The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Final Destination]

Deadline is May 1st.

If the hammer is dropped ANYWHERE NEAR BEFORE THEN they become lynch fodder. There is no reason to rush this day without FES' input and Mastermate not even on the same page.

I don't care who you think is scum out of FD/Balam, if you're town you will let this play out longer.

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

how was he a dick in that game?

hell WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU USING MARATHON AS META???

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

Deadline is May 1st.

If the hammer is dropped ANYWHERE NEAR BEFORE THEN they become lynch fodder. There is no reason to rush this day without FES' input and Mastermate not even on the same page.

I don't care who you think is scum out of FD/Balam, if you're town you will let this play out longer.

^stall tactic

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

@ Copper
As impressively LONG as that post is, it doesn't get at the heart of the real issue. Yes, I previously believed FD to be town and YFC to be scum. But that's not the point. The point is that because of the way the roles work, FD is less believable, since I can't really see Balam-scum risking his life to save YFC-scum when it wasn't lylo. The point is also that if FD flips town, we know TWO SCUM and we have few others to choose the third from. If Balam flips town, we can only be sure of ONE SCUM (FD).

@ FD
Thanks for erasing all my suspicions. If you were town, you'd be smart enough to see that your death will benefit us greatly by showing us two scum. Instead you rage, because you mainly don't want to die. That is your primary motivation, so you are scum.

[Final Destination]

Daspot, stalling for what/

FES and Mastermate haven't even fully commented on everything that's happened. Why are you rushing this day?


Yos is scum from your point of view right? How does he make MORE sense as scum with me, then scum with Balam?

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

Daspot, stalling for what/

FES and Mastermate haven't even fully commented on everything that's happened. Why are you rushing this day?


Yos is scum from your point of view right? How does he make MORE sense as scum with me, then scum with Balam?

Time, bro. Time.
You can see the writing on the wall, and delaying this can only make us reconsider what would be a deadly decision to your team.
If you flip scum, Yos is clear, and we were wrong. We're willing to admit that.

[Final Destination]

Daspot there's no reason for my death to show us "two scums" when they can be lynched right here today. I never give up as town and rollover, because I find myself too valuable for town to die like this ESPECIALLY WHEN IM A FUCKING COP.

The fact that Balam is saying "yeah go ahead and lynch me" is just blatant reverse psychology. As a real town role cop, he'd fight for my lynch so hard because it would "clear" himself and Yos.

INstead he's scum that doesn't want to look like his motivation is to survive

so he's posting the opposite way.

If you can't see through this then you are not good enough of a player to be in this game thread. You had it, you were almost there, you had the CORRECT reads, but then you went and said "well IF FD IS SCUMZ then..." and you're lynching me just because my town flip will out two scum.

A Policy lynch for information instead of a LYNCH on who you think is scum.

[Final Destination]

Daspot, stalling for what/

FES and Mastermate haven't even fully commented on everything that's happened. Why are you rushing this day?


Yos is scum from your point of view right? How does he make MORE sense as scum with me, then scum with Balam?

Time, bro. Time.
You can see the writing on the wall, and delaying this can only make us reconsider what would be a deadly decision to your team.
If you flip scum, Yos is clear, and we were wrong. We're willing to admit that.

You are WRONG right now. Do you not see the TOWN motivation in wanting everyone's OPINIONS on the lynch and claims of the day before heading into LyLo the next day? Because if you lynch me it IS going to be LyLo. And you will have FES (who you thought to be scum when you knew I was town), and Mastermate (cleared by me but maybe he'll die over night since he's cop cleared) without having made any input on this situation.


Daspot, I cleared you N1. Look at my posts and tell me I haven't known you were town this whole time.

DANA. Me. Fate. Cleared you as town. Remember last time I Was scum? I got you lynched for kicks, because

it is so easy because your posts are so bad.

LOOK AT THIS GAME AGAIN. Who ahs been trying to go for your easy lynch? YOSFUCKINGCAYKE. They are SCUM. They smell MISLYNCH on you and pushed it.

Now, seriously, wake up before you single-handedly cost town this game.

[Final Destination]

Apparently I have thirty minutes to live, since I re-read last page and PC supports the hammer as well.

Walp.

I guess it's time.

[Profane Confusion]

Actually, I'd really like an answer from the people I called out in my last post before any kind of a hammer is dropped.

- Incog

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

We're lynching FD at last, thank God Almighty, FD at last.

A Yos-Balam scum team doesn't make sense to us. They can't realistically expect to claim Jailkeeper and Rolecop and not cause obvious balance problems.

Spot is definitely town.

The fact that Balam is saying "yeah go ahead and lynch me" is just blatant reverse psychology. As a real town role cop, he'd fight for my lynch so hard because it would "clear" himself and Yos.

When did Balam say this?

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

I'm not used to Fate throwing so much AtE my way. Especially since he usually hates my guts. I'm still not 100% sure what's going on here, but hammering probably shouldn't happen yet.

unvote

The thing is, Fate, I KNOW you have known I'm town this whole game. And you also know how easy a mislynch I am. I could definitely see you doing all that just to set up a claim in the future. Of course you would know I'm town if you were scum. Now quit yelling about how I was right and now I'm wrong. I'll figure that out myself if that's the case.

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

@ Profane
Well, there are only 4 people that COULD be FD's scumpal now: Copper, you, Mastermate, and Lord Fonzi.
Do you see any reason to eliminate the three other than yourself?

[Profane Confusion]

Well yeah.

I don't think Final Destination would claim an innocent read on a buddy especially the one he actually highlighted in green (that would be Mastermate/The Unicorns).

Lord Fonzi has been pushing for an FD lynch for such a long time when other possibilities have existed; I can't see why they would have felt bussing was the only plausible play at that point.

Copper's possible, but I don't know if they would still continue to take up the position they're taking up against Balam now if they were scum. Bussing FD would be the more logical move, I think.

And that's it. A lot of it is WIFOM, but hey, that's the way the game of Mafia works.

- Incog

[Final Destination]

Et tu Profanete?

[Profane Confusion]

Et tu Profanete?

I'm putting forth reasons for why I'm really not buying you as scum. You don't seem to have any buddies.

- Incog

[Balam]

(Equinox)

You don't seem to have any buddies.

Sure they do!



You three make a good team.

[Final Destination]

This should clear some things up Profane, because Balam is telling the truth about his claim. Still, I thought him to be a scum role-cop so I went for it.

I am a Vanilla Townie. I have no abilities.

Reasons for this gambit:
-We thought we had enough town support to get Balam lynched over us, in that enough people thought us town to lynch Balam over us in a 1v1.
-I'm Fate, I gambit as TOWN like I breathe, as YosScum says, and it wouldn't be a Fate hydra without one. We'd been planning this fake-cop claim for awhile, because we figured a fake-guillty would be needed to take down the behemoth that is Copper scum.
-Since we think Balam to be a scum role-cop, counter-claiming him meant

all three scumbags would know we were lying as town and that our lynch would not implicate Balam. Scum would show no fear in lynching me over Balam today, and that would be apparent in the day interactions

these day interactions I'll analyze.

Why we thought Balam scum enough to Counter-claim

AIM.

One night on AIM RayFrost messaged me. I don't remember how the conversation started, but it devolved into ranting about my playstyle and my drunk posting and how stupid and unproductive it was. He was pretty emotionally upset, and it turned into him insulting my competence and ability to play mafia, as in "your reads are always shit and when you're right you're lucky." This set me off, I told him to go fuck off, who was HE to come onto AIM, waste my time, and tell ME how to play and insult my style?

He realized he stepped over the line too far, and apologized and said it was all because he was really upset at our drunk posting. This was pushing the boundaries of site rules a bit, because it was clear he was implying that he was pissed at my drunk posting in THIS GAME, but nonetheless my read on Balam was altered. I explained to him the town motivations behind when I drunk post, and he agreed to disagree with my methods.


In thread I tried to play it off as a gambit, aka "oh I was just trolling Balam to get reactions, he's town" when I really had a newfound town read on him due to the AIM posting.

Now, Balam backed off as well and said "FD's drunk postnig is town posting." Which I believe was due to my AIM conversation about MD theory and drunkposting.

So when AGar put us back at L-1, and RayFrost had apparently approved of that vote on us, the set me and AGM off. We were determined to think that Ray was scum manipulating us in AIM instead of using the discussion we had (me explaining why I drunk post as town) to solidfy their town read on us.

Then they say us soft-claiming, as a scum role-cop. YEAH we were softclaiming in an attempt to draw the NK, just like I pointed out earlier (WIFOM to draw the NK by saying we wanted to avoid it). They smelled Fate fake-claim gambit, and decided to try and get us lynched off "softfakeclaiming as a VT" when it isn't really scummy at all to softclaim as a VT to draw a kill.

Analysis of reactions to our gambit, since the scum know we're lying:

Yos:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/posting. ... 13#preview

As expected, scum would comb through our posts knowing our cop claim was fake. LOOKING for any holes in it play wise or crumb wise. Yos is the first to jump on this, as well as posts like these:

I have a good feeling about the way this is going.

Anyway.

FACT 1: Ether Balam or FD now must be lying scum. Their claims obviously contradict. We are now going to be lynching one or the other of them today, and if that one flips town, we lynch the other one.

FACT 2: Between the two of them, FD clearly has a lot more to gain from a fakeclaim. Heading towards a deadline, we were basically deadlocked between a wagon on me and a wagon on Fate. With Balam mostly confirming my claim, FD was almost certain to be lynched if he did nothing. Assuming Fate-scum, he would have to do something drastic at that point in order to not lose. If he could at least bring down a town power role before he goes, his scumteam would be in a much stronger position.

On the other hand, I don't see any reason for Balam to fakeclaim there. It's also consistant with the way he was demanding I claim or die on the spot, hestiated when I hinted I was a power role, and then dropped it completly when I claimed jailkeeper.

At this point, Fate-scum seems far more likely then Balam-scum. I don't understand what kind of crazy gambit Balam would have to be running for a fake-claim here to make sense. On the other hand, a desperate fakeclaim is just what I'd expect out of a cornered Fate; it's pretty much his trademark move.

He's comfortable putting us in a 1v1 with his buddy, because he knows we won't flip town Cop. He shows no fear going all out to get us lynched as I would expect scum to at this point. He ignores his meta of me as a Gambit-extraordinaire as TOWN, since my scum meta contains not even 5% as many gambits.

Lol.

Balam's claim, if uncountered, meant I was not going to get lynched today. You will admit that, right?

If I was not going to be lynched today, there's a 95% chance that Fate was. He was in trouble anyway even before Balam claimed, his only hope of survival was to get me lynched instead of him since the odds of a third wagon coming up out of nowhere this close to deadline is quite low.

Fate knew this. He had to do something drastic, some kind of fakeclaim, or die.

But notice that Balam was speculating a scum jailkeeper? He was LEAVING THE OPTION TO BUS YOS OPEN still. Their claims are clearly meant to have one live as confirmed when the other flips scum.

Also notice this:

Daspot was roleblocked N2, we know this to be true.

Why in the bloody fuck would scum roleblock Daspot? Mislynch fodder like him, they WANTED to keep him on lock down. So, N1 Balam ACTUALLY role-copped Daspot (not Yos his own buddy), and got tracker.
N2

YosCayke roleblocks the town tracker.

These events line up real well, and solidifies the pairing even more in our minds.

That's the first buddy, the SECOND buddy is harder to spot. But, I'm afraid we believe its Copper (sorry man, I wish we could ride the bustrain with you but you slipped):

I, personally, have never seen a scum Jailkeeper. I have heard of a scum Role Cop, however.

YosCayke, is there any reason you're choosing to assume that Balam is on the up and up from his results? Did you already answer this somewhere in this mess of the past few pages?

I feel like we can plan this lynch out a little better. There's been a bit too much spam and not quite enough rational discussion here. We have three supposed power roles, all, of course, claiming to be town aligned.

A Tracker, Role Cop, and a Jailkeeper, right?

Not implausible by any stretch of the imagination. I'm still having trouble understanding exactly what happened between DaSpot and YosCayke though. YosCayke locked up DaSpot during both previous nights? Otherwise, FES, will you confirm DaSpot's allegation?

I find it nigh impossible and implausible that Copper FORGOT we were a claimed cop at this juncture. It was the big she-bang, it was the 1v1 of the day, it was the MAIN EVENT as it were. He noticed Daspot's tracker claim, but not our cop claim?

Unlikely.

What did happen, is that he knows we are fakeclaming and not a real cop, as his role-cop buddy got that result on us (probably crumbed it one of their first posts or something), and did not factor our role into the set-up.

There you have it. The full story. The bare truth. The Wall of Gambit as it were. Take it as you will, but realize that lynching us and us flipping Vanilla Townie will NOT "confirm" two scum for LyLo tomorrow. That is why I have been so reluctant to die today.

[AGM Approves that this post will likely determine the Fate of this game]

[Profane Confusion]

What the fuck?

- Incog

[Profane Confusion]

You say it was your choice to gambit but AGM was the one who laid down the Cop claim. Can you explain that part?

[Final Destination]

Simple.

I really DID have to write a paper, so we used that to our advantage.

Given my reputation if

AGM

made a fake-claim gambit rather than me, it would be infinitely more likely to be believed.

We discussed that on AIM before I logged off and he made the claim. I pointed out the fake-crumbs and the fake-innocents that made the most sense, and then I let him write the post and the claim.

[Final Destination]

[AGM]

Hehehahaha. All according to PLAN, PC. All according to plan.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

That was too long. I read it anyway.

You're still dead scum walking. Nice try, though. A+ for effort.

This was pushing the boundaries of site rules a bit, because it was clear he was implying that he was pissed at my drunk posting in THIS GAME, but nonetheless my read on Balam was altered.

Final Destination, if this AIM conversation with RayFrost occurred after your drunkposting in this game, you should be pushing for our modkill, not just our lynch, because that is a clear case of using out-of-game influence.

[Profane Confusion]

I don't really know what to say about this because if what you've written is true it seems like it went so far as to cross the game rules (RayFrost supposedly talking about the game with you outside of the thread).

- Incog

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

.....

i am so close to replacing...