Newbie 1079: Feed the Lynch Mob (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 2.08

Nachomamma8 (3) - Voidedmafia, pandabear, GreyICE

Herodotus (1) - Nachomamma8
tarsonisocelot (1) - Glass

Not Voting (2) - Herodotus, tarsonisocelot

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, May 1, 2011, at 11:59 PM EDT (UTC-4).[/area]

[Nachomamma8]

Putting these together, it looks like you're suggesting that you were unlynchable.

Haven't been lynched on D1 so far, not going to let it happen now.
But, normally ICs on day 1 are pretty unlynchable, barring some terrible play.

Also, lynching a townie other than Sn1 would not have been any improvement over lynching Sn1.

Why not?
Lynching a scummy townie is infinitely better than lynching someone I know is town.

Also, removing the momentum for a Sn1 lynch was a task I wasn't sure could be done, and if I couldn't do that, I could still draw everyone's attention to you.

Fair enough.

Was that the reason you didn't respond?

Nope. I didn't respond because I wasn't around.

And the "rocks fall, everyone dies" bit was just an dramatization, it wasn't meant to be serious. The point was that it wouldn't be something the town could've sorted out in four days. I mean, look at TO, thil, and pandabear and how lost they've been in our fight that we've been having for a while now. Imagine them trying to sort out a more frenzied version of this battle in a shorter amount of time.

Your low degree of presence here is annoying, especially as there have been times when you've spent time posting in other threads and not this one. If you don't catch up soon, I'm going to hammer without waiting for a claim.

I've been neglecting more places than just this one, and when I was catching up elsewhere, I thought I'd have more time than I did.

[Glass]

WTF PANDA EXPLAIN YOURSELF. Saying: "lol, nacho is scum" does not cut it for me.

[Nachomamma8]

Really nacho? Don't you pressure people who you think are scum? And snipe saying that he would have voted for panda except that would put him at L-1 adds pressure without him voting. How does this correspond with this post?

How doesn't it?
Snipe said before that he thought panda was scum. When he actually voted panda, however, he voted not because panda was scum, but because he wanted to add more pressure to generate more conversation.

Nacho has recently been arguing with hero recently and I really like hero's point's on nacho and don't really find nacho's answers satisfactory. For example nacho attacking hero for not letting him respond when he was away is just ridiculous. By that logic any scum who hasn't been targeted ~a week before deadline could just lurk until the end, and be like "YOU DIDNT GIVE ME A CHANCE TO DEFEND MYSELF WTF" if anyone attacked him.

And that would be perfectly and absolutely okay. Town's responsibility is to watch the deadline; four days before deadline is not the time to bring up an attack on a suspect you haven't mentioned before.

Was that all of the case you had against me?

[Nachomamma8]

@ICE: I got your back bro

vote: Nacho

That is L-1, ya?

Well, I suppose Glass's case is better than this.

I've watched this thread since it was on page 5, but I'll have to read again to make sure what I've thought as a neutral observer fits with what I'll think of as an actual participant.

...and then there's the problem that I can't remember what I thought while I was watching -_-

Well, I mean, I can't go into a whole lot of detail about it, as that will come with a proper re-read, but just going off of what I remember, I thought Grey was town, Glass is townish, and everyone else is null until I can go over it again.

It's not a whole lot for a first content-full post, I know, but like I said, better reads will come once I can look this over again. Probably during N2, if Nacho gets lynched before the IRL week's up.

I'm not even sure what to make of this...

[Herodotus]

Also, lynching a townie other than Sn1 would not have been any improvement over lynching Sn1.

Why not?
Lynching a scummy townie is infinitely better than lynching someone I know is town.

And how many people "knew" that Sn1 was town? Your point is only valid if Sn1 wouldn't have been lynched day 2, either over my objection or over my dead body.

And the "rocks fall, everyone dies" bit was just an dramatization, it wasn't meant to be serious. The point was that it wouldn't be something the town could've sorted out in four days. I mean, look at TO, thil, and pandabear and how lost they've been in our fight that we've been having for a while now. Imagine them trying to sort out a more frenzied version of this battle in a shorter amount of time.

There was an important question there that you skipped:
How would negative consequences result?
Even if they were confused or didn't follow the argument while it was happening, (and assuming they're all townies) I don't see how that leads to "everyone dies".

Note that I care more about your answers to others' questions (Grey asked some, at least) than your answers to this.

[Glass]

How doesn't it?
Snipe said before that he thought panda was scum. When he actually voted panda, however, he voted not because panda was scum, but because he wanted to add more pressure to generate more conversation.

YES. BECAUSE YOU PRESSURE VOTE PPL WHO YOU THINK MIGHT BE SCUM. You don't just randomly throw out a "pressure vote" on someone you think is town.

And that would be perfectly and absolutely okay. Town's responsibility is to watch the deadline; four days before deadline is not the time to bring up an attack on a suspect you haven't mentioned before.

First sentence: What is absolutely okay?
Second sentence: >bring up truism that does not counter the attack at all and pretend that it does

Was that all of the case you had against me?

That was what I decided to comment on, I suppose I could copy-pasta some of hero's posts if you really wanted but it would needlessly crowd the thread.

[Glass]

So nacho, are you going to wave your hands and exclaim that I attacked tars ~a week to deadline when she has not been attacked as of late?

[Herodotus]

four days before deadline is not the time to bring up an attack on a suspect you haven't mentioned before.

I only joined the game seven days before that deadline...

Speaking of deadlines, I didn't realize until just now that we are getting close to the deadline for day 2.

[Nachomamma8]

1) Can you clean up your formatting a bit? It's text walling a bit badly. Makes it hard to understand some shit.

I'll make an attempt at this later, but quote-striping is just the easiest way to address everything.

For all that you say Hero had weak reads, that doesn't feel like a particularly strong conviction he would flip scum. What made it worthwhile riding that wagon to the end of day?

It was worthwhile lynching him because I felt that he was scum above everyone else, and his answers just weren't good enough for me. No one else jumped out, and so I stayed.

This is an odd pattern of interactions. What's your reasoning here?

Generally, it's ignore town, focus on scum.

4) Assume for a second hero is town, because I just got kicked in the ass over redoing my reads - what's the most likely team?

Not sure right now, will address in a later post.
Off the top of my head, I'd say panda/thil's replacement.

5) The misrep on the entire answer to the Sn1pe question - does Hero's answer make sense? Is that still WIFOM? How hard is that worth pushing?

I think this has been addressed in my responses to Herod.

- I have done?
- Traveller has done?
- Panda has done?

-You've waffled on the me-Hero fight quite a bit and yet have never voted Hero. You also didn't follow up to these questions; you let me go through without answering, and probably never would've brought it up unless hero mentioned something.
-Not answering this question. Traveller is town.
-Panda's Hero to me vote was pretty scummy, but I'll be going through ISOs later, so I'll tell you then.

We all seem to have slid into comfortable town reads to you. Have you questioned or poked that?

Questioning Panda.
You and Traveller, not so much.

1) Can you clean up your formatting a bit? It's text walling a bit badly. Makes it hard to understand some shit.

I'll make an attempt at this later, but quote-striping is just the easiest way to address everything.

For all that you say Hero had weak reads, that doesn't feel like a particularly strong conviction he would flip scum. What made it worthwhile riding that wagon to the end of day?

It was worthwhile lynching him because I felt that he was scum above everyone else, and his answers just weren't good enough for me. No one else jumped out, and so I stayed.

This is an odd pattern of interactions. What's your reasoning here?

Generally, it's ignore town, focus on scum.

4) Assume for a second hero is town, because I just got kicked in the ass over redoing my reads - what's the most likely team?

Not sure right now, will address in a later post.
Off the top of my head, I'd say panda/thil's replacement.

5) The misrep on the entire answer to the Sn1pe question - does Hero's answer make sense? Is that still WIFOM? How hard is that worth pushing?

I think this has been addressed in my responses to Herod.

- I have done?
- Traveller has done?
- Panda has done?

-You've waffled on the me-Hero fight quite a bit and yet have never voted Hero. You also didn't follow up to these questions; you let me go through without answering, and probably never would've brought it up unless hero mentioned something.
-Not answering this question. Traveller is town.
-Panda's Hero to me vote was pretty scummy, but I'll be going through ISOs later, so I'll tell you then.

We all seem to have slid into comfortable town reads to you. Have you questioned or poked that?

Questioning Panda.
You and Traveller, not so much.

7) What's your impression of Panda's vote for Hero?

When he made it, I didn't think anything of it.
Now, I figure that he was just going for Hero because he thought he was likelier to be lynched.

I see no problem with Traveller's vote on me, even though he lacks good reasoning.

[Nachomamma8]

four days before deadline is not the time to bring up an attack on a suspect you haven't mentioned before.

I only joined the game seven days before that deadline...

Speaking of deadlines, I didn't realize until just now that we are getting close to the deadline for day 2.

For all my talk of town having to be aware of deadlines, I missed it too.

I'm a cop with a N1 innocent on tars.
Killing me gives a free confirmed town, so I guess it's not all that bad.
But I want time to post on some non-Hero people and then post on Hero some more, so keep waiting patiently...

[tarsonisocelot]

four days before deadline is not the time to bring up an attack on a suspect you haven't mentioned before.

I only joined the game seven days before that deadline...

Speaking of deadlines, I didn't realize until just now that we are getting close to the deadline for day 2.

For all my talk of town having to be aware of deadlines, I missed it too.

I'm a cop with a N1 innocent on tars.
Killing me gives a free confirmed town, so I guess it's not all that bad.
But I want time to post on some non-Hero people and then post on Hero some more, so keep waiting patiently...

Ok, I'm not going to vote Nacho right after this claim.

Why did you investigate me last night?

[Voidedmafia]

I've watched this thread since it was on page 5, but I'll have to read again to make sure what I've thought as a neutral observer fits with what I'll think of as an actual participant.

...and then there's the problem that I can't remember what I thought while I was watching -_-

Well, I mean, I can't go into a whole lot of detail about it, as that will come with a proper re-read, but just going off of what I remember, I thought Grey was town, Glass is townish, and everyone else is null until I can go over it again.

It's not a whole lot for a first content-full post, I know, but like I said, better reads will come once I can look this over again. Probably during N2, if Nacho gets lynched before the IRL week's up.

I'm not even sure what to make of this...

Hero asked me to give my neutral reads of people and why, and I forgot. Is that so wrong?

Had my computer taken away from me yesterday, so I didn't have much time to post except for here and there. I had meant to do my re-read yesterday, but it's gonna get shuffled to today after school.

[Glass]

WTF nacho?
I actually don't believe his claim because when you are l-1 you don't just sit around ad cop when there are multiple people willing to hammer. Not confident enough to hammer, but why wait so long to claim?
UNVOTE: my vote is clearly in the wrong place though.

[Glass]

And I couldn't help but notice that nacho thinks that panda-thil is the most likely scumteam but is voting hero.

[Nachomamma8]

@Tars:
I was having trouble reading you, and it didn't seem like you were going to be replaced.

@Voided:
My problem with it is that you said that you were going to read the game to see if what you thought as a neutral observer matched up with what you thought as an actual participant. Then, when you were asked what you thought as a neutral observer, you didn't remember.

@Glass: People that are off my wagon are experienced enough to know not to hammer on a whim, so I didn't feel that claiming was necessary. But, I thought I had a bit more time to work with than 4 days.

And I couldn't help but notice that nacho thinks that panda-thil is the most likely scumteam but is voting hero.

>.>
Please read my #384 more closely. I was responding to Grey's question where he asked me the most likely scumteam if hero was town.

[pandabear]

hmm I don't get the late claim either...anybody could have quickhammered you without you outing a confirmed townie, what's with that?

Also, do we typically see if there's a counter claim or do mafias usually not do that in forum format? I've been playing a lot of IRL chat mafia and that's the case usually for scums to do but I wasn't sure here.

If not, then we should hurry up and lynch someone else.

@glass I thought he was really scummy because given his posts after Hero's analysis, Nacho has been noticeably different in the way he responds/posts. It just felt like he was surfacing by trying to answer whatever questions he can without really defending himself too hard. But I guess it all doesn't matter if he's actual cop.

unvote

[pandabear]

@Nacho: Oh, never mind, just saw your response to glass

[Herodotus]

Also, do we typically see if there's a counter claim or do mafias usually not do that in forum format? I've been playing a lot of IRL chat mafia and that's the case usually for scums to do but I wasn't sure here.

I don't understand anything after the first question...

It is typical to wait for a counter-claim in mafia games. But I think Nacho8 is mostly fakeclaiming to draw out a counterclaim from a real cop (if one exists). So I'd like to see if we can lynch him without anyone counterclaiming so that the cop can stay hidden (if one exists).

1. By his own claims, he was a cop who DIDN'T investigate me, and said

Herod is a very good player who I know is scum

There's no way that a cop says they "know" someone is scum on day 2 without a result on that person.

2. If Nacho8 did have an innocent result on Tarson, there is no way anyone could have figured that out from his posts if he had died. In fact, Tarson was one of two people whom Nacho8 voted today.

People that are off my wagon are experienced

does not appease. I nearly hammered you more than once.

I'd vote Nacho to L-1 again, but I want to hear his answers first.

(Incidentally, that means he is probably a goon, not a roleblocker. If he was a roleblocker and was counterclaimed, his partner could neither kill nor roleblock the cop who counterclaimed him.)

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided:
My problem with it is that you said that you were going to read the game to see if what you thought as a neutral observer matched up with what you thought as an actual participant. Then, when you were asked what you thought as a neutral observer, you didn't remember.

I was hoping that, having watched the game since page 5, I would've been able to collect my thoughts enough to give you an initial read of everyone, and then I realized that I could not recall what I HAD thought as I read through it (though, the fact I was watching 2-4 other games and playing 2 others didn't help there), only what little bits I did remember (my two townreads I gave).

I'm not quite sure what I make of the claim right now (what I had hoped would've been ample time to sit down, re-read, and give you my thoughts has dwindled down to an amount less than desireable. I will still give the re-read and thoughts as promised (most likely as a string of posts going over what I think of posts in each page, rather than ISO-ing each of you), though. An

unvote

is still in order, however.

[GreyICE]

Great, a cop claim, the last resort of every scum in trouble.

I don't love your answers, but town cop? LOLNO

[Glass]

Sorry, I misread that post.

[Voidedmafia]

Page 1, nothing overly suspicious, though that could just be because I general disregard things said in RVS because they usually are worthless in regards to getting info.

Page 2:
Post #48 is from KoH, I think it was one of the posts that incurred some suspicion on him, mainly with the "At least we got the ball rolling line. For me, I take it as a simple comment as to the fact that you all (speaking from the point that I hadn't replaced in yet) were coming out of RVS. Nothing else of note here, but I'll add that I live in Central time (GMT -6?).

Page 3 incoming.

[Voidedmafia]

Page 3:
IT'S SO FLUFFY UP THERE!

Post #64 by Snipe is weak, of course, but then, you're still just coing out of RVS into more serious discussion. And I think I can consider the whole "he confirmed last, he's scum!" as a weak scumtell, if it's a tell at all.

Post #65 by Tars is the second post to seriously suspect someone, and again has rather weak reasoning cuz of RVS. Also the first serious vote of the game, as well.

Post #66 by Traveller uses the guise of "you're deflecting off of yourself onto me" for vote justification, but I'm not sure that's what KoH was doing at all. Certainly isn't a town move, though.

Post #68[/ur] by Panda is the first serious case made on anyone with anything worth something. I don't agree with the reply to the 2nd quote, and think that it's still possible to miss a vote if you're not actually looking at that, but the 3rd quote also highlights how KoH has, up to this post, only expressed suspicion onto Traveller, but has never actually explained WHY he's suspicious. That would've earned my vote on him if I were Thil at this point. This also means I disagree with Bri's vote of Panda on the next post.

Post #73 by Panda has some weak reasoning by the whole "I figured you'd unvote" part because they don't NEED to unvote to consider and such. He also goes out on a limb to try and place a BriHarold scumpair, which is never good to do at that point in the game.

Bristep counters Panda with Post #74, at least in regards to the part about unvoting. I suppose if Panda really thought that KoH was scum, it wasn't a bad thing to put him a L-1, but it never hurts to be careful.

Bri further explains why he voted Panda, saying that Panda put soeone at L-1 with a weak case. I don't think it was THAT weak a case, but I could see where Bri is coing from. THe last paragraph is kinda on the fence for me because I don't feel that Panda misrep, but I'm not quite sure on whether or not #73 is forced justification or not.


So, to conclude Page 3: King of Harold would've been voted and been my top suspect, while Panda and Bri would've been given some attention.

[Voidedmafia]

Page 4:
Grey, it probably sounds wrong because it can sound like he's trying to get people off his scumbuddy with a weak case. But, like I said, it's stupid to formulate those kinds of ideas this early. He could have been hoping for an early and easy lynch, which seems more plausible, but I still kinda doubt that.

Panda then says that he thought that whoever hammered would be most suspicious if KoH wasn't scum (though I would've been suspicious of such a hammer regardless of the flip), then admits that he had weak reasoning. However, he did have one good jewel among that, as I pointed out.

In Post #80 from KoH, He is referring to Traveller. Anyways, KoH thought that Traveller was off-putting with the cracks and jokes in the beginning, which first aroused his suspicion, and the FoS was from the OMGUS. He later says that it could've been scummy for him to go after Nacho just out of RVS, but he just skimmed. Now this does sound like weak justification. I did say that he could've honestly just skipped it over, but if he was paying attention to votes, why didn't he pay attention to the vote on him? Then he notes that Traveller is still his suspect, though his reasonings are even weaker than the first ones on page 2.

Post #82 by Nacho is a case against Snipe, and Snipe's first real vote against him. Nacho's reasoning for this is the FoS post which he says has no excuse for, but he also mentions Thil doing something like that with reasoning, or at least a good explanation. While I understand that doing that without good follow-up is not good practice, I still can't see the big deal here, I guess.

Snipe explains the post, saying he didn't have enough reasoning. Tars and Panda challenge that, and Snipe reiterates what he said in 83 here. He also adds that his RVS served no purpose, which is why he unvoted.

Bristep comes along with a post (#88) trying to get people to post. KoH instantly jumps up by voting his top suspicion, Traveller, STILL with nothing going for it--I'd still have my vote on him at this point. Thil says that he doesn't feel like he has enough to vote, and then Tars tells Thil that the point here was to get people to communicate under the threat that they'd be lynched, which I do approve of in circumstances such a those. Thil later explained why he was so hesitant because of a game he played earlier, but still votes for Traveller.

Post #93 from Traveller announces that he'll drop the pretense, though the pretense is still there in the post. He also notes that he didn't mean to OMGUS KoH, but also says that KoH is rather aggressive, which I can see.

Panda then votes Nacho because he's also been aggressive. I suppose because Nacho's been more aggressive through interrogation?