Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Hazard with a Glove]

Sorry, rather busy, but for the most part I didn't know how to respond and didn't realize it got 72 hours.

-Circular motion
This is what I said.
4. because you wanted me to waste my PR
5. Because you are scum who would benefit one way or another from me not using it.

You are reading as I if I said
4. because you wanted me to waste my PR
5. Because you are scum

Now, even if you think he's town, what if he was trying to waste my PR? What, that doesn't make it scummy?
Also, all I've heard is the sheeping what others have said on this.
Person 1: "Hey, that is scummy!"
Person 2, 3, 4, etc: Oh, yes, yes, scummy!
What really makes it scummy? He did something scummy(tried to waste a PR), I think he's scum for it. Why do I think he's scum, because he did something scummy (tried to waste a PR). Why did he do something scummy (try to waste a PR)? Because he's scum (and would benefit from it one way or another)

My reads
"You said Amrun's posts were largely fluff, which means you can ignore them, so actual content-wise they should still have similar number of posts, no?"
Yes. They are the same wise, but they really aren't the same. It really just depends on how you feel about the 2. IMo, (not to say either are good) no posts is better than constant fluff, but that's just me.

"Morthas and mb: Morthas hasn't posted for 4 days now. Still more town than mb?"
Well, this is kind of invalid now.

"You're not meant to make up reads...

you're meant to base them on your gut

at the very least (which is itself based on their posts), or through reasoning (which is also based on their posts)."
Gut, AKA making up.
If you want to deflect onto other people, try being less obvious in future."

[vezokpiraka]

Can we lynch someone already.

This game is stalling way too hard.

[Morthas]

OK~~~ I'm even though i started to doubt whenever Hazard is actually scum im going to vote for him
VOTE: Hazard

Hoppsters case on Hazard is very convincing although to most of his accusations if not all you could also apply ''he may be just a bad town player'' and since Hoppster already pushed the lynch for 2 ''bad town players'' i will be voting him if Hazard flips town~. <-- Even though you might think this sounds very stupid because i am taking part of the wagon, what changes Hazard from the other people who i had doubts and not voted is that i had a scumread on him for a while now

[Zyrconium]

@Morthas: I think you just said, "fuck it, I'm bored and he's probably scum: vote Hazard"

Because if you read over you post in more detail, you'll not you decided you're not sure if Hazard is scum, but you do have a scumread on him. and that you like Hoppster's case, despite it not convincing you and Hoppster probably being scum"....

I'll shift my vote if there is a reason to do so, so far, there's not much interesting case-wise about, and cp is still fairly scum... so is VV, but we seem to have forgotten about him... mostly cause he's string flaking.(as in, I might move my vote when we get a second replacement for this slot).

[Morthas]

@Morthas: I think you just said, "fuck it, I'm bored and he's probably scum: vote Hazard" <-

Yes XD

Because if you read over you post in more detail, you'll not you decided you're not sure if Hazard is scum, but you do

have

had

a scumread on him. and that you

like Hoppster's case

find it logical

, despite it not convincing you<---

true

and Hoppster probably being scum<---

true

"....

[Amrun]

Why vote for someone you think is town? What's wrong with the cp list?

[Morthas]

I do not think he's town, i am doubting my read on Hazard because i see the very believable possibility of him being a bad townie

[crazypianist1116]

OK sorry I haven't been around and didn't keep my last post's promise. Easter took up a lot of time and now schoolwork is starting to skyrocket. I've just read Hazard's last post and honestly I don't think he's scum.
VOTE: vezokpiraka

Morthas case is useless, and he's trying to push for a lynch just to end the day. I don't want him in LyLo either (feel free to use that reasoning against me as well ).

I'll try reading through more tonight.

[Amrun]

You vote for VEZOK?!

Come on.

Vezok is obviously town.

Lynch cp with fire. We really, seriously, can't bring that to LyLo.

[Morthas]

Wait, i have a case...?

[Morthas]

Ah btw GJ CP, Maaaan your soo smart, you pointed out something that has already been pointed out, the game is stalling so im putting my vote for who i want lynched.
On another note, of all the people who are talking about LyLo, can one of them tell me WHEN it is going to be? Because from what i can tell we have no information regarding the number of scum there is so we cannot determine when it becomes LyLo. (Maybe that says something about their alignment, maybe not)

[Amrun]

If we assume 3 scum (which I don't know, but it's standard), we are now at 7 v 3.

We mislynch today and it's 5 v 3 tomorrow, unless another kill is prevented.

We mislynch again again and we lose, unless another kill is prevented.

So assuming all the night kills go through, we have one mislynch with three scum.

That's ... really not good. :/

Shit.

[mb53]

CP's vezok jump is scummy.

[Zyrconium]

Oh hey prodded again. I thought I had till this morning, since it hasn't been 3 days since day 3 started.

Hazard with a Glove - Leaning scum
mb53 - Leaning scum
Zyrconium - Town
Hoppster - Leaning Town
Amrun - Town
vezokpiraka - Null
VasudeVa - Not enough info
Morthas - Leaning Town
ToastyToast - Leaning scum

Hoppster's case is good. Granted, he's doing that "Hey everyone look, there's obvscum here" thing, but I'm buying it. It could be motivated by him being mad at hazard not choosing him, but I don't think that's the case.
Mb's vote looks like a lurker taking a stance on a wagon so it looks like he's doing something when he really isn't...
Zyrc looks like he's trying to help town, but I'm not exactly sure how he ended up with a vote on me based on votecounts alone. Assumptions based on how many scum are on a wagon can lead you down a path to tunneling.
Toasty is more of a gut read. I'm not as confident with this one.


Morthas, you feel like you can actually get an answer out of vezok?

List of reads 6 days ago from CP, now he has a couple of days to make a REALLY good case on VP or he should die, can we agree on this?

[Amrun]

Agreed. We just can't take cp to lylo, and there's a fairly good chance she's scum.

[mb53]

Who is VP?

[Amrun]

Vezok.

[ToastyToast]

Hmm. The vezok vote was definately off. Which reminds me: I don't like his answer at all and think people are basing their reads on him based solely on meta. That isn't enough. However, he is not my main suspect and as such,

Unvote:Vezok

[Morthas]

TT: Vote your main suspect ;D

[vezokpiraka]

unvote
vote CP

I wanted to say this before I got to sleep yesterday but forgot.

After reading her post I even thought he wasn't voting for anyone. I had to reread. She just mentions me in that vote.

[ToastyToast]

TT: Vote your main suspect ;D

Lol, isn't that obvious? Morthas, Zyrconium, Hoppster, Vezok
Because I've consistently not like him....

Vote:Zyrconium

Im against a Hazard lynch despite his fail circular logic.
Morthas hasn't made many good cases, and keeps disappearing when suspicion gets on him
Zyrconium is just going after the easy lynches; although I agree with his comments on fail-post by CP, him and Amrun trying to lynch him so he's not there during lylo=bad reason. We lynch someone if we are sure they're scum. Because lynching scum prevents lylo.
Hoppster's claim is sketchy sketch

Yeah, I know I'm not doing much to convince people, but those are the people I'm willing to lynch today.

[Amrun]

I ALSO think cp is scum. It's not only LyLo.

Would also lynch Zyrconium.

[Hoppster]

For reference again, here were my questions:

4. Why do you think I'm scum?
5. Why do you think I was trying to trap you?

Your answers:

This is what I said.
4. because you wanted me to waste my PR
5.

Because you are scum

who would benefit one way or another

from me not using it

.

You are reading as I if I said
4. because you wanted me to waste my PR
5. Because you are scum

Bolded emphasis added is mine. It's still circular reasoning. You're using me being scum to justify my supposed benefit from you not using/wasting it (which is the reason I'm scum in the first place). Corrected for circular reasoning, it becomes:

5. Because you would benefit one way or another from it.

Which is true, and not incriminating at all (and not a great reason for thinking it's a trap).

Why do I think he's scum, because he did something scummy (tried to waste a PR). Why did he do something scummy (try to waste a PR)? Because he's scum (and would benefit from it one way or another)

Uhuh, thanks for more classic example of circular reasoning.

Why am I scum? Because I'm doing scummy stuff.
Why am I doing scummy stuff? Because I'm scum.

Gut, AKA making up.

Uh, no. Gut reads are not making up, as I just explained. Gut reads are based on something - usually something you can't quite figure out - or, at least, they should be. If you're town, making up gut reads is

doing it wrong

.

"Morthas and mb: Morthas hasn't posted for 4 days now. Still more town than mb?"
Well, this is kind of invalid now.

... wut.

Let me quote Morthas' ONLY post between my quote and your response that my question was invalid.

Aaaaaah, i need to stop procrastinating. I'll post a bit later

You're joking, right?

====================================

I'm pretty damn sure Zyrc is town now. He's definitely read my wall and understood where it was going (with A), which I don't think scum would.

Why would scum not see where that was going? I thought anyone could (apparently not hazard though).

Oh, never mind. Maybe I'm wrong, I can't quite explain it well, it's more of a gut thing (something which is definitely NOT made-up) which I can't quite explain apparently.

====================================

OK~~~ I'm even though i started to doubt whenever Hazard is actually scum im going to vote for him
VOTE: Hazard

Hoppsters case on Hazard is very convincing although to most of his accusations if not all you could also apply ''he may be just a bad town player'' and since Hoppster already pushed the lynch for 2 ''bad town players'' i will be voting him if Hazard flips town~. <-- Even though you might think this sounds very stupid because i am taking part of the wagon, what changes Hazard from the other people who i had doubts and not voted is that i had a scumread on him for a while now

Morthas, which of the two attitudes below would you say

best

reflects the overall tone of what you're saying here?

1. Distancing from the Hazard wagon, not willing to be culpable if Hazard flips town
   
2. Pushing for a Hazard lynch, wanting town-cred if Hazard flips scum

Two huge extremes, I appreciate that. It's just that your whole post is very... iffy.

====================================

I've just read Hazard's last post and honestly I don't think he's scum.

Why not?

[Zyrconium]

him and Amrun trying to lynch him so he's not there during lylo=bad reason. We lynch someone if we are sure they're scum. Because lynching scum prevents lylo.

Bullshit misrep asshole. Am I going to have to start using shorthand for when you misrep me, town?

Hint: go fucking read my post and say that again?

As for "only pushing easy lynches", I think that's also painfully wrong, but it's something that you could forseeably interpret from the parts where I tended to START bandwagons that did well.... it you were trying to see it(hint: I'm pointing out that you're getting some confirmation bias here, try stepping back and rereading from a state of mind where you're not trying to prove that I'm scum).

[ToastyToast]

List of reads 6 days ago from CP, now he has a couple of days to make a REALLY good case on VP or he should die, can we agree on this?

Using a lack of information/prod-doging to make a case, and setting a time limit on his responses. Thats why I connected you to the Amrun-lylo thing. Your basically asking for a policy lynch.