Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

[Powerrox93]

Votecount 2.2

Updated as of post #324

C-Worl (4) - crazypianist1116, redtail896, Uncle Pain, Prox
tarsonisocelot (2) - Me=Weird, yabbaguy

Not voting (5) - Jase, C-Worl, Zdenek, imaginality, tarsonisocelot

If there's a mistake let me know.
11 Alive == 6 to Lynch && 6 to No-Lynch

C-Worl

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Powerrox93: May 12 - 15. Back-up mod Empking will look over the game while I'm away

Deadline

May 30 17:00 CEST

[C-Worl]

Was the hammer bad? Yeah, I admit I probably should have waited. But, I thought he was scum and figured waiting would have made the wagon stall and fall apart. I take full responisibility that my decision was bad and hurt town a lot but mislynching me, very quickly, won't help town.

[tarsonisocelot]

Post flip of [L], StefanB as vanilla town.
Will attempt to leave out non-analytic points

Page #7:
Yabbaguy gives reads again

StefanB votes Mist for telling him to self-vote

Scumpoints for Mist

UnclePain FoSs yabbaguy for calling StefanB obvtown while StefanB was being suspicious enough to almost get lynched.

yabba could do more than say "read his ISO" to show hime as non-scum, if yabba does think he's obvtown rather than being scum who knows StefanB is town

Townpost from pianist

StefanB defends well, calls mist on a weird post. Townpoints for StefanB. StefanB calls people on wagon scum and it is mistaken for a scumslip.

Yes, yabbaguy, my posts aren't neat, concise and informative like yours. It's not because I'm scum, it's because I'm not very good at this game. No, I did not contribute more substantially at this stage in any of the other games I was in - I was borderline inactive in a couple on D1.

Yabba claims that [L] is a terrible wagon, that StefanB is a terrible wagon and votes TO.

When did [L] stop being on your probable scumlist? In your last list, you had [L] as more likely to be scum than me, at what point did that change and why? (I accept that my lack of contribution is a valid reason to vote for me, but I want to know what made you decide [L] was town enough to be a terrible wagon.

Me=Weird asks yabbaguy to state StefanB towncase. Then [L] says that being ambivalent is enough reason to not have a vote on anyone on D1, and that they only look scummy when playing town. -_- I know now that [L] is town, but that is not a good defense.
Yabba makes a couple of statements that StefanB's non-slip is not a slip, that [L] is not actually a terrible wagon but an ok one and that TO is a better wagon (not accompanied by reasons).

I want yabbaguy to be town and have had a townread on him so far, but reading after the flips then I'm not so sure.

Page #8:
Yabba continues to call StefanB and [L] town and [L]'s wagon is now not ok but a mistake. Says TO going after [L] is scummy but not why. Does not give [L] or StefanB town case, just says they are. Again.

redtail arrives and posts a scum list, most of which appears ok, though there isn't really anything new in it that I can see.

StefanB defends self, does little scumhunting.

UnclePain restates FoS on yabba and clarifies it. Townposting also goes into other wagons/reads. Like.

Redtail gets townpoints for a post that makes sense and seems pro-town.

StefanB posts defence and explanation of their play over several posts spreading onto P9. Seems townier than before.

Page #9: (multiple posts make this go faster, as does attempting to exclude any interactions that don't seem explicilty relevant right now)

Why did [L] play like that as town? I don't understand.

[L], if you could explain things like the SC "lie of the land" after the game it would be very nice.

Mist has evolved into Prox.
Scumhunting from StefanB. Town-ness rising.

Not much on this page.

Page #10:

[L]: "Put me at L-1 already." -_-

andrew has evolved into C-worl
Prox: " Well today seems (deceptively?) simple. Ocelot is the most scummy. VOTE: ocelot.

My post got deled...demotivated. Retype later. Sorry. But check out ocelot iso."

What about the ISO is scummy? You have to give a reason that an ISO is scummy, not just wave your hand at it an say 'go take a look, they're scum in there'.

Crazypianist gives some reads, and calls yabba vs uncle pain town vs town. I now know that both the main suspects in it are definitely town ([L] and me, though you won't necessarily take my word for it about me).
Imaginality gets townpoints from me for #249.

Still haven't seen yabbaguy's SC/redtail case.

This post is getting long now so I'll stop it here. Almost up to date.

[tarsonisocelot]

Page #11:

Imaginality posts andrew case.

DemonHybrid replaces StefanB then posts a nice, logical, analytical page-by-page summary. I want to be like Demonhybrid when I grow up.

Me=Weird gives summary of [L]'s lie to DH as part of a useful post.

Most of this page was consumed by the replacement issue.
One-liners from C-worl and [L], but they are at least rlelvant. [L] claims VT.

Page #12:
C-Worl asks everyone to justify the wagon they are on. Seems pro-town, but the post also says C-Worl has no suspects. At P12, he should have.

FoS: C-Worl

Imaginality and Me=Weird criticize C-Worl's characterisation of them as staying off big wagins when they were both on StefanB's.

[L] makes case against me. I find the putting gendered pronouns in brackets with question marks here to be insulting, especially as my gender was stated in one of the posts quoted here. I also disagree with parts of the case.

Jase also questions C-Worl's characterisation.

C-Worl: "Why wait before hammering?"

To use the rest of the day to get more information? To get more interactions? Because sometimes something happens that completely shifts the game around?

Jase posts town reasons to not end the day.

[L] analyses the wagon against her with a few one liners, not all of which make sense/match the game. Accuses TO of being an SK, when there is no evidence of one existing.

There continues to be no such evidence

Page #13:
C-Worl hammers.

At the end of Day 1, with [L] innocent, I consider C-Worl to be the scummiest player for lack of real scumhunting while attempting to appear to be contributing encouraging other to early lynch and then doing so himself when he got the chance.

yabbaguy: Got that SC/redtail slot case you mentioned earlier? I know you decided fairly early on that StefanB(whose slot was NKed) was obvtown, why though did you flip between [L] wagon terrible and [L] is an okay lynch more than once?

I'm going to stop my re-read here and try to stay in the present Day 2.

The post with the no analysis/reread was made using a different computer, while I didn't have access to this one. I didn't think to transfer the reread doc onto my external to have with me so I had no access to this. In these last two posts I've attempted to make it less information and more analysis, but I don't know how well I've done at that.

[redtail896]

Was the hammer bad? Yeah, I admit I probably should have waited. But, I thought he was scum and figured waiting would have made the wagon stall and fall apart. I take full responisibility that my decision was bad and hurt town a lot but mislynching me, very quickly, won't help town.

The hammer was incredibly bad, as noted by multiple people. Jase's posts at the end of D1 give the best summary.

C-Worl is actually a VERY intriguing case - but I wonder if there's a case outside of "that hammer sucked", and yes, that hammer sucked. So he scum-tilts for me right now, but I still have to continue the sentiments that ocelot is continuing to blather.

Admittedly the hammer is the biggest thing, but there's more to it than that. Andrew was considered scummy by a good portion of us (little scumhunting, a couple of bizarre accusations, and general lack of real content). Also, C-Worl suffers from many of the same problems. As an example: tell me why C-Worl voted for [L].

[Zdenek]

When Redtail replaced in, all of the read he gave were incredibly safe. His scum reads were [L], andrew, Stefan and Ocelot. [L], Stefan and Ocelot were the major wagons day one, and severl people voiced suspicion of Andrew.

There was this post,

I don't understand this. Can you clarify please? What exactly did I take too far? And why do you suspect my slot?

Yabbaguy noted the issue with it:

"wababa what the crap accusation, wait that's not clear, excuse me while I put on good Townie face and ask politely as possible 'Just why exactly, good madam, have you decided to accuse me on an otherwise perfectly fine day? Could you be bothered to explain the inner meanings of your grievances about me?'"

Criminey. Scummy scum Mcscum.

Now,

VOTE: C-Worl

The hammer was scummy scummy scummy. There's no way around that. And his content beyond that is not fantastic (certainly not exceptionally townie).

If we agree not to lynch C-Worl for this, I'm still going back to TO, based on supreme IIoA and general lack of scumhunting.

Redtail readies his escape from the C-Worl wagon back on to Ocelot in case that lynch doesn't happen.

So while I think C-Worl's hammer was hasty, I'm seeing more scum-intent in Redtail's play.

Vote Redtail

[Jase]

Ok well. C-worl. That was pretty awful, and I think very likely scum motivated. Gonna quick rundown some of the reasons why.There's the stuff that had been said such as all the great reasons to NOT END THE FRIGGING DAY that I said, which he ignored. That's not why I'm here however. I think in this case it's more likely a scum action than your average bad hammer. This is for two reasons. One, he did exactly what I had accused L of trying to do, which may also have been what put the idea in his head in the first place. Two, I had been shouting about how anti town it would be to end the day and he went and did the opposite thing a townie should have done. That's really the clincher. That above all the other points against him suggests that his actions were scum motivated rather than a bumbling town screw up.

HoS: Cworl

That's a place holder. Let's not put him at L-1 until we're ready to end the day yeah? For real this time!

[Jase]

Also Yabbas apparent attempt to de-rail the cworl wagon is putting a bad taste in my mouth. Pretty suspicious if you ask me.

[C-Worl]

Was the hammer bad? Yeah, I admit I probably should have waited. But, I thought he was scum and figured waiting would have made the wagon stall and fall apart. I take full responisibility that my decision was bad and hurt town a lot but mislynching me, very quickly, won't help town.

The hammer was incredibly bad, as noted by multiple people. Jase's posts at the end of D1 give the best summary.

You're quoting where I admit that the hammer was bad. You're arguing a point that I'm not arguing against. So, is Jase. However I AM TOWN. Lynching me won't help town out.

[Me=Weird]

I'm also a bit concerned by Me=Weird's post above, saying he'll be 'looking into [C-Worl and tarsonisocelot] later', because that points to not having spent any time rereading during the night.

I didn't. I use night to take a break, and rarely think about the game during it. Dislike TIO's posts above, as they still don't give much of an opinion. However, I didn't get a chance to read up on them, but tomorrow shouldn't be as busy.

[imaginality]

C-Worl: what's your read of yabbaguy?

[C-Worl]

Yabba feels town. I see intent in his posts. Plus he's not trying to derail my wagon as Jase's misrep says. He put me as his likely scum along with Tarson.

[imaginality]

Plus he's not trying to derail my wagon as Jase's misrep says. He put me as his likely scum along with Tarson.

So you're saying you think he gets extra townpoints from you because he thinks you're scum?

[Powerrox93]

Votecount 2.3

Updated as of post #337

C-Worl (4) - crazypianist1116, redtail896, Uncle Pain, Prox
tarsonisocelot (2) - Me=Weird, yabbaguy
redtail896(1) - Zdenek

Not voting (4) - Jase, C-Worl, tarsonisocelot, imaginality

If there's a mistake let me know.
11 Alive == 6 to Lynch && 6 to No-Lynch

C-Worl

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Powerrox93: May 12 - 15. Back-up mod Empking will look over the game while I'm away

Deadline

May 30 17:00 CEST

[Powerrox93]

And just to remind everyone, I'm going V/LA Thursday - Sunday, so Empking will do votecounts and such during that time.

[C-Worl]

Plus he's not trying to derail my wagon as Jase's misrep says. He put me as his likely scum along with Tarson.

So you're saying you think he gets extra townpoints from you because he thinks you're scum?

I made a really bad move and honestly it'd be off if anyone didn't think I was scummy today. At least at first. Hopefully, I can try to prove that wrong but at this point. It logically makes sense to see me as scum. I pointed that out to show that Jase was misrepping him and thus Jase should be checked into.

[Jase]

You're quoting where I admit that the hammer was bad. You're arguing a point that I'm not arguing against. So, is Jase. However I AM TOWN. Lynching me won't help town out.

I'm arguing the point that your hammer was very likely scum motivated. I'm going to jump right past the sarcastic "So you you're 'not arguing against' that point eh?" You obviously aren't but you need to address THAT and stop trying to lump my accusation in with the "That was a really, REALLY bad hammer" aspect of the case against you.

Also, telling us that you're town and saying how much we'll regret it if we lynch you is not a defense. You can't honestly expect to sway anyone by saying that so just leave it out in the future and we can all just do what we were going to do anyways and make our own judgement.

Even more also-er than that, what do you mean yabba isn't trying to derail your wagon? He essentially says "I know what c-worl did was scummy and everything but hey I have an idea! Let's all focus on someone else!" With little explanation of why the TO wagon is better than the YOU wagon.

[C-Worl]

Doesn't want a quick lynch. Wants to keep discussion going. You said you didn't want me quicklynched yet besides misrepping Yabba, all you've done is argue my case. Also, you made your point on why you think it's scum motivated. I said I'm town (which contradicts your statement) I can't argue more than that bc you're trying to guess my intent and failing horribly.

[Jase]

Doesn't want a quick lynch. Wants to keep discussion going. You said you didn't want me quicklynched yet besides misrepping Yabba, all you've done is argue my case.

Also, you made your point on why you think it's scum motivated. I said I'm town (which contradicts your statement) I can't argue more than that bc you're trying to guess my intent and failing horribly.

The bold:

What is this supposed to mean? I can almost hear an accusation in there somewhere but it's very faint...maybe I misheard? If it IS an accusation state it nice and clear. If it is NOT an accusation then what was your purpose in saying it?

The plain: "I'm town" is not a defense against any point (at least any point that isn't stupid). Maybe you've got nothing to say to convince us that you didn't intentionally end the day before our replacements caught up, and that's fine, but ALSO not a defense is misrepresenting those accusations so that you can defend them with the "I made a mistake" defense.

[C-Worl]

My intent behind the hammer was that I thought he was scum. I didn't want scum to use the stall in order to draw townies off the wagon. Obviously, he was town and I was wrong. I already stated all of that so the only other defense I can give is that I am town. The first two sentences of the bolded are from me pointing out that your argument on Yabba is a misrep. The second is an argument against you stating that besides saying you don't want to quicklynch besides misrepping someone else all you've done is talk about me. If you wish to gain more out of today why don't you target other players that are not me since the wagon on me apparently isn't going anywhere.

[Powerrox93]

From this point until I return home from my V/LA on Sunday Empking will be the one who's moderating this game.

[Jase]

My intent behind the hammer was that I thought he was scum. I didn't want scum to use the stall in order to draw townies off the wagon. Obviously, he was town and I was wrong. I already stated all of that so the only other defense I can give is that I am town.

The first two sentences of the bolded are from me pointing out that your argument on Yabba is a misrep.

The second is an argument against you stating that besides saying you don't want to quicklynch besides misrepping someone else all you've done is talk about me. If you wish to gain more out of today why don't you target other players that are not me since the wagon on me apparently isn't going anywhere.

Bold:

Why in the world would you want to deprive town of that kind of connection?! The suspicion of L wasn't going away. Ever. Even if she had been scum and scum led another wagon for yesterday that would have been great. We could have potentially used that to catch two for one, but I doubt any wagon would have been stronger. That's all moot of course, she flipped town. "I'm town" Is still never a defense.

Italics:

In what way do those two sentences relate to yabbaguy?

Underlined:

We're, what, two pages into the day? And all I've done is talk about you? What a fool I've been! Now I see the error of my ways. You're right though. I should stop pushing you for information so that I can get more information out of the day. Thank you so much for setting me back on the right path. THAT is really just a slightly wordier version of "Don't pay attention to me! Go do something else!". This is getting insulting. In what way is your wagon not getting us "more out of today"?

[C-Worl]

Well simply, and you're going to love this, because I'm town. Those first two sentences are what Yabba was doing and they are what you were ignoring in the middle of your misrep. It's only a connection if he gets lynched. When I say use the stall I mean derail the wagon and get someone else lynched. If I remember correctly TO had some votes on him too. If [L] had been scum like I thought he was then waiting could've caused the wagon to die and a townie would've gotten lynch. You can push me for information all you want but I don't have any information I can give you. I'm just saying if you really wanted to catch scum it might help if you look elsewhere because, here it comes again, for those of you with the benefit of flash photography, I'm town.

[Jase]

Well simply, and you're going to love this, because I'm town. Those first two sentences are what Yabba was doing and they are what you were ignoring in the middle of your misrep. It's only a connection if he gets lynched. When I say use the stall I mean derail the wagon and get someone else lynched. If I remember correctly TO had some votes on him too. If [L] had been scum like I thought he was then waiting could've caused the wagon to die and a townie would've gotten lynch. You can push me for information all you want but I don't have any information I can give you. I'm just saying if you really wanted to catch scum it might help if you look elsewhere because, here it comes again, for those of you with the benefit of flash photography, I'm town.

Whatever man, you can keep saying it if you want. Maybe it'll even sway someone if you say it enough. When did yabba actually say he wanted to stretch the day out/avoid a quick lynch/whatever? Do you expect there's actually any danger of a quicklynch?

I know what you meant when you said "stall the wagon". If scum had tried to derail the L wagon (and L had been scum) we could have seen the connection. Day one usually ends with a town lynch anyways I'd gladly sacrifice a scummy town player for the chance at catching a scum connection. Preventing that was not a valid reason to hammer.

I am going to keep pushing you for information (thanks for the permission) because I think there's a good chance that you're scum, and I want to catch scum.

[yabbaguy]

I am going to keep pushing you for information (thanks for the permission) because I think there's a good chance that you're scum, and I want to catch scum.

Many a tunnelvisioner has said this. Tread with caution. I'll let you know if you're about to hit a trap.

Oh, and that case tarson-scum really wants me to state: Carcinogen's ISO is fluffing mostly, especially with stupid advice like this:

GroupThink, you need to explain yourself. A person doesn't make their first post on page three and make it a completely blank, wordless vote. That's just not groovy.

And then there's redtail - who I'm willing to gander is trying to slam that andrew wagon a bit too roughly. There was one post where it was all "to me" in a defensive sort of way - and I have a niggling suspicion that he's playing defensive against no perceptible threat.

Both are swooping in to give advice about interactions and remarks that I don't think they really care about, basically look for comments that don't really add substance to the game. I'm also curious if redtail is overly defensive with his language always or just as scum - but I don't trust diving for meta any more, it never works. Consistent track record.

I still don't know about ocelot. She needs to actually contribute something useful. I'm seesawing between her and redtail right now. That's where I'm at.