Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[havingfitz]

Votecount 3.8:

Hinduragi - 1 (Maxous)

Haylen - 5 (Scott Brosius, Regfan, subgenius, bgg1996, Haylen)

No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)

Not voting: (Hinduragi)

---

Haylen: "I'm a one-shot redirector...honest."
Everyone who isn't Haylen: "Sounds good to us...mostly."
Scott: "Wait a minute...not sure that role fits into the way our town is supposed to be doing business????"
Everyone not Scott or Haylen: "Hmmm....you have a good point there....mostly."
Haylen: "I'm perfectly within my rights to be what I said I am. So there!"
Everyone not Haylen: "No you aren't....mostly."
Haylen: "Well shit. Hand me that rope."

As the town rejoiced in anticipation their assumptions following the timely demise of Ms Haylen proved well founded.

Haylen -

Mafia Godfather

has been lynched. <clap clap>

Night 3 deadline is 0200 EST, April 30th. If you have night actions please submit them before the night ends.

[havingfitz]

I'm going to be out when night is scheduled to end, so the dawn is coming a few hours early instead of a few hours late.

---

As the town begins to wind down after a heavy night of rejoicing the death of the Mafia godfather they can't help but think what a good job Scott Brosius did catching the irregularities in Haylen's claim. Good job they all said as they bought him drinks. Unfortunately it's not a hangover that is keeping Scott from joining the Day 4 activities.

Scott Brosius,

Vanilla Town

is dead.

With 6 players left it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is 10PM est, Friday the 13th (of May).

[Maxous]

Heh, convenient timing for the game to re-open.

As others have mentioned, it seems unlikely that both claimed PR's are faking, so Hindu is probably town.

And why can't he be telling the truth about his power and also be mafia? Why automatically town?
Mafia have night powers.

Speaking of which
@Hinduragi: Did you happen to use your jailkeeping power last night?

[subgenius]

And why can't he be telling the truth about his power and also be mafia? Why automatically town?
Mafia have night powers.

TBH, I was bluffing. Even if he is a town JK, I think maf would have done us a favor by offing him. I was hoping maf would be more likely to NK him if town appeared to be putting a lot of trust in him. I thought eliminating a potential WIFOM would be more useful than a one shot JK, I guess either mafia agreed or CMAR is also Mafia.

I'm not liking CMAR/Hindu, but Hindu has a whole day to make me think differently. I think the fact that Haylen's one shot claim was bogus actually casts more doubt on CMAR's claim. It seems quite possible that CMAR was following Haylen's lead after seeing the effectiveness of her one-shot claim. Also, as SB mentioned, if CMAR is a JK, that would mean the town was given two protective roles, which seems somewhat excessive.

Now, Max, why was it that you were so uninterested in noting how Haylen's claim clearly contradicted the rules of normal setups? You seemed to accept her explanations although they really didn't explain anything. Up to that point, you had been quite on the ball, but with Haylen, you seemed all too ready to accept her excuses.

CMAR and Max are my top two suspects atm, but I'm having trouble fitting them together as a scum team. If they were paired together, that would mean Max was trying to bus Hindu/CMAR yesterday, and as I said yesterday, I don't think that it was a good spot to bus.

[vollkan]

I'm now basically left without a clear suspect. CMAR obviously has the highest score, but his claim obviously complicates things. I agree with SubG that there is a decent chance that CMAR was sheeping Haylen's claim.

Either way, I will not be pushing NL today, despite the fact that it is most likely 4:2 MYLO.

My reasons (to state the obvious):
1) BGG is now 100% confirmed town, given that Haylen was a GF.
2) If Haylen was town, there was a good chance she'd be killed over BGG given her power. Seeing as how: a) that is no longer a possibility; b) if CMAR is town he would be the most likely lynch; and c) that there are no other standout suspects or clears; it's almost a certainty that BGG would be NKed with no real possibility of anything else happening.

[subgenius]

Doing a brief reread of the day 2 and day 3, I noticed a few things about CMAR.

1)He didn't start breadcrumbing his JK claim until after he had 3 votes on him towards the end of day 2. This was his 27th post of the thread. I think this further calls the authenticity of his claim into question. If he was the bread crumbing sort, I would expect him to start doing it earlier.
2)He seemed far too trusting of Haylen's claim.

3) Despite her scumminess, Haylen should not be the lynch today unless we all come to an agreement. In reality, if she is town and we mislynch, she is possibly our only hope of making it through the night. If possible, we should find scum elsewhere.

This quote does not make sense if his claim is truthful. He was still unclaimed at this point and would know that he had a chance to protect if he was telling the truth. Why would he defend Haylen while admitting that she is scummy if he actually held a shot at using a protection?

Do not NL today as we have (if Haylen isn't lying) 2 chances of avoiding kill today.

3)Combined with Truant's earlier defense of Yura:

Yura is (unfortunately) my strongest town read; pretty much for the exact opposite reasons as Vollkan had initially voted him for (the threat comment makes no sense coming from scum; especially somebody as seemingly ignorant as Yura where I can't believe he'd be bright enough to think about saying that as scum).

I'm regaining steam on my truant/cmar/hindu scum read.

[bgg1996]

I really should've known that Haylen was a GF after she said 'Maybe you're a investigation-immune godfather'. Hindsight 20 20.

Anyway, the players left are:
3. Regfan
5. Maxous
6. vollkan
7. Hinduragi
9. bgg1996
11. subgenius
Now I want to find the lynch for today, not the scumteam.
I'm out.
3. Regfan
5. Maxous
6. vollkan
7. Hinduragi
11. subgenius
I don't want to lynch vollkan, still. He is the most experienced player. And Haylen may have been scum, but everybody else but me and Hinduragi are near zero, so the only likely scumteam with him would be vollkan-Hinduragi-Haylen.
3. Regfan
5. Maxous
7. Hinduragi
11. subgenius
Up till now, I've been getting a good read on subgenius.
3. Regfan
5. Maxous
7. Hinduragi
I'd like to think that CMAR wondering what role Magnetic had wasn't a scum ploy for townpoints, Hinduragi didn't search through the thread for his own claim before claiming, and scum killed Scott because they thought he may have jailkept/protected me.
3. Regfan
5. Maxous
Now this probably isn't the scumteam. Most likely, one of the people I excluded was scum. Between these two, I would have to go with Maxous.
Not quite sure enough for a vote/lynch just yet, but IGMEOY Maxous.

[Regfan]

I'm going to need to do an extreme amount of re-reading.

I think Yuras interactions with players is probably the best place to start working out possible partners.

[subgenius]

I'd like to think that CMAR wondering what role Magnetic had wasn't a scum ploy for townpoints, Hinduragi didn't search through the thread for his own claim before claiming, and scum killed Scott because they thought he may have jailkept/protected me.

Hindu had plenty of time to search the thread for his claim. He said he has played with Vollkan, Haylen, and SB, which leads me to believe he is more than experienced enough to realize why you were so insistent that he had to claim immediately and quickly scan the ISO's of Truant and CMAR to see if either had already claimed. Also, lets not forget that SB was extremely vocal about his suspicions of CMAR's claim, which provides an alternative motive for the NK. I think that if mafia thought CMAR was for real, they would have NK'd him rather than you or anyone else. The risk of him successfully protecting someone, thus confirming both himself and his target was too great. Admittedly, this is WIFOM, but that's my take on it.

[bgg1996]

I think Yuras interactions with players is probably the best place to start working out possible partners.

She voted for:
VOLLKAN, because nobody was choosing him.
Surprise_Carcinogen, agrees with me that he hasnt said anything for awhile...
magnetic, For spazzing over one vote.
CuriousKarmaDog, because he sided with her when people started to attack her.
BGG, agrees with subgenius that I was making pointless arguments.

I'd say that the first one could be bussing/distancing, but the rest are probably all going to be town, which doesn't really help, seeing as all of them but me are dead.
The only relevant information I can see is that the two people she listened to when deciding votes were me and subgenius. Since I'm town, that probably gives him some townpoints.

I'd say that Haylen would be more important. I don't think she would bus unless she thought she was about to die, so any of her suspicions from just after she claimed to when her claim was proven valid were actually scum.

[bgg1996]

Also, I don't think that scum-vollkan would risk arguing about how many scum there were, and he did.

[bgg1996]

Regfan, the time difference between your post and my last post is roughly 9 hrs. Which happens to be the 9 hours I particularly enjoy sleeping in. I'm getting sick of people making comments like that when they can't be bothered to find out someone's timezone and think about what that person might be doing during that time.

Who I would be happy lynching today and a summarised why

CryMeARiver - really really not liking his one shot JK claim. All scum would need to do to confirm it is no kill and have him say he jailkeeped a really scummy townie, then get that townie lynched and win the game. Plus how he's played during the game and saying how he knows he's played badly. Didn't he claim early aswell?

Vollkun - I'm not liking how he jumped on what subgenius had twisted. Even if Subgenius had got it wrong, it still looked opportunistic.

Subgenius - For misrepping me. But I can't remember if he made a good defense against that. I want to re-read our 'exchange'.

Not sure.

Bgg - I DON'T KNOW. I might be being paranoid or I might not be.
No lynch - I will feel really gutted if it's mylo right now and we mislynch a townie. Even with power roles. Would this be the safer option? If so why the heck is Vollkun pushing it if I think he's scum? To look good? I don't know.

If we eliminate those three and myself, we get Regfan and Maxous. Hmm, why do those two people sound familiar. Maxous is now looking pretty likely scum, especially considering as I remember it he was one of the only ones who actually opposed a Haylen lynch after it was explained that it couldn't be in the rules.

And yet he doesn't seem

the least bit

shocked or surprised when she self-lynches.
Look at the posts, Maxous Iso #81/82.

From:

Granted I am not familiar with the rules and requirememnts for this game but lynching somebody due to set-up speculation is not a good idea at all

To

Heh, I just finished a game called Amnesia: The Dark Descent, in which the main character got coaxed by a mysterious man into committing mass murders. The main character then regretted the evil monster he had become and sought redemption and release through death.
I found that coincidence amusing.

Also, he referred to Haylen as confirmed mafia after she self-lynched, but before her role was revealed. Maxous Iso#82. That

could

have been done by town, but I say it's because he already knew her role, long before that.

Actually, I noticed that while typing the post.

I'm not quite sure where I stand on Regfan, however.

[Regfan]

Still doing some reading through.

What's everyones thoughts on a mass-claim today?

[Regfan]

Scum.

Confirmed Town

Unknown.

SK.

Regfan (Town)

Day 1 VCA

Votecount 1.1:

bgg1996

- 1 (subgenius)

tclawren

- 1 ( Truant)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 2 (

Magnetic

, vollkan)

Regfan

- 1 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

Pappums rat

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)

Magnetic

– 1 (

Andrew

)

yura-chi

– 1 (

Pappums rat

)
Not voting: (Maxous,

Regfan

,

yura-chi

,

tclawren

,

bgg1996

)
Anaylsis: See nothing here. Votes are very split up.

Votecount 1.2:

bgg1996

- 1 (subgenius)

tclawren

- 1 ( Truant)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

bgg1996

)

Pappums rat

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)

Magnetic

– 4 (

Andrew

,

yura-chi

,

tclawren

, vollkan) <-- L-3

yura-chi

– 3 (

Pappums rat

,

Magnetic

,

Suprise_Carcinogen

)
Not voting: (Maxous,

Regfan

)
Anaylsis: Non-town players are very quick on Magnetic, the rest of the mafia are holding of. Nothing here.
Votecount 1.3:

bgg1996

- 1 (subgenius)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

bgg1996

)

Pappums rat

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)

Magnetic

– 6 (

Andrew

,

yura-chi

,

tclawren

, vollkan, Maxous, Truant) <-- L-1

yura-chi

– 2 (

Pappums rat

,

Magnetic

,)
Not voting: (

Regfan

,

Suprise_Carcinogen

)
Anaylsis: Quite a few players alive are now on Magnetic, however read nothing from that given Magnetics nature.
Votecount 1.4:

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

bgg1996

)
Maxous - 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)

Magnetic

– 7 (

Andrew

,

yura-chi

, vollkan, Maxous, Truant, subgenius,

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

yura-chi

– 2 (

Pappums rat

,

Magnetic

)
Not voting: (

Regfan

,

tclawren

Anaylsis: Everyone alive bar me was on that lynch, means nothing given his actions.

Overall Day One Anaylsis: Nothing gained from this. The rest is incoming, and a lot more is gained from it.

[Regfan]

Day 2 VCA Part 1/2.
Votecount 2.1:

curiouskarmadog

- 2 (

Regfan

,

yura-chi

)

yura-chi

– 2 (Truant,

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

bgg1996

- 1 (subgenius)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Not voting: (subgenius,

bgg1996

,

curiouskarmadog

, vollkan, Maxous)
Anyalsis: Yura is quick to vote, as is Traunt on Yura. Given day ones actions I can see bussing be very possible here. Scumpoints to Traunt.

Votecount 2.2:

curiouskarmadog

- 2 (

Regfan

,

yura-chi

)

yura-chi

– 1 (vollkan)

bgg1996

- 1 (subgenius)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)

Andrew

- 1 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

Regfan

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
Not voting: (

bgg1996

, Truant, Maxous)
Anyalsis: Traunts off Yura now, that was quick. Volkan is now on him. More scumpoints to Traunt, seems like early bussing attempt which stopped when no one joined it.

Votecount 2.3:

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Regfan

)

yura-chi

– 1 (vollkan)

bgg1996

- 2 (subgenius,

yura-chi

)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)

Andrew

- 1 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

Regfan

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
Not voting: (

bgg1996

, Truant, Maxous)
Anyalsis: Volkan is still on Yura, townpoints to him. Yura has joined Sub on Bgg, don't think he'd follow his partner this quickly, town points to Sub.

Votecount 2.4:

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Regfan

)

yura-chi

– 1 (vollkan)

bgg1996

- 2 (subgenius,

yura-chi

)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)

Andrew

- 1 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

Regfan

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
Truant - 1 (Maxous)
Not voting: (

bgg1996

, Truant)
Anyalsis: Volkan is still on Yura, townpoints to him again. Nothing changed.

Votecount 2.5:

yura-chi

– 2 (vollkan, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 2 (subgenius,

yura-chi

)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)

Andrew

- 2 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

,

Regfan

)
Not voting: (

bgg1996

, Truant,

curiouskarmadog

)
Anyalsis: Maxous has now joined Volkan on Yura. Unsure what to make of it.

Votecount 2.6:

yura-chi

– 2 (vollkan, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 3 (subgenius,

yura-chi

, Truant)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)

Andrew

- 2 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

,

Regfan

)
Not voting: (

bgg1996

,

curiouskarmadog

)
Anyalsis: Traunt has now joined Sub and Yura on Bgg. His vote puts majority on Bgg as well. I don't think all three mafia would be voting together in a block in a position such as this. This rules out Sub+Traunt possibility.

Make sure to go back and read his reasoning

Votecount 2.7:

yura-chi

– 2 (vollkan,

curiouskarmadog

)

bgg1996

- 2 (

yura-chi

, Truant)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)

Andrew

- 2 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

,

Regfan

)
Truant - 2 (subgenius, Maxous)
Not voting: (

bgg1996

)
Anyalsis: A lot has moved in this VC, Sub has changed from Yura to Traunt along with Maxous. Further proves that Sub/Traunt aren't a team. Traunt/Yura both still voting together.

Votecount 2.8:

yura-chi

– 2 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

bgg1996

- 2 (

yura-chi

, Truant)

Suprise_Carcinogen

- 1 (

Andrew

)

Andrew

- 3 (

Regfan

,

bgg1996

,

curiouskarmadog

)
Truant - 2 (subgenius, Maxous)
Anaylsis: Nothing has changed. What's notable is taht Traunt/Yura haven't separated their votes yet.

Votecount 2.9:

yura-chi

– 2 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

bgg1996

- 2 (

yura-chi

, Truant)

Andrew

- 3 (

Regfan

,

bgg1996

,

curiouskarmadog

)
Truant - 2 (subgenius, Maxous)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Anaylsis: No change.

Votecount 2.11:

yura-chi

– 3 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 2 (

yura-chi

, Truant)

Andrew

- 2 (

bgg1996

,

curiouskarmadog

)
Truant - 1 (subgenius)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Maxous - 1 (

Regfan

)[/spoiler]
Anaylsis: Maxous moves from Traunt to Yura now giving Yura majority.

[Regfan]

Day 2 Part 2 VCA

Votecount 2.12:

yura-chi

– 3 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 1 (

yura-chi

)

Andrew

- 2 (

bgg1996

,

curiouskarmadog

)
Truant - 1 (subgenius)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Maxous - 1 (

Regfan

)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver)
Anaylsis: Not much has changed.

Votecount 2.13:

yura-chi

– 3 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 1 (

yura-chi

)

Andrew

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
CryMeARiver - 2 (subgenius,

bgg1996

)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Maxous - 1 (

Regfan

)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver)
Anaylsis: Not much has changed.

Votecount 2.14:

Haylen

– 3 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 1 (CryMeARiver)

Andrew

- 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
CryMeARiver - 2 (subgenius,

bgg1996

)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Maxous - 1 (

Regfan

)
Not voting: (

Haylen

)
Anaylsis: Not much has changed.

Votecount 2.15:

Haylen

– 3 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 1 (CryMeARiver)

Andrew

- 2 (

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

)
CryMeARiver - 1 (subgenius)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Maxous - 1 (

Regfan

)
Not voting: (

Haylen

)
Anaylsis: Not much has changed.

Votecount 2.16:

Haylen

– 3 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous)

bgg1996

- 1 (CryMeARiver)

Andrew

- 2 (

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

)
CryMeARiver - 1 (subgenius)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Maxous - 1 (

Regfan

)
Not voting: (

Haylen

)
Anaylsis: Not much has changed.

Votecount 2.17:

Haylen

– 4 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous, subgenius)

Andrew

- 3 (

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

)
CryMeARiver - 1 (

Regfan

)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Anaylsis: Haylen has jumped onto Andrew to attempt to save herself, Sub puts the fourth vote on Haylen giving her majority town points for him (Read into his reasoning).

Votecount 2.18:

Haylen

– 4 (vollkan,

Suprise_Carcinogen

, Maxous, subgenius)

Andrew

- 3 (

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

Regfan

)
Anaylsis: Not much has changed.

Votecount 2.19:

Haylen

– 2 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

, subgenius)

Andrew

- 4 (

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

,

Regfan

)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
CryMeARiver - 2 (vollkan, Maxous)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver)
Anaylsis: Wow. Haylen wagon is being pulled apart here. Volkan and Maxous have both changed to CryMe, need to read into their reasoning but scum points to them both.

Votecount 2.20:

Haylen

– 1 (

Suprise_Carcinogen

)

Andrew

- 4 (

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

,

Regfan

)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

Andrew

)
CryMeARiver - 3 (vollkan, Maxous, subgenius)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver)
Anaylsis: Subgenius has noe moved away pulling all support for a Haylen lynch away apart from S_C. Need to read into this section more but certaintly points to scum in that move away.

Votecount 2.21:

Andrew

- 6 (

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, CryMeARiver,

Suprise_Carcinogen

)
CryMeARiver - 4 (vollkan, Maxous, subgenius,

Andrew

)
Anaylsis: All three unclears are voting the other unclear here. This is also a position where bussing would be stupid considering the amount of suspicion on Haylens spot already. I really don't see any of these votes being a buss.

Overall Day 2 anaylsis: CryMeARiver isn't mafia unless he's the last mafia in the game which I doubt given the power roles dead at the moment.

[Regfan]

Day 3 VCA

Votecount 3.1:
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

curiouskarmadog

,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, Maxous, subgenius)
Anaylsis: Nothing gained.

Votecount 3.2:
vollkan - 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, Maxous, subgenius)
Anaylsis: Nothing gained.

Votecount 3.3:
vollkan - 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
CryMeARiver - 1 (subgenius)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, Maxous)
Analysis: Nothing gained.

Votecount 3.4:
vollkan - 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
CryMeARiver - 1 (subgenius)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, Maxous)
Anaylsis: Nothing gained.

Votecount 3.5:
vollkan - 1 (

curiouskarmadog

)
CryMeARiver - 1 (subgenius)

curiouskarmadog

- 1 (

bgg1996

)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, Maxous)
Analysis: Nothing gained.

Votecount 3.6:
CryMeARiver - 2 (subgenius,

Scott Brosius

)

Scott Brosius

- 1 (

bgg1996

)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, Maxous)
Anaylsis: For a second lets assume that both CMAR and Sub were town, that would mean mafia are Maxous and Volkan meaning if they both voted CMAR the game would end.

Votecount 3.7:
Hinduragi - 2 (

Scott Brosius

, Maxous)

Scott Brosius

- 1 (

bgg1996

)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (subgenius, Hinduragi,

Haylen

,

Regfan

)
Anaylsis: Oh, so look what happens Maxous votes Hind. Taking the chance at ending the game there I see. I'll need to read into this area more.

Votecount 3.8:
Hinduragi - 1 (Maxous)

Haylen

- 5 (

Scott Brosius

,

Regfan

, subgenius,

bgg1996

,

Haylen

)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (Hinduragi)[/spoiler]
Anaylsis: Nothing gained.

Overall anaylsis: CMAR is town. Maxous is likely mafia with Volkan probably as his partner.

[vollkan]

I'm going to reread Maxous around the Haylen-Normal issue (I probably won't get to this until tomorrow, because I am in depths of mid-semester assessment atm)

Before that, I want to respond to this part of Regfan's VCA:

Votecount 2.19:
Haylen – 2 ( Suprise_Carcinogen , subgenius)
Andrew - 4 (curiouskarmadog , bgg1996 , Haylen , Regfan )
curiouskarmadog - 1 ( Andrew )
CryMeARiver - 2 (vollkan, Maxous)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver)
Anaylsis: Wow. Haylen wagon is being pulled apart here. Volkan and Maxous have both changed to CryMe, need to read into their reasoning but scum points to them both.

I usually hate VCA (Mainly because it ignores context), but Regfan has at least done it in a way that he has promised to look at reasoning, so my main gripe is suspended.

My reason for changing vote there (I switched in 847) was Haylen's claim in 845.

[havingfitz]

FYI all...I will be v/LA from later this evening until Wednesday.

[vollkan]

Okay, thanks to wine making me unfit to study, I have gone back and reread Maxous regarding the Haylen-Normal issue as promised.

ISO82: The thing most problematic here is:

Granted I am not familiar with the rules and requirememnts for this game but lynching somebody due to set-up speculation is not a good idea at all.(maybe open games but not normal ones).

Dismissing the whole thing as "setup speculation" strikes me absurd. There is a clear difference between speculating about the setup, and analysing whether a given claim confirms to the rules or not. Maybe hindsight is 20:20 here, but can't see any way that somebody genuinely looking at SB's argument would dismiss it so readily.

In short, it both fails to make sense, and had a clear scum motivation (defending Haylen). For this,

Maxous+5

She explained why her role can be in the game, why should she be outraged and surprised if she moderated a game that had a couple of these 'unusual' or whatever roles?

I don't have so much of a problem with this, even though I disagreed with it

The "confirmed to be mafia" thing came after her self-hammer, so I wouldn't call it scummy

[bgg1996]

Okay, thanks to wine making me unfit to study, I have gone back and reread Maxous regarding the Haylen-Normal issue as promised.

This wine... Is it in front of you?




More importantly,
Don't anybody think that there is something missing between the post he says its absurd to lynch her, and the one where he acknowledges that she was certainly mafia, and comments on how her epilogue sounded like a game he just finished? Like another post saying that he was surprised that the one he was defending was mafia?

[vollkan]

Okay, thanks to wine making me unfit to study, I have gone back and reread Maxous regarding the Haylen-Normal issue as promised.

This wine... Is it in front of you?

Yes (well, at a 45 degree angle forward and left, but close enough)

More importantly,
Don't anybody think that there is something missing between the post he says its absurd to lynch her, and the one where he acknowledges that she was certainly mafia, and comments on how her epilogue sounded like a game he just finished? Like another post saying that he was surprised that the one he was defending was mafia?

There's always an issue with expecting people to be contrite or apologetic, because metawise it so often leads to accusations of insincerity or backpedalling. But, that said, the initial starting point of dismissing it all as "setup speculation" makes it odd that he wouldn't at least acknowledge how completely wrong he was about it.

[Regfan]

I seen it once. A mafia had it though.

Does a weak doctor and a redirector clash somehow? I don't get it :/

I came across this. Maxous can you show me the link to the game where a mafia had the redirector ability?

[bgg1996]

Speaking of which
@Hinduragi: Did you happen to use your jailkeeping power last night?

Why do you want to know?

Thought it would slip over all of our heads? Well, it did, but I was looking at an iso of you, and mistook it for a new post, and read it. Why would a townie care about whether he used his power or not? Didn't we all go over why it's a bad idea to ask somebody whether they're a power role? Unless, of course, you're scum.

[Maxous]

Now, Max, why was it that you were so uninterested in noting how Haylen's claim clearly contradicted the rules of normal setups? You seemed to accept her explanations although they really didn't explain anything. Up to that point, you had been quite on the ball, but with Haylen, you seemed all too ready to accept her excuses.

I did'nt see it as 'clearly'.

Scott - A re-director is'nt normal, see? Vote Haylen
Regfan - Is'nt only one unusual role allowed? And the sledgehammer died. Vote Haylen
Bgg - I bet it's two. Vote Haylen
Haylen - Lalz, you are allowed 1-2 non-normal roles in the game. My game hads it and the reviewers were like 'okay'
Bgg - We already have 2 unusual roles. Possibly 3. (So the rule of only one unusual role did'nt apply then)
Haylen - Reviewers are more lenient it if it is one-shot. So it's allowed. *Shows a link to a game with an exception.*
Regfan - No that's a mini normal
Haylen - Normal is normal. Same thing
Regfan - No that was'nt a closed normal. Different rules.
Bgg - Mini 851 had roles that are unusual like cult leader. Unvote!
Regan - That was over a year and a half ago. The rules are more recent I think. I'll go look.
Scott -A year and a half ago they did'nt really check. So it probably does'nt count.
Subgenius - I find how she defended to be suspicious etc. Vote.
Maxous - Posted.

So what I got from this was Haylen's role is 'unusual' and you are only allowed 1 of them even though we had 2 already and therefore she is lying because exceptions are'nt made even though there was an exception in this game with having two of them.
As it turns out the rules are stricter than I first realised but I saw this as completely double guessing the mod and reviewers trying to push a lynch on her. Double guessing the mod is not what you base lynches on.

This was'nt made totally clear to me until afterwards

_______________________
_______________________

As for the next agenda

And yet he doesn't seem

the least bit

shocked or surprised when she self-lynches.

I was a bit surprised that she decided to self-lynch but I was'nt surprised that she was mafia.

I'm thinking maybe the mafia pairing is Haylen - Hinduragi (due to predeccessors actions of course). If there is a third member - I'm a bit stumped.

Haylen is 'her'

And with CMAR's claim it's not as if her claim is saving her from a lynch. I highly doubt both of them are town with such claims. I personally think it is feasible neither of them are but that's just me.

And it was very obvious she was mafia when she self-lynched.

Gonna split this up to avoid a massive wall.