Charlie the Unicorn Mafia (GAME OVER)

[tanstalas]

@Umbrage - What do you think of Zod, what are your thoughts on him, more specifically what do you think of him popping in every once in awhile just to say something? What would you say about his activity or lack thereof thus far into the game?

Would you say that he has contributed to the game to move it forward? You cite my 'lack of scumhunting' as a reason you vote for me. I'd argue he has done the least amount of anyone, yet your vote is on RC - and while I do not agree with his 'alliance' talk he has contributed more to the game than Zod, would you not agree?

[Umbrage]

I find the recent drop in his activity suspicious, but I don't see how his play has been lagging. He doesn't make text walls, which I regard as a pro-town attribute.

[tanstalas]

So text walls in your opinion are anti-town? So - I guess you would be guilty of that in your ISO-27?

You still didn't answer me in regards to if he has contributed to move the game forward. Looking at his ISO - I can't see anything in any of his posts that has moved the game forward. I also notice that you have failed to give me your opinion on if he or RC has contributed less this game.

If you are saying wall's of text are anti-town, then you must think pretty much everyone in this game is scum.

[Doombunny9]

Maybe he's just busy? I don't see why this is so monumental. If RC has a good case, Charlie won't be able to defend against it well in any time.

He said that "I'd rather stay mum about it until more people post." Not "I'm busy", not "I can't do this right now", just putting it off while waiting for others to post. Can you see why a townie would do this because I sure can't, even more so since he didn't do it in his latest post either.

Ha.

Hahaha.

Hahahahahaha.

This is the best defense ever! I am now 100% convinced you are town!

I find the recent drop in his activity suspicious, but I don't see how his play has been lagging. He doesn't make text walls, which I regard as a pro-town attribute.

Can you elaborate on this? How does no text walls=town? What makes town more unlikely to post walls than scum do?

[Umbrage]

So text walls in your opinion are anti-town? So - I guess you would be guilty of that in your ISO-27?

You still didn't answer me in regards to if he has contributed to move the game forward. Looking at his ISO - I can't see anything in any of his posts that has moved the game forward. I also notice that you have failed to give me your opinion on if he or RC has contributed less this game.

If you are saying wall's of text are anti-town, then you must think pretty much everyone in this game is scum.

Yep. I try to avoid it, but with all the misrepresentation and miscommunication going on, I felt I needed to take a moment to make myself perfectly understood.

RC's really the worst offender. Some people are just verbose, but half of his posts are wasted space, and I've never seen him post like that. It's usually straight to the point. A lot of posts, but short ones.

[Umbrage]

Just to be clear, it's not Zod's small posts that make me think he's town. It's that where you may see anti-town lurking, I see pro-town brevity.

But he should be saying this himself, ZOD GIT IN HERE!

[Hiraki]

Me?

No, Google Translator.

With Rape and Violacion.

He said that "I'd rather stay mum about it until more people post." Not "I'm busy", not "I can't do this right now", just putting it off while waiting for others to post. Can you see why a townie would do this because I sure can't, even more so since he didn't do it in his latest post either.

You have heard of this cool thing about lying?

Plus what's so bad about it?

This is the best defense ever! I am now 100% convinced you are town!

I'm really not striving to make one person think I'm town. Including for such pitiful reasons.

[Doombunny9]

You have heard of this cool thing about lying?

Why yes I have and if he is lying, well, that just makes it even worse. I don't think I understand the point you're trying to make.

Plus what's so bad about it?

He's blatantly just ignoring a case on him with the appearance that he has a really good defense but he just doesn't want to share it (Kind of like you and your laughing just cause you don't want to post a real defense ). It allows scum to try and just walk away from an argument unscathed and with little attention. He may also have been waiting for someone else to respond to the post to try and leech of of what they said.

@Umbrage- I don't think you've really answered our questions to our fullest. Why would a townie be less likely to post a wall than scum? Also, what is wrong with a wall in general? I can see how large walls with no point to them are scummy but what about walls that do contain good content?

[Stefunny]

Are you only voting RC due to him not talking?

I think NS was asking who THIS referred to. Were you referring to NS' vote on RC? Or someone else's?

[ReaperCharlie]

RC's really the worst offender. Some people are just verbose, but half of his posts are wasted space, and I've never seen him post like that. It's usually straight to the point. A lot of posts, but short ones.

Apparently you've never played Mafia with me before.

I should be back tomorrow some time.

[Nobody Special]

RAPE.

VIOLACION = RAPE.

OH GOOGLE TRANSLATOR.

Are you only voting RC due to him not talking?

Okay, yeah, Stefunny got it right. But I'm not shunning RC right now; I'm shunning Umbrage (AS YOU ALL SHOULD BE).

This frigging game.

Also, RC, your new avatar makes me irrationally angry. Don't know why.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, RC, your new avatar makes me irrationally angry. Don't know why.

Walking to Metropolis
As fast as I can

You can't stop me
I'm the G-D SUPERMAN

And when I get there
thru fog, wind and rain

You bet your sorry butt
that I'll be saving Lois Lane

Don't ever try to stop me
Cause my patience is thin

But I know that I must face
that baldy Luthor again

You know I only wrote this
out of pure and simple spite

But I better watch out:
You might have Kryptonite

So I guess I'll go back home
to my adoring fans

Why do they love me?
cuz I'm the G-D SUPERMAN

~ fin

[Zodiark13]

Sorry guys, falling behind a little bit. I myself am fairly concise, in fact its a bit of a weakness, as I always struggled with 'Write 1000 words on' essays in high school, always completing them in about 700 and fitting lots of information in that much. I don't do text walls so much as quote walls. And no, text walls, or lack thereof, is a null tell, so stop trying to make it otherwise tans.

If anyone has any points they want addressed, please bring them up.

Also, I may as well have my say on the alliance proposal. I'm against it, because the person suggesting it has to be 110% that no one on the alliance is scum(ignoring the possibility that the proposer is scum himself), and, at the end of the day, it means that only one person is playing the game. I don't play mafia just to have one person decide how the game ends from the very start of the game.

[Umbrage]

Why would a townie be less likely to post a wall than scum? Also, what is wrong with a wall in general? I can see how large walls with no point to them are scummy but what about walls that do contain good content?

Everybody has to make walls occasionally. That's just how the game works. But when every other post is bigger than my screen, something's up. When someone POSTS A SUPERMAN POEM, something is up. A lot of people find it hard to keep up with these posts.

Evidence:

Sorry guys, falling behind a little bit. I myself am fairly concise...

Let's go to the ISO.

RC made a nice case on Charlie, but then started all the talk about the alliance. It would've gone on longer if I hadn't called an end to it, triggering some nasty OMGUS from RC.

Then we have some short posts, pretty much just responding to what other people have said. Then another huge post, a good part of which is unneeded. Did he really have quote something just to go "THIS LOL"? And this post (ISO #31) is mostly just responding to what other people have said, complete with huge quotes, with a huge scumlist at the bottom. The last line is:

(either of those last two can die today, I have no huge preference either way)

Really? This is all you have so far? I can understand Pulindar or Stefunny not having any big lead suspects, but you've been among the most active in the game. Is this really all you have to show for it? An OMGUS suspicion on me and the guy who's made two real posts so far?

This is when I start to view RC as scummy, not just an annoyance. Suddenly I become a jester. Anything I write, RC just goes LOLjester and hopes nobody will look twice.

CONCLUSION: Scummyscumscum.

Apparently you've never played Mafia with me before.

I should be back tomorrow some time.

So I can't know your posting style because I've never played with you before? Talking with you endlessly in GD and other places doesn't count for anything?

OK.

Then why were you so sure I was a jester? You don't know my usual play.

If I can't read you, how can you read me?

[Rhinox]

Also, if he was town who thought it was a gambit, then speaking out against the idea actually undermines the effectiveness of the gambit. This also makes it seem like Hiraki was just looking for town points in his response.

Speaking out against it was the point of RC's "gambit". If you propose something that is Anti-Town and people agree with it, then the people that agree with it have been caught by your gambit. hurr durr

No... it wasn't a gambit and there isn't anything inherantly anti-town about the alliance idea.

But assuming it was a gambit like you thought, then if a scum hears townies speaking out against something, then the scum is going to be less likely to get caught by the gambit because they are being told what the town thinks about it. Thus, you were undermining any potential benefit of the gambit. I think you are scum who thought you could nab town points by speaking out against the alliance idea because

you thought

it was a gambit, not because you are town that thinks the alliance is a bad idea.

@ Rhinox #163: I still think it's null.

I have tried scumhunting before based on the nuances of people's word choices (i.e. the addition or subtraction of a modifier such as "merely"), and believe me. It's really, REALLY hard to get anyone to believe a case like that.

I am sensing genuine townie rage from you, which is why I'm taking the time to explain this. But I also think you're wasting your time focusing on that issue.

No rage here. Also, you have it backwards. I'm not scumhunting based on word choice, I was pointing out Hiraki's implication against me was a misrep. If you think its a word choice semantic thing, than Hiraki needs to explain what he meant by the comment. Which he already did in #140, telling me that my interpretation of the addition of the word merely implied exactly what I said, and it is a misrep.

That said, the issue of "HAY YOU'RE SCUM FOR FALLING FOR THE ALLIANCE GAMBIT" is worth looking into as it's far more dubious/interesting than MerelyGate. I was very on that, and still am. It sounded more like someone (whether town or scum) who wasn't paying any attention whatsoever to context, rather than someone who was deliberately gambiting or counter-gambiting (or counter-counter-gambiting, etc.)

Maybe I'm projecting a little, but when I'm town, and I think someone is town gambitting, I stay mum on it until the gambit plays out. Hiraki didn't do that, he undermined it. The only reason Hiraki (or any other town player) had to speak out against your alliance idea if he is town is if he thought you were serious and genuinely disagreed with the idea. The fact that he assumed you were gambitting and spoke out against it anyways tells me he wasn't interested in actually catching scum by the "gambit" (why would scum do the scummy side of the gambit it townies are speaking out against it?) but rather by nabbing town points for being on what he thought was the town side of the "gambit".

@ Rhinox: What sense would it make if Hiraki spoke on behalf of the alliance and then when someone else does the same thing that screams "mafia"? What would be the correct way to speak of the alliance in your opinion, to Hiraki?

I think I addressed this above.

[ReaperCharlie]

Not gonna be able to post until later today.

[Charlie]

You people unhappy that I've shunned post #65?
Hopefully this would prove that I've been sincere.

So you are completely writing off kryptinen as scum just because he/she has a PR? haaaaa dumb. This kind of pigeonholing is what makes people pay in the end. I wrote off Parama as scum in POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA because of this post, and I MYSELF voted wrong twice in a 6-1 endgame after correctly nailing the other two scum. I had confirmational bias (town) on Parama and I let it blind me.

The fact that you're doing this on Day 1, on PAGE THREE makes me extremely suspicious of you because who as town would write somebody off this early.

Unvote; Vote: Charlie. This is a serious vote.

1) Saying "haaaaa dumb" isn't a serious response.
2) Comparison based on your experience, a very specific one, is overgeneralizing. The question to ask is: is what you're comparing actually on the same level? No, it's too subjective and biased towards your opinion.
3) Taking the matter so seriously and so early... is not giving a chance to hear the other side out. From this I can conclude your subsequent posting will contain obnoxious behaviour, which I find is a barrier to effective communication and discussion. Can you prove me wrong now, after 10 pages?

Yeah either that or the mafia have a fakeclaim of one of the blue or pink unicorns (the spanish speakers). Which makes sense from a modding standpoint, because they are the main characters except for Charlie. I would expect them to either be that, or masons. But I'm 200% sure they're in the game.

Also, the "we have our differences, fine" is a classic "ok, let's agree to disagree" that I see from scum who want to pacify a townie when it turns out their stance was unpopular. I almost NEVER see townies make any kind of pacification statements like this.

Rhinox is probtown due to #61. I can't see scum posting that. Scum would be more likely to hope that part went unnoticed and would want to pigeonhole things and try to create false subconscious leanings within people based on fallacies like "nobody with a PR could be scum".

@ tanstalas's #53: I have had this conversation before (posts #6, 11, 13, 14, 18), and I will have it again here. If Hiraki was scum and so was I, then why wouldn't we sit there and try to stretch it out for as long as possible. Me trying to start the game as soon as possible should make you think the exact opposite of "reaper is scum".

Also, the caveat to this is, like Magua says in post #13 of the topic linked above, if scum have daytalk. He's a fan of daytalking scum, and I, too, am a huge proponent.

1) Assumptions, assumptions. Good to hear, but you speak of them as though as if you're right and everybody else is wrong (OK, or their opinions don't matter). The point it, for you the world revolves around you. This isn't great.
2) I give you a facepalm in regard to your second paragraph. You're picking an argument just for the sake of arguing.
3) I find your words long and unconvincing.
4) WIFOM. And confusing
5) Nothing to say.

------------

Charlie, why do you feel so strongly that, in a game where it's specifically stated that we should expect the unexpected, you can write off anything as "usual"?

The problem with this question you ask is... it's worded in such a way that I can't answer it. Look, if we can't make

some

basic assumptions, such as it's common that Town members are given post restrictions, then life would be difficult. Granted, we have our own perceptions and I've stated mine, so what's yours? This post restricted player can go either way in terms of alignment?

------------

Wagon on ReaperCharlie, please.
His wallposting may be partly due to the fact that he:
1) Is usually like that
2) Excited about this game from the start, as evidenced by his alliance plan and massively emotional posts

And thus is null, but there is a limit. He should realize that, if he were Town, he should at the very least give some leeway into co-operating with other players. I've seen none of this and the lack of this core attribute is a strong scumtell in my book.

[Nobody Special]

Charlie, why do you feel so strongly that, in a game where it's specifically stated that we should expect the unexpected, you can write off anything as "usual"?

The problem with this question you ask is... it's worded in such a way that I can't answer it. Look, if we can't make

some

basic assumptions, such as it's common that Town members are given post restrictions, then life would be difficult. Granted, we have our own perceptions and I've stated mine, so what's yours? This post restricted player can go either way in terms of alignment?

While I do acknowledge that it is more likely that town will have a PR than scum, I cannot completely write off the

possibility

that scum

could

have a PR. And you seemed to be saying that scum will Never, Absolutely Not, No Way EVER have a post restriction.

That

is what I was asking you about. I don't feel we have the room to make any assumptions in this game.

[Hiraki]

You don't think 5~ pages is enough for a gambit to play out? Especially when everyone comments on it?

Not only that, you just said I was scum for disagreeing with the gambit idea, even though it was pro-town. My points have finely defined that the alliance idea was scummy. Did you just choose to ignore them?

[ReaperCharlie]

Me?

No, Google Translator.

With Rape and Violacion.

He said that "I'd rather stay mum about it until more people post." Not "I'm busy", not "I can't do this right now", just putting it off while waiting for others to post. Can you see why a townie would do this because I sure can't, even more so since he didn't do it in his latest post either.

You have heard of this cool thing about lying?

Plus what's so bad about it?

This is the best defense ever! I am now 100% convinced you are town!

I'm really not striving to make one person think I'm town. Including for such pitiful reasons.

I don't remember saying any of that...

[tanstalas]

This is the best defense ever! I am now 100% convinced you are town!

I'm really not striving to make one person think I'm town. Including for such pitiful reasons.

I don't remember saying any of that...

Doombunny actually said the last quote if I remember correctly... anyhow..

Sorry guys, falling behind a little bit. I myself am fairly concise, in fact its a bit of a weakness, as I always struggled with 'Write 1000 words on' essays in high school, always completing them in about 700 and fitting lots of information in that much. I don't do text walls so much as quote walls.

And no, text walls, or lack thereof, is a null tell, so stop trying to make it otherwise tans

.

If anyone has any points they want addressed, please bring them up.

Also, I may as well have my say on the alliance proposal. I'm against it, because the person suggesting it has to be 110% that no one on the alliance is scum(ignoring the possibility that the proposer is scum himself), and, at the end of the day, it means that only one person is playing the game. I don't play mafia just to have one person decide how the game ends from the very start of the game.

First bolded part: I didn't say anything in regards to text walls being anti or pro town. That was your scumbuddy Umbrage that brought that up. So let's see. You are a lurker AND a skimmer.

Yeah I stand by my previous assessment that you or Umbrage need rope. Next on that list would be Charlie (for obvious reasons given by others) or RC - his whole "DONT VOTE UMBRAGE he is a Jester" when the Umbrage wagon started picking up steam irks me, kind of like trying to derail the train. Though I am willing to lynch Zod today, given that the mafia SHOULD take out Umbrage in the case he is a jester (or a vig can if we have one)

You also contradict yourself in this post saying that you can fit 'lots' of information into small posts. I see no information in this post of yours.

First paragraph you misrep
Second paragraph (sentence) you ask

us

to ask

you

questions. It's hard to do since you hardly ever post, and when you do it is non-commital fluff.
Third paragraph you give your thoughts on an alliance, and miss the point of what RC was trying to say completely, but I attribute that to your skimming.

Nowhere do I see any sort of scumhunting of other people. You seem very content to sit on the fence and watch other people talk, while just making a post every day or so so as to not get prodded.


@Zod:

1.Why do you say that it would just be one person playing the game if there were an alliance. What did RC say that gave you that assumption?
2.Can you restate your case on me, as I am confused, you said I jumped on you for a flimsy reason in post 49?
3.So you agree it is a reason, no matter if it is 'flimsy' or not, if you see a slight scum tell early in a game, would you not persue it? Why or why not?
4.You also mentioned you can only think of about 7 roles in this game, please list them. You can ignore the Charlie, Pink and Blue as we all know they are probably in this game. However, knowing what my role is I can assure you that Haylen would have no problems coming up with additional roles. People that have a role similar to mine will know what I mean.
5.In your ISO-6 you mention questions you posed to me. Since Umbrage cannot tell me what questions you asked me, perhaps you can enlighten me?

[Hiraki]

Yeah I messed up quote tags. I know who said what though, so don't worry.

[tanstalas]

Yeah I messed up quote tags. I know who said what though, so don't worry.

But you inferred that it was RC who said that, and it was actually Doom, so maybe you should make it clear you are waiting for Doom to respond to your questions, and not RC?

If this was a gambit to see if Doom and/or RC actually read posts, I apologize. Misrepping people irks me, even when it isn't me

[Hiraki]

Yeah I messed up quote tags. I know who said what though, so don't worry.

But you inferred that it was RC who said that, and it was actually Doom, so maybe you should make it clear you are waiting for Doom to respond to your questions, and not RC?

If this was a gambit to see if Doom and/or RC actually read posts, I apologize. Misrepping people irks me, even when it isn't me

I don't really care if Doom responds to that, and most of the things on my wall did not require explanations.

So, no.

[Doombunny9]

If anyone has any points they want addressed, please bring them up.

In your ISO #7 you say that you think Tans is scummy for "appealing to the mod and threatening to rage quit". My question was, how is this scummy, why scum are more likely to do this than town, and how does this help scum?

@Charlie- I believe you've missed my other question. In your post before this you said your vote on RC was kostly due to gut. Who are your top two scumreads and why are they not as good of a vote as RC?

Actually, I asked the same question to NS and he ignored it too.

Since Tans drew it to my attention...

I'm really not striving to make one person think I'm town. Including for such pitiful reasons.

This doesn't really matter to me either. What DOES matter is that you threw out the thingy I made on you with no defense to be seen which signals my scum-alarms.