The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Balam]

(Equinox)

In your so convenient breadcrumb, you forgot one thing - you only list Unicorn as town in two votecounts. Out of 7.

Wait. This means that Final Destination didn't plan out their DaSpotthatkillsu investigation target until just now.

I've been doing some thinking about how they've been playing in a rock hard tunnel for a significant portion of the game without even trying to look at other possibilities. Could Kcdaspot have suddenly gotten cocksure about YosFlavouredCayke and decided to target them to exclusion? It's possible. However, there's another possibility I'm toying with here.

RayFrost and I have been giving them a pass because Kcdaspot has been a nervous, twitching mess in the past two (newbie) games we've seen him play scum. It would also make sense for scum to ramp up their confidence and belligerence to mask their nervousness playing scum, and we'd indicated very early in the game that we were going to pass them on a personality-based read. DaSpotthatkillsu's behavior thus far is easy to fake, like Final Destination's rage posting.

Kill the following: Profane Confusion, Copper, DaSpotthatkillsu, Frogito Ergo Sum

There are two scum in there, for sure. I am betting good money on Profane Confusion flipping scum. Now, here's another problem: Profane Confusion is playing so ridiculously scummy that it's likely they are setting themselves up for a fall. If that is indeed what they are doing, there is a scumbag nobody is suspecting right now and can survive to LyLo and win the game for the team.

That person might actually be DaSpotthatkillsu.

Lynch the Incognito hydra first, though.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Random thought: Once Fate is lynched and flips scum, you're a confirmed town info role and the obvious scum target, Balam. I wonder if I could prevent your nightkill by announcing, in thread, that I'm going to flip a coin; if it comes up heads, I target balam, if it comes up tails, I don't. Scum logically should not take a 50/50 chance on failing a kill, especially in the very tight position they'll be in tommorow.

I'm just brainstorming here, but since I'm claimed anyway, this seems like a good chance for some fun WIFOM mind games with the scum. Your thoughts, Balam?

[Copper]

Balam:

Mafia Jailkeepers exist...in games with multiple killing factions. I doubt there has been a normal game where Mafia had access to a protection ability they couldn't possibly make use of. This seems like a distinction at least one of the three heads could have picked up on after getting the "roleblock and protect" result.

I would like your reasoning on why you suspected YossarianFlavoredCayke could be scum.

[Lord Fonzi]

Yos, you blatantly stole that cointoss idea from me.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Post 1235 was a group effort, by the way.

Random thought: Once Fate is lynched and flips scum, you're a confirmed town info role and the obvious scum target, Balam. I wonder if I could prevent your nightkill by announcing, in thread, that I'm going to flip a coin; if it comes up heads, I target balam, if it comes up tails, I don't. Scum logically should not take a 50/50 chance on failing a kill, especially in the very tight position they'll be in tommorow.

*cackle*

I would like your reasoning on why you suspected YossarianFlavoredCayke could be scum.

It was for the same line of questioning that Profane Confusion pursued YosFlavouredCayke earlier today: For a jailkeeper so certain of a town read on Pathetric, they let Pathetric die. There was some disagreement between us since it was highly unlikely for YosFlavouredCayke to kill off as strong an ally as Pathetric and that, given BeaverWeasel's musing about a possible masonry, YosFlavouredCayke could have gotten away with letting Pathetric live for a while because there were others (i.e., me) who thought the same thing and would have given YosFlavouredCayke a pass.

[Copper]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. What I am saying is,

in a game with only one kill a night for two nights

, why did you suspect YossarianFlavoredCayke could be scum?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Because we never actually put any thought into setup speculation. Silly but true. We saw YosFlavouredCayke act scummy, and we saw the PM that stated their abilities. We put two and two together and came up with mafia jailkeeper.

[Profane Confusion]

Balam, I don't see why you're going into an almost victory-dance mode; whether or not Final Destination is scum doesn't change the fact that I still have a town role PM in my inbox. Obviously I probably could and should expect a lot of heat for my actions around Final Destination if he is scum, but I'm fully prepared to defend myself should that time come because I'm still town.

What's been "ridiculously scummy" about me? You (and I'm looking at you, Equinox) haven't said anything like that all game; in fact, you used my reasoning about Fate to end up unvoting in the first place.

Also, I hate to lament like this in the thread because someone will undoubtedly try to say that I'm attempting to spread paranoia or some b.s. like that, but I find it really odd that you supposedly claim to have investigated the exact two people who ended up on the chopping block right here down to the wire on Day 3. What made you choose them as your targets?

- Incog

[Lord Fonzi]

It doesn't strike me as impossible, in a one-scumteam game with a rolecop, that the mod would have given the scum a JK with the protective ability being redundant, to protect said role from the rolecop.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Incognito, that would be because I only very recently got a scum read on you. The tipping point was smargaret's attempt to push the lynch off the Balam and Final Destination dichotomy -- a surefire 1:1 -- onto YosFlavouredCayke, a slot that is certainly a lot more questionable than either us or Final Destination, even if they are, in my eyes, as good as confirmed town. Town benefits from this lynch regardless of who dies, but lynching outside of the leading pair could prove detrimental should that outside lynch hit town. That is scum motivation.

We chose YosFlavouredCayke on Night 1 because I had a mason read on them, and I wanted to confirm that. My reasoning was that I could potentially clear two town players in one night, and both would have been great players to follow.

We chose Final Destination on Night 2 because of their U-curve play. At first they were actively hunting in the thread, and then when they weren't getting their way with Frogito Ergo Sum, Fate pouted and the activity decreased up until we pushed the GummyBear flash wagon. If they were a power role, their lying low would have made sense as town play; otherwise, there wasn't a reason for them to play that way.

It's funny. I was glad that coincidence occurred today because it gave us the opportunity to claim fish.

It doesn't strike me as impossible, in a one-scumteam game with a rolecop, that the mod would have given the scum a JK with the protective ability being redundant, to protect said role from the rolecop.

YosFlavouredCayke's ability is specifically protection and roleblocking. They're not an alien.

[Lord Fonzi]

We chose Final Destination on Night 2 because of their U-curve play. At first they were actively hunting in the thread, and then when they weren't getting their way with Frogito Ergo Sum, Fate pouted and the activity decreased up until we pushed the GummyBear flash wagon. If they were a power role, their lying low would have made sense as town play; otherwise, there wasn't a reason for them to play that way.

Wait, if that's true, why did you not support the wagon out of the gate?

It doesn't strike me as impossible, in a one-scumteam game with a rolecop, that the mod would have given the scum a JK with the protective ability being redundant, to protect said role from the rolecop.

YosFlavouredCayke's ability is specifically protection and roleblocking. They're not an alien.

[/quote]

I didn't say anything about an alien. I said that the lack of a second killing group suggests, but does not confirm, that the role is in town hands, since there could be a scum JK so that the rolecop doesn't go 'Roleblocker derp lynch."

[Profane Confusion]

Well, I'll let smargaret respond on her own behalf their but looking at my QT she said something to the effect of (paraphrasing) 'there's no scum motivation for scum-Balam to clear town-YFC'. I'm assuming she was thinking along the lines of Yos potentially being a scum JK and since you're claiming rolecop, you'd have no real idea about what alignment Yos actually is should your claim be true.

Preview edit: I'd like to see a response to Lord Fonzi's question too.

- Incog

[Lord Fonzi]

unvote

Not really a change of intent, I just got really burned by leaving someone in quickhammer range overnight once, and i don't intend to repeat it.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I didn't say anything about an alien. I said that the lack of a second killing group suggests, but does not confirm, that the role is in town hands, since there could be a scum JK so that the rolecop doesn't go 'Roleblocker derp lynch."

Ah. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

Wait, if that's true, why did you not support the wagon out of the gate?

From what I'm seeing in the QuickTopic as of the start of Day 3:

• AGar suspected a {Final Destination, YosFlavouredCayke} pairing, and he and RayFrost had had a discussion about it.
• Equinox was behind in the thread and could not offer input with regards to Final Destination or YosFlavouredCayke.
• RayFrost saw Unicorn Brethren leaving Balam out of Greymarble's list of suspects and thought they were scum deliberately building connections to us.
• I'd raged earlier about Unicorn Brethren being possibly scum due to something ReaperCharlie posted about the hydra, and my rage still held as of the start of the day.

tl;dr: I'm not sure. That's what happened in the QuickTopic; you have what happened in the thread. If my memory serves me correctly, we didn't post (or at least anything substantial) and then we decided we were lynching Unicorn Brethren instead.

Well, I'll let smargaret respond on her own behalf their but looking at my QT she said something to the effect of (paraphrasing) 'there's no scum motivation for scum-Balam to clear town-YFC'. I'm assuming she was thinking along the lines of Yos potentially being a scum JK and since you're claiming rolecop, you'd have no real idea about what alignment Yos actually is should your claim be true.

So, instead of lynching one of the two cops, she wants to lynch the "potential mafia jailkeeper" instead? lolnoscum.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Eh, I went back and looked. Our first post of Day 3 was post 942; AGar FoSed Final Destination but wanted to lynch Unicorn Brethren first.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

What's been "ridiculously scummy" about me?

You've been going to frankly absurd lengths to defend the all-but-confirmed scum Fate, and your attempts to try to lynch me instead have become increasingly improbable as the day has gone ony. You're entirely in your scum meta, and there are links between your player slot and Fate's slot that go all the way back to early on day 1. You made an attempt early in the day to obscure your motives, (the subtle way you kept trying to bring attention back to DaSpot instead of Fate is especially noteworthy), but as it's become increasingly clear that today is an all or nothing affair, you've decided to push all your chips to the middle of the table and bet it all on this hand, and try to lynch me. Honestly, if you were town, I don't think it would have even occurred to you that it was plausible that Yos-scum would have killed Ether-town on night one. You've consistently had a double standard involving me and Fate, where you claim that actions on the part of Fate prove he's town while ignoring the same actions on the part of me.

You probably should have bussed Fate early in the day, but to be honest, even by that point, it was already too late.

You've probably got that little grin on your face you always get when you're trapped scum, don't you.

Don't feel too bad. It's not really your fault that you got caught; the guys you replaced put you in a really bad position. You played as well as you could with the cards you were dealt.

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

On the other hand, I don't see any reason for Balam to fakeclaim there. It's also consistant with the way he was demanding I claim or die on the spot, hestiated when I hinted I was a power role, and then dropped it completly when I claimed jailkeeper.

hang on they investigated you.

they KNEW that.

why did they wait for you to claim to confirm your role? why did they press for your role?


NOT BUYING IT.

FD's claim came WAY too soon to be fake. immediately (or as soon as he saw the post), w/o his partner here AGM claimed cop.

I don't think he's bullshitting.

doubt? READ DGB'S SIG.
IT TOOK YOU 2 DAYS TO COME UP WITH JAILKEEP AND BALAM TO BACK YOU. TWO DAYS. IT TOOK MINUTES FOR AGM TO CLAIM.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

If we are lying, DaSpotthatkillsu, where is your vote?

{DaSpotthatkillsu, Final Destination, Profane Confusion}

Good game, town.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

FD's claim came WAY too soon to be fake. immediately (or as soon as he saw the post), w/o his partner here AGM claimed cop.

Fate fakeclaims the way most people breathe.

The fact that he came up with the fakeclaim so quickly becomes obvious when you start poking at it, though. It doesn't really hold together. Fate is claiming that this was a breadcrumb of his unicorn investigation:

AGM is online, and has persuaded me to stop arguing with scum because I'm just "feeding the trolls" and giving them ammo and bullshit. If my TOWNREADS have any questions or need any persuation to vote Yos, then please feel free to ask. Here's some analysis to help you see what I see:

A Vote Count:

Final Destination (4) -

Greymarble,

YosCayke,

Unicorn,

Frog Ergo Sum

Pathetric (2)

- Beaver, Final Destination
DaSpotthatkillsu (1) - Balam,

Unicorn (1)

- Reckamonic
Mrs Flay (1) - Mrs Flay

This is the corner stone to my analysis of this game, because I know I am town and I know I was run up on bullshit D1.

But you notice what is missing? He dosn't have you in green, even though he claims he got a guilty on you.

Do you really think that a cop trying to breadcrumb his results would have several people in green as "confirmed town", but wouldn't do that for one of the two people he had an innocent on?

He's done these in other posts, too, and he's never had you in green.

He's lying about the breadcrumb.

IT TOOK YOU 2 DAYS TO COME UP WITH JAILKEEP AND BALAM TO BACK YOU. TWO DAYS. IT TOOK MINUTES FOR AGM TO CLAIM.

I waited 24 hours to claim, because I needed to get a response from Incognito first. I knew that once I claimed, all I'd get was mafia theory crap attacking my claim, and that wouldn't tell me what I needed to know. I needed to hear his justifaction for voting me first.

Until that point, I wasn't 100% sure if he was scum or not, and I needed to be. After that point, I was.

[Final Destination]

HEHEHEA
HEAEHAEHHEAHAHAHEH
AE
HAEHAEHEHAHAEHEHAHEAHAHE

YAUS CAUGHT SCUM IS CAUGHT.

AND ALL HE CAN DO IS ROLLOVER AND DIE, THERES NO WAY HE CAN COME UP WITH A "HURR DURR FATE COUNTER CLAIMED ME AS SCUM DAY BEFORE LYLO FOR KIX" EXCUSE OR ANYTHING.

INSTEAD YOSBUDDY DOES IT FOR HIM.


"TEHEHHEHE FATE FAKECLAIMED BECAUSE ONCE BALAMBUDYD CONFIRMED ME FATE WAS GONAA GET LYNCHED"

NOPE, NOT REALLY. YOUR BUDDY WAS EVEN FENCE SITTING WITH "WELL I HAZ SEEN SCUM JKS BEFORE >_>b" IN CASE TOWN WANTED YOU LYNCHED REGARDLESS.

PLAN BACKFIRED.

YOU DASPOT, BALAMSCUM HAS A POINT. VOTE BALAM HES 100% SCUM OVER YOSCAYKE 99% SCUM.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

(Equinox)

If we are lying, DaSpotthatkillsu, where is your vote?

{DaSpotthatkillsu, Final Destination, Profane Confusion}

Good game, town.

I'm not so sure about Spot. There was this weird thing Incognito's been doing all day, where I attack Fate, and he then questions me about why I'm attacking Fate and Spot. I got the vibe that Incog was trying to defend one town and one scum at the same time, to try to make the links a little less obvious. Plus, I don't know if Fate would declare one of his buddies town at at time like this.

It's nothing I would bet on, but...Spot could be town here.

[Final Destination]

FD's claim came WAY too soon to be fake. immediately (or as soon as he saw the post), w/o his partner here AGM claimed cop.

Fate fakeclaims the way most people breathe.

The fact that he came up with the fakeclaim so quickly becomes obvious when you start poking at it, though. It doesn't really hold together. Fate is claiming that this was a breadcrumb of his unicorn investigation:

Do you really think that a cop trying to breadcrumb his results would have several people in green as "confirmed town", but wouldn't do that for one of the two people he had an innocent on?

He's done these in other posts, too, and he's never had you in green.

He's lying about the breadcrumb.

SCRAMBLE SCRAMBLE SCRAMBLE.

THAT THE BEST YOU CAN COME UP WITH?

I WROTE THE BREADCRUMB, NOT AGM, SO HE COULDNT EXPLAIN FULLY.


D2 IT WAS OBVIOUS HAD DASPOT AS CONFIRMED TOWN. I DEFENDED HIM LIKE NO OTHER. A FLIP THAT NIGHT WOULDVE MADE PEOPLE GO "k he had an innocent on daspot" D3 WAS A LITTLE TRICKER. I PUT UNICORN IN ALL GREEN TO IMPLY "REALLY STRONGASS TOWN READ" SO THAT NO ONE WOULD GIVE IT A SECOND GLANCE, AKA SCUMS LIKE YOU.

IF I HA DFILLED UP HALF THE FUCKING BOARD WITH MY "GREEN TOWN READS" SCUM WOULD GO "DING DING DING COP WITH INNOCENTS" AND LIKE I SAID IVE BEEN TRYIN TO AVOID THE NK TO POE THIS SHIT DOWN.


LETS GO TOWN ALLIANCE.


FONZI I GOT NICE GOOD VIBES OFF YOUR UNVOTE TO SLOW THINGS DOWN. WELCOME TO THE TOWN CLUB, EITHER ONE OF YOU OR FESTOWN NEEDS TO JOIN AND WE'LL HAVE A 5 VOTING BLOCK ALLIANCE TO LYNCH BALAM. COPPER'S GONNA SIDE WITH ME REGARDLESS SO THATS:

PC, FD, DASPOT, MASTERMATE, COPPER.

OH WAIT THATS 5 RIGHT THERE

EHAHEHHAEHHAHEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Balam]

(Equinox)

AND ALL HE CAN DO IS ROLLOVER AND DIE, THERES NO WAY HE CAN COME UP WITH A "HURR DURR FATE COUNTER CLAIMED ME AS SCUM DAY BEFORE LYLO FOR KIX" EXCUSE OR ANYTHING.

That would be because we don't have to fight our own lynch. I know that once we die and flip town, you're next, and I have confidence in a town with this level of competency to lynch your two painfully obvious buddies. I don't have much to lose. You, on the other hand, are about to lose a heck of a lot.

Final Destination has no moves left!
Final Destination uses STRUGGLE!
Final Destination is hit with recoil!

Final Destination has fainted!

Well, this might not come for a couple of rounds.

I'm not so sure about Spot. There was this weird thing Incognito's been doing all day, where I attack Fate, and he then questions me about why I'm attacking Fate and Spot. I got the vibe that Incog was trying to defend one town and one scum at the same time, to try to make the links a little less obvious. Plus, I don't know if Fate would declare one of his buddies town at at time like this.

Hmm... Fate's capable of anything, but you do have a point about Incognito. It's just that DaSpotthatkillsu's reaction right now spelled out "S-C-U-M" in capital letters and flashy lights.

[Final Destination]

I think I agree with the above. There seems to be stronger motivation to fake on the part of FD, who were pretty much certainly going down if they didn't do something spectacular, than Balam, since there were pretty good odds of FD being lynched anyway when he claimed.

If we lynch Fate and he's town, then the worst that can happen is the game goes to endgame, because I can't see for the life of me why scum Balam would pull that gambit to save a town Yos.

If we lynch Balam and he's town, the situation is much worse, because we aren't then handed two scum and two confirmed innocents (as I type this the possibility of there being a godfather enters my head. Humph). Nonetheless, I think it's both more likely Fate is the scum here, and town's also in a better position if we're wrong that way, than if we go for Balam and he flips town: in that scenario, scum get an extra day of LyLo.

Vote: Final Destination

Oh whammy....

Why is Yos so specatcualrly fucking town? Why can't you see a Balam scum and Yos scum team?


Hell, I'll give you a Ysotown rope.


So Balam scumrole cop "confirms" Yos' role, and then we mislynch someone. Tonight Hypo Yostown dies, tomorrow Balam is "confirmed" town at MyLo. THERE IS TOTES SUCM MOTIVATION HERE.


But w/e they are both scum together and this game was about to be broken PoE style if the Yos lynch had gone through as expected, so BalamnCrew drop a gambit.

Too bad they fucked up and thought I was a VT trying to WIFOM dodge the NK (by declaring I wanted to avoid the NK, I wanted to draw it aka).


Now you tell me why I would counter-claim a Role Cop as scum when he just "confirmed" I was a VT? I could've coasted on the VT claim since Copper, PC, Daspot, and Mastermate all want to have nothing to do with my lynch.

This "Fate was going to be run up unless he did domsethign crazy" STOP USING SCUMS WORDS. You're letting Yosscum put words in your mouth, think for your fucking self Fonzi. Get up to the level PC, Daspot, and Copper are playing at for the love of town.

[Final Destination]

(Equinox)

AND ALL HE CAN DO IS ROLLOVER AND DIE, THERES NO WAY HE CAN COME UP WITH A "HURR DURR FATE COUNTER CLAIMED ME AS SCUM DAY BEFORE LYLO FOR KIX" EXCUSE OR ANYTHING.

That would be because we don't have to fight our own lynch. I know that once we die and flip town, you're next, and I have confidence in a town with this level of competency to lynch your two painfully obvious buddies. I don't have much to lose. You, on the other hand, are about to lose a heck of a lot.

Final Destination has no moves left!
Final Destination uses STRUGGLE!
Final Destination is hit with recoil!

Final Destination has fainted!

Well, this might not come for a couple of rounds.

I'm not so sure about Spot. There was this weird thing Incognito's been doing all day, where I attack Fate, and he then questions me about why I'm attacking Fate and Spot. I got the vibe that Incog was trying to defend one town and one scum at the same time, to try to make the links a little less obvious. Plus, I don't know if Fate would declare one of his buddies town at at time like this.

Hmm... Fate's capable of anything, but you do have a point about Incognito. It's just that DaSpotthatkillsu's reaction right now spelled out "S-C-U-M" in capital letters and flashy lights.

Struggle? I'm the one that counter-claimed YOU scum bag. BUt alas, I'm done talking to confirmed scum, its up to the rest of town.

FES will likely follow suit.

With Fonzi/FES+3 scum, my lynch is secured. So I'll have to sit and talk to Fonzi/FES.

I won't even use caps.

Let's have a nice chat, I can bring up non-role related reasons for why Balam is scum, starting from his supposed "UB policy lynch" that dropped into nothingness when Mastermate replaced in, going all the way back to his "let's mislynch Gummy instead, or at worst hey we get a no lynch forced!"

Or Copper could do it, since he does have a way with words and a nice hard on for Balamscum.