Open 300 - Mafia on Midol (Town Wins!)

[chkflip]

"So, I agree with the VCA (but won't mention it calling me scummy) and instead of persuing CEScum? I'll go for the easier mislynch."

[Thor665]

Why should I pursue CES scum over chk scum?
And that VCA doesn't leave me looking as scummy as I think you think it does.

[chkflip]

That aside, the post is still quite obv all sheep/buddy with Punkin.

[Thor665]

Sure, but I've been doing that since Day 2.
Why should I pursue CES scum over chk scum?

[chkflip]

So that makes it okay?
I'm not going to answer that question.

[Thor665]

It makes me question why you're bringing it up now as opposed to then.
You're the one who said I was scummy for not pursuing CES scum - look at the top of this page and explain that comment.

[chkflip]

CES I'll call scummy just for Day 1

with CES as an outside angle.

That's how I read this.

[Ranmaru]

Crazy, Crazy, Crazy, ooooh. Thought you always be miiine. Miiiiine.

Sociovote was prod-dodge. Simple as. Crazyvote was from my thought that you were scum.

Was there another question? I forget now.

Punkin's "connections" with me to the dead scum is mostly because I scumhunted them.

That's silly

.

Thor pretty much solidified my scumread of him with his response to the VCA.

UNVOTE: Ranmaru
VOTE: Thor665

It's not silly at all. You should look at connections and individual actions. Of course scum will fake connections to bring others down, but that is why you should be wary of people's actions towards you and their reads on you. You should even be wary of their LACK of connections to you.

Explain how Thor's reaction to the VCA was scummy to you. What purpose would scum have in reacting in that way?

[Ranmaru]

So that makes it okay?
I'm not going to answer that question.

Buddying is null. Explain how Thor's reaction leaned scum.

[Punkin]

Xine asked to be involved in boiling our VCA down to conclusions this time around, so she can see how it's done. This will not happen until tomorrow or, at the very latest, Wednesday. I was coming in here to apologize for the delay but I like the discussion that has sparked from the raw analysis and am happy to let it continue.

[Papa Zito]

and he even asked for a case on himself AS IF he was the towniest of townies.

You keep saying this. Explain why this is a bad thing.

[Ranmaru]

and he even asked for a case on himself AS IF he was the towniest of townies.

You keep saying this. Explain why this is a bad thing.

You haven't posted much content. You ask for proof of your own scumminess, but you don't even have proof of your own townieness. Meaning, you have no room to ASK FOR A CASE. Instead, you should be helping the town with scumhunting and analysis. Your recent post shows you are only coming in to post when you are mentioned (mostly, there are a few recent posts where you mention Thor and such). I'd like for you to take a little initiative. (You have less posts than bob)

What do you think about the recent conversations? The VCA? What are your reads?

[Papa Zito]

Why are scum more likely to ask for a case on themselves than town?


P.S. Don't tell me how to play tia.

[Thor665]

I'll actually agree that PZ is well within his rights to ask for my case on him.
I agree with Ran pointing out PZ's general failure at looking town, but that's because I think he's scum so I'm biased.

CES I'll call scummy just for Day 1

with CES as an outside angle.

That's how I read this.

This is chkflip's response to why I'm scummy for not pushing CES scum over chkflip scum. Below is the entire original comment;

Probably my call would be Papa Z and chk the scum, with CES as an outside angle.

@chkflip - How do you get from that line that I think CES is more likely scum than you are? Even the first line you quoted I'm saying I find him scummy mostly for Day 1 and how horrible his iso is...and then I immediately note that this is unfortunately within his meta.

So, please, walk me through it a little slower - why am I scummy for not pushing on CES scum as opposed to you scum?

[Papa Zito]

I agree with Ran pointing out PZ's general failure at looking town

Well see that's the difference. I'm not interested in my image. I'm interested in lynched the scumz.

[Ranmaru]

I agree with Ran pointing out PZ's general failure at looking town

Well see that's the difference. I'm not interested in my image. I'm interested in lynched the scumz.

Ok, if you are interested in the scumz, can you answer this:

What do you think about the recent conversations? The VCA? What are your reads?

[Thor665]

I like Plum's angle here - for a guy focused on the scumz you've spent a lot of time focused on my attack on you and not a lot focused on doing whatever sort of scumhunting it is you do. Maybe it's invisible scumhunting and I just miss it - but I'm missing it.

[Thor665]

^^^ Ran's angle. Whatevs, I'm sleep deprived (or stupid - take your pick).

[Punkin]

The more I read of Ran's posting the more I fell like he's trying to create noise and contusion, pointing fingers all over, giving lessons on how to play, double posting, quote walls, anything to draw attention away from his lack of real content.
I'm not the only one seeing this am I?

[Punkin]

Double-posting with our other head.

Conversation since the VCA has earned further scumpoints for Ran and chk. The former for under-reacting to my scum-or-dumb declaration and using some pretty bad logic in his stubborn attack on PZ. Scumz forgot who they killed, what?

Chk threw a dirty one-two punch against Thor with the stretchy buddying accusation and some scummy selective quoting. It feels like a desperate mafioso tired of teetering on the brink of a Thor lynch, and may also point to Ran-scum (though I didn't assign points to Ran for that). Chkflip just keeps getting scummier. It's astounding. We're not going to look over the VCA conclusions until tomorrow at the earliest but, no matter what they do to our read on him, I can tell y'all right now that I do

not

want this guy unconfirmed in endgame. Lynch or cop. Period.

This is a gem of a slip from one of the Yth-confirmed...

a lot of the reason I voted Ranmaru was because I worried that chk and/or Thor were Llama's confirmed innocents

You think they are scum but looked elsewhere because you were worried the cop got an innocent on them? I assigned double points for this. Not enough to push Crazy anywhere near the suspect list but something to be remembered in endgame if our house of cards comes tumbling down,

especially

if chk and Thor are town.

You ask for proof of your own scumminess, but you don't even have proof of your own townieness. Meaning, you have no room to ASK FOR A CASE.

Burden of proof: you're doing it wrong.

[singersigner]

The Diddy Bops

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Punkin (0):
Cyberbob (1): Ranmaru
Oman (0):
Papa Zito (0):
Ranmaru (3): Cyberbob, LlamaFluff, Cogito Ergo Sum
Thor665 (5): Papa Zito, Twilight Sparkle, Plum, Punkin, chkflip
Plum (0):
chkflip (1): Thor665
Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Llamafluff (0):
Twilight Sparkle (0):
Crazy (0):

Not voting (2): Oman, Crazy

V/LA Thor 5/19-22

Deadline is May 19th, 2011 at 5pm MST.

[singersigner]

I have also noticed that in the last two vote counts (Mika and Canadian Brass) were incorrect. Crazy was not voting chkflip at the time. It has been corrected.

[Oman]

Running with AGar first (theoretically having more links being alive longer and all):

AGar's first comment on the game was defending Papa Zito in that roundabout way of calling his attacker scum. Not that I'm saying DH's scumtrap was any good, but AGar's input here is interesting. There was plenty of incentive for AGar to sit out here: DH had proven himself firey, there was plenty of argument. AGar didn't need to say a word.

There is a lot of interaction with Thor that doesn't

need

to be there. There isn't any distancing, but at some points it feels super familiar.

Thor:

Do you and AGar play together often, or are you familiar with each other

AGar calls out Sudo on his positions, no need for a scum-member to bring that limelight.

Then again he does that later for Papa Zito too. This annoys me.

Doesn't like Punkin's vote on Llama, quite vehemently.

Zito - Town. Elaborated on this.
Thor - Mixed. I get fairly good logic from his posting, but Zito's 725 highlights some pitfalls in Thortown.
Llama - Town. Mislead, but town.
SocioPath - Leaning scummish because he seems to be playing in a way that makes him intentionally difficult to read.

Socio looks like a good partner candidate there, as does Thor. In my experience (and granted this is a general tell) Scum will call less certainty on their partners. If that fails, I'd say him calling Llama town fits the above disagreement.

Llama calls for an AGar claim early. Def not seeing partners in there.

His treatment of crazy leads me to think Crazytown (heh), especially where he says "you [crazy] are scum regardless of DH's alignment".

From that: Crazy = town, Llama = likely town.


NS doesn't have that much. Basically I don't see much out of the Sociopath vote except a last ditch distance...maybe.




Look, I've always played gut. I've read through the two known scum, in ISO and where required in context, and I've read through my two biggest suspects (Socio and Thor) and right now, Thor is biting the biggest. Considering he's not at L-1, I have no misgivings in this:

mod

: any reason for the Thor selfvote, I just read through twice and I can't see it

Yeah that was supposed to be chkflip. Fixed now, thanks. : )

VOTE: Thor

[Punkin]

Um... Oman...

When you're doing all that rereading stuff, you might want to check the list of dead players. One of your lead suspects is kinda on it. Also, he was town.

UNVOTE: Thor
VOTE: chkflip

Not interested in L-1 yet.

[Thor665]

Thor:

Do you and AGar play together often, or are you familiar with each other

I'm fascinated you care considering the way of your vote which seems pretty predicated on soft cuddly feelings between AGar and I.
But, yeah, AGar and I have been fairly aggressive about trying to be in games together and he easily makes the top five favorite guys for me to play games with on site. A check in either of our game lists will reveal multiple joint games which (self-meta alert) I submit show a common trend for our interactions that is reflected in this game and is separate from our alignments.

@Punkin - I hate to spit in the face of someone functionally tossing me a line, but... You sorta condemn Ran for angling on the 'Lol, Fate is dead?' tell from PZ. The thing is, she's sheeping my logic on that one. Why does Ran get a call out for that and I don't since I started the whole shebang?