Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[Faraday]

I have a bit of a hard time believing faraday's claim, but given the weirdness of the other roles in this game I don't see it to be completely unreasonable. The only reason I'm not convinced is because of how impossible it would be to prove such a claim through anyone else's actions. Seems like a very safe claim for scum...

I'm also questioning why your one stop would still remain because it strikes me odd that P.T. would not have used his ability on night two. I know that one-shot PR's typically don't want to hold out until there aren't many players left just because of the unlikeliness of them actually getting to use their ability.

And going along with the typical night action of scum killing someone completely irrelevant to scum also kind of clears fitz in my eyes.

vote: faraday

You're basically making up crap reasons to vote for me here, when you should just say 'I know I'm not scum, there's something fucked up here'.

So let's elaborate.

I'm townish yesterday. A claim which you say makes sense turns me into scum? How does this MAKE ANY SENSE IN ANY WORLD?

[Faraday]

.
1) You think I'm a weak enough player that I won't be able to convince the town to lynch you, therefore rendering my NK unnecessary (sad face)

See: Pine Wagon. I also don't think you're a weak player, don't say that. Eh, why do people I think are good always run themselves down, it's annoying.

2) You know that your accent has an unexplainable power over me and you can use it to bend my will to yours

Cept if that was the case you'd not have opened the day voting me. But...um well..>_> Imma use this knowledge for the future.

3) You know that I don't trust myself enough and could pretty easily be talked out of pursuing my scum reads

I actually don't know this, i don't remember you being particularly prone to changing your mind on a whim.

4) This game wouldn't be nearly as fun for you if I wasn't in it. (Who's digging for compliments now?)

Uh, I'd hate nightkilling you as scum. You're right. I would still do it, I play to win Setael, I'd send you a voice clip apology post game, but yeah, i'd kill you.

Isn't it a rule that there can only be one non-normal role in this type of mini? And aren't neighborizers and gunsmiths both non-normal roles? Please don't make me read the wiki.

Both are normal.

I think a massclaim might be good at this point, though it makes me nervous since Faraday suggested it.

[/quote]
THIS IS GONNA BE A FUN DAY...(massclaim is standard at mylo..you know this)

The rest of the stuff is idk? I can't explain why the role wasn't used. Are you just gonna ignore what I say today cos faraday said it? I mean..if you're like that about massclaim ...uh. yeah.

[Faraday]

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie, Sane Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia Framer, Mafia-aligned versions of above roles

OH NO FARADAY QUOTED THE WIKI I'LL HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK HE'S NOT LYING SCUM.

[Setael]

I can't lynch Faraday. I like him too much.

Someone else do it!

[Faraday]

I can't lynch Faraday. I like him too much.

Someone else do it!

Do you enjoy torturing me? Can you at least consider what I'm saying?

(also you're point about me not catching cecily scum is flattering but er...I'm not that good of a scumhunter, I hate to break it to you (I really do, I mean you seem to think i'm better than I am :p ) and also, I clear people all the time based on 1 post and am confident in my reads. I'm not going to defend myself against that except to say it's a bad scum strategy to narrow down your mislynch options to like 2 people. What if one of them is a pr that can prove itself? I'd be boned.

[Faraday]

Do you have any questions? Feel free to ask the mod (also gunsmith and vig has nice parity, but I'm biased ;_;) about how a gunsmith works? I'm frustrated as it feels like you're not listening to me here no matter what I say, and it's not even my fault but the guy I replaced.

[havingfitz]

Cecily...it looks like the only reason you think Faraday is scum is because you don't believe his claim. But you don't think his claim is unreasonable. WTF? Also...you really haven't focused on the PT/Faraday slot....you have expressed some suspicion at times but nothing committed. Very flipfloppish IMO on that player slot.

You did however think I was scum with chkflp. Has that opinion changed? It just seems odd to me that you have susapected me for much of this game and yet you now want to clear me for a rationale I do not follow. Can you elaborate on why you think I am clear? It appears to be based on NK speculation and not because of the alledged gunsmith result from Faraday (which you obviously don't believe based on your vote).

[Cecily]

The reason I thought fitz was scum before was because of how he attacked me after I attacked chk and that would only still apply if chk had been scum. The reason I think fitz is town at this point is because of the NK on nacho. Nacho pushed hard for a fitz lynch towards the end and I'd be damned if scum fitz decided it was a good idea to take him out. It just seems like too obvious of a kill for it to be likely.

I wrote my last post in order of what I was thinking, and initially a claim such as his is supposed to be believable, that's why it's such a safe scum claim. As I continued on I realized that it would be very bizarre indeed for P.T. to have not used up that ability during nights one or two. Before faraday replaced in I did call the P.T. spot scummy, but I couldn't quite place my finger on it. And now I'm still kind of in that boat of not being able to give a solid reason for it, but so far his play has jumped out as the most scummy.

I'm not used to playing with him but faraday's first day of play with us seemed relatively townish and relaxed. Today he seems almost jumpy. I could just be making that part up but his writing style does seem a tad more tense than yesterday. Which would make me question why, and the only thing I can think of is that he's lying about his claim.

[Faraday]

Today is MYLO of course I'm fucking nervous, there's the posibillity I could be mislynched and lose the game.

Cecily:

From a town perspective I'd have expected you to looked at both posibillities, i.e. faraday lying and faraday telling the truth (which from your POV makes MIKE almost confirmed scum and means there's another scum out there) but you don't even seem to consider the latter at all. I don't see a town process coming through like that at all.

[Setael]

@Cecily - Your reason for clearing fitz is the worst I've ever heard. First, scum are very motivated to get rid of the players pushing hard for their lynches, and they get away with it because townies often use the WIFOM reasoning you're giving. It's a terrible, weak reason and is not enough to clear a player you had a scum read on.

Everything you say about Faraday is also really off.

And now I'm still kind of in that boat of not being able to give a solid reason for it, but so far his play has jumped out as the most scummy.

And yet this is entirely based on gut? Are you saying his play is the most scummy JUST today or are you talking about the whole game? What were your reads yesterday, and have they changed?

(also you're point about me not catching cecily scum is flattering but er...I'm not that good of a scumhunter, I hate to break it to you (I really do, I mean you seem to think i'm better than I am :p ) and also, I clear people all the time based on 1 post and am confident in my reads. I'm not going to defend myself against that except to say it's a bad scum strategy to narrow down your mislynch options to like 2 people. What if one of them is a pr that can prove itself? I'd be boned.

I'm not saying that you, as town, would have to replace in and nail all the scum, but rather the fact that all you said is "Cecily is OK" and then you still didn't comment on her once her wagon got stronger, except to subtly defend her against my case. You did admit that it was scummy how much she wanted credit for Pine's wagon, but dropped it there. imo your chkflip case wasn't strong enough to merit you dismissing Cecily as possible scum yesterday.

The rest of the stuff is idk? I can't explain why the role wasn't used. Are you just gonna ignore what I say today cos faraday said it? I mean..if you're like that about massclaim ...uh. yeah.

I'm not ignoring what you're saying, but it's true that I think you're scum so I see most of what you say as... stuff scum would say, and it doesn't change my read on you. Cecily's play is terrible. She's an easy target if she's town (especially with her wagon yesterday) and she's a perfect bus if she's scum.

Question. How many times have you fake claimed a PR as scum?

[Faraday]

Does fakeclaiming Serial Killer count? >_>

If so then, Karma Mafia (large theme by patrick) I claimed SK to avoid being lynched (it worked, lolol and we won)
and most recently Lost Season 4 where I fakeclaimed to avoid being lynched are the only ones I remember off the top of my head. I assume you don't mean stuff like claiming Vanilla right?

I'll see if I can think of more but I know it's been rare considering the sheer amount of times I was scum in my early games here. I've never actually been lynched as scum outside of a newbie where it was cos of a cop guilty. (pretty proud of that )

I'm not saying that you, as town, would have to replace in and nail all the scum, but rather the fact that all you said is "Cecily is OK" and then you still didn't comment on her once her wagon got stronger, except to subtly defend her against my case. You did admit that it was scummy how much she wanted credit for Pine's wagon, but dropped it there. imo your chkflip case wasn't strong enough to merit you dismissing Cecily as possible scum yesterday.

I mean, Cecily's scum here but I still don't think your case had that much merit, and chkflip was very scummy.

[Faraday]

never mind vanilla's not a pr, derp i'm a retard.

[Cecily]

You're right, I didn't consider the alternative of faraday being town and that is my bad. I've been busy with studying for finals that are at the end of this week and don't have hours to dedicate to looking into this stuff. If your claim is true then by process of elimination setael, mike, and bub are the only remaining possibilities for scum. Bub's play seems town given the last game that I played with him where he was scum and that play and his play in here has been different. Setael's case on pine was too good for me to really believe she's scum and since then I haven't seen play from her that indicates scum. So that leaves mike.

If you'd really like the benefit of the doubt that maybe you're town, faraday, I'll go for mike. But that's only through the fact that he's the only one left.

I still don't trust the claim though so could someone please make a case on mike?

[Setael]

Le sigh. If cecily is town we are in so much trouble.

Faraday, don't you think Cecily not considering the possibility you are town is a point in her favor (or more evidence that you are both scum)? Since if she were scum and you were town that would never happen.

[mikemike778]

This is my first non newbie game on this site - so its the first time I've been involved with a one-shot information role and it may indeed be the standard way this role is played but from my perspective, I'm finding it very very difficult to difficult that anyone with this role would wait until Night 3 to use it. Just doesn't make sense to me in any way.

Firstly the obvious, by Day 4 (which is the first chance you would get to communicate your findings), over the half the players in the game are dead. Waiting until then means the odds are you will be dead before you can make use of it. Therefore waiting this long is illogical.

Secondly, once in Lylo or Mylo, guilty claims on a cop (which is pretty much what you would claim I'd guess if you got a positive return) are way less likely to be believed and may even get you lynched due to the likelihood of it being a scum claim. If you (or PT) used it night 1, the odds are it would be believed. Again illogical to wait this long.

Nope don't believe you I'm afraid.

I'm all for a mass claim so might as well hold off from voting for now.

[mikemike778]

Okay, I find a hard time believing Bud to be scu, Jerbs post where he replaces out is strongly town. it reminds me of the way percy replaced out in Storm recently, for an example. The whole detrimental to the town thing looks really sincere, I think that's almost impossible to fake.

Ah you seriously telling me that a scum player replacing out couldn't possibly replicate Jerbs' post ??? It was what a couple of lines long and a scum couldn't have posted that ???

[Faraday]

Faraday, don't you think Cecily not considering the possibility you are town is a point in her favor (or more evidence that you are both scum)? Since if she were scum and you were town that would never happen.

I don't even know if it's a tell either way...it looks scummy to me, but I'm hugely biased. Why would it never happen though?

[Faraday]

This is my first non newbie game on this site - so its the first time I've been involved with a one-shot information role and it may indeed be the standard way this role is played but from my perspective, I'm finding it very very difficult to difficult that anyone with this role would wait until Night 3 to use it. Just doesn't make sense to me in any way.

I didn't really have a choice. There's a thread in MD about this, I mean I don't agree you should wait, personally would have used it

Firstly the obvious, by Day 4 (which is the first chance you would get to communicate your findings), over the half the players in the game are dead. Waiting until then means the odds are you will be dead before you can make use of it. Therefore waiting this long is illogical.

But it's far more useful the later you keep it, I can definitely see why he wanted to save it even if I think it's not good play.

Secondly, once in Lylo or Mylo, guilty claims on a cop (which is pretty much what you would claim I'd guess if you got a positive return) are way less likely to be believed and may even get you lynched due to the likelihood of it being a scum claim. If you (or PT) used it night 1, the odds are it would be believed. Again illogical to wait this long.

Nope don't believe you I'm afraid.

I'm all for a mass claim so might as well hold off from voting for now.

This is why we should massclaim. We'll gain info from massclaiming we don't have no. It's not illogical at all, and you know it, it makes sense, it's just probably not quite optimum play.

You know you're waffling, who's scum?

[Faraday]

Massclaim. We should popcorn it. I'm expecting one more weak 1-shot pr for town.

Cecily should probably go first, since she's scummiest (is there any actual objections to this? is there?)
She picks who claims after, they claim and pick and so on till we're done.

[mikemike778]

I didn't really have a choice

Appreciate you can't answer for PT but that doesn't mean stuff he did (or didn't do) can be discounted.

But it's far more useful the later you keep it, I can definitely see why he wanted to save it even if I think it's not good play.

Not if no-one believes you in Lylo/Mylo when when you reveal all.

You know you're waffling, who's scum?

I've already said I don't believe someone would wait till Night 3 and therefore don't believe your claim. If I think you are lying then I obviously think you are scum. As for your partner well Fitz seems an obvious pick. Having said that, I don't agree in any way on your reasoning behind Bub being town so if you are scum then the Fitz thing could well be a smokescreen. One of the two anyway.

Have you got a link to the thread where it was discussed (and yeah I'm being lazy, if not I'll go and look for it).

Anyway onto the massclaim ... Ces you are up.

[Faraday]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17361 it was tracker, but same thing 1-shot role and all that.

But yes, you didn't outright called me scum you just said you found it difficult to believe, which basically means you can always change your mind at any point in the future. I'm curious, why do I clear fitz as scum here? What's the benefit? If I'd want to back off him I could have said I'd re-read over night and his reactions seemed townish, or things like that, what's the scum motivation I have for fakeclaiming here? This is a general question to pretty much anyone, I've narrowed down the lynch pool SIGNIFICANTLY with my play and why does this help me?

That towntell is very strong, quite frankly don't care if you disagree, but my town reads are always fairly awesome when strong. Like if Setael has somehow bussed Pine I'll literally go become her own personal 'voice slave' i'm that confident in mah reads.

[mikemike778]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17361 it was tracker, but same thing 1-shot role and all that.

But yes, you didn't outright called me scum you just said you found it difficult to believe, which basically means you can always change your mind at any point in the future. I'm curious, why do I clear fitz as scum here? What's the benefit? If I'd want to back off him I could have said I'd re-read over night and his reactions seemed townish, or things like that, what's the scum motivation I have for fakeclaiming here? This is a general question to pretty much anyone, I've narrowed down the lynch pool SIGNIFICANTLY with my play and why does this help me?

That towntell is very strong, quite frankly don't care if you disagree, but my town reads are always fairly awesome when strong. Like if Setael has somehow bussed Pine I'll literally go become her own personal 'voice slave' i'm that confident in mah reads.

This bit kinda gave it away re my opinion. If you don't believe someone, you tend to think they are scum.

Nope don't believe you I'm afraid.

And calling your own claim a strong 'town tell' pretty much erradicates any 'town tell-ness' that may have been there. Interesting as well that you've actually referenced that thread so quickly. Does kinda give the impression you've just read it during night and thought 'why don't I claim a one-shot' power and if they ask why I didn't use it earlier then I'll just link to it.

[Faraday]

Holy fucking shit can we lynch the scumbag? 'Interesting' indeed! It's clearly why I decided to bring the thread up in the first place.

[Faraday]

I MEAN I EVEN SAID I WOULD USE IT EARLIER. YOUR ARGUMENT IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

[Faraday]

Why aren't you voting me if you don't believe me? Are you afraid to wagon me with your buddy is that it? Wheeeeeee.