMES BEEN BROKEN OPEN IMO, BUT SCUM ARE PISSING ME OFF ANY BEING FUCKING CHEEKY AND REFUSING TO BUS. ITS PISSED ME OFF TO NO END, AND THEIR USE OF CRAPTASTIC ARGUMENTS AND "ACTIVITY LAWLZ" TELLS AGAINST ME HAS PUSHED ME OVER THE EDGE AND IM ABOUT TO JUMP.


THATS MY ISO, AND IM FULLY EXPECTING COPPER TO COME IN WITH A "HURR DURR SEEMS LIKE FATE COULDNT GIVE UP HIS RAGE POSTING AFTERALL AKA HE'S SCUM SO ILL DROP DA HAMMAH"

AND THEN YOU DONKEYS WILL BE ALL o_O TOMORROW AT FUCKING LYLO.

[Final Destination]

So are you now admitting to playing an intentionally sub-optimal game in order to facilitate your survival?

Sounds like a scum strategy to me.

SOUNDS LIKE MISREPRESENTATIN TO ME.

FACILITATE MY SURVIVAL FROM NKS, WHICH IS THE ONLY THING I HAVE TO FEAR AS FUCKING TOWN.

AS SCUM I"D FEAR BEING LYNCHED, AKA HAVING WEIRD ASS BACKPEDALING "GAMBITS" WOULD NOT FACILITATE DAY SURVIVAL.

AKA YOU ARE SAYING 'LOL APPLES ARE ORANGES' AND PUSHING THAT ON ME AS A TELL.


" YOU WANT TO

SURVIVE

night kills?

? YOU MUST BE SCUM ONLY SCUM WANT TO SURVIVE THEHEHEHEHEHHEHE"

FUCKING

PISSIN

ME


OFF

[Profane Confusion]

Balam, there was nothing scummy about Fate's backpedaling there. Was what he said probably bullshit? Maybe. But if you're town then think this through:

- You claim you know Fate's personality right? Then you'd agree with me when I say he's a fairly bull-headed player at times, yes? He strikes me as the kind of player who locks on a read and keeps pushing and pushing that player until they're just dead.

- But check this out: at a time that *I* was giving you some flak and therefore was directly COINCIDING with what would be his scum read of you, he doesn't use that opportunity to keep up his attack on you - HE DEFENDED YOU AGAINST ME BY DOING HIS "BACKPEDALING". Why would a Fate-scum do that? The only reason I could see for him doing that is if you two are scum together and you were distancing but that's clearly not true; you're pushing his lynch right now.

- That wasn't even the FIRST time he'd done that - he did that same exact thing with Frogito Ergo Sum and his white knight argument. Again, that was a time I was giving FES some flak and does Fate keep fueling that fire? No. He again gives reason for why FES might be town and protects FES against me and others.

Why would a Fate-scum spend all that time attacking two separate people and then completely flip his reads on those same TWO separate people when it would have been so much more beneficial for him at those times to continue with the attacks? This is exactly the reason why Final Destination is so damn town - he's not just locking onto reads and attack attack attacking - he's ALSO revising those reads when new evidence comes to light in people's favor. This wagon is horrendous - it might as well be nicknamed this guy's daughter:



...because it has MISS LYNCH written all over it.

- Incog

[YosFlavouredCayke]

I have nothing more to say to you right now, Yos. You're pissing me off because I really can't believe this could genuinely all be going over your head.

Going OVER my head?

Your entire theory was that if you protect someone you have a pro-town read on, you have "a 100% chance of stopping a nightkill". That's so obviously wrong I can't believe you said it, but even after I pointed out how obviously wrong it is, you're still sticking to it.

Yes, if I knew the scum were going to kill Ether, I would have targeted her. Just as obviously, there is no way I could have possibly have known that without the benefit of hindsight.

Whatever. There's no point in trying to convince scum of anything, so I'm not going to bother. I'm sure the rest of the town has seen enough to realize that you can't possibly believe what you're saying here.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Anyway, let's not get distracted. Today, we're lynching Fate, like we should have done days ago. When he flips scum, everything in this game is going to get a lot simpler.

[Profane Confusion]

No, Yos. This is exactly what I was saying:

If Yos was 9000% sure she was town (as he claims he is and was), then

his duty as a protective role is to ensure her survival for as long as he's fucking breathing.

That is what a doc is SUPPOSED to do, not dance around with WIFOM "lol teheheh they wont NK the claimed cop so..."

THE DOC IS SUPPOSED TO ENSURE WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT THE PERSON THEY PROTECT WILL BE ALIVE IN THE FUCKING MORNING. THAT IS ALL.

It's funny how you and FES are probably the only ones in the entire thread who either don't get what I'm saying or are choosing to be obtuse about it.

I bet you didn't even read my 1262 which is pretty damn good evidence for why FD is probably town. But whatever, Yos, you're scum, you've got your little mislynch lined up, you'll be surviving yet another Day so you obviously don't care.

[Final Destination]

You had the ability to keep someone you knew "wihtout a doubt lol I HAVE <3 EYES FOR ETHERCHAN" alive through the night.

"lol she had a 3man bandwagon on her D1 so she was totes mislynch fodder" bullshit ISNT GOINT TO CUT IT AS AN EXCUSE.

Why did you not keep your beloved princess alive?

#1262 is a breath of FRESH TOWN, and the level of play I'd fucking EXPECT from these players if they weren't fucking scum.


Sure I backpedaled on my read of Balam, by very definition of me saying he was SCUM one day and then TOWN the other. Is it logically sound? Do I make perfect sense to you (as I do to myself)? I highly doubt it. Same goes with Daspot's posts.

BUT PRORFANE SANITY READS BEYOND THE FLAWS IN LOGIC, TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, TO THE MOTIVATIONS, AND HE READS SHIT CORRECTLY.

THATS WHY HE IS A TOWN GOD AND I"LL FOLLOW HIM TO MY GRAVE.

[Copper]

Apologies for our absence. A combination of Easter and the ending of the Spring semester (I'll let slip that there's a college student in this hydra) has left us with scant time for mafia, resulting in the unsatisfying game of hydra chicken.

I am still without time for a response/catchup wall, but I'll try to touch on the major points. This is largely individual, you've been warned. If you want specific questions answered immediately, you'll have to requote them.

---

One thing that we've been watching for, and failing to find for some time, is what exactly happened to Balam's read on Unicorn Brethern. Looking at Balam's ISO 129, we see an angry plea to lynch Unicorn Brethern:

UNICORN BRETHREN PLAYED LIKE TOTAL IDIOTS, AND THEN THEY WOKE UP TODAY. "HAHAHAHEHEHEHAHAHA, YEAH, SORRY, WE TROLLIN'. NOW I'M BACK." TOWN DO NOT PLAY LIKE A SACK OF DERPS FOR AN ENTIRE DAY; THAT GOES AGAINST THEIR FUCKING WIN CONDITION. GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE INDISCRIMINATE HAMMERING AND TELL ME THAT IS TOWN MOTIVATION. SAY IT TO MY FACE. THIS IS A SCUM STRATEGY. UNICORN BRETHREN IS SCUM. SCUM. SCUM.

In Balam's very next post, AGar mentions "hardcore" clashing and that he supports lynches on YossarianFlavoredCayke, Copper, and Final Destination. From there, they go on to solidify reads, but taking strange care not to mention which reads are contentious and which are unanimous, save for Copper-scum being the top.

The big point is that, after Balam's 129, Unicorn Brethern/Mastermate are not mentioned by Balam a single time. Instead, their next three votes have been AGar's three lynch targets in 130.

Let's look at the situation. We have Equinox and RayFrost both yelling for a lynch on Unicorn Brethern. Then, suddenly, AGar announces he's "taking over", and repeatedly stresses that reads are individual, and should not be taken as representative of the hydra as a whole.

Later, AGar assures us they have largely reached consensus, again making sure not to name names. So, we have Equinox and RayFrost posting a wagon on a very likely townie. They are shot down by the thread, but persist in calling him scum. Then what happens? AGar rushes in and says "No! Everything is individual now!" and makes no mention of Unicorn. When Ray and Equinox scurry out of the QT again,

they follow suit

.

What exactly happened in that hydra QT? It's not as though sudden, new information has come to light - the arguments for Unicorn-town are venerable. But instead, we were treated to a game of Three Head Monte, and at the end of it there's not any mention of the Balam policy on Mastermate. It's delicate dancing off of a very unpopular position with not a single mention of why, how, or even that it's happened. It seems extremely insincere.

---

As for YossarianFlavoredCayke, he's been a hard read all game. He's been very clear at outlining his positions, and we've need next to zero clarification from him on his stances. But he's always been a bit of an unsettling monolith. He charges at his positions with single-minded purpose, a stance that is easier to fake than the town twitch-focus of a player like Final Destination. So, by and large, we've left Yossarian alone, on the principle of "never defend your null reads." His stances have been clear, and as the gamestate progresses the flips should do a good job of telling us about Yossarian.

The recent thread events have been...odd. The first thing to notice is his sheer bravery about L-1. The Unicorns are gone from us, true, but this is a town with severe hammerlust. If he is scum, it's unlikely he's being bussed: that kind of safety could only come from the knowledge that the potential hammerers contain one or both of his scumbuddies.

Who could this contain? The likely candidates for Yossarian's scumbuddies would be Lord Fonzi, Frogito Ergo Scum, and Balam. The later is the most interesting - Balam made a big show of threatening the hammer and Yossarian was oddly nonplussed.

FES and Fonzi are both unlikely scum, in my view, which makes Yossarian scum a little harder to swallow. He could be scum with Balam, with a third scumbuddy somewhere in the gaps - either bussing, or one of FES or Fonzi. (Though that being said, Buttonmen is well-known for his love of the Vanilla Town role, and I could see him being brazen enough to run a 2:11 mountainous setup. When speculating about the setup, though, it's better to assume the worst.)

Regardless, I'd much rather lynch Balam first.

As for his claim, I agree with his philosophy: as a Jailkeeper, I would not want to inhibit a town PR, and so would focus on the roleblocking aspect (trying to freeze the scumkill) instead of the doctor aspect. By picking an unlikely NK target, and a player you believe is scummy, a no-kill suggests that you hit scum much more likely than you protecting from the scum kill.

---

It appears Profane Confusion has had the courtesy of writing up the reasoning for Final Destination as town for me. Speaking as someone strapped for time, this is much appreciated.

I'll also add the simple truth that the most passionate player in a game tends to be Town, particularly in a disorganized town. A mislynch is the best thing scum can achieve each Day, and it's a low enough bar that they can afford a fair degree of apathy. But the prize of calling the scumteam is always in the reach of a townsperson.

FinalDestination is town second only to Mastermate, as far as we're concerned.

---

Balam's recent point against FinalDestination - that a (unclaimed!) townsperson who admits to avoiding nightkills is probably scum - is not only ridicious, but endemic of a larger trend.

First, there was the overblown "scumslip" springing from a trivial semantic point that they used against me. Then, it was a rapid "CLAIM NOW OR I'LL HAMMER" against Yossarian. Now, we have this garbage point against Final Destination. In all cases, there is an abundance of certainty that seems to be accompanying their vote, even when they must pick reaching reasons to do it. To put it bluntly, their certainty seems to be far outpacing the strength of their evidence. Once is understandable, twice is forgivable, but three times - with three different people - and I'm hard-pressed to see sincerity. I'm also very keenly aware that, if YFC and FD are both town, a lynch on YFC would be miles easier to obtain after an FD townflip than vice-versa.

---

We have a few days until deadline. Of the current wagons, we will easily support a YossarianFlavoredCayke wagon over a Final Destination wagon. However, we have enough time for a switch onto Balam, and I think it's the best move for today.

---

Moderator:

A vote count, please.

[Final Destination]

FES, please, Copper is at the wings at waiting.

Until he posts a catch-up post full of HARD READS AND STANCES on all that has happened, we appeal to you to take us off L-1 at this time. If Copper decides to put us at L-1 we will claim for you because we know your intent to vote us this game has been clear for a long time.

We are saddened that our recent revelation:

WAIT THIS JUST AGM SAYS COPPER HAS POSTED.

[AGM slight approved]

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Post 1262 makes perfect sense... Aughdsgnkfh.

Final Destination, AGar thinks you're softclaiming, so I'mma ask you point blank: Were you?

[YosFlavouredCayke]

No, Yos. This is exactly what I was saying:

If Yos was 9000% sure she was town (as he claims he is and was), then

his duty as a protective role is to ensure her survival for as long as he's fucking breathing.

That is what a doc is SUPPOSED to do, not dance around with WIFOM "lol teheheh they wont NK the claimed cop so..."

THE DOC IS SUPPOSED TO ENSURE WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT THE PERSON THEY PROTECT WILL BE ALIVE IN THE FUCKING MORNING. THAT IS ALL.

It's funny how you and FES are probably the only ones in the entire thread who either don't get what I'm saying or are choosing to be obtuse about it.

I'M NOT A DOCTOR.

The job of the DOCTOR is to keep the cop alive, or, if there is no cop, to keep the most important claimed pro-town power role alive, no matter what. It dosn't really matter if the scum kill someone else, so long as the cop lives another day and gets off another investigation. But that's not an option for a jailkeeper, by design; the jailkeeper can't protect the most valuable members of the town without crippling them.

The job of the JAILKEEPER is to TRY TO STOP THE SCUM KILL. Period. The best WAY to do that is usually to try to roleblock the scum. It's not that hard of a concept.

It's not a matter of "I want to keep person X alive because they're obviosuly town". If everyone thinks someone is obviously town, and they don't seem to be a power role, ok, but at the time, I seemed to be the only one who thought Ether was obviously town; even FES only went as far as "more people should trust Yos's read on Ether". Hell, I wouldn't have spent so much time defending Ether if it wasn't for the fact that several other people were attacking her.

Please, explain to me exactally how I should have known the scum would try to kill Ether. You keep acting like protecting Ether was obviously the best option, but you haven't even tried to explain why you think she was an obvious scum target at the end of day 1.

I bet you didn't even read my 1262 which is pretty damn good evidence for why FD is probably town.

I actually hadn't read that far yet; I responded to your obviously bogus 1250 as soon as I saw it.

Looking at your 1262:

This is exactly the reason why Final Destination is so damn town - he's not just locking onto reads and attack attack attacking - he's ALSO revising those reads when new evidence comes to light in people's favor.

He's not just locking onto people. What he's doing is much, much worse; he's consistently, without exception, attacking only the person or people who are the biggest threat to him at that moment. Fonzi already pointed that out, in fairly great detail, in a post you apparently completely ignored, just like you've consistently ignored all the cases made against Fate and all the problems with Fate's play.

The situation with FES is a prime example. Day 1, when I was the main threat to him, he was attacking me. Then, day 2, when I stopped voting for Fate but FES continued, Fate ignored me and only attacked FES. Now, after I voted Fate on day 3, and I became the main threat to him again, Fate suddenly ignores FES and starts voting for me again.

But the biggest scum tell on your part here is that you are being so damn inconsistant in your logic. I've quite clearly been completly changing my reads as new evidence comes to life, completly dropping the DaSpot wagon today after pushing it with everything I had yesterday based on new evidence, and you completly ignore that. You defend Fate on the grounds that Ether thought he was town and then was nightkilled, but you completly ignore the fact that Ether thought I was town

It's obvious that you're not scumhunting. All you've been doing is trying to come up with excuses to defend Fate and vote for me. Well, I hate to break it to you, but once Fate flips scum, you're next. And, frankly, even if you manage to somehow get me lynched today, when I flip town, you and Fate are going to be lynched tommorow anyway if the rest of the town has any sense at all.

You're scum, and you're probably going to lose this game, and by the way you've been becoming increasingly desperate and increasingly irrational in your attempts to get me mislynched as this day goes on, I think you know it.

[TheButtonmen]

Vote Count:

Final Destination (4): FES, YosFlavouredCayke, Lord Fonzi, Balam
YosFlavouredCayke (3): Final Destination, DaSpot, Profane Confusion
Balam (1): Copper


Not Voting: Mastermate

With nine alive it's five to lynch.

Deadline is May 1st @ 19:00 EST

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Forgot this in 1269:

Unvote

ReaperCharlie's replace out made my case against Unicorn Brethren null. My point of contention was Unicorn Brethren strategically playing like a troll on a VI pass, but ReaperCharlie apologized for that behavior and then forcibly ejected the entire hydra from the game. That tells me it wasn't intentional alignment-related play, and replacing out of a game to fulfill a win condition is absurd. We haven't addressed Mastermate because there hasn't been a reason to do so.

At that point in the game you are mentioning, as I remember, all 3 of us were running individually because we weren't able to coordinate. We emphasized that they were individual reads because people were accusing us of flip-flopping when the truth was that the hydra was internally inconsistent, not flip-flopping; apparently, we haven't been clear enough in our distinction between "I" and "we" in our language in this game.

If it's called for, I am willing to go back and outline exactly how our reads went down, names and all. Won't do it on your word, though; we're town and I don't feel like negotiating.

[Final Destination]

Well....

Fuck.

Posts like #1267 are the reason I said we would never vote Copper outside LyLo. He makes all sorts of sense, with all his stances and reads. I'm glad he's finally good posting again, and I'm willing to forgive his V/LAing.

That said we're still not sold on his alignment. Just that if he IS scum (and to respond to an earlier comment, when I said Copper was the towniest town in the land I meant his POSTING STYLE and playing style were the best bar none in this thread), he has no choice but to bus his buddies who are making crap cases and pushing bad logic.


With that said, its time for a BACKPEDAL OF A BACKPEDAL:

(Equinox)

Post 1262 makes perfect sense... Aughdsgnkfh.

Final Destination, AGar thinks you're softclaiming, so I'mma ask you point blank: Were you?

You're fucking shitting me right?

I mean, AGM and I just stared at this post for the past 5mins, wondering "did he really just fucking post that?"

1. You say "AW FUCK. PC MAKES GOOD REASONING AS TO WHY FD IS TOWN"
2. Then say "HEY FD? WHAT ROLE ARE YOU?"

No.

NO.

NO

FUCK THAT.

YOU"RE BACK ON THE FUCKING SCUM LIST.

[AGM APPROVED]

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Will you do me a favor, YosFlavouredCayke, and tell me where I can find posts where you've outlined strategies for playing the jailkeeper role?

With that said, its time for a BACKPEDAL OF A BACKPEDAL:

I KNOW, RIGHT, MOST AWESOME BACKPEDAL EVER.