Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[Faraday]

Well I'm more-so thinking vig/gunsmith/neighbouriser vs 3 scum would be balanced if they were full town power roles (well maybe not vig) but with them being 1-shot i find it hard to believe.

And I don't see Mike/bub scumteam. I'm working from POE here and saying it's cecily/mike with cecily having a better chance of being actual scumscum if this is a traitor set-up.

[Rhinox]

Votecount 4.2

Faraday (1) - Cecily
Bub Bidderskins (1) - mikemike778
mikemike778 (1) - Bub Bidderskins
Setael (0) -
Cecily (2) - Setael, havingfitz
havingfitz (0) -

not voting (1): Faraday

Deadline is

Sunday, May 22nd at 4PM.

With 6 alive, it is 4 to lynch.

Cecily is V/LA until Sunday.

[mikemike778]

So mikemike has a chance to hammer Cecily but is waiting for some reason. What was the reason again?

The reason is simple ... Bub should be lynched. Cec is probs my second choice but at Mylo I'm not just going to hammer my second choice willy nilly when it could cost us the game. There's another week till the deadline after all.

[mikemike778]

If Bub was town and Cecily is scum as many suspect...I think she had a short window to hammer Bub for the win (assuming 2 scum left).

Any idea how long the window was ? Cec didn't post so she must have come onto the site to read, she's not playing any other games so she must have been reading this. And if she was scum, the first thing you want to look at in Mylo or Lylo is whether there is any chance to hammer for the win knowing that as soon as you are spotted online an unvote is possible.

If there was any sort of window at all then a Bub Town, Cec scum combination looks highly unlikely.

[Faraday]

Need more Bub itt.

[havingfitz]

When I saw her online I immediately unvoted. At the time I thought Bub was at L-1 but as I look back I see Setael had unvoted Bub 15 minutes prior to my unvote...which I had not noticed when I unvoted. I do not know if Cecily had been online prior to Setael unvoting Bub when he actually was at L-1 so that is a null now. I do know however that she has been on since her last post and not commented on the recent attention towards her.

[Bub Bidderskins]

But then why didn't you counter-claim when Voided claimed? This is what you had to say on the subject:

Not buying the Voided wagon yet. Maybe WIFOM but I don't see a scum with a guilty claiming Neighbour/izer. If he was scum, he would probs assume the claim was legit - if he was going to fake claim why fake claim a relatively minor role as opposed to a Doc or Normal Cop to try and draw them out. After all, without Rat's revelation Voided would have been lynched fairly quickly.

Why didn't you? The answer is simple: because you knew that Voided was town. You knew that if you counter-claimed, and voided was lynched, then the suspision would fall onto you. A townie would instantly jump onto somebody who claimed their exact same role, but you backed off and distanced yourself from that very wagon.

CONFIRM VOTE: MIKEMIKE

Lol ...

You are getting desperate now aren't you ? Why would I counter-claim it wouldn't confirm anything one way or another all it would do would be to provide free information to the bad guys (if they knew I was neighbourizer then they knew I wasn't anything more important).

If I counter-claimed it would be because I thought scum had lied about the role - I didn't think that, given the co-incidence, I was pretty confident Voided hadn't just made the role up, believed his claim and therefore thought he was probably town. I wanted to defend his claim (when people were trying to lynch him just for mixing up neighbour/izer) and deter a wagon on him without actually claiming myself and giving the info away.

Again to claim that my response is scum motivated is just illogical.

If you were town, then that would not have been your thought process. Catching scum would be well worth giving up such trivial information as the fact that you are a neighborizer. The counter-claim would have made it evident that Voided was lying and he would have been lynched for sure. However, you knew that Voided would flip town and so you didn't want to counter-claim because then you would come under fire for it the next day.

The scumteam is Cec/MikeMike, but Mike is confirmed scum at this point.

[Setael]

If there was any sort of window at all then a Bub Town, Cec scum combination looks highly unlikely.

Unless it's not mylo.

[mikemike778]

But then why didn't you counter-claim when Voided claimed? This is what you had to say on the subject:

Not buying the Voided wagon yet. Maybe WIFOM but I don't see a scum with a guilty claiming Neighbour/izer. If he was scum, he would probs assume the claim was legit - if he was going to fake claim why fake claim a relatively minor role as opposed to a Doc or Normal Cop to try and draw them out. After all, without Rat's revelation Voided would have been lynched fairly quickly.

Why didn't you? The answer is simple: because you knew that Voided was town. You knew that if you counter-claimed, and voided was lynched, then the suspision would fall onto you. A townie would instantly jump onto somebody who claimed their exact same role, but you backed off and distanced yourself from that very wagon.

CONFIRM VOTE: MIKEMIKE

Lol ...

You are getting desperate now aren't you ? Why would I counter-claim it wouldn't confirm anything one way or another all it would do would be to provide free information to the bad guys (if they knew I was neighbourizer then they knew I wasn't anything more important).

If I counter-claimed it would be because I thought scum had lied about the role - I didn't think that, given the co-incidence, I was pretty confident Voided hadn't just made the role up, believed his claim and therefore thought he was probably town. I wanted to defend his claim (when people were trying to lynch him just for mixing up neighbour/izer) and deter a wagon on him without actually claiming myself and giving the info away.

Again to claim that my response is scum motivated is just illogical.

If you were town, then that would not have been your thought process. Catching scum would be well worth giving up such trivial information as the fact that you are a neighborizer. The counter-claim would have made it evident that Voided was lying and he would have been lynched for sure. However, you knew that Voided would flip town and so you didn't want to counter-claim because then you would come under fire for it the next day.

The scumteam is Cec/MikeMike, but Mike is confirmed scum at this point.

How would a counter-claim have made it evident that Voided was lying then ? Given its essentially a vanilla role, the odds on 2 town Neighbourizers are about the same as the odds on 1 on each side I'd have thought. All my role proved was that its unlikely Voided entirely fake claimed - sure it was possible he could be mafia neighbourizer but it was unlikely he'd just made up the role - too much of a co-incidence. In fact it did cross my mind, we could even end up with half the players as neighbourizers or something like that.

You have known I was a neighbourizer since the beginning of Day 3, you have known Voided claimed Neighbourizer since Day 1 and you have known Pine claimed tracker since day 2. Its pretty certain that since being neighboured, you would have ISOd me to prepare for night but never once mentioned me as suspicious in fact wasn't I on your list of cleared town players despite the above which you apparently have now decided for some reason makes me scum. Then again you do like changing your reasons on who is scum for pretty much nothing don't you? Wasn't it PT you classed as confirmed town but then immediately switched to your number 1 target on the grounds he attacked me. Guess you didn't think I was scummy then did you despite knowing the above?

You've managed to skirt around the entire game being as inconspicious as possible, sheeping where possible and generally doing your best to seem as uncontraversial as possible To be honest, you'd have been better off sticking to that game plan, if this is the best you can come up with in terms of putting together a fake case.

You are the confirmed scum I'm afraid. Cec may or may not be your buddy (if you have one) but you need to be lynched today.

[havingfitz]

If you were town, then that would not have been your thought process. Catching scum would be well worth giving up such trivial information as the fact that you are a neighborizer. The counter-claim would have made it evident that Voided was lying and he would have been lynched for sure. However, you knew that Voided would flip town and so you didn't want to counter-claim because then you would come under fire for it the next day.

The scumteam is Cec/MikeMike, but Mike is confirmed scum at this point.

Why would mikemike assume he was catching Void in a lie? If mikemike was/is town...he wouldn't be sure of Void's alignment and he would probably feel the claim (not the alignment) was legitimate. If he had counter claimed as you mention Void probably would have been more assured of being lynched than he already was. I'm not saying mikemike is town but your continued push on him seems very contrived and based on a lot of imagination.

Also,

As far as him not getting a tracker result when you targetted him, I doubt that's true.

Bub...what are you talking about here? What result are you talking about from when who targetted who? You aren't referring to Pine's fake tracker claim and the result he said he got on mikemike are you?

And how does mikemike's actions around the time Void claimed make him scummy? You say he should have immediately counter claimed. How many times have any of us ever seen a 1-shot Neighborizor in a game? If I had got that role PM I would have been like...whuh? And to have that role and see another player claim the exact same role had to make a player really wonder what was going on. I would have taken the claim as truthful (whether I was a scum or town neighborizor). How would mikemike KNOW that Void was town? Based on Void's claim or based on the fact you think he [mikemike] is scum? When you were neighborized by mikemike did any of the QT conversation revolve around the fact that there we two 1-shot neighborizors in the game?

...you knew that Voided was town. You knew that if you counter-claimed, and voided was lynched, then the suspision would fall onto you. A townie would instantly jump onto somebody who claimed their exact same role, but you backed off and distanced yourself from that very wagon.

I'm not sure mikemike ever backed off Void...I don't recall him ever being ON Void to begin with. What would mikemike coming out and claiming 1-shot neighborizor in response to Void's claim have accomplished? It would have either sealed Void's fate (which wasn't necessary) or just confused people's views towards mikemike (whether he was town or scum). If I was scum and had a 1-shot neighborizor role I'm not sure if I would have ever even botherd to use it after Void's claim. I think I would have avoided using it and if the need to claim came up later in the game...either claim VT or some other PR fakeclaim that did not mirror Voids's.

tl:dr; I'm not sure mikemike's actions are as unreasonable as you have portrayed them to be Bub.

Who are your #2 and #3 suspects Bub?

[havingfitz]

Me - Post #1134 » Thu May 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Bub - Last visited: Thu May 12, 2011 10:20 pm

Bub...why no response to the above?

[Bub Bidderskins]

But then why didn't you counter-claim when Voided claimed? This is what you had to say on the subject:

Not buying the Voided wagon yet. Maybe WIFOM but I don't see a scum with a guilty claiming Neighbour/izer. If he was scum, he would probs assume the claim was legit - if he was going to fake claim why fake claim a relatively minor role as opposed to a Doc or Normal Cop to try and draw them out. After all, without Rat's revelation Voided would have been lynched fairly quickly.

Why didn't you? The answer is simple: because you knew that Voided was town. You knew that if you counter-claimed, and voided was lynched, then the suspision would fall onto you. A townie would instantly jump onto somebody who claimed their exact same role, but you backed off and distanced yourself from that very wagon.

CONFIRM VOTE: MIKEMIKE

Lol ...

You are getting desperate now aren't you ? Why would I counter-claim it wouldn't confirm anything one way or another all it would do would be to provide free information to the bad guys (if they knew I was neighbourizer then they knew I wasn't anything more important).

If I counter-claimed it would be because I thought scum had lied about the role - I didn't think that, given the co-incidence, I was pretty confident Voided hadn't just made the role up, believed his claim and therefore thought he was probably town. I wanted to defend his claim (when people were trying to lynch him just for mixing up neighbour/izer) and deter a wagon on him without actually claiming myself and giving the info away.

Again to claim that my response is scum motivated is just illogical.

If you were town, then that would not have been your thought process. Catching scum would be well worth giving up such trivial information as the fact that you are a neighborizer. The counter-claim would have made it evident that Voided was lying and he would have been lynched for sure. However, you knew that Voided would flip town and so you didn't want to counter-claim because then you would come under fire for it the next day.

The scumteam is Cec/MikeMike, but Mike is confirmed scum at this point.

How would a counter-claim have made it evident that Voided was lying then ? Given its essentially a vanilla role, the odds on 2 town Neighbourizers are about the same as the odds on 1 on each side I'd have thought. All my role proved was that its unlikely Voided entirely fake claimed - sure it was possible he could be mafia neighbourizer but it was unlikely he'd just made up the role - too much of a co-incidence. In fact it did cross my mind, we could even end up with half the players as neighbourizers or something like that.

You have known I was a neighbourizer since the beginning of Day 3, you have known Voided claimed Neighbourizer since Day 1 and you have known Pine claimed tracker since day 2. Its pretty certain that since being neighboured, you would have ISOd me to prepare for night but never once mentioned me as suspicious in fact wasn't I on your list of cleared town players despite the above which you apparently have now decided for some reason makes me scum. Then again you do like changing your reasons on who is scum for pretty much nothing don't you? Wasn't it PT you classed as confirmed town but then immediately switched to your number 1 target on the grounds he attacked me. Guess you didn't think I was scummy then did you despite knowing the above?

You've managed to skirt around the entire game being as inconspicious as possible, sheeping where possible and generally doing your best to seem as uncontraversial as possible To be honest, you'd have been better off sticking to that game plan, if this is the best you can come up with in terms of putting together a fake case.

You are the confirmed scum I'm afraid. Cec may or may not be your buddy (if you have one) but you need to be lynched today.

Counter claiming would make it evident that Voided was lying. It is quite rare for there to be two neighborizers in the same game. Your hesitance to do so reads as scummy to me.

Also, the timing of when I brought these arguments up is irrelavent to their legitimacy.

If you were town, then that would not have been your thought process. Catching scum would be well worth giving up such trivial information as the fact that you are a neighborizer. The counter-claim would have made it evident that Voided was lying and he would have been lynched for sure. However, you knew that Voided would flip town and so you didn't want to counter-claim because then you would come under fire for it the next day.

The scumteam is Cec/MikeMike, but Mike is confirmed scum at this point.

Why would mikemike assume he was catching Void in a lie? If mikemike was/is town...he wouldn't be sure of Void's alignment and he would probably feel the claim (not the alignment) was legitimate. If he had counter claimed as you mention Void probably would have been more assured of being lynched than he already was. I'm not saying mikemike is town but your continued push on him seems very contrived and based on a lot of imagination.

Also,

As far as him not getting a tracker result when you targetted him, I doubt that's true.

Bub...what are you talking about here? What result are you talking about from when who targetted who? You aren't referring to Pine's fake tracker claim and the result he said he got on mikemike are you?

And how does mikemike's actions around the time Void claimed make him scummy? You say he should have immediately counter claimed. How many times have any of us ever seen a 1-shot Neighborizor in a game? If I had got that role PM I would have been like...whuh? And to have that role and see another player claim the exact same role had to make a player really wonder what was going on. I would have taken the claim as truthful (whether I was a scum or town neighborizor). How would mikemike KNOW that Void was town? Based on Void's claim or based on the fact you think he [mikemike] is scum? When you were neighborized by mikemike did any of the QT conversation revolve around the fact that there we two 1-shot neighborizors in the game?

...you knew that Voided was town. You knew that if you counter-claimed, and voided was lynched, then the suspision would fall onto you. A townie would instantly jump onto somebody who claimed their exact same role, but you backed off and distanced yourself from that very wagon.

I'm not sure mikemike ever backed off Void...I don't recall him ever being ON Void to begin with. What would mikemike coming out and claiming 1-shot neighborizor in response to Void's claim have accomplished? It would have either sealed Void's fate (which wasn't necessary) or just confused people's views towards mikemike (whether he was town or scum). If I was scum and had a 1-shot neighborizor role I'm not sure if I would have ever even botherd to use it after Void's claim. I think I would have avoided using it and if the need to claim came up later in the game...either claim VT or some other PR fakeclaim that did not mirror Voids's.

tl:dr; I'm not sure mikemike's actions are as unreasonable as you have portrayed them to be Bub.

Who are your #2 and #3 suspects Bub?

Sorry I didn't comment on this earlier when I was on, but I didn't have the time at that point to make a good, well thought out post do to RL concerns.

Your defense of MikeMike is noted, but I don't see why a townsperson would not counter-claim at that point, and none of the discussion in the QT revolved around that fact at all. Furthermore, you are suggesting that you not use the Neighborizer claim then to catch what a pro-town person would view as scum in order to perserve a fakeclaim for later in the game. That is simply anti-town and exactly what scum would think. And the question isn't about what would have occured if he had counter-claimed, the question is: why didn't he? To this point, the only reasonable answer that I can come up with is: because he's scum.

FYI: My number two and three suspects are you and Cecily. You may still be a traitor despite the gunsmith investigation, and your shameless defense of MikeMike is noted.

[Faraday]

vote cecily

zzzzzzzz pro town move. wanna see what happens. I get angsty waiting around.

[Setael]

It's not like she just replaced in and read 100 pages, right?

[A Gaggle of Geese]

EXACTLY!

[Faraday]

oops. that was me.

[mikemike778]

Sorry I didn't comment on this earlier when I was on, but I didn't have the time at that point to make a good, well thought out post do to RL concerns.

Your defense of MikeMike is noted, but I don't see why a townsperson would not counter-claim at that point, and none of the discussion in the QT revolved around that fact at all. Furthermore, you are suggesting that you not use the Neighborizer claim then to catch what a pro-town person would view as scum in order to perserve a fakeclaim for later in the game. That is simply anti-town and exactly what scum would think. And the question isn't about what would have occured if he had counter-claimed, the question is: why didn't he? To this point, the only reasonable answer that I can come up with is: because he's scum.

FYI: My number two and three suspects are you and Cecily. You may still be a traitor despite the gunsmith investigation, and your shameless defense of MikeMike is noted.

Like I've said ... claiming would in no way help to catch scum. All it would do is give free information to the bad guys and prevent me from using my power to catch scum later on. If my Night 1 Neighbourizer attempt had worked then it would have 100% confirmed Pine. Still I guess you think it would be better to piss that chance down the drain in order to make a day 1 claim that would prove absolutely nothing.

Oh yes, of course you would think that as you are scum, forgot that for a second.

Anyway you never did explain why you thought that it might be worth us claiming at daybreak. Only rational explanation is that you are the traitor and wanted to communicate my role to your scum buddy.

[Faraday]

Zzzz mike hammer the scum.

[Faraday]

I promise it'll be worth it when she FLIPS

[havingfitz]

Counter claiming would make it evident that Voided was lying. It is quite rare for there to be two neighborizers in the same game. Your hesitance to do so reads as scummy to me.

If mikemike was town....how would he know Void was lying? And this:

And how does mikemike's actions around the time Void claimed make him scummy? You say he should have immediately counter claimed. How many times have any of us ever seen a 1-shot Neighborizor in a game? If I had got that role PM I would have been like...whuh? And to have that role and see another player claim the exact same role had to make a player really wonder what was going on. I would have taken the claim as truthful (whether I was a scum or town neighborizor). How would mikemike KNOW that Void was town? Based on Void's claim or based on the fact you think he [mikemike] is scum?

Your defense of MikeMike is noted, but I don't see why a townsperson would not counter-claim at that point, and none of the discussion in the QT revolved around that fact at all. Furthermore, you are suggesting that you not use the Neighborizer claim then to catch what a pro-town person would view as scum in order to perserve a fakeclaim for later in the game. That is simply anti-town and exactly what scum would think. And the question isn't about what would have occured if he had counter-claimed, the question is: why didn't he? To this point, the only reasonable answer that I can come up with is: because he's scum.

FYI: My number two and three suspects are you and Cecily. You may still be a traitor despite the gunsmith investigation, and your shameless defense of MikeMike is noted.

Why is it taking you until now to suspect mikemike? Why did you not express suspicions in the QT or voice/share suspicions when D3 started? Instead...you spend the day targetting chkflp (town) and PT/Faraday (who I don't see anyone doubting as town) AND you agree with Nacho that mikemike is town. If mikemike's actions surrounding his silence when Void claimed are so suspicious to you now...why weren't they brought up in the QT or when D3 began?

You also state that Cecily and chkflp (town) are not the same alignment.

Plus I still have not seen a response to this:

As far as him not getting a tracker result when you targetted him, I doubt that's true.

Bub...what are you talking about here? What result are you talking about from when who targetted who? You aren't referring to Pine's fake tracker claim and the result he said he got on mikemike are you?

And finally...despite stating your assumption that there are three scum in this game, you are now content to modify Faraday's result on me by calling me a traitor and bumping Cecily (who has been high on your list for much of yesterday and who you should find scum based on chkflp flipping town) down below me.

"Noting" my defense of mikemike is amusing. I'm not defending mikemike..I'm pointing out areas of your case on him that I do not find valid. If you could have made a good point on him I would not have had an issue with it.

tl:dr;

Bub really comes across as scum the more I look at his recent posts and his push on mikemike today for suspicions that would have been just as valid yesterday if they had been voiced makes me believe he is scum just pushing for another mislynch. If more people suspect Bub than Cecily I would switch. I view them as equally scummy at this point.

EXACTLY!

Damb you have a lot of alts.

[mikemike778]

I picked Bub to try and get some information on him and figure out a read. With that in mind, its time to have a little look at what he said in the QT, to see if there's anything else in there to confirm his scum spot.

Hmm... so his main scum suspects are Fitz, Satael and Cec.

He explained his Fitz suspicion in some detail, coming up with a case based on voting analysis. Not sure why he had never brought this up before (is stating a full case in a QT and never bringing it up in the main thread standard practice, seems a bit weird to me?).

Satael is an interesting one. I suppose its fairly logical in that he (Bub) has had everyone as his top suspect at some time but other than that. Care to explain why you suspected him then Bud ? Do you really think that Sat attacking Fitz meant that Sat was scum ?

Cec ... he probably had to mention her I guess given that was probably considering her a possible mislynch target.

So who wasn't one of Bub's suspects then ? Well me obviously and Bub himself of course. Plus Nacho but then again if Bub isn't a traitor then hes knows Nacho was to be Night Killed so no surprise there. Other one was Faraday. Interesting that one. That'll be Faraday (PT) who was confirmed town by Bub then confirmed scum by Bub when he voted him now he's back to confirmed town again. All in the space of Day 3.

[Faraday]

mikemike is waffling and doesn't want to hammah his scumbag boss.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Counter claiming would make it evident that Voided was lying. It is quite rare for there to be two neighborizers in the same game. Your hesitance to do so reads as scummy to me.

If mikemike was town....how would he know Void was lying? And this:

And how does mikemike's actions around the time Void claimed make him scummy? You say he should have immediately counter claimed. How many times have any of us ever seen a 1-shot Neighborizor in a game? If I had got that role PM I would have been like...whuh? And to have that role and see another player claim the exact same role had to make a player really wonder what was going on. I would have taken the claim as truthful (whether I was a scum or town neighborizor). How would mikemike KNOW that Void was town? Based on Void's claim or based on the fact you think he [mikemike] is scum?

Your defense of MikeMike is noted, but I don't see why a townsperson would not counter-claim at that point, and none of the discussion in the QT revolved around that fact at all. Furthermore, you are suggesting that you not use the Neighborizer claim then to catch what a pro-town person would view as scum in order to perserve a fakeclaim for later in the game. That is simply anti-town and exactly what scum would think. And the question isn't about what would have occured if he had counter-claimed, the question is: why didn't he? To this point, the only reasonable answer that I can come up with is: because he's scum.

FYI: My number two and three suspects are you and Cecily. You may still be a traitor despite the gunsmith investigation, and your shameless defense of MikeMike is noted.

Why is it taking you until now to suspect mikemike? Why did you not express suspicions in the QT or voice/share suspicions when D3 started? Instead...you spend the day targetting chkflp (town) and PT/Faraday (who I don't see anyone doubting as town) AND you agree with Nacho that mikemike is town. If mikemike's actions surrounding his silence when Void claimed are so suspicious to you now...why weren't they brought up in the QT or when D3 began?

You also state that Cecily and chkflp (town) are not the same alignment.

Again, the fact that I did not bring up that argument sooner in no way makes the argument less legitimate. It was only after I decided to to re-think through this game during MYLO that I came across that argument. If I had thought of it sooner, I would have brought it up sooner. When I saw that, I was instant convinced that MikeMike was scum, hence me voting for him.

Plus I still have not seen a response to this:

As far as him not getting a tracker result when you targetted him, I doubt that's true.

Bub...what are you talking about here? What result are you talking about from when who targetted who? You aren't referring to Pine's fake tracker claim and the result he said he got on mikemike are you?

Sorry for not answering that. Man, I really botched those pro-nouns, didn't I? I meant was that I highly doubt that a tracker would not get a result on MikeMike. Basically, I think that a tracker would have gotten a result and MikeMike is BSing.

And finally...despite stating your assumption that there are three scum in this game, you are now content to modify Faraday's result on me by calling me a traitor and bumping Cecily (who has been high on your list for much of yesterday and who you should find scum based on chkflp flipping town) down below me.

I didn't modify his results at all, you could still be a traitor. However, from my understanding of the traitor role, if we lynch all the scum (MikeMike) then the game's over and we win. If we lynch scum today and the game continues, then you're cleared. So you don't have to be worried about being lynched at all.

"Noting" my defense of mikemike is amusing. I'm not defending mikemike..I'm pointing out areas of your case on him that I do not find valid. If you could have made a good point on him I would not have had an issue with it.

That amounts to defending him, regardless of how you try to paint it.

tl:dr;

Bub really comes across as scum the more I look at his recent posts and his push on mikemike today for suspicions that would have been just as valid yesterday if they had been voiced makes me believe he is scum just pushing for another mislynch. If more people suspect Bub than Cecily I would switch. I view them as equally scummy at this point.

Yes, and they are also just as valid today as they would have been yesterday. The timing is irrelavent: MikeMike is scum.

@Faraday: How many accounts do you have?

[Bub Bidderskins]

I picked Bub to try and get some information on him and figure out a read. With that in mind, its time to have a little look at what he said in the QT, to see if there's anything else in there to confirm his scum spot.

Hmm... so his main scum suspects are Fitz, Satael and Cec.

He explained his Fitz suspicion in some detail, coming up with a case based on voting analysis. Not sure why he had never brought this up before (is stating a full case in a QT and never bringing it up in the main thread standard practice, seems a bit weird to me?).

Satael is an interesting one. I suppose its fairly logical in that he (Bub) has had everyone as his top suspect at some time but other than that. Care to explain why you suspected him then Bud ? Do you really think that Sat attacking Fitz meant that Sat was scum ?

Cec ... he probably had to mention her I guess given that was probably considering her a possible mislynch target.

So who wasn't one of Bub's suspects then ? Well me obviously and Bub himself of course. Plus Nacho but then again if Bub isn't a traitor then hes knows Nacho was to be Night Killed so no surprise there. Other one was Faraday. Interesting that one. That'll be Faraday (PT) who was confirmed town by Bub then confirmed scum by Bub when he voted him now he's back to confirmed town again. All in the space of Day 3.

Five stars for misrepping me completely. Obviously the combination of Faraday's claim and me discovering your obv scum behaviour earier in the game have altered my reads somewhat. I never said that PT was confirmed scum. I jumped the gun in saying he was "confirmed town" the first time, but this time around I seriously doubt that Faraday/PT is scum given the claims.

[havingfitz]

Bub...are you or are you not suspicious of mikemike for the sole reason of his claim and how he acted D1 following Void's 1-shot neighborizor claim?

Assuming that to be the "obv scum behaviour earier in the game"...how could it be that you only realized it here on D4? To the extent that you say

"When I saw that, I was instant convinced that MikeMike was scum,"

. How could it only dawn on you now when you were aware of Void's claim, you know he was lynched D1, and on N2 you happen to get (I assume) a PM from the mod stating you have been neigbored by mikemike and you then proceed to have discussions with him in a QT.

sO YOU'RE IN A qt WITH MIKEMIKE AND YOU AREN'T EVEN THINKING (PARDON THE caps) that it odd there is another 1-shot in the game. You don't mention it in the QT and you don't bring it up at all on D3. Instead you focus on trying to lynch (as we now know and/or assume) town. You suspected Cecily before your sudden realization there was another neighborizor. Why not now?

I think this is all a valid line of questioning and hypoithesizing as you are doing in your case against mikemike.