Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

[drmyshottyizsik]

OMGUS...

[h3ll0]

18

out of 27 posts he mentions me. 2/3 of his posts mention me, and he only mentions ANY other player less than 1/3 of the time. He's got some serious tunneling issues. But that's not really a big deal.

Not sure what's the point of you saying this if you think "that's not really a big deal".

He asks me to claim when I'm at L-2... but when Zd actually makes it to L-1 he doesn't bother to ask for a claim. Instead he throws out some random speculation that maybe Zd and I are the scumteam? As evidenced above, he never once mentioned Zd's play or any suspicions of him. Then all the sudden Zd and I are the scum team? If it turns out I'm right and Zd does flip scum, he's got his foot further in the door against me. Though it's worth noting that he accuses me of bussing Zd... for 10 days... when I led the wagon against him. I guess that's possible, but it'd be the worst bus in the history of mafia probably.

I'm not sure if this is a scumtell at all. If drmyshottyizsik is mafia, he would know if Zdenek is town or mafia to begin with, making your hypothetical situtation only possible if he is town.

His recently flipy-flopy on chkflip and related. He comments that we are blowing it out of proportion, but then he says he'd hammer chkflip if he doesn't post more. Didn't he chastise me for saying that I'd be willing to lynch a lurker?

Note: this is the second time that a wagon has reached L-1 and he has all of the sudden decided that he would vote for that person. As mentioned above, when Zd was at L-1, he came out of no where with the "Workdawg/Zd scumteam". Now alnpka put chkflip at L-1 and all of the sudden shotty is willing to hammer him if his play doesn't pick up. It's might suspicious if you ask me.

That's true, drmyshottyizsik, please respond to this (other than the OMGUS which isn't a scumtell, if you ask me).

[Workdawg]

And another typical response from shotty... another post with zero content.

Not sure what's the point of you saying this if you think "that's not really a big deal".

I just meant that the analysis is not a "big deal" in my overall case against him. The other points that I brought up are the ones that are most important, IMO.

[Antihero]

Vote Count #19

chkflip - 2 (h3ll0, alnkpa)
drmyshottyizsik - 1 (Workdawg)
Workdawg - 2 (drmyshottyizsik, chkflip)

Not Voting: alnkpa, Bulvious, Kard

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch. Deadline is May 9th.

[Bulvious]

"It's not a big deal" =/= "It's not a deal"

Aka, it's still something to note.

Also, Shotty, your defense sucks. (Aka it doesn't exist thus far.)

[chkflip]

You guys should read through the Kard slot. Not just Kard, but the whole slot; you might be surprised to notice that, in every person in that slot, both that person AND WD have been "null/town" without a single discrepency the whole time no matter the situation.

This doesn't sit well with me. Super sorry my case post hasn't come to fruition yet, like I've said before uni has three weeks until it's out and I've got a lot of final projects etc. I implore everyone re-read the Kard slot and even the WD slot.

[Workdawg]

So, let me get this straight...

You vote for me, then when you have time to post something up, it's about how Kard's slot is scummy rather than how I'm scummy?

[chkflip]

I've been slowly and surely (and rather consistently) repeating my thoughts on this game's scumteam.

I thoroughly enjoy this soft-defense of your partner, however.

For the record, it doesn't appear as if you've actually refuted anything brought against you; instead, you decide to do things like this and try to deflect, strawmanning, chainsaw, etc. Who are your top two scumspects and why?

[Workdawg]

I must have missed the part where you "brought something against me." Is it the that Fatso/Kard has given me a null/town read, and I felt the same about him? Cause you should probably lump Bulvious and startransmission into the scum-team as well if that's the case.

You've had the chance to post twice and you still can't post any actual reasons that I am scum NOR have you responded to the case brought against you. So what's going on?

As for who my top suspects are right now... I think it's pretty clear based on my last handful of posts. I've raised cases against both you and shotty, and neither of you has bothered to reply with any sort of real defense against them.

[Antihero]

thunderwielder replaces Kard. Welcome!

[Workdawg]

Welcome thunderwielder!

[thunderwielder]

Hey guys!
There's been a lot of replacing in this game, but I'm here to stick it out.
I work mostly during the days, so my post frequency will probably be at night.
I'm -5 hours away from the Middle time thing (live in Ontario) just so you know when I'll probably be doing most of my posting.
I'm currently reading through the thread, but maybe give me a couple of days for me to formulate my thoughts.
I'm still on Day one, when the topic of lynching Zd hasn't even come up yet, so I've got a lot to work through. Also, I have no idea what Kard has said yet. I've only seen Fatso. I think page 9 is where I stopped reading last night.
But I'm looking forward to playing with you all and I'll post my thoughts on the game as soon as I can!
Cheers!

[Workdawg]

Just out of curiousity, thunder, what's your experience with mafia?

[thunderwielder]

This is my first game. I've read through a lot of games and am following a couple right now out of interest. Also, my roommate has been playing for a while, so he has shown me the ropes a little bit, and I've been following his progress on a game that he is playing outside of here and on a game that he's doing here.

[h3ll0]

You guys should read through the Kard slot. Not just Kard, but the whole slot; you might be surprised to notice that, in every person in that slot, both that person AND WD have been "null/town" without a single discrepency the whole time no matter the situation.

This doesn't sit well with me. Super sorry my case post hasn't come to fruition yet, like I've said before uni has three weeks until it's out and I've got a lot of final projects etc. I implore everyone re-read the Kard slot and even the WD slot.

I agree with you that Fatso/Kard/thunderwielder is pretty scummy. But I don't think we should start to hunt in scumteam until at least one of the scum has been caught and lynched. I'm not really seeing the connection between thunderwielder and Workdawg at the moment to be honest.

[thunderwielder]

Okay, I'm finished reading through the thread, and I maybe should go back and skim through it again, but I've taken notes and I've narrowed things down to the three people who I'm going to focus on.

I've sort of narrowed it down through process of elimination, based upon my gut and why I think people are acting the way they are.

Al - He's been here for the whole time (not subbing out), and in my opinion he seems town. Even though he’s taken a long time in between posts, and his posts are pretty short, that can be because of the language barrier and the time difference. At least that’s what my gut is telling me to attribute it to.

Workdawg – Zd was clearly an idiot (sorry Zd) in the way that he was playing the game, hardly giving out any information, posting short sentences and assuming everyone would know what he was talking about and was unable to read it as suspicious. I’m interested to hear Chkflip’s case on him, which he still has yet to post, because I personally can’t see much need for a case. All of his logic has been seemingly okay, in what I remember from reading the thread, and I haven’t had any reason to suspect him. Also, based upon the fact that he subbed in for SaraFish, who I considered to be very noobtown, lacking in the subtly necessary to play at this level of game, I’m pretty sure he’s town.

Shotty – Shotty seems to be tunnelling pretty hard right now and responds very angrily to lots and lots of things. He subbed in for BananaStickers, who I had no read on because she didn’t post ever, but he’s voting and replies seem too irrational and sporadic to be considered Mafia. If it is a ploy, by being loud and obnoxious, it is working on me because I think he’s just a town. I don’t feel Mafia members would act the way he’s been acting, but I could be wrong.

And Star is dead and Zd is dead, so they are off the list.

SO, that leaves me with
In no particular order.
First) Bulvious
After looking through a couple other games with people from this forum in it, I've come to realize that I can't base my conclusions on people's "meta" I think it's called. Which is their previous games and the style in which they play that game, right? (Someone please correct me if I've gotten the word/term wrong)
In the last game, where you were a cop, you talked a lot and in this game you talk a lot. I'm very glad that you are committed to the game, and you appear to know what you’re doing.
My issue with you is how hard you’ve been gunning for Al. Maybe it’s because I’m getting a town read on him, and you’re not, and that’s what’s propelling my suspicions on you.
I think it’s post 313 (this was one of the only post numbers I’ve written down—halfway through reading I thought to myself “Gee, I should really start writing notes!”) but you have a post that is written with emotion and continues to berate Al for not scumhunting enough. Or at least not writing enough information. I guess I’m chalking this up to Al’s language (I’m not harping on it, Al, I just think that there is a distinct difference between first and second languages). It just seems that you expound a lot of energy on Al for not a lot of payoff.
There’s also Star’s case against you. He calls you on wagon jumping, which you defend, and there is hardly more said on the matter. But I think he might have been on to something, in terms of you calling on everyone around you and not putting your foot down on them—instead you settle your attentions on someone who I see to be a newbie.
It is also something to consider, that Star is dead now. It is very very convenient that his last vote was on h3llo and not on you, but there was a case on you before, and he had you in his sights before, so maybe eliminating him is a way to stop him from honing in again.

Two) h3ll0
I don’t have much to back this up other than my gut instinct. I don’t know why, but your posts have struck me as odd. Maybe it’s just because you’re not posting nearly as frequently or as invested as you were in the other game that I reviewed (because you’re working, you say). Bulvious has maintained his “meta” so to speak, and you are seeming to deviate from it.
It’s also curious to me that, before I’ve even posted my thoughts or suspicions about the game, you have thrown me into the Fatso/Kard slot of suspicious behaviour. Well, it’s not curious, I understand if you have your motivations from before. This is not a OMGUS thing. Reading through the posts before, I think I understand Fatso and Kard’s action. I think Fatso was new and excited and Kard didn’t really contribute, but he clearly waited all he could until casting the vote against Zd.
Also, Star has cast his vote on you and died. Again, it could be taken in two ways. Mafia are trying to frame you, or you are trying to make us think the Mafia is framing you. Or maybe the Mafia didn’t even take that into account. I know this is WIFOM, but it is something to think about. Based on my read from what you’ve said, my gut says you’d be more likely to kill Star and frame the others. I really have no basis for this interpretation other than my reading of you or how you’ve played this. I’ve just finished reading the entire 21 pages, so my memory of time and places of who said what is a little vague. Even so, that’s what I think and hopefully this will get this thread back on the road and back into a discussion. Because since I got accepted, nothing’s really been happening.

And Three)Chkflip
Chkflip strikes me as a little bit of an oddity. I’m not saying you’re a weirdo, Chk, I just don’t think your actions make a lot of sense.
You have been brought up to L -1, and yet you haven’t managed to post your case yet. You’re also playing in a lot of other games right now, but I’d think if your head was this close to the chopping block, you’d devote a little bit more attention to this game. This stalling tactic seems to me as if you know people are on to you, and if you can hold them off until closer to the deadline, and then quickly direct your attention towards Workdawg, you might live until the next night.
I also have to look at Lynchking, whom Chkflip replaced. I’m not aware of his real life circumstances, but to me, out of everyone who has dropped out thus far (except Fatso, hopefully he’s feeling better), Lynchking seemed the most eager to remain in this game. The others kind of dwindled into obscurity, but Lynchking seemed like he wanted to stay in the game and play, but maybe he was just too busy.
I’m not sure where his quote comes in but he’s says something like “I’ll be replaced if you guys really want me to”. Maybe he’s just bummed not to be able to play, but out of everyone who left, he seems like he has the most desire to stay and play. This suggests Mafia to me, because the probability of being cast as Mafia is much lower than being cast as a Townie. I know if I was Mafia on day one, but had a lot of things to do, I would stay in it as long as I possibly could, because as a newbie, it’s exciting. It is, after all, what the game is called.

Generally speaking, for me, I suspect those who have remained totally in the game without subbing out more than the ones who have subbed in. But Lynchking gives me reason to pause.
Also, through checking other games (like the one Bulvious and h3llo came from), there were lots of sub-outs, but only one of the mafia members subbed out, not both of them. So if there is a sub-in for Mafia, my finger of suspicion lies on Chkflip.
Previously, when Fatso was here, he put up a whole list which outlined all the flaws in Fatso’s arguments, but seemed more explanatory and helpful rather than accusatory. It seemed to say, “everyone, Fatso’s a newb”, whereas he’s continued to focus his attention on this slot. I’ll wait to hear his case on Workdawg, but right now Chkflip is leaning scum to me.

So that’s my brief analysis of the game so far. Hopefully this sparks conversation. Anyone who has any issues with what I’ve said, let me know. As for issues pertaining to Fatso and Kard, I’ll try to answer for them—since they’re in my slot. I have to take responsibility for their actions. But I don’t think they’ve voted yet today (well, Kard), so I’m glad to be entering day Two with a fresh start and outlook.

I apologize for the wall, as I know they are sometimes troublesome to read, but I encourage everyone to please do so. I wanted to make this first post as comprehensive as possible, in terms of being candid with everyone on where I stand and why.

[h3ll0]

Al - He's been here for the whole time (not subbing out), and in my opinion he seems town. Even though he’s taken a long time in between posts, and his posts are pretty short, that can be because of the language barrier and the time difference. At least that’s what my gut is telling me to attribute it to.

Really? I'm not seeing any (linguistic) problems with his posts. As a matter of fact, time difference is not a valid excuse for him, as I have seen him online more than once since Bulvious and my most recent accusation to him, yet he has not been responding. Time difference may excuse him from replying immediately, but not from avoiding the issue altogether via lurking.

Shotty – Shotty seems to be tunnelling pretty hard right now and responds very angrily to lots and lots of things. He subbed in for BananaStickers, who I had no read on because she didn’t post ever, but he’s voting and replies seem too irrational and sporadic to be considered Mafia. If it is a ploy, by being loud and obnoxious, it is working on me because I think he’s just a town. I don’t feel Mafia members would act the way he’s been acting, but I could be wrong.

And Star is dead and Zd is dead, so they are off the list.

SO, that leaves me with
In no particular order.
First) Bulvious
After looking through a couple other games with people from this forum in it, I've come to realize that I can't base my conclusions on people's "meta" I think it's called. Which is their previous games and the style in which they play that game, right? (Someone please correct me if I've gotten the word/term wrong)
In the last game, where you were a cop, you talked a lot and in this game you talk a lot. I'm very glad that you are committed to the game, and you appear to know what you’re doing.
My issue with you is how hard you’ve been gunning for Al. Maybe it’s because I’m getting a town read on him, and you’re not, and that’s what’s propelling my suspicions on you.
I think it’s post 313 (this was one of the only post numbers I’ve written down—halfway through reading I thought to myself “Gee, I should really start writing notes!”) but you have a post that is written with emotion and continues to berate Al for not scumhunting enough. Or at least not writing enough information. I guess I’m chalking this up to Al’s language (I’m not harping on it, Al, I just think that there is a distinct difference between first and second languages). It just seems that you expound a lot of energy on Al for not a lot of payoff.
There’s also Star’s case against you. He calls you on wagon jumping, which you defend, and there is hardly more said on the matter. But I think he might have been on to something, in terms of you calling on everyone around you and not putting your foot down on them—instead you settle your attentions on someone who I see to be a newbie.
It is also something to consider, that Star is dead now. It is very very convenient that his last vote was on h3llo and not on you, but there was a case on you before, and he had you in his sights before, so maybe eliminating him is a way to stop him from honing in again.

Two) h3ll0
I don’t have much to back this up other than my gut instinct. I don’t know why, but your posts have struck me as odd. Maybe it’s just because you’re not posting nearly as frequently or as invested as you were in the other game that I reviewed (because you’re working, you say). Bulvious has maintained his “meta” so to speak, and you are seeming to deviate from it.

If you realised, my activity in that game also dipped after Day 1.

It’s also curious to me that, before I’ve even posted my thoughts or suspicions about the game, you have thrown me into the Fatso/Kard slot of suspicious behaviour. Well, it’s not curious, I understand if you have your motivations from before. This is not a OMGUS thing. Reading through the posts before, I think I understand Fatso and Kard’s action. I think Fatso was new and excited and Kard didn’t really contribute, but he clearly waited all he could until casting the vote against Zd.

You replaced into the Fatso/Kard slot. Being replaced/a replacement does not invalidate the accusations on you caused by your predecessor. In addition to Fatso's fence-sitting and Kard's lack of contribution (a bit of pot calling kettle here, I know), the fact that both of them replaced out after been accused of being scummy does not help your position. You obviously, know that though, judging from your last paragraph.

Also, Star has cast his vote on you and died. Again, it could be taken in two ways. Mafia are trying to frame you, or you are trying to make us think the Mafia is framing you. Or maybe the Mafia didn’t even take that into account. I know this is WIFOM, but it is something to think about. Based on my read from what you’ve said, my gut says you’d be more likely to kill Star and frame the others. I really have no basis for this interpretation other than my reading of you or how you’ve played this. I’ve just finished reading the entire 21 pages, so my memory of time and places of who said what is a little vague. Even so, that’s what I think and hopefully this will get this thread back on the road and back into a discussion. Because since I got accepted, nothing’s really been happening.

If anything, StarTransmission's NK will result in me getting suspected as he was last voting me.

And Three)Chkflip
Chkflip strikes me as a little bit of an oddity. I’m not saying you’re a weirdo, Chk, I just don’t think your actions make a lot of sense.
You have been brought up to L -1, and yet you haven’t managed to post your case yet. You’re also playing in a lot of other games right now, but I’d think if your head was this close to the chopping block, you’d devote a little bit more attention to this game. This stalling tactic seems to me as if you know people are on to you, and if you can hold them off until closer to the deadline, and then quickly direct your attention towards Workdawg, you might live until the next night.

I sort of agree with this. Would like Chkflip to post his case as promised ASAP though.

[h3ll0]

Whoops, pressed the wrong (Submit instead of Preview) button.

Al - He's been here for the whole time (not subbing out), and in my opinion he seems town. Even though he’s taken a long time in between posts, and his posts are pretty short, that can be because of the language barrier and the time difference. At least that’s what my gut is telling me to attribute it to.

Really? I'm not seeing any (linguistic) problems with his posts. As a matter of fact, time difference is not a valid excuse for him, as I have seen him online more than once since Bulvious and my most recent accusation to him, yet he has not been responding. Time difference may excuse him from replying immediately, but not from avoiding the issue altogether via lurking.

Two) h3ll0
I don’t have much to back this up other than my gut instinct. I don’t know why, but your posts have struck me as odd. Maybe it’s just because you’re not posting nearly as frequently or as invested as you were in the other game that I reviewed (because you’re working, you say). Bulvious has maintained his “meta” so to speak, and you are seeming to deviate from it.

If you realised, my activity in that game also dipped after Day 1.

It’s also curious to me that, before I’ve even posted my thoughts or suspicions about the game, you have thrown me into the Fatso/Kard slot of suspicious behaviour. Well, it’s not curious, I understand if you have your motivations from before. This is not a OMGUS thing. Reading through the posts before, I think I understand Fatso and Kard’s action. I think Fatso was new and excited and Kard didn’t really contribute, but he clearly waited all he could until casting the vote against Zd.

You replaced into the Fatso/Kard slot. Being replaced/a replacement does not invalidate the accusations on you caused by your predecessor. In addition to Fatso's fence-sitting and Kard's lack of contribution (a bit of pot calling kettle here, I know), the fact that both of them replaced out after been accused of being scummy does not help your position. You obviously, know that though, judging from your last paragraph.

Also, Star has cast his vote on you and died. Again, it could be taken in two ways. Mafia are trying to frame you, or you are trying to make us think the Mafia is framing you. Or maybe the Mafia didn’t even take that into account. I know this is WIFOM, but it is something to think about. Based on my read from what you’ve said, my gut says you’d be more likely to kill Star and frame the others. I really have no basis for this interpretation other than my reading of you or how you’ve played this. I’ve just finished reading the entire 21 pages, so my memory of time and places of who said what is a little vague. Even so, that’s what I think and hopefully this will get this thread back on the road and back into a discussion. Because since I got accepted, nothing’s really been happening.

If anything, StarTransmission's NK will result in me getting suspected as he was last voting me.

And Three)Chkflip
Chkflip strikes me as a little bit of an oddity. I’m not saying you’re a weirdo, Chk, I just don’t think your actions make a lot of sense.
You have been brought up to L -1, and yet you haven’t managed to post your case yet. You’re also playing in a lot of other games right now, but I’d think if your head was this close to the chopping block, you’d devote a little bit more attention to this game. This stalling tactic seems to me as if you know people are on to you, and if you can hold them off until closer to the deadline, and then quickly direct your attention towards Workdawg, you might live until the next night.

I sort of agree with this. Would like Chkflip to post his case as promised ASAP though.

[Bulvious]

Thunder wrote:
I think it’s post 313 (this was one of the only post numbers I’ve written down—halfway through reading I thought to myself “Gee, I should really start writing notes!”) but you have a post that is written with emotion and continues to berate Al for not scumhunting enough. Or at least not writing enough information. I guess I’m chalking this up to Al’s language (I’m not harping on it, Al, I just think that there is a distinct difference between first and second languages). It just seems that you expound a lot of energy on Al for not a lot of payoff.

Emotional? Perhaps annoyance. How can you not be annoyed by his horrific play?
I'm seeing little of a language barrier, and a lot of shitty play. I'd understand it if he was posting and I couldn't understand, but he's not posting any information - at all, this remains true.
Additionally, if I were mafia, wouldn't it make more sense to go for what people would figure is a more viable target? Why hone in on someone I'm not getting much from? Perhaps it's that I truly don't like his play and find him to be scum?

There’s also Star’s case against you. He calls you on wagon jumping, which you defend, and there is hardly more said on the matter. But I think he might have been on to something, in terms of you calling on everyone around you and not putting your foot down on them—instead you settle your attentions on someone who I see to be a newbie.

Okay, I don't see where this is scummy if you're in my position and think he's scum though - though I'd be curious to hear why you think he's more noob than scum.

It is also something to consider, that Star is dead now. It is very very convenient that his last vote was on h3llo and not on you, but there was a case on you before, and he had you in his sights before, so maybe eliminating him is a way to stop him from honing in again.

It's plausible, he was the only person to REALLY set their vote in against me. But it also makes just as much sense to say they lynched him because I would look that way. In fact, doesn't it even solidify the idea of a Bulv/H3ll0 scumteam that Star brought up? That he and I were the only two to get his vote and suspicion, that is. That really brings up a variety of points against me. I have no defense other than to say it's not true and it's being made to look that way.

[Bulvious]

I'm also noticing that Chkflip's and Drmyshotty's play are pretty similar of late and both seem to be pushing the Workdawg wagon. Going to look further into their slots.

[Workdawg]

thunder

Thanks for catching up and posting your thoughts thunder, however I think a lot of your reads are a bit misguided.

alnpka's wording is a bit off at time, but I've never had a problem understanding him either. His initial post on D2 made me pretty interested to see if he was going to pick up his game today, but so far he hasn't really. Reviewing his last few posts in ISO and taking into consideration the near completely lack of content posted over the past week, though, I don't know if I'd say he's lurking so much as just not finding anything else interesting enough to really post about. I know I've had that problem. In any case, a language barrier, whether it exists or not, shouldn't excuse mediocre play. If he was more interesting things, even if we can't quite understand it all, it'd be better than not posting as much.

It looks to me like your case against Bulvious can be summed up with "you think alnpka is scum" and "star was right, maybe you are wagon jumping" Neither of which is a significant scum-tell IMO. Even if Bulvious is wagon hopping A LOT, I don't think that'd be enough to put him in my list of candidates.

Your case against h3ll0 is that you have a gut feeling about him. I can't really hold that against you because I've been there... but can you provide some examples of posts that have rubbed you the wrong way, and why? It's easy to just pick a player and say you have a "gut feeling" about them, but that means nothing without any reasoning.

You also mention ST's death during N1 in your case against Bulvious and h3ll0. I don't mind the speculation, but of course it does not strengthen the case at all since there's no way to tie either of them to the kill.

About chkflip, I agree that his play has been severely lacking lately. Your speculation on replacements, etc, is kind of ridiculous though.

----

Honestly, I feel like all your cases are really weak. You don't point out any specific things that indicate scum intent and you do a lot of speculation based on the NK and replacing which are pretty much irrelevant. (again I don't really mind the NK stuff, because it's worth giving a thought to, but the replacement thing stuff is pretty worthless IMO).

But it's at least sparked some conversation.

Deadline is in a week, and if play continues like it has been for the past couple, we are running out of time quickly.
Where do people stand on the current wagons (chkflip, shotty, and myself... in the order posted by our glorious mod).

I think it's pretty obvious that I'd be happy to see either of them lynched. I've posted my cases on both chkflip and shotty, and neither of them has bothered to reply with any significant defense. In fact, in reviewing the past week or so, I'm starting to think they might be a scumpair. (I know hunting in pairs is a moonshot when we don't have confirmation on either of them, but I noticed a few interesting things)

chkflip and shotty over the past week

I call chkflip out for his slip regarding power roles and shotty's only thought on this is "... we are blowing this Chkflip thing out of proportion" (post 477). chkflip's defense is that it's "disgusting" that we called him out for the slip. He doesn't even defend himself other than by presenting a gambler's fallacy trying to justify his comment because "...two PRs is somehow least likely to happen" (post 485).

Once chkflip reaches L-1 (and I unvote to try and prevent scum from getting the chance to hammer him), shotty, all of the sudden, says he's willing to vote him if the deadline hits (2 weeks away, post 497) or he doesn't start posting. As I mentioned in my case against shotty, he's not voiced any suspicion on chkflip up until now. A real quick turn from "we are blowing this out of proportion" to "I would vote for him", and it smells a lot like bussing to me. He's been all but silent since.

chkflip has been checking in pretty regularly but still hasn't managed to reply to the things brought against him nor post his case against me. In his only real post on my "scumminess" (505), he talks more about Fatso/Kard/thunder.

It's curious that they are also voting together now. I wonder if an analysis of the votes thus far would reveal anything. I'll have to take a look and post it up later. That's what I've got so far.

[chkflip]

Really sorry about my play as of late, guys. Just haven't been able to get my head in the game.

CHK's Workdawg Case

- Let's look at the hard fact first. Startransmission was first to note your soft defending nature with the Fatso/Kard/thunder slot (Fatso at the time). Star was the NK. You tunneled on our cop.

- You call Fatso newbtown here and your only interactions with Kard here and here seem off. The first is purely defensive, as if to stifle conversation about the topic. Then, in the second interaction, you congratulate Kard's hammer instead of questioning why it had little to no town-motivation behind it. In a nutshell, it feels like you were coaching that slot and attempting to continue to keep the heat off of it.

- Even more in-depth look into your soft defending and strawmanning for that slot here seems contrived and doesn't actually match what you're saying here too much at all. What was the point in repeating yourself? Chainsaw defending.

- A lot of your posts are fluff. You say the same thing in different ways over and over. I'm not going to link them because it's a fairly good portion of your posts, people can check your ISO for themselves and read the posts carefully to see this. I implore that people do, actually.

- Your WIFOM debate with Bulv here and your defnese to his accusation here don't seem very town-motivated to me. The latter especially reads "No, don't pressure me Bulv" to me pretty hard.

- Your most recent flailing here, here, and here read very scum-motivated as well. The first one: if you're town, why does it matter that I'm asking people to look into a certain player slot? You seem very defensive. Sure, I could've posted this case against you first, but I decided to add some wood to the fire instead. Reactionfish success. The second link: your further flailing and fluffery is no good defense when you could be doing some hardcore "wall post for town cred" motto like you've been doing all game. Enter link three: fluff for your scum partner and of course, as scum, your top two suspects are the top two players that are suspecting you. Who's got OMGUS? You do, scum.

[thunderwielder]

Thanks guys, for your responses. After rereading my posts, yes, you're right, they really aren't that great. When I was writing them, I thought to myself... "What are you doing, this isn't convincing at all." But I decided to post them for hopefully some conversation pieces.

My hesitation with Al really comes from us lynching Zd. I think that's the main reason why I think he's town, or rather should say I'm worried he's town and we're looking into something maybe a little too much.
Zd hardly gave any reasoning behind his positions and stated things in small posts and sentences. I'm just worried that we'll lynch Al too quickly on perhaps the same reasoning (or attribute some of it to that--I know there are other points made) and then come up town and be in a lynch or lose situation. I agree, I wish he would post more. And the fact that you saw him online, h3llo, makes me think you're right. I would like to see him defend himself and take a stance on someone. I'll reread his slot and see if I pick up on the things you guys have been talking about, or if I find adequate information on him to prove him being town (as was my initial read). But I'd rather he proved he was town, because I don't think I should be making his case for him.

But I think my suspicions remain, at least for this day, on Chkflip at the current moment in time. He STILL hasn't responded, while both h3ll0 and Bulvious responded to my accusations, light as they were, within a pretty short amount of time. I'd really like to hear his responses. Especially to this so called case he's been building. It shouldn't be taking him this long, unless there really is not much of a case.

Question: Why can't I use the subbing in and outs as evidence? I know they're not completely concrete, but it makes sense to me that a scum would be more eager to keep playing, whereas a town could just sub out and join a different game at his leisure, because the probability of being a town is higher than being a mafia from the random draw. I guess I might be taking a bit of a n00b stance on this, considering I haven't played before and would like to try my hand at being a Mafia, and I know I would be much more likely to stay in a game if I were that Mafia player. But I guess I see the point that there are people out there who will enjoy the game and people who won't and will want to leave. And I guess you can never know real life circumstances... so, okay, I think I've figured it out, but I'll leave this in incase anyone has anything else to say on the matter.

Also, (I have to reread somethings a bit, BUT) do you guys think it would be a smart move for me to move Chkflip up to L-1? Sure we have a week for the deadline, but if anyone hammer's him prematurely we can assume them to be mafia.

[thunderwielder]

Whoops. Speak of the devil.

[Bulvious]

Thunder wrote:
Why can't I use the subbing in and outs as evidence?

First off, it seems convenient for you. Granted, you're not really in a horrible position, but assuming Chkflip is right about a Fatso/Kard/Thunder BS/Workdawg team, this is a super good thing to have people agree on for you. It would be assuming that you and WD are clean on something rather light and unhelpful. If someone is really truly busy with their lives I think they wouldn't give much of a shit about a forum game. This game constitutes of about 5-30 mins of my day every day, and I couldn't imagine it taking any more of that time. Yet still, if I was busy, I would prefer to use my recreational time on other things, rather than sitting down here and trying to think and solve. So there's a couple good reasons why it would be bullox and why it sounds fairly bad coming from the slot that has had three people in it.

but if anyone hammer's him prematurely we can assume them to be mafia.

WRONG

You read my games, correct? In my first game, a town prematurely hammered twice, and I ended up hammering him D3 for a town lose. He was like Aln in that he contributed nothing and defended himself little, but he also was hammering townies like a madman. Needless to say, this isn't true. Additionally, why as for permission if you believe yourself to be accurate and correct? This seems a tad on the scummy end to me.


Thunder/WD scumteam, viable.
But I'm also seeing a bit of Chkflip/Shotty scumteaminess.

Though I suppose Alnpka is still on my radar, his inactivity is making any attempt to get him to respond... Not work. Aln, if you are town, you are quite horrible at it. The second worst I've seen on this site. I'm very displeased with your play and I'd still lynch you if ANYONE actually agreed with me.

Thunder, a question for you. If your top three scumspects are myself, Chkflip, or h3ll0, and you think Chkflip is most strongly scum, then who do you most strongly believe to be his buddy?