The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Fate]

Trolololol

"Im so town because I'm about to be completely egged on face, and I wouldn't do that as scum"

Not fooling anyone.

PC is town, and since he's not gonna die tonight you fucks BETTER listen to him tomorrow. He gets Town leader hat for LyLo, and since him and Yos are in a meta 1v1, lynch the fuck out of Yos. Then when Yos flips scum Jailkeeper, lynch Balam.

[TheButtonmen]

I'm putting this game on hold until I can sort out exactly what happened.

[TheButtonmen]

Vote Count:

Final Destination (5): FES, YosFlavouredCayke, Balam, DaSpot, Mastermate

Balam (2): Copper, Final Destination,


Not Voting (2): Profane Confusion,Lord Fonzi

That's a lynch.

[TheButtonmen]

Final Destination the Vanilla Townie

has been lynched.

Night 4 is going to be extended, I will announce in thread hopefully with-in the next 24 hours when it will end (It will last for at least 72 hours after I post) as I need to sort some things out.

[TheButtonmen]

Night 4 ends May 3rd @ 19:00 EST.

[TheButtonmen]

DaSpotthatkillsu the Town Tracker

has been killed.

Welcome to Day 5.

[Profane Confusion]

Our agenda for Today:

1) Mass claim
2) Learn what our so-called "power roles" did
3) Lynch YosCayke

Understood? Good.

If everyone agrees to mass claim, I don't mind who goes first. Heck, I don't mind starting. But as long as #3 of our agenda gets done, I'll be a happy man.

- Incog

[Balam]

(Equinox)

This is going to be long rambling post, but please bear with me.

First off, I owe an apology to AlmasterGM and Fate for my conduct and the massive and undeserved amount of disrespect I displayed toward them yesterday. I know this is no excuse, but I got carried away; I should have taken a moment to think about the implications of what I was saying and, above all, I should have waited to get all of the facts before leveling the accusations that I did. I learned later, after the thread was locked, that RayFrost did indeed approach Fate about his drunk posting, though RayFrost tells me that this occurred well before the drunken activity in this game. Fate made an honest mistake, and I gave him and AlmasterGM hell for it. For that, I apologize.

In my defense, the only thing I took issue with was the implication that this conversation occurred after Fate's drunk posting in this game. Since this discussion seems to have occurred before then, using that for meta is fine since it's clear that it's not related to this game. Whether or not the application of that meta is correct, I will have to leave to the rest of you because we are in no position to make a statement there either way.

Something else I will say is that the gambit was terrible. We had a result on you, and you made a town-on-town fight into a 1:1 that is now about to lose us the game. I wish I could say, "Don't do that again," but knowing it's you two, that would be useless. I'll acknowledge that my play in this hydra has been subpar and that I'd have a hand in town's defeat if we lose, but this gambit played a major part in that, too, and that's on you.

To address the game:

We targeted Copper on Night 3, and we were unable to get a result.

We chose Copper because of the slip Final Destination pointed out from their post 1426. Copper is a thorough hydra; RayFrost and I know this from experience, and you've seen their behavior in this thread. Final Destination's counterclaim was a major point of contention, yet Copper named only three power roles: jailkeeper, role cop, tracker. What that tells me is that Copper believed our results on Final Destination, despite questioning our claim and taking Final Destination's side.

I doubt YosFlavouredCayke is a mafia jailkeeper. As Copper mentioned previously, there has been no evidence thus far of a killing power for YosFlavouredCayke-scum to counter, and I feel that's a plausible explanation. I could go collect data later on setups using a scum jailkeeper to verify, but I'm not going to do that until I know my efforts won't be wasted (read below).

FoS: YosFlavouredCayke

DaSpotthatkillsu is dead. There's something about Mastermate's post that I will talk about in my next post, but setup speculation in conjunction with NK analysis should have made apparent that there could not have been a doctor with a town-aligned jailkeeper, and Mastermate possibly made an error in directing YosFlavouredCayke away in favor of getting a result from DaSpotthatkillsu. The obvious protection target tonight should have been DaSpotthatkillsu, yet between Mastermate and YosFlavouredCayke, something went wrong. That "something" was obviously not a roleblocker, since we got roleblocked (or maybe even jailkept, who the hell knows).

Forgive me for not having any other reads. I worked out possible teams for Final Destination-scum and YosFlavouredCayke-scum on Day 3, and both of those have been dashed on the rocks. I put in the bare minimum last night to figure out a target, and that was it. Thinking about this game hurt and made me feel like crap, and I didn't want to think about it any more than was absolutely necessary. Further, I didn't want to put in a ton of effort only to find out we'd gotten quick-lynched.

This roleblock is giving me some inspiration, you scumbags. Ahahahaha.

I have a request. If you have any lingering doubts about us at all, please hold your votes. I will wait a couple of days, and then I will tear into this thread like there is no tomorrow. I may have a renewed sense of purpose in this game, but I'm actually pretty busy with real-life stuff at the moment, and I'd like to know that if I'm going to spend upwards of 50 hours on this thread rereading it, my efforts will not be wasted by some derp thinking we're confirmed scum.

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

2 out of 2 (not necessarily distinct) Shanbas questioned agree that mass claim is the right play here.

Popcorn, obviously. We want PC to start.

[Profane Confusion]

Like I said, I have no qualms with when I go.

smargaret and I are as Vanilla as they come.

I'd like either FES or Copper to go next. FES, since you're around, you might as well go.

Balam, why would anyone think you're confirmed scum?

- Incog

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

Townie here.

Copper's next.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Hmm... On second thought, I'd like to hear excuses from both Mastermate and YosFlavouredCayke before I slam down an analysis. Naturalistic observation, go.

By the way, anything I post for the next few days or so is pure Equinox. AGar has been out of the hydra and won't return until Wednesday. If RayFrost has something to say, he'll probably just post it himself.

Preview edit: I wrote that at the end of the day, pretty much immediately after the spat with Final Destination. Mastermate claimed we were scum if Final Destination flipped town, and the environment at the time was "1 of Balam or Final Destination is scum, now die" even after the gambit was revealed.

Preview edit the second: Oh, yippee, the thing I couldn't get last night. I can't wait.

[Kcdaspot]

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM

Good luck town.

you guys need it.

[Profane Confusion]

Preview edit: I wrote that at the end of the day, pretty much immediately after the spat with Final Destination. Mastermate claimed we were scum if Final Destination flipped town, and the environment at the time was "1 of Balam or Final Destination is scum, now die" even after the gambit was revealed.

The majority of what you've written there is stuff that should have happened across the Night though.

[Copper]

Vanilla.

Mastermate can go next.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Uh, if the strikes didn't make this fact obvious enough, I made edits in light of new information I got overnight. >_>

The paragraph following the FoS, I wrote immediately after TheButtonmen opened the thread and I opened the result PM.

[Profane Confusion]

Heh.

Well, Copper's claim is about what I expected from that spot considering something they said earlier in the game. If they claimed anything other than Vanilla, I likely would have been pushing for their lynch right now.

- Incog

[Mastermate]

We're waiting for YosFlavouredCayke to claim their "results" before we claim our role (although if our better half decides to claim, I won't be too put out). Not going to give them any chances, although you townie sheep have already given them plenty of safe targets.

Step 1: I commend YosFlavouredCayke and Balam for having the balls to call our protection bluff with DaSpot.

Step 2: Lynch YosFlavouredCayke for being an obvious mafia roleblocker who can easily claim to be jailkeeper because they know who's going to die each night.

Step 3: Lynch Balam for being YosFlavouredCayke's obvious scumpartner.

Step 4: Lynch the third mafia and win.

More analysis to come tomorrow, I need to play some LoL.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Our agenda for Today:

1) Mass claim
2) Learn what our so-called "power roles" did
3) Lynch YosCayke

Lol. You do realize that I'm still a pretty much confirmed town power role at this point, right? Fate's douchebaggery fake claim dosn't change that at all; if anything, the fact that he was vanilla just further confirms Balam's role claim, if not his alignment. Only way I could be scum is if you actually believe there could be a scum jailkeeper, or if you actually think Balam is a mafia roleclop who is scum with me and we planned out that stupid clusterfuck yesterday way in advance, with Balam's breadcrumbs and all. You tell me which highly implausible theory you're trying to push here, and I'll tell you why it's obviously wrong.

Anyway, my first reaction when I saw Fate's alignmet was that one of my town reads must actually be scum, if there's 3 scum in the game.

No, that's a lie. My first reaction was a stream of expletives, pounding my fist against the wall, and yelling, quickly followed by a personal decision to never, ever play in a mafia game with Fate again under any circumstance. I can't believe anyone could possibly be that much of an idiot, to fake claim in order to put himself in a one on one situation WITH SOMEONE HE KNEW WAS TELLING THE TRUTH. That's beyond just idiocy, he must have known he was playing against his win condition and just not cared. Arrggghh.

Anyway, I walked away from the game, calmed down and didn't think about the game for about 24 hours, and when I stopped seeing red, I realized that one of of my town reads must be wrong if there are 3 scum. I had a town read on Spot, on Balam, on FES, on Fonzi, and on Mastermind, but one of them must actually be scum. What's worse, I said all my town reads in thread yesterday, because it never occurred to me that Fate might actually flip town, so that meant scum could send whichever one of the 3 of them was on my town list.

I still consider Balam to be basically confimed town. Fate's idiotic behavior doesn't change the fact that Balam is a confirmed rolecop, and I can't see a scum rolecop claiming in order to save a town jailkeeper and lynch a vanilla townie who was also a complete VI.

So, even if I was right and copper and PC are both scum, I realized that one of (FES, Fonzi, Mastermate, spot) must be scum with them, and I had to try to figure out which one was scum so I could roleblock them. Trying to play doctor was pointless; there were 3 claimed power roles, with Spot being the most obvious scum target, but I didn't want to block the tracker.

Out of the 4, I didn't think believe Spot was scum after the whole claim thing yesterday, and I didn't want to block him in any case. I really see how Fonzi could be scum, especally not with Copper; and I still felt like FES was town. Also, the end of the day post where Matermate seemed to be trying to get me to confirm in thread that I wasn't going to target Spot bugged me, and made me wonder if he wanted to make sure Spot wasn't going to be protected so he could get a clear shot at him. I did have a pro-town read on him all game, but I had to be wrong about one of the people I had a town read on all game. So, I took a shot and blocked mastermate.

Obviously, he didn't do the kill last night. So either I was wrong, and he's not the third scum, or the scum out-WIFOM'd me and sent one of the people I was attacking yesterday. Or, I donno, perhaps TWO of my town reads were wrong. Ugh.

I don't know. I think we're probably fucked this game, and I blame Fate for it.

I still think PC is scum here; it's inconceivable to me that Incog would just start off this day with a "lol let's lynch Yos" after my role was confirmed by Balam yesterday, and he's just not playing like town. He's just way too bloody happy to be a pro-town person in a 7 player lynch or lose; his whole "let's just lynch Yos" today, without even seeming to really care about claims or bothering to even mention reads on anyone else in the game, just feels like he's a scum trying to end the game.

Other then that, I'm not confident about anything at this point, not even my earlier town reads, since one of them must be wrong if there's a 3 man scum group. So, I don't know, scum group might be PC/Copper/Mastermate, or PC/Copper/FES, or perhaps even PC/FES/Matermate. I have trouble imagining how could FES could possibly be scum here, but I'm also running out of ideas. Balam claims to have been roleblocked last night, so out of the 3 scum, one of them must be a scum roleblocker. (And, of course, if there is a scum roleblocker, then that would explain why they wanted to block Balam). In order for us to win at this point, we have to vote perfectly from here on out, unless I manage to somehow stop 2 kills, which is pretty unlikely if there's a scum roleblocker (unless we lynch him today).

[Profane Confusion]

Dude, you're not confirmed town anything. The only thing Balam has said about you is that you have the ability to block and protect; Balam has claimed Rolecop, which means he/she/it or whatever they are has no clue what your alignment is, so I don't get why you're coming in here claiming otherwise.

I think you're scum for the reasons I've listed Yesterday and because pretty much everything you've done this game has been completely wrong and completely beneficial for scum; starting from your supposed protections on Night 1 and Night 2, your claimed suspicions of practically the same three obvtown people from pretty much Day 1 to the present, and now your most recent "Night choice" to Jailkeep Mastermate? That's the most hilarious load of crap I've ever heard. I can't believe you seriously just wrote this:

with Spot being the most obvious scum target

and this:

but I didn't want to block the tracker.

...in the same sentence. Final Destination and I covered this Yesterday with the whole Pathetric thing, and you still didn't learn?

You REEK of scum. I can't believe you're even trying to pin a potential town loss on Fate's back; if you do manage to somehow be town here, I think it's pretty much YOUR fault that we've lost.

Looking at vote counts, every single person who's ever been on your wagon is now dead town (well, with the exception of the Unicorns/Mastermate). I want to bring them justice. Your buddy(ies) can wait.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Lynch YosFlavouredCayke for being an obvious mafia roleblocker

X

Who is the third mafia, by the way? Yes, this third read is important.

So, I took a shot and blocked mastermate.

You admit yourself that you weren't sure who was scum, yet you passed up the chance to protect the person who was nearly guaranteed to be killed?

---

Okay, there's something I'm confused about. YosFlavouredCayke, as jailkeeper, is the protective role, yet scum went ahead and blocked the role cop, as if they knew DaSpotthatkillsu was not going to be protected.

Yeah, something's up here. Copper's comment about the setup and scum jailkeepers bug me, though; looks like I'll be doing some digging through setups to see if this has been done before.

[Profane Confusion]

Okay, there's something I'm confused about. YosFlavouredCayke, as jailkeeper, is the protective role, yet scum went ahead and blocked the role cop, as if they knew DaSpotthatkillsu was not going to be protected.

Question: why wouldn't this make you lean towards Yos being scum here?

- Incog

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Something just occurred to me.

I was pushing Copper and Profane Confusion yesterday. Granted, that was in conjunction with Final Destination-scum, but I did pretty much grant passes to DaSpotthatkillsu, Lord Fonzi, and Mastermate. Frogito Ergo Sum wasn't tracked anywhere, so that wasn't going to be much of a lead anyway.

I think role cops investigate mafia goons as vanilla, so if my likely target were vanilla, the scum could have just let me run with it... yet I got stopped instead of, say, YosFlavouredCayke (assuming they're town).

I'll sleep on this, I suppose.

Preview edit:

Question: why wouldn't this make you lean towards Yos being scum here?

Setup. It's becoming apparent now that there's no shooting power for a mafia jailkeeper to counter. (As much as I suspect Copper, their explanation did make sense.) There's more reason for that jailkeeper to be on the town side. That said, I probably should collect data to see if there's been precedent for this sort of thing before.

[Profane Confusion]

The Copper explanation made sense on the surface, but I see no reason for why the mod couldn't throw something like a scum JK in to the mix to make the set-up a bit less predictable especially if your claim is truthful and actually town-sided.

- Incog

[YosFlavouredCayke]

You admit yourself that you weren't sure who was scum, yet you passed up the chance to protect the person who was nearly guaranteed to be killed?

There were 3 pro-town power roles who were in the open. Spot was the most likely target, of course, but not "nearly guarenteed to be killed".

In any case, I wasn't 100% sure of Spot's alignment. I thought he was town, but ONE OF MY TOWN READS WAS WRONG. If Spot had been alive today, but didn't have any kind of result because I had blocked him, then we wouldn't have anything to go on; if he was going to survive until today, then I would have wanted him to have a result.

---

Okay, there's something I'm confused about. YosFlavouredCayke, as jailkeeper, is the protective role, yet scum went ahead and blocked the role cop, as if they knew DaSpotthatkillsu was not going to be protected.

If the scum have a roleblocker, which they do if you're telling the truth, then you are the biggest threat to them. If I had stopped a kill, we'd still be in "mislynch and lose" today. On the other hand, if you targeted someone and got a "roleblocker" result, then you would KNOW that person is scum; no way there's a town jailkeeper and a town roleblocker.

They could just as easily as killed you and blocked Spot; I'm guessing the only reason the scum didn't kill you last night is that they didn't want to confirm me as probable town, they wanted to keep pretending a Yos-Balam scumgroup was a possibility to try to get me mislynched today.