The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Final Destination]

(Equinox)

Forgot this in 1269:

Unvote

ReaperCharlie's replace out made my case against Unicorn Brethren null. My point of contention was Unicorn Brethren strategically playing like a troll on a VI pass, but ReaperCharlie apologized for that behavior and then forcibly ejected the entire hydra from the game. That tells me it wasn't intentional alignment-related play, and replacing out of a game to fulfill a win condition is absurd. We haven't addressed Mastermate because there hasn't been a reason to do so.

At that point in the game you are mentioning, as I remember, all 3 of us were running individually because we weren't able to coordinate. We emphasized that they were individual reads because people were accusing us of flip-flopping when the truth was that the hydra was internally inconsistent, not flip-flopping; apparently, we haven't been clear enough in our distinction between "I" and "we" in our language in this game.

If it's called for, I am willing to go back and outline exactly how our reads went down, names and all. Won't do it on your word, though; we're town and I don't feel like negotiating.

THATS ALL GOOD AND FUCKING NICE BUT NOW MASTERMATE ITS IN THIS GODDAMN THREAD AND YOU HAVENT MADE ONE SLIGHT HEAD MOTION TOWARDS HIM OR HIS ALIGNMENT, AND YET YOU WERE WILLING TO PUT US AT L-1 WITHOUT HIM CAUGHT UP AND WERE TAUNTING "SOMEONE TO HAMMER US WITHOUT A CLAIM"

HOLY FUCK NO.

GUESS WHAT THAT MEANS FROSTY? MY DRUNKDAR ISN SO FUCKING BAD IS IT?

[Final Destination]

I KNOW, RIGHT, MOST AWESOME BACKPEDAL EVER.

I KNOW, RIGHT, IM JUST GOING TO BACK AWAY SLOWLY AFTER BEING CALLED OUT FOR THE SCUMMIEST ROLEFISHING THATS EVER FISHED AND SAY "LOL FD BACKPEDALED AGAIN <_< >_>

LOOK THATWAY A DISTRACTION!"

YOURE FUCKING DEAD.

SOON.

[Fate]

@Yos: LOL MD THEORY LAND BUT STILL:

You have two choices:

A potentially roleblocked Ether (unless she's a vig who gives a fuck), thats ALIVE to scumhunt during the day

Or a dead Ether.

WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?

"hurr durr how could I know ether would die at night?:

HOW COULD YOU KNOW WHO WOULD SUBMIT THE KILL?

YOU WOULDNT KNOW EITHER. BUT YOU COULD GUARANTEE A TOWNS SURVIVAL THROUGH THE FUCKING NIGHT.

[Final Destination]

@Yos: LOL MD THEORY LAND BUT STILL:

You have two choices:

A potentially roleblocked Ether (unless she's a vig who gives a fuck), thats ALIVE to scumhunt during the day

Or a dead Ether.

WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?

"hurr durr how could I know ether would die at night?:

HOW COULD YOU KNOW WHO WOULD SUBMIT THE KILL?

YOU WOULDNT KNOW EITHER. BUT YOU COULD GUARANTEE A TOWNS SURVIVAL THROUGH THE FUCKING NIGHT.

MY STREAK

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I BLAME SCUM

[YosFlavouredCayke]

(Equinox)

Will you do me a favor, YosFlavouredCayke, and tell me where I can find posts where you've outlined strategies for playing the jailkeeper role?

Um...I don't know if I have discussed the stratagy around jailkeeper.

I invented up with the jailkeeper role in the open game "Near vanilla", which was a 13 player game with a jaileeper, a doctor (who would fail if he tried to protect the jailkeeper), 3 scum, and 8 vanillas. I probably did discuss jailkeeper a little bit in MD back when that first came out, but most likely only in the context of that game.

On a side note, Incog's defense of Fate in 1262 was seriously flawed. I already responded to him with this, but it dosn't look like Fate is actually "reconsidering based on new evidence"; it looks like he's constantly trying to lynch people who are threats to him for tactical reasons, and then inventing whatever theory enables him to do that. For example, his so called "turn around" on FES (the whole "white knight" thing) is really him inventing a completely new theory to justify him coming after me today, which just happened to be in direct response to me voting for him. Everything he's done looks more scum motivated then anything else. I really wish you wouldn't unvote Fate here; I don't see how we're going to manage a scum lynch today without you.

[Lord Fonzi]

I KNOW, RIGHT, MOST AWESOME BACKPEDAL EVER.

I KNOW, RIGHT, IM JUST GOING TO BACK AWAY SLOWLY AFTER BEING CALLED OUT FOR THE SCUMMIEST ROLEFISHING THATS EVER FISHED AND SAY "LOL FD BACKPEDALED AGAIN <_< >_>

LOOK THATWAY A DISTRACTION!"

YOURE FUCKING DEAD.

SOON.

Fate, who's town now? Me or Copper? You're running out of room in your scumgroup to put everyone who suspects you.

Your recent spurt of posts are a tale told by an idiot scum, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

@Yos: LOL MD THEORY LAND BUT STILL:

You have two choices:

A potentially roleblocked Ether (unless she's a vig who gives a fuck), thats ALIVE to scumhunt during the day

Or a dead Ether.

WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?

"hurr durr how could I know ether would die at night?:

HOW COULD YOU KNOW WHO WOULD SUBMIT THE KILL?

YOU WOULDNT KNOW EITHER. BUT YOU COULD GUARANTEE A TOWNS SURVIVAL THROUGH THE FUCKING NIGHT.

There were 8 pro-town people going into night one. Even if I knew everyone's alignment for sure, trying to guess which one of them the scum were going to kill would be a fucking long shot. "You guatentee a town's survival through the night" is a horrible argument; 7 townies are going to survive the night no matter what, 8 if you're really lucky.

If you jailkeep a pro-town person night 1, you've got a 1/8 chance of stopping a kill, and probably about a 2/8 chance of fucking up a protown power role. If you jailkeep a scum person night 1, you've got a 1/3 chance of stopping a kill, and if you don't, you still might fuck up a scum power role. Which do you think is a better idea?

[Final Destination]

We're gonna take a break from posting, let the game breathe for a bit. But Balam has all but claimed scum in thread.

He literally agrees with PC we are town, unvotes us off L-1, AND asks for our role all in one post.

FUCK NO.

One last thing:

Two last things:

it looks like he's constantly trying to lynch people who are threats to him for tactical reasons,

Ok. Why would I need to do this if I had a night kill again?

Just wondering.

Fate, who's town now? Me or Copper? You're running out of room in your scumgroup to put everyone who suspects you.

Your recent spurt of posts are a tale told by an idiot scum, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

We don't know. We're unsure. Not everyone suspecting is scum. FES isn't scum. One of you and Balam isn't scum, and since it sure as hell is BALAM right now you look a lot better. We're not going to be sold hard on either your or Copper's alignments until a couple more round of NKs, aka after Yos scum and Balamscum are lynched.

AGM and Fate OUT

[Balam]

(Equinox)

MINDSCREW INCOMING. PLEASE STAND BY FOR THE VOLCANIC EXPLOSION.

If at all possible I want Copper, Final Destination, and YosFlavouredCayke to stick around for a few more minutes because I want real-time interaction with you three. If anyone else logs in and sees this, having you pitch in as well would be awesome.

The reason for this request will very soon be apparent. I'm getting AGar to look over this now.

[Lord Fonzi]

I'm here. Looks like fate might be gone though.

[Final Destination]

I'm writing a paper for class in two hours.

I'd much rather be entertained by a scum dance though.

Lay it on us, Jester.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

All right, bitches. It's time.

I don't care how scummy this looks given the recent attacks against us for role fishing, but they are all true, and here is why:

We are a town role cop. We investigated YosFlavouredCayke on Night 1 and received the result of "roleblock and protect," indicating jailkeeper. We investigated Final Destination on Night 2 and received the result of "no abilities," indicating vanilla.

If you do not believe this claim, I urge you to go back in our iso. We outed YosFlavouredCayke's role in an effort to get them to crumb their targets to us, but apparently the song went woosh and we could not push this point further without claiming ourselves. We forced a claim out of them in part because their ignorance/dismissal of our rather blatant crumb-claim might have suggested scum avoiding locking themselves into a response; however, YosFlavouredCayke's responses since their claim led all 3 of us to think they were town.

We were fishing for Final Destination's claim because we found it hard to believe that Final Destination was playing a "dodge the NK" game as vanilla, and we were egging them to claim to see if they'd claim a power role. Instead, we got a bunch of softclaims. I wanted Final Destination to tell me outright if they were softclaiming, but with them turning on the jetpacks toward Balam-scum, getting a response now is unlikely, so here you are: We have claimed in your stead.

I stand by my "backpedal" based on Incognito's post 1262. AGar is still bothered by some of Final Destination's comments toward YosFlavouredCayke; I will let him handle those, since those are his thoughts.

This post is most likely going to heavily implicate us in some scum team or other. Our stances are what they are, and we are town.

[Copper]

If you do not believe this claim, I urge you to go back in our iso. We outed YosFlavouredCayke's role in an effort to get them to crumb their targets to us, but apparently the song went woosh and we could not push this point further without claiming ourselves. We forced a claim out of them in part because their ignorance/dismissal of our rather blatant crumb-claim might have suggested

scum avoiding locking themselves into a response

; however, YosFlavouredCayke's responses since their claim led all 3 of us to think they were town.

So you believed that there could have been a scum Jailkeeper? And that this was likely enough of a possibility to deliberately out the protective role?

[Lord Fonzi]

My thoughts-

I've never seen a scum JK in a completed game.
Struggling to see any way Balam's actions here make sense for scum.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Mafia jailkeepers exist.

RayFrost and I felt that the song lyric was obscure enough to likely get missed but would become plainly obvious when either we or YosFlavouredCayke claimed. In other words, it was the ideal crumb.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Luckily for you, Lord Fonzi, I've got just the thing:

Mini Normal, modded by Parama, where Tazaro the mafia jailkeeper was lynched on Day 1

(If anyone challenges how I so readily called this game, go to Tazaro's wiki page and look up the edit history.)

[Copper]

Mafia Jailkeepers exist...in games with multiple killing factions. I doubt there has been a normal game where Mafia had access to a protection ability they couldn't possibly make use of. This seems like a distinction at least one of the three heads could have picked up on after getting the "roleblock and protect" result.

[Lord Fonzi]

OK, so Yos isn't clear beyond a shadow of a doubt, but the 'TROLOLOL HE'S A SCUM ROLEBLOCKER' argument goes out the window at least.

Hopefully, this should make the right choice today even clearer.

[Final Destination]

[AGM]

Okay Fate isn't on AIM anymore, but this is just too ripe of a situation for me to not claim. And I don't think Fate would object to something this awesome….

We aren't Vanilla. We're a cop.

N1 we investigated Daspot and got town. We chose him because we thought he was a ripe target for mislynch by scum, and wanted to make sure he was saved.

N2 we investigated UB/Mastermate and also got town. We choose UB because he was being a fucking unreadable trainwreck. We knew he wouldn't be nightkilled, so it would be good to have the slight paranoia there cleared up as the wild card in our reads.

There are plenty of breadcrumbs if anyone needs this.

It's insanely obvious at this point that Yos and Balam are scum together. Balam, realizing Yos is going to die today and he's going to die tomorrow, figured it would be better to try and claim and save both of them rather than needing to think of a fakeclaim tomorrow. This also explains why Balam was so desperate to get a softclaim out of us earlier - he wanted to know whether we were a safe target to lie about.

Lynch both, please and thank you.

[Final Destination]

[AGM]

Unvote. Vote: Balam

.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Oh, come on. I expected at least some jaws to drop. We rushed into this without RayFrost's input because we wanted to hear from you lot in real-time, and instead you've all scurried away like a bunch of chickens. Thanks for helping me get a read on you; I love you all, too.

To address the posts from before the bomb:

I KNOW, RIGHT, IM JUST GOING TO BACK AWAY SLOWLY AFTER BEING CALLED OUT FOR THE SCUMMIEST ROLEFISHING THATS EVER FISHED AND SAY "LOL FD BACKPEDALED AGAIN <_< >_>

Actually, I was referring to my own backpedal on you as a point of irony, since I'd just accused you of doing the same.

He literally agrees with PC we are town, unvotes us off L-1, AND asks for our role all in one post.

Yes, the question did matter, regardless of my read of you based on Incognito's case. Now that I've posted a claim, my post there probably makes more sense, but I am going to reiterate anyway: We investigated you as vanilla, yet when you were posting in response to us, you were softclaiming by way of "I am dodging NKs because I'm playing to my win condition." Having you answer that question would have helped us get a more solid read on you as opposed to listening to someone unconfirmed make a defense for you.

---

Cutting this short since AGar has brought this to my attention:

We aren't Vanilla. We're a cop.

CONFIRMED SCUM. ALL SYSTEMS GO!

Vote: Final Destination

When we flip town, you're going to have

a lot

of fun tomorrow in LyLo. Looking forward to watching the jaws drop this time.

[Lord Fonzi]

unvote

Don't know what the fuck to think right now, but I know this doesn't need to end soon.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Actually, I hinted at your vanilla status since the start of the day. Starting with post 942 when I say your play has been all over the place. It's not consistent with a vanilla role, where one would be playing balls to the wall. Even before we tried to discern the softclaim, I already called you out for playing in a way to dodge a NK, because there's no reason for a VT to dodge a NK.

So better luck next time.

[Profane Confusion]

unvote

I'd like Final Destination to point out any and all of their breadcrumbs. I don't completely understand the reasons for the investigation choices they're claiming to have made.

[Final Destination]

[AGM]

I read 942 and I don't get how it hints at vanilla status at all. AT ALL. Moreover, even if it does in some incredibly obscure and muddled way, so what? You decided on Day 3 that it might be a good idea to have a fakeclaim? Wooooo. Did you breadcrumb at all before then?