New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[SubzeroSith]

I also have no idea why that ended up being a double post.

quadz, feel free to delete one of those.

Sorry, y'all.

<3

[Nobody Special]

I can't believe how blind you guys are.

I mean,

really.

Vote: Mastin

[Pine]

Care to explain?

[mastin2]

Dang cold. I meant to work on this game last night, but a sore throat at 2 am was my body's signal that I needed to sleep. >_< Looks like I'm out of time, and have to post this, 'cause nobody's paying attention to me. :/

---

Now I realize my vote on Sub

Zero

Sith is extremely poor, and gives off the appearance of a horrible RVote past that S.

But it actually does have a purpose. I'm typing this at 6:18 (the post SAYS 8:17 'cause I haven't fixed my time zone), to show how I'm not BS'ing when I choose to post it.

Essentially, I'm looking for specific reactions to my post. Everyone who knows me should realize that I don't like the RVS--hate it, even. And that I'd recognize better than anyone else when it's over.

And I did.

But I'm after those reactions. I'm actually quite concerned about SubZeroSith. I've played with DarthYoshi's half before. (Technically, I believe I've played with ICEninja once or twice two years ago, but didn't really pay any attention to those games. :P)

And this doesn't look like the Yoshi-town I remember.

Granted, he was a newbie, then, and he was also a Cop, then, (and hydra'ing is different than normal play) but it's still concerning enough to me that I'm looking specifically for reactions.

Spoiler: My overall reads in the game were essentially

jmurph--null, lean town.
Silver--null, need meta review.
Wraith--null, need meta review.
Amor--null; fluctuated. Seemed like scum, but also looked like an easy mislynch.
nhammen--null; need meta review. I've seen him as both town and scum, and think I can tell the difference.
DeityKabuto--null, leaning town.
Pine--inadvisable to read him, so null.
Zepher--null, slight town lean.
Surye--seemed town enough, but I'm not sure.
Nobody Special--Null.
Thor--Null. Fluctuated between scum and town.
Uite--got a town-read, somehow. Will need review.
Subzero--as mentioned, weak scumread.
Toon--Null; fluctuates. I see the case against Toon Fighter, but at the same time, Toon seems like an easy mislynch.
Maxous--town-read.
Knight of Cydonia--null; fluctuates. Seems scum on first impression, but gut says town.

...In other words:
Worthless. (I was thinking originally, "how hard could it be?" Then I tried, realized how many null--therefore worthless-reads I had, and screamed, "GAH!")

I need to re-read the thread. And I decided that in the mean time, I might as well leave something with a "WTF?!?" factor to get in good reactions.

Oh, and some time in the future--a few hours, a day, I dunno--I'm going to respond to any "is that serious?!?" with a response of,

"Totally. Dead serious. Sith's So Scum."

...To get more reactions.

I know, kinda confusing, but it makes sense as play from me.

So, yeah. Is it random? Semi. It's not a strong vote. But it's a vote enough for me to get started in the game.






Now, for my catchup post:

Spoiler: hopefully, will be my only wall

I'm going to quickly run through my first impressions of posts.
Do note, this IS just my FIRST impressions. As in, my initial view of the thread. These reads are obviously going to change some more when I look at things in more detail.
Dislike.
Dislike.
Like.
Like.
Dislike.
Double Dislike. The reason is not what I'd expect from a town-Pine who played with nhammen as scumbuddies.
Dislike.
Dislike. (Thor now has two.)
Dislike.
Flip-flops. No RV is bad, way he answered the questions seemed good.
Dislike. KoC now has two.
Like. Hard to explain why. It shouldn't be a "like". It's nearly identical to KoC's, which I dislike. But I'm calling it as I see on my first impression, and somehow, this post was a like rather than a dislike. (And theoretically counterbalances the dislike from Toon, earlier.)
Like. THIS is the type of post I expect!
Like. There's something very subtle in this which makes me like it. I'd prefer not to explain it, but trust me, it's there.
Dislike.
Double Dislike. Again. (That said, I would prefer not to attempt to read Pine. It ends badly. :P)
Like. Despite the fact that there's no RV (which SHOULD make me dislike it), I somehow still get a likable impression out of it.
Dislike. This is my second dislike on SubSith.
Flip-flops. First paragraph I disliked, second I semi-liked. Has that scum lean, considering the second paragraph seemed like it was weaker, but still, far from solid.
Dislike. This is Thor's third dislike...
Flip-flops. Seems like it should be town, but a gut feeling--can't pin down where; might be the last sentence--prevents it from being a like.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Like.
Flip-flops. (Told you it was a bad idea for me to read Pine. :P)
flip-flops. Seems like it SHOULD be town (for the PS), but something seems off.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops.
Like.
Dislike. This is SubSith's third dislike.
Like. Though that might just be due to me laughing so hard. :P
Flip-flops.
Dislike. This is SubSith's fourth dislike. I think you can understand why I'm concerned about 'em. (Though, again, I'd like to remind you that these ARE initial impressions only, and that when I review the posts more, and look at interactions between people, I might change my mind.)
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops. There's something in there which makes me think Pine's town, but that same exact thing the very next second made me think Pine was scum, and then the very next moment made me think... ...Yeah.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops. Seems like it SHOULD be town, but gut's acting up. >_< (Pine, I hate you. :P)
Flip-flops. Slight town-lean, but not sure; too heavily doubted for me to like it.
Like.
Like. Under the assumption both NS and Thor are town, though. If either of them aren't, I'd be suspicious of this post.
Like.
Like. Albeit only just.
Dislike.
Like. Also a post which assumes Thor's town, this time also assuming silver's town. If either aren't...
Like, though see above.
Flip-flops. I thought, at first, that I liked it: he was spot-on, and that was pretty much my opinion. Why not a like, then? Because Thor's vote remained on Max and wasn't switched.
Like. Albeit only just.
Dislike. What is this, the fifth?
Flip-flops.
Like.
Flip-flops. Would be dislike, but the question to KoC (which makes me doubt the Like) prevents that.
Like. Though only just.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Like.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Dislike.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Like.
Dislike. For multiple reasons, too. This is SubSith's sixth dislike! (I'm...a bit worried I might be tunneling...)
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops. Part of me likes it, part of me hates it.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops. Why? 'Cause he doesn't trust nhammen specifically, rather than nhammen AND Pine. If it were both, I definitely would've liked this post, but only one makes me doubtful.
Flip-flops. With a slight town lean. ("...What." Just calling it how I see it! :/) Justification seemed somewhat suspicious, but I liked his vote. ("...But it was an OMGUS." Yes, but it was done in a way which gave me the initial town impression.)
Flip-flops.
Like.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Dislike.
Flip-flops. But has a town lean to it.
Dislike.
Flip-flops. With a slight newb-town-lean.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops. With a

very

slight

town read.
Like.
Flip-flops. But does make me think that I need to revise the dislike I had for Pine's attitude before, since he explains it here.
Flip-flops, but has a scum-lean.
Flip-flops.
Double dislike. This is the seventh. (

Am

I tunneling? :/)
Flip-flops.
Like, and this also makes me like the original, since he (presumably) has only seen scum-Pine once, as opposed to scum-nhammen twice.
Flip-flops. Though it's quite hilarious.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops, though it has a strong town-lean.
Flip-flops.
Like, but only on the condition that KoC and Thor are both town.
Like, albeit only just. Also, see above.
Like, though see above. (Funny, how so many interactions with Thor look town, but only if both the person involved and Thor are town...)
Dislike. What is this, eight?
Flip-flop, but slight town lean.
Flip-flop.
Like. Despite the incoherence.
Dislike. Number nine for SubSith. This is fluff. (...Yeah, pretty sure I'm tunneling on SubSith. :/)
Like. Albeit only just.
Like, though that might just be due to me laughing.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Dunno. (Flip-flop implies that I've read it as town, and read it as scum, and can't decide. "Dunno" is flat-out "have no read either way; Null".)
Flip-flop.
Like.
Dislike. Thor's Dislike count has been pretty nullified by the number of Likes, so I'm not going to bother to count what number this is.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flop, though has a town-lean.
Flip-flops, though again has that town-lean.
Flip-flop, with a slight scum lean.
Like.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops.
Flip-flops, but actually has a town-lean. ("...What." Points out what he sees as hypocrisy; that looks like good, solid [albeit of questionable strength logic] scumhunting to me.)
Like, but that might just be due to how much I'm laughing. :P
Flip-flop.
Flip-flops.
Dislike. Tenth strike, yer out? :P (Alright, it's official. I'm tunneling on SubSith. :P)
Flip-flops.
Flip-flop, but with a town-lean.
Flip-flop. Made me laugh, though. ;)
Like, though that might just be the fact that I am absolutely laughing quite loudly. :P
Flip-flops, but scum lean.
Like.

And as of 8:15, that's the last post in the thread. So, I'll begin my reads of the game in more detail. Starting with VCA (cooked up as I was doing the above).

Some VCA:
DeityKabuto, MrZepher, Maxous <--I'd expect one scum, here.
Amor, Thor665, Nobody Special <--'Nother scum here, I'd expect.
I'd also expect one to two scum in the (1) voters, nhammen, SubSith, Surye, silver, Wraith, and KoC.
But with 17 players, that's pretty much only 4-5 scum, likely only 4. Might be one scum in the (2) wagon, but doubtful.

I'm a bit concerned at how many of my scumreads are in particular areas, since there's a maximum amount of scum for said places, a limit dangerously close to being exceeded.

DeityKabuto, MrZepher, Knight of Cydonia <--I'd still expect one scum in there. :/
Thor, Amor, Nobody Special <--Same.
Additionally, with two (2) wagons, I'd expect one scum in {Surye, silver, Pine, Toon}, too.
Which, of course, means that I'd expect one more scum to be within {nhammen, SubSith}.

SubzeroSith, Pine, MrZepher, DeityKabuto <--Another concerning wagon, I'd expect to see one scum on here, yet there are multiple scum suspects present...
Wraith, Maxous, jmurph3, Surye, silverbullet999, Toon Fighter <--I'd expect 1-2 scum in here.
Which leaves 1-2 scum in the remaining wagons, and that'd be one scum in {Thor, NS, KoC} and/or one scum in {nhammen, Amor}.

NOTE: As of 5/10 at 5 PM (just before I leave for Tae Kwon Do), I did the totally serious. So far, I'm being called a bit of an active lurker. (By Toon.) This is promising. "How so?" It is promising because it might give me insight into Toon. Initial read is good, but I'll be observing the reactions it'll get soon enough.

In the mean time, I've still got to work on reading posts in more detail, observing the interactions. I've got pretty much only a day or so to do so. ("Why that deadline?" 'Cause that's about how long I can get away with this style of posting: half a week or so. If I exceed that limit, then I become an actual active lurker in the eyes of others, despite the fact that I'm typing up notes and contributing secretly behind the scenes. :P)

(As for my 9:18 message about SubSith being a town-read? Not a complete lie. SubSith looks kinda like an easy wagon.)

You'll also note in my 2:15 message a trend I've intentionally been using: lack of smilies, something I always use. Really hoping somebody catches on to this. I mean, look at the above! :P That's normal for me. ;)

Yeah. There's one word for my total contribution to this game, even with the above:

Fluff.

And lots of it. Sorry, guys. Thought it'd be easier. But, eh, I meant it when I said this'd be my only wall. What am I going to do?

Open a private QT, to store my thoughts in, and post only the conclusions from it.

I've got to click on every single one of the links I made, see why I thought what I did at the time, review it, and come to a final conclusion on the matter to get a solid read. (Which would be another huge wall, hence, me wanting a QT*. :P)

*Hey, it works when I'm in Calcifer! :P When I use a QT, I wall less. ;)

Vote will momentarily stay: SubSith IS a suspect of mine, despite the fact that they appear to be an easy wagon. I'll be pondering whether I think they're town or scum, but since (to my knowledge) they're nowhere close to being lynched, no harm in keeping my vote there.

[SubzeroSith]

Alright so there's a legendary mastic post that I've heard of.

Just for your reference, the ICE half of the hydra has made probably 2/3rds of our posts, and using meta read on a hydra is completely useless as you even yourself admit.

Now looking at your second spoiler, you sure have a lot of worthless stuff in there. You like some random votes but dislike others, despite them being more or less the same thing. You flip flop on tons of people without much explanation, and you admit to having posted mostly fluff.

While you do give some tidbits of analysis here and there, mostly in the form of 'like" or "dislike", and some unexplained VCA, I'm not really seeing any scum hunting at all from you. I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish with your vote on me, but if it's something that you normally do then I'll just have to wait for some real scum hunting from the end of the day.

[SubzeroSith]

I'd also like to direct everyone to Nothing Special's ISO.

0: Answering my questions. Fine.
1: Better than average random vote, but still not particularly good.
2: Empty.
3: "Uh wut I'm confused."
4: Worthless.
5: Almost looks like a random vote.

I've seen people do more scum hunting on page 1 than this guy has the whole game so far. Don't like it.

[nhammen]

Returned from V/LA.

Note: it is just before 1am here, so my post will come sometime tomorrow: probably within 12 hours, but possibly longer.
Note2: I finished my own finals, but will be grading Calculus finals all day on Friday (800+ students 11 questions each, with approximately 10 graders; pity me). Therefore, do not expect anything from me after Thurday night, until Saturday.
Note3: I have practically no commitments from Saturday until June. Hopefully, my activity will be higher than it has been for almost a year.

[SubzeroSith]

And this doesn't look like the Yoshi-town I remember.

Granted, he was a newbie, then, and he was also a Cop, then, (and hydra'ing is different than normal play) but it's still concerning enough to me that I'm looking specifically for reactions.

You just listed three pretty substantial variables there, Mastin. Tell me again why you're reading much into this?

Also--I notice that you're referring to both us and Toon as "easy wagons" or "easy lynches." But one of the two (us) you think is scum and one (Toon) you think is null despite you apparently seeing the point of the case. Why the discrepancy?

[mastin2]

I'm not sure what you hoped to accomplish with your vote on me, but if it's something that you normally do then I'll just have to wait for some real scum hunting from the end of the day.

Ice, I assume?
(By lack of familiarity. Not surprising, considering I barely remembered that name, and the memory's probably mutual. )

I clearly explained everything in the post.

Spoiler: Initial Reads

I say these are my initial reads, which are pretty much my first thoughts on that post, and that post alone. Not taking into account the bigger picture, so to speak. Also VERY largely influenced by Gut, which I explained probably is the reason for similar posts getting a different rating. (I don't know why for sure, since I'm not sure myself why; I just know I felt that way. The reasons why I have no clue--only an educated guess.)

Spoiler: Rambling on VCA

The VCA makes sense if you've seen my play in any of my games and know how I analyze it. It's Mastin-style analysis. (I wrote a guide on it. "Mastin's Guide to VCA", if you're interested. It still has some quirks to work out, and is somewhat controversial, to say the least, but eventually, I'm going to perfect it!) I've found that it actually tends to be more accurate than my reads on people. For instance, in There Will Be Bloodshed, I correctly called out there being one scum on the Pine wagon. I thought it was Evil, and when Evil died, thought it was Empking. I wasn't wrong--it was that the confirmed town, TwoHeadedBoy (both via Neighbor and Cop) wasn't actually confirmed town. Had I trusted the analysis instead of my reads, I would've nailed 'em. (I was also dead at the time, though theoretically, it would've worked!) Like I said. Still has glitches I need to work out. But it'll eventually be my best scumhunting tool.

So, yeah. TL;DR version of everything:
My mind works on a different wavelength than most people's.

Spoiler: More Rambling

It makes communication incredibly frustrating, and sometimes, I have extremely difficulty getting into the game (which I apparently am having right now). But when I DO get into the game, and lock into solid reads, then I become a pretty darn good scumhunter.

I'm working on briging the gap, so to speak. Making myself capable of getting into the game. No scumhunting? Yeah, unfortunately not. But I've got time set aside, right now, to get things straightened out, get my head into the game, and let's see if I can't pull the classic Mastin Move:

Nailing the entire scumteam on the first two pages. (Okay, so that was a fluke of nature on my [technically, though I consider it second] third game on-site, but that later moved to first five pages!)

The Yoshi half of you should remember

that

Mastin. The Mastin who knows how to scumhunt well, who finds the vital subtle links separating town from scum. Let's see if I can access him. (I hope so.)

TL;DR of that? Scumhunting Pending. Hopefully, I'll get something solid in by tonight.

[mastin2]

Also--I notice that you're referring to both us and Toon as "easy wagons" or "easy lynches." But one of the two (us) you think is scum and one (Toon) you think is null despite you apparently seeing the point of the case. Why the discrepancy?

While I SEE the Toon case, there are a few things I have observed from Toon which look town.

When I look at you, I don't see that town view.

But, admittedly?

I think I'm tunneling on you, so I need that re-read to revaluate things. See if I'm really tunneling, or if you're just that obvious scum.

[silverbullet999]

-Subzero (Darth)

Reasons that you were ready to abandon by unvoting us as soon as JokeMastin said we were town must not be very good reasons.

Mastin saying someone's obv town/scum after my experience with him. Him saying you were obv scum. Leads me to heavily believe you were town because mastin is special like that.

Way to strawman.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT A STRAWMAN!? What possible relevance does you stating "while spelling poorly" have anything to do with anything besides you literally wanting to be a dickhead to me. EXPLAIN THIS.

after just hours earlier posting this:

What you quoted.. was me commenting on everyone saying oh Uite is lurking this is scummy, UITE POST! It is not "Oh these questions are shit, i'm going to attempt discredit them so Uite doesn't have to deal with them". Holy Shit Misrep more dude.

Way to completely avoid not answering why you are defending max and further misrepping me. .

[silverbullet999]

EBWOP
Great job showing me where i'm paranoid about getting a single vote on me too.

[Surye]

Silver's on and off votes of Sub is really suspicious, as I'm not seeing any reason for the flipflops. And then giving Uite an excuse is pretty bad.

[Maxous]

@Silverbullet:
1) This is not comitting yourself opinions. Particualry when it's the only one you have mentioned in 19 posts.
2) Why am I winning scum points?
3) Fine..I'll rephrase. What is your opinion on Subzero's case on Toon Fighter?

@Wraith: Fine..

Uite is null. He said he has'nt had time.

Basically agree

[mastin2]

Just finished some VCA. It pretty strongly implicates both Silver and SubzeroSith as scum, actually. (Along with Amor...) Since I haven't done the reread of the thread, yet, I haven't thought out these reads in more detail, but their interaction certainly looks like it COULD be bussing...

(Still trying to analyze the VCA to make some initial conclusions. I've got some ideas for townsfolk which might surprise you, and some which obviously won't. Same goes for scum. Interesting note, is that in pretty much all the votecounts, Amor is someone who COULD be scum, and fits pretty well.

Yes, this means {Amor, SubSith, Silver} are my three main suspects right now based off of preliminary findings. Not sure on anyone else, though, and again, these reads might change. If I had to take a wild stab in the dark as to a fourth member, it'd be one of Zepher or {Surye,

Wraith

*}.

Just initial findings. But will ponder if this scumteam makes any sense by anything other than the VCA.)

*Working off of four scum, which seems right. Five's too many in a game this small.

[mastin2]

Yeah. Initial VCA might not be the most accurate tool, but I think it's done its job:

I have something to work from, something which--while not conclusive--is at least a starting point, to help me better my reads. We'll see how things go once I start the process. (It's rather complicated, what I have planned. But the end result might end up with me nailing the entire scumteam, if I'm correct. For instance, an alternative to Amor being scum is Thor being scum, but I simply found that slightly less likely by my initial findings paired with the VCA. If I complete my planned process, that theoretically could be reversed. We'll see...)

[silverbullet999]

-Surye

Silver's on and off votes of Sub is really suspicious

I took my vote off him once and I just explained why. Read There Will Be Bloodshed.

-Max

1) This is not comitting yourself opinions. Particualry when it's the only one you have mentioned in 19 posts.

I disagree, I mention it in iso 4, iso 8 (the last part is a serious question but more or less implies hello i'm suspicious of sub)... pretty sure it's obvious i've been pretty damn cemented on sub except for when mastin hopped on saying he was scum... and I explained that.

2) Why am I winning scum points?

Lying* and making statements that are simply incorrect. (example: "No desire to look for mafia + overly concentrated on defending himself from votes")

3) Fine..I'll rephrase. What is your opinion on Subzero's case on Toon Fighter?

I don't find it interesting, though something of interest is that he more or less abandoned it and gave you credit for it

If it weren't for Maxous's points about Toon, I'd actually change my vote now.

[silverbullet999]

-Mastin
In our other game... what did VCA have you reading pine as (I honestly don't remember and want to know)?

[mastin2]

Yeah...sorry, Silver. But you really look like you're bussing SubSith, who's bussing you back. That's just my impression on reading this page nine, but the reaction between you two seems quite forced.

[silverbullet999]

-Mastin
that's fine, but what did you read pine as in VCA in there will be blood (Yes i'm basing your whole logic from that game and yes that will obviously affect me).

[mastin2]

-Mastin
In our other game... what did VCA have you reading pine as (I honestly don't remember and want to know)?

Confirmed town before I DID VCA, so called confirmed town IN the VCA.

...Okay, so not quite.

...Actually, if memory serves, I was beginning to get suspicious as to just how many times the VCA showed evidence Pine'd be scum.

My town-read was degrading on Pine from 100% to something like 95%. The VCA which implicated him multiple times bumped it down to its final level, like 80-90% sure he was town.

In other words, yes, it caught Pine. I just didn't realize it until it was too late.

[mastin2]

So, yeah. I'm going to probably be wasting hours of my time in the future analyzing the VCA I did. It looks accurate, but my conclusions (while they seem to be backed up from what little I've seen) might not be correct as of now. I'll know in a couple days or so (in-game time), but for now, I'm going to put it aside. It's served its purpose for now; I've got my head in the game.

[mastin2]

Essentially, what I'm saying?

I think my VCA nailed it, is dead-on what the scum are this game. And if not, is pretty darn close.

My conclusions, however, FROM the VCA, I am not as sure on. There's only so much I can learn from it without wasting countless hours (with no guarantee that'll work) and/or a flip (which usually helps, but doesn't always).

Current conclusions (give or take--it's not an exact science ) implicate Silver and SubSith, along with {

Amor

, Thor} and one of {

Wraith

/Surye,

Zepher

/Deity}. Bolded my current choices of the choices. We'll see how these conclusions look when compared to actual in-thread evidence.

[mastin2]

-Mastin
that's fine, but what did you read pine as in VCA in there will be blood (Yes i'm basing your whole logic from that game and yes that will obviously affect me).

Wait a sec.

Just hit me.

If my VCA implicated Pine (which it did), and you're curious about my VCA this game (which implicates you)...

...Is that a scumclaim?

(This...probably makes more sense in my head than it does to anyone else, but the chain of thought is there, if you understand my wavelength of thought. )

[mastin2]

And for the record?

Yeah, my vote is now, honestly and legitimately, a serious vote, if you couldn't tell. It's not much, but what I've seen thusfar would leave me happy with a lynch on either of 'em. (Silver, SubSith.)