Open 302: JUNGLE REPUB nope game over! Party time!

[Sloth]

Magna, I'd support a lynch on either Empking or Twisted.

Regfan, I think DK is noobscum. I don't think we can justify his scummy actions by throwing the noob card out there.

2 Scum suspects? I honestly don't know. Pretty much everyone has had a run-in with Empking, so I'd say (currently) the people who haven't, or haven't very much are probably scum-worthy.
2 Town choices? The people who have been targeted by Empking the most. They're only kind of high in Towniness, because one may be Mafia while the other is a Werewolf.

Why do you feel like Empking wouldn't have interactions with his buddies?

[cjdrum]

I never said that he

wouldn't

, rather that he was less likely to.

Read the end of my post, too. I'm fully aware of that possibility.

[Sloth]

I'm confused as to why you're warning the town about the possibility of Empking bussing right after you say that your townreads are the people he's been targeting. Seems highly contradictory.

[cjdrum]

I had to choose somebody, and they were the only reads I had. If I didn't mention that they were only weak, then I'll mention it here:

Those suspicions are only weak, but better than anyone else IMO.

PEdit: Read the second half of my Towniness paragraph.

They're only kind of high in Towniness, because one may be Mafia while the other is a Werewolf.

I guess I had to mention bussing to keep you happy, then?

[zMuffinMan]

@MOI,

So do you find him scummy or do you have a Town read on him? I’d like some clarity on this issue.

I don't find him scummy. I'm not confident he's town, but I don't find anything he's done scummy. If anything, I'm null leaning town on him. I don't like his style of questioning (and I'm baffled as to why he can't figure out why people are telling him he's asking loaded, leading questions), I think he's focusing too much on finding anything he can "scummy", but I don't think that necessarily makes him scum.

Why are you so sure he's scum? Could you try making a short concise post with the reasons you think he's scum? There's no need to quote everything he's ever done, just give me a synopsis. I understand you think he's bad, but why do you think his bad play is scummy?


@Wicked,

Does it bother anybody that zMuffinMan still hasn't given his opinion of Empking or neil? Because it doesn't look like he has.

There's 11 people other than myself in the game, I'm not sure why you're so concerned that I haven't given my opinion on Empking or neil when I don't think I've really given my opinion on anyone apart from TS at this point.

Why are you so interested in neil and Empking? Are you asking me to give you my reads here, or are you just slinging mud at me? Do you think I'm scummy?


@Hezlucky,

Why are you so keen on policy lynching? I can understand that you have suspicions about Empking, but it seems you don't actually think DK is scummy, just VI...

On that note, can you elaborate on your suspicions of Empking? What about his "poor responses, leading questions, arguing by repetitions" do you find scummy? Why do you think he hasn't been "scum hunting"? What anti-town behaviour are you talking about?


@Empking

Can s0omebody provide an example of where I've asked a leading question?

... While I don't personally have a problem with your questioning style, you do it pretty much every time you ask a question.

Am I right in thinking that you're refusing to answer that because you're scum?

The very last question you asked, in #267... Clearly a leading question.

"Why are you refusing to answer my question?" - not leading
"You're refusing to answer my question because you're scum, right?" - leading

A lot of your other questions have been both loaded, and leading.

You misquote people to shorten your post?

Loaded because you're implying I "misquote" people and leading for obvious reasons.

[Sloth]

So the only thing you've gathered from 12 pages is weak suspicions based on basically WIFOM?

[DeityKabuto]

HezLucky is scum, his large post. That is really Anti-Town, he is against quite a few people (suspects), and there can't be that many scum. I want him lynched as well as Empking.

[Empking]

Wicked: The first question is hardly a serious question.

Loaded because you're implying I "misquote" people and leading for obvious reasons.

If memory serves you said something like MOI wasn't scummy for his misquotation (which only seems to be on the person his vote is on) because you do the same. That was basically asking for clarification that you knew what you were claiming to do. I don't see what's so wrong with that.

[Caboose]

Good Buddha's Noodles!

I guess it's catchup time.

[Caboose]

Hm, my vote's on someone who's obviously not scum.

Let's fix that.

UNVOTE:

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: neil

[Caboose]

I'm pretty unenthused by this Empking wagon.

muffin or ts wagon is better.

VOTE: twistedspoon

[Umbrage]

Empking (5) - MagnaofIllusion, neil1113, DeityKabuto, cjdrum, HezLucky
Twistedspoon (3) - zMuffinMan, Wickedestjr, Caboose
DeityKabuto (2) - Sloth, Twistedspoon
neil1113 (2) - Regfan, Empking

[Twistedspoon]

so..

I think empking is less likely to be scum than kabuto right now :/

[MagnaofIllusion]

Caboose’s catchup post at 286 is horrible.

--

I think empking is less likely to be scum than kabuto right now :/

You know what all the cool kidz are doing? Giving reasons!

--

??? It seems odd that you would say he is pretty clearly scum, but at the same time a VI. What makes you think that Empking is a VI in this game?

I don’t see your confusion.

The VI label has nothing to do with alignment. You don’t have to be Town to be over-all incompetent.

--

If you don't mind, can you elaborate. I'm reading his play as over overzealous and paranoid town rather than anything else.

Why are you so sure he's scum? Could you try making a short concise post with the reasons you think he's scum? There's no need to quote everything he's ever done, just give me a synopsis. I understand you think he's bad, but why do you think his bad play is scummy?

Quick Summary on why I think Empking is scum (and likely Evil Sheep)

–

His reaction to pressure is suspect. He immediately tries to frame the (and this is conjecture but I think it holds water) weakest player on his early bandwagon as scum (Neil).

His scum-hunting consists of mostly applying, in a generally inaccurate manner, Wiktells (AtE, Misrep, Strawman) to those who apply pressure to him. He doesn’t look at all outside those who have found him to be scummy. Even paranoid Town is going to find suspects aside from those not pressing them.

His playstyle in regards to defense is classic Fate-style scum (yes, to some degree a meta argument) – drown the thread in posts, continually repeat questions about the same issue after they have been answered, and generally attempt to demonize those who attack you.

Focused strongly on semantics and wordplay as opposed to scum-motivation for play.

Slip regarding ‘2 scum’ when discussing why I must be a Werewolf.

General meta gut based on games where I have observed Empking as Town.

That’s the quick summary. I can address individual issue as necessary.

--

HezLucky is scum, his large post. That is really Anti-Town, he is against quite a few people (suspects), and

there can't be that many scum

. I want him lynched as well as Empking.

I’ve bolded the portion that shows DK is 100% certified VI. Clearly in a game with 5 scum suspecting many people isn’t a bad thing.

If come deadline a compromise lynch on DK forms I will join it. His play is so bad I can’t fathom being certain whether it is coming from Town or either Faction.

--

#8 MagnaofIllusion - almost as if he's telling the Seer what to do so that he can adjust his scum strategy
appropriately.

Elaborate. I’d like you to explain what possible strategy as scum I could have that would warrant giving good advice to the Seer.

Magna #146 / Wicked #147 - Given my slight suspicion of Sloth (not mentioned here) and stronger suspicion of MuffinMan,
if I were in Magna's shoes i would definitely have asked them something as well. Maybe Magna is not paying attention
to one of his buddies on purpose?

Hmmm … so the scum-tell here is that I’m not Hez. Noted.

Magna #169 - the second point. "Why is it his THIRD stop through a random game?" Give me a fucking break. That's not
evidence. These last few pages have made you look awful.

Funny. I think at this point you are just looking for things you think you can pass off as scum-tells.

Clearly the whole debate about his method of game selection showed that

1. He wasn’t honestly hunting but trying to find any game he could, even if it doesn’t make an apples to apples comparison.
2. He presented said game as his third in a contrived manner to boost his position, which failed when he was required to disclose why he looked at that game 3rd.

--

Pretty much everyone has had a run-in with Empking, so I'd say (currently) the people who haven't, or haven't very much are probably scum-worthy.

Ok … I want you to commit to who these players are. Give me two names who have interacted with him the least.

[Empking]

Everybody: One of MOI's points against me boild down to neil OMGUSing me. What do you think of that?

I think that accurately illustrates that MOI is scum.

Secondly, I have beren at L-2 for yonks. That seems to illustrate that there are a lot of scum on my wagon (so many that the remaining scum(s) don't want to be the ones to put me on L-1). So its only logical that my main suspects would be the individuals on my wagon.

His playstyle in regards to defense is classic Fate-style scum (yes, to some degree a meta argument)

This post also seems to have mistaken me for Fate (where else would the meta come into it?). I find this unlikely.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Secondly, I have beren at L-2 for yonks. That seems to illustrate that there are a lot of scum on my wagon (so many that the remaining scum(s) don't want to be the ones to put me on L-1). So its only logical that my main suspects would be the individuals on my wagon.

Actually quite the opposite. You hanging at L-2 means that there is very likely a subset of players (and under my theory 2 since I think you are Evil Sheep) who do not want you lynched. That explains, to my mind, the difficultly in moving you farther up the list.

So he's free to feel that OMGUSing isn't a scum-telll when he does it but is clearly indicative of scum when he claims Neil did it. Inconsistently applied standards? You are soaking in it!

This post also seems to have mistaken me for Fate (where else would the meta come into it?). I find this unlikely.

If you had reading comprehension skills beyond that of the average fallen log you would understand that I am ascribing a scummy style of defense (made unfortunately famous by Fate) to your play.

[Empking]

Secondly, I have beren at L-2 for yonks. That seems to illustrate that there are a lot of scum on my wagon (so many that the remaining scum(s) don't want to be the ones to put me on L-1). So its only logical that my main suspects would be the individuals on my wagon.

Actually quite the opposite. You hanging at L-2 means that there is very likely a subset of players (and under my theory 2 since I think you are Evil Sheep) who do not want you lynched. That explains, to my mind, the difficultly in moving you farther up the list.

You're using the fact that I'm mainly looking at the people on my bandwagon as a reason I'm scum. You're ignoring the fact that as town my wagon is populated by scum because you're calling me scum. On this point your reasoning for thinking I'm scum is because I'm scum. Its not a serious worthy point.

So he's free to feel that OMGUSing isn't a scum-telll when he does it but is clearly indicative of scum when he claims Neil did it. Inconsistently applied standards? You are soaking in it!

When did I call neiel scum for performing the act known as OMGUS?

This post also seems to have mistaken me for Fate (where else would the meta come into it?). I find this unlikely.

If you had reading comprehension skills beyond that of the average fallen log you would understand that I am ascribing a scummy style of defense (made unfortunately famous by Fate) to your play.

So how is it a meta point, again?

[MagnaofIllusion]

You're using the fact that I'm mainly looking at the people on my bandwagon as a reason I'm scum. You're ignoring the fact that as town my wagon is populated by scum because you're calling me scum. On this point your reasoning for thinking I'm scum is because I'm scum. Its not a serious worthy point.

It’s just one factor. I’m not ‘ignoring the fact that you are Town’ because it isn’t a fact. Ask each player here and 100% will tell you they are Town.

Your play reads as scummy. Your premise here is that your wagon is ‘filled with scum’. There are 5 players on that wagon. Unless 100% of scum are on your wagon that means at least one scum isn’t there, if not more. I'll not even get into the ludicrous thought process whereby significant amounts of 'scum' in the game conspire to wagon you. Yet you haven’t looked outside that group that ‘suspects’ to find scum. Your thought process is not Town, IMO.

When did I call neiel scum for performing the act known as OMGUS?

Everyone: What alignment is of afraid 1 (one) vote that they wagon the largest wagon and try and discredit the person voting them?

From beginning of the game. You are clearly inferring that Neil is scummy for jumping on your wagon based on your sole vote. That’s OMGUS. You just avoided actually using the direct phrase.

So how is it a meta point, again?

It’s a general meta point about a particular site popular reaction of scum to pressure.

This is a perfect example of why I think he’s scum. He’s not even bothering to say my assertions about his play aren’t accurate. Instead he first tries to deflect by saying “He mistook me for Fate” and then wants to quibble about whether it is meta or not.

[Empking]

It’s just one factor. I’m not ‘ignoring the fact that you are Town’ because it isn’t a fact. Ask each player here and 100% will tell you they are Town.

See, after looking at this post, I don't buy the argument that I'm the one grasping at technicalities.

You're using the fact that I'm mainly looking at the people on my bandwagon as a reason I'm scum. You're ignoring the fact that if I am town my wagon is populated by scum because you're calling me scum. On this point your reasoning for thinking I'm scum is because I'm scum. Its not a serious worthy point.

Do you agree or disagree with my assertion that if there wasn't a reasonbly large amount of scum parked on my wagon then a scumbag would have put me on L-1 by now?
'

From beginning of the game. You are clearly inferring that Neil is scummy for jumping on your wagon based on your sole vote. That’s OMGUS. You just avoided actually using the direct phrase.

See this clearly isn't what you think. You're well aware that OMGUS is when somebody votes you for the sole reason that you voted them. I made it perfectly clear that I felt the reason why neil voted me was because
1. I was the biggest wagon.
2. Neil was afraid of my vote.
Neither of those two reasons is OMGUS.

This is a perfect example of why I think he’s scum. He’s not even bothering to say my assertions about his play aren’t accurate. Instead he first tries to deflect by saying “He mistook me for Fate” and then wants to quibble about whether it is meta or not.

Whether your accusations are true or not is just a metter of looking at my iso. Whether you're just trying to put persuasive language in your case because you have no interest in actually scumhunting is not such a simple matter.

[neil1113]

@Empking

Can s0omebody provide an example of where I've asked a leading question?

... While I don't personally have a problem with your questioning style, you do it pretty much every time you ask a question.

So, you're saying that asking leading questions aren't scum-motivated techniques, so you don't have a problem with them?

HezLucky is scum, his large post. That is really Anti-Town, he is against quite a few people (suspects), and there can't be that many scum. I want him lynched as well as Empking.

I find this reasoning less then satisfactory. Can you explain why a large post is Anti-Town, and why not trusting EVERYONE in the game is scummy?

See this clearly isn't what you think. You're well aware that OMGUS is when somebody votes you for the sole reason that you voted them. I made it perfectly clear that I felt the reason why neil voted me was because
1. I was the biggest wagon.
2. Neil was afraid of my vote.
Neither of those two reasons is OMGUS.

Except 1. You were hardly a wagon at that time, let alone continuously describing yourself with such large adjectives like "biggest" and "largest." I find those terms leading others to assume something about your wagon that wasn't necessarily true. And 2. I was NOT afraid of your vote. I already explained why NOBODY should be afraid of your vote in this game, so you'd turn around and accuse ME of being afraid of it? Lol.

Also, you asked for proof about asking leading questions, and then stated afterwards that everyone has "shut up" when you asked them for proof. I have you 5 examples of proof. You just don't man up to your own lacks. By the way, happy birthday.

[DeityKabuto]

@Twistedspoon

, you are avoiding my questions on Post #257. You've posted several times after I had questioned you, yet you haven't replied. That is showing me that you are too lazy to read everything on this thread, which makes you look scum. Especially, since you haven't been much of a help to the towns, and you just started posting again.

*Note: For all of those wondering why Empking is sort of on a bandwagon, please read the conversation between Empking and I, and Empking and Niel, he really appears scummy. In some posts he acts like he doesn't care, and fails to answer what you're asking, and in others he just makes himself look even the more scummy.

[quote=neil1113]I find this reasoning less then satisfactory. Can you explain why a large post is Anti-Town, and why not trusting EVERYONE in the game is scummy?[/quote]

Hey... hey now. I said nothing about trust in that post. I said it just appears kind of Anti-Town to me that you have a whole lost of people you appear to be scum. Also how, some of the people listed haven't done anything to appear scummy imho. HezLucky is a lurker, he really hasn't contributed any or tried to scumhunt. So Really Idgaf much about his opinion, you can't come up after a lot has happened in Day 1 and act like everyone will trust you and you will be seen as a Townie. Sorry, but that's just how I see it.

[Empking]

See this clearly isn't what you think. You're well aware that OMGUS is when somebody votes you for the sole reason that you voted them. I made it perfectly clear that I felt the reason why neil voted me was because
1. I was the biggest wagon.
2. Neil was afraid of my vote.
Neither of those two reasons is OMGUS.

Except 1. You were hardly a wagon at that time, let alone continuously describing yourself with such large adjectives like "biggest" and "largest.

Was I the largest wagon? Yes or no.

And 2. I was NOT afraid of your vote.

And we can just take your word for it?

Also, you asked for proof about asking leading questions, and then stated afterwards that everyone has "shut up" when you asked them for proof. I have you 5 examples of proof. You just don't man up to your own lacks. By the way, happy birthday.

Scumday.

Can you quote the examples for me? (Orv tell me which post of your's it was?)

[neil1113]

Was I the

largest

wagon with one more vote then the other wagon? Yes or no.

Yes.

And we can just take your word for it?

Nope, we can take your meta for it.

Scumday.

Can you quote the examples for me? (Orv tell me which post of your's it was?)

I said happy birthday, and you said scumday? Did you just admit you're scum?

And no, I won't requote to you the examples. You can ISO me if you really care, but I'm not going to go back and forth with you again. Twice now you've promised it would be your "last post of the day" yet you're still insisting with your petty, pointless, scum-filled, ridiculous posts that push people into stupid little arguments when there is no need.

[Empking]

Was I the

largest

wagon with one more vote then the other wagon? Yes or no.

Yes.

Was I the largest wagon? Y/N?

Scumday.

Can you quote the examples for me? (Orv tell me which post of your's it was?)

I said happy birthday, and you said scumday? Did you just admit you're scum?

Is this a joke?

And no, I won't requote to you the examples. You can ISO me if you really care, but I'm not going to go back and forth with you again. Twice now you've promised it would be your "last post of the day"

Yes.

On previous days.

yet you're still insisting with your petty, pointless, scum-filled, ridiculous posts that push people into stupid little arguments when there is no need.

How are they scum filled?