Open 304 - Hard Boiled, Game Over. Was DY's Dystopia saved?

[chesskid3]

There were a few other minor issues but that was the biggest to me

[Amrun]

Did I not tell this game I was traveling and would be sparse?

(If I didn't, I meant to, which shows how attentive I've been.)

As an answer to your question about suspects, my most concrete read as far as scum goes is nameloc.

I didn't like nameloc's attack on chesskid, which I did comment on even if I didn't say nameloc's name. And then I didn't like the whole softclaiming business... I didn't like it A LOT. I don't see anyone able to explain how that could have come from town. (Maybe DH wants to take a gander?)

I have also expressed suspicion on Deity Kabuto.

At this point, everyone else is varying degrees of null to town. I have some thoughts on some null reads, but I think observing before expressing will be more fruitful there.

Succintness is not anti-town, sss. I generally post a lot of one-liners until I have a substantial case to post. I also got "called out" on short posts in CryMeARiver's recent Open, Follow the Cop ... Or Not (see link in wiki). I was town.

Rest assured that within the next several days when I am done travelling, you will see something more subtantial.

[Surye]

I still like my RC vote, but at this point, my reads are not strong enough, and I don't like nameloc either.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nameloc1989

Is a better place for my vote with this in mind.

I wants to join bandwagon
but i'z worried i'll look lke scum for it
so i'll throw 1-2 line thingy to explainz then everyonz thinks i towntowntown

Says the guy who votes with no content in the post unless prompted.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Straw man. Chesskid's made his motivations very clear. He felt like the reasoning was implied, but that's no reason to counter-argument.

[Surye]

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Straw man. Chesskid's made his motivations very clear. He felt like the reasoning was implied, but that's no reason to counter-argument.

Explaining why I don't like something is not strawman. I have to explain my perspective on it in order to convey my opinion on it.

[DeityKabuto]

-smashbro_of_the_SSS, I am keeping my vote on nameloc, I am getting a really scummy vibe from him, which I will explain why later. Chesskid... Hmm... he is really playing in an "unexplainable" fashion right now. You can't really get anything out of his posts, or his intention. He's a hard case.

[Amrun]

This is chess-town. Shame on me if I have been fooled.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Straw man. Chesskid's made his motivations very clear. He felt like the reasoning was implied, but that's no reason to counter-argument.

Explaining why I don't like something is not strawman. I have to explain my perspective on it in order to convey my opinion on it.

You're attacking something which is an altered point in order to weaken his argument. The fact that he didn't write an implied reason for his vote doesn't make his vote worthless.

[DemonHybrid]

-smashbro_of_the_SSS, I am keeping my vote on nameloc, I am getting a really scummy vibe from him, which I will explain why later. Chesskid... Hmm... he is really playing in an "unexplainable" fashion right now. You can't really get anything out of his posts, or his intention. He's a hard case.

You look worse sitting on the fence about chess, too. This is very obviously town chesskid.

[Surye]

Unvote, Vote: Surye

Straw man. Chesskid's made his motivations very clear. He felt like the reasoning was implied, but that's no reason to counter-argument.

Explaining why I don't like something is not strawman. I have to explain my perspective on it in order to convey my opinion on it.

You're attacking something which is an altered point in order to weaken his argument. The fact that he didn't write an implied reason for his vote doesn't make his vote worthless.

Interpretation.

[HellloooNewman]

-smashbro_of_the_SSS, I am keeping my vote on nameloc, I am getting a really scummy vibe from him, which I will explain why later. Chesskid... Hmm... he is really playing in an "unexplainable" fashion right now. You can't really get anything out of his posts, or his intention. He's a hard case.

Please explain now.

Vote - DeityKabuto

That's the last activity post that I will accept from you.


@RC - If asked to vote I will evaluate whether or not I agreement that said person is scum or not. If I agree I will vote. Why is this such a big question for you?

[nameloc1986]

I didn't like nameloc's attack on chesskid, which I did comment on even if I didn't say nameloc's name. And then I didn't like the whole softclaiming business... I didn't like it A LOT. I don't see anyone able to explain how that could have come from town. (Maybe DH wants to take a gander?)

I admit I effed up, but not as scum. I thought they were referring to me with the whole softclaiming business, and I had a blonde moment and just got my game mechanics mixed up. In my defense, the last open game I played (SSSS was the mod), we had a Night 0 start. I forgot this game didn't. I wasn't saying I was softclaiming, I was saying I thought they thought I was softclaiming.

nameloc thought he softclaimed as detective when he had done nothing of the sort. How can that come from town?

This is a misrep. I never said I thought I was softclaimed detective, I said I thought they thought I was softclaiming. Confusing I know. I effed up. Nothing more I can say about it.


Ummm.....Surye....what you did is a strawman. Just admit it and move on.

It's true night actions are so vital in this setup, it just that VT is still town, and could be in good player's hand "if lucky", and the thing is, it is town job to find scum, not killing each other apart.
The "hero" thing came from the fact that you kept pushing the idea of how g-o-o-d it is to aim for a VT lynch on D1, to me, it seems like try looking pro-town with "good-cover" objective.
So, obviously I'm not with you w/ D1 VT-lynch here.

RC, I just don't get it, supposed we all are agree w/ you w/ this D1 VT-lynch thing but failed in the end, I just can't see you would be satisfied and not kept pushing another VT-lynch on the next day, what make you so sure D1 will got your "happy ending" and could continue "ideally" w/ scum hunting on D2?

Why should we be convinced w/ chesskid lynch in this case? Why am I wrong in believing if you, are in the middle of tricky-scheme, directing us to the wrong lane?

Toffee, your whole case against him is how you don't agree with him. You're making

assumptions

about him that IMO have no weight. I don't necessarily agree with him either, but I don't see how he's scummy for it.

[Amrun]

Hmm.

Okay.

I still don't like nameloc's push on chesskid, but I re-read the ISO in light of his clarification and I think I can see where he was coming from. I misinterpreted.

Then I read Surye becaiuse she seheeped my flawed case.

Surye wins the new scum award.

[unvote; Vote: Surye]

I'm not ready to call nameloc town, but I'll drop him to null.

Deity Kabuto still suspicious, but I'm stuck at "dumb or scum?"

[Surye]

Hmm.

Okay.

I still don't like nameloc's push on chesskid, but I re-read the ISO in light of his clarification and I think I can see where he was coming from. I misinterpreted.

Then I read Surye becaiuse she seheeped my flawed case.

Surye wins the new scum award.

[unvote; Vote: Surye]

I'm not ready to call nameloc town, but I'll drop him to null.

Deity Kabuto still suspicious, but I'm stuck at "dumb or scum?"

The way you throw the word "sheep" around is anti-town. You make town fear agreeing with cases, so it causes more arguments than debates, no one can change their mind, everyone has to stay stubborn for fear of "sheeping", and the town suffers for it.

And to all the strawman stuff, please.

[DemonHybrid]

A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]

As an example...

Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"

What happened here:

Chess: Surye, you wanted to join the bandwagon but you're worried you'll look like scum for it.
Surye: Well, you didn't explain it until someone prompted it, so therefore the argument has no merit.

[Amrun]

Okay, perhaps sheeping wasn't the best word there.

Either way, I think you agreed with me too easily in light of me being mistaken in the first place.

P-edit: I also disagree with the use of the word straw man, but still find the post it wasapplied to scummy.

[DeityKabuto]

-smashbro_of_the_SSS, I am keeping my vote on nameloc, I am getting a really scummy vibe from him, which I will explain why later. Chesskid... Hmm... he is really playing in an "unexplainable" fashion right now. You can't really get anything out of his posts, or his intention. He's a hard case.

Please explain now.

Vote - DeityKabuto

That's the last activity post that I will accept from you.


@RC - If asked to vote I will evaluate whether or not I agreement that said person is scum or not. If I agree I will vote. Why is this such a big question for you?

Sorry, but that would defeat my purpose of placing a vote on him.

[HellloooNewman]

-smashbro_of_the_SSS, I am keeping my vote on nameloc, I am getting a really scummy vibe from him, which I will explain why later. Chesskid... Hmm... he is really playing in an "unexplainable" fashion right now. You can't really get anything out of his posts, or his intention. He's a hard case.

Please explain now.

Vote - DeityKabuto

That's the last activity post that I will accept from you.


@RC - If asked to vote I will evaluate whether or not I agreement that said person is scum or not. If I agree I will vote. Why is this such a big question for you?

Sorry, but that would defeat my purpose of placing a vote on him.

Explaining your vote defeats the purpose of your vote? The Fuck?

BTW, nice activity post scum.

[chesskid3]

This is chess-town. Shame on me if I have been fooled.

I have a posse now

this is so cool

[RedCoyote]

One person, doesn't matter, you're pushing for the idea of it. We're all reading it, and if there's anything to it, you're counting on it.

I want HN to use his vote, yes. That vote is an important piece of information for us to analyze later in the game. If he's not going to use it, or is afraid to, then I want him to have to be put on the spotlight for that. Town shouldn't be afraid to use their vote. Scum, on the other hand, have to be much more careful and premeditate what consequences their vote will have on their game.

Now, I still read you as saying this, and I have no problems assuming what you are up to, to explain why I voted, and why I think it's bad or good. I don't know why you think that is a bad thing.

You may have to explain this to me again because you lost me. The point I'm making is that SSSS was more inquisitive about my strategy (as opposed to, say, you or toffee who just assumed I was scum trying to manipulate the town).

---

it is town job to find scum, not killing each other apart.

If your opinion is that I'm trying to lynch town, then you're incorrect. That's not my intention. My intention is to lynch scum. I just want everyone to understand that lynching a VT on D1 without any other claims, given this setup, is a satisfactory outcome.

Why should we be convinced w/ chesskid lynch in this case?

There's no chess "case". If I was wanting chess lynched right now, I'd be rallying y'all to the wagon. It's just a spot to keep my vote because I think, if the day ended right now, he'd be the one I'd most want lynched. I would not prefer him lynched right now (nor would I anyone).

---

so amrun, commit. aside from nameloc, who are your suspects?

This is solid.

---

I wants to join bandwagon
but i'z worried i'll look lke scum for it
so i'll throw 1-2 line thingy to explainz then everyonz thinks i towntowntown

Yeah, it's a very awkward shift in a very short time frame.

---

This is chess-town. Shame on me if I have been fooled.

Let's not go crazy. I like his offense, granted, but we still have a long way to go together.

---

Please explain now.

Vote - DeityKabuto

Okay, I like this. That chess statement DK made was just flat out spineless. I still don't think I've got a firm answer as to why he got on chess' case earlier, and I shudder to think it's from an ongoing game that chess hasn't flipped in yet. That's just silly.

If asked to vote I will evaluate whether or not I agreement that said person is scum or not. If I agree I will vote. Why is this such a big question for you?

Because if someone is going to be protective of their vote, especially if they're active otherwise, then I want them to have to defend their non-voting. See my comments to Surye above if you want more elaboration.

In any case, I'm happy with your vote, and think I'll join you.

Unvote

;

vote: DeityKabuto

I also want to say that I'm happy Surye is getting pressure from DH. Good stuff.

---

I admit I effed up, but not as scum. I thought they were referring to me with the whole softclaiming business, and I had a blonde moment and just got my game mechanics mixed up. In my defense, the last open game I played (SSSS was the mod), we had a Night 0 start. I forgot this game didn't. I wasn't saying I was softclaiming, I was saying I thought they thought I was softclaiming.

This is almost pure gut talking, but I just get a feeling this is too convoluted to be a scum explanation. It sounds like nameloc is just truly trying to explain himself here.

nameloc, just to make sure we're all on the same page, could you give us that link to that Open game you're talking about (if it's finished)?

---

Sorry, but that would defeat my purpose of placing a vote on him.

This is just silly. In other words, you can't explain your vote.

[DeityKabuto]

@RedCoyote

I will explain my vote, but if I did it now, than nameloc would have it way much easier.

@HeloooNewman

Also, notice how nameloc isn't posting as much, a bit scummy to me.

Unvote
Vote HellloooNewman

You sir, are fucking contradicting yourself. Earlier in the game, I had ask you TWO fucking questions, and you avoid them, and now you vote me for avoiding your fucking questions, DID I place a vote on you? No. I don't think so.

You are scum enough to me, trying to ease your way in making it not obvious that you are defending nameloc, but at the same time turning the tables to DK trying to form a bandwagon, makes me laugh.

[HellloooNewman]

Really bro? REALLY?

OMGUS anyone?

If you REALLY

REALLY

must have answers to your BURNING questions, here they are:

Question #1 - "What hand raising"?

Answer #1 - You see, as my first post, I said "Who else is town, raise your hand". Then several posts go by, without people "raising their hand". After someone even acknowledges my post, indicating that they like it, I said that I was "disturbed by the lack of hand raising". It is called being jovial.

Question #2 - "Who are my suspects at the moment"?

Answer #2 - You. You make a grand effort at staying active, but what you have said so far has made me scratch my head to wonder if you and I are from the same planet, let alone are we playing the same game.

@HellloooNewman

What I'm thinking now is that we are both just townies who feel suspicion against each other. I have been put in the position you are in as how a townie gets really upset or defensive when attacked innocently. But in the game that I was like that, I only made myself look worse and nobody believed me. I am not saying that you are scum or anything, I am just saying that we should both try to scumhunt now.

Allow me to translate what you said above. "HN is the only one seeing through my bullshit and is calling me out on it. I need to buddy up to him, to make him stop attacking me."

Not gonna work bro.


PS - Your OMGUS vote makes you look REAL bad. Just sayin'.

[chesskid3]

DK is scum counterwagon peeps
plz don't be fooled

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: DeityKabuto

"You didn't answer the questions people find me scummy for!"

/facepalm

[chesskid3]

DK is scum counterwagon peeps
plz don't be fooled