New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[mastin2]

I realized that as well immediately after I made the post and was thinking, "oh, crud, I hope I didn't just get myself modkilled". In Hindsight, probably shoulda been something like

HoS: Silver

.

(Also, to clarify--I don't want anyone hammering yet, even after Silver claims. I don't want a premature hammer to happen, and my experience is that when someone's put to L-1...they're almost universally hammered, anyway, despite the request not to. Sometimes it's the player at L-1 in question, too, if scum [or really emotional town]. Or it could be dumb-town. You get the idea. Lots of reasons why I prefer not to put someone at L-1 so soon.)

[silverbullet999]

Ladies and Gents

I am

V to the T

Vanilla Townie

[Pine]

Soon? It's been 10 days, and we already have at least one strong lead for D2, as well as other based on Silver's flip. There've been a lot of connections between people drawn, I'm comfortable moving on.

Then again, I'm accustomed to very short days, so I might be biased.

[SubzeroSith]

I'm very interested in people who haven't really said much about the silver case. I'm looking at you, Uite.

And Nothing Special, if he is actually in this game, hasn't really shown it.

Wraith, I know you hate D1, but you've got to have SOME thoughts on all these backs and forwards.

There's probably another lurker or two than I'm forgetting about. Can you guys please start playing?

[MrZepher]

I'm attempting but I'm having genuine trouble figuring out what to make of everything. //Confused
I have time tomorrow to devote to a reread so I'll do that in the meantime... (and by tomorrow I apparently mean later today. hmmmm...)

[mastin2]

My vote remains firmly parked on SubSith.

[Uite]

I'm very interested in people who haven't really said much about the silver case. I'm looking at you, Uite.

In case you didn't notice, Silverbullet is on my list of town reads. It's mostly based on meta, but he's really playing like town-SB. I know he's usually a bit random and out there, which always makes him look mildly scummy. Now the trick to deciphering whether he's town or scum is to look at how much sense he's making. I've found that when he's scum, he'll just say whatever, without any coherence at all, but if he's town, you can easily see the thought patterns behind his posts. This game is an obvious case of the latter, so much so that he's one of the few I'm willing to confidently say is Town.

I'm sure there's scum on this wagon, taking advantage of SB's default scumminess. Looking at voting patterns, DeityKabuto clearly stands out. He's placed three votes so far, and all have been on well-developed wagons. He was the fourth vote on the Toon wagon, third on Pine, and fifth on SB's. Looking at his iso, it's a menagerie of stating the obvious, without much thought or analysis, like he's not actually trying to scumhunt.

UNVOTE: Toon Fighter
VOTE: DeityKabuto

[DeityKabuto]

I'm very interested in people who haven't really said much about the silver case. I'm looking at you, Uite.

In case you didn't notice, Silverbullet is on my list of town reads. It's mostly based on meta, but he's really playing like town-SB. I know he's usually a bit random and out there, which always makes him look mildly scummy. Now the trick to deciphering whether he's town or scum is to look at how much sense he's making. I've found that when he's scum, he'll just say whatever, without any coherence at all, but if he's town, you can easily see the thought patterns behind his posts. This game is an obvious case of the latter, so much so that he's one of the few I'm willing to confidently say is Town.

I'm sure there's scum on this wagon, taking advantage of SB's default scumminess. Looking at voting patterns, DeityKabuto clearly stands out. He's placed three votes so far, and all have been on well-developed wagons. He was the fourth vote on the Toon wagon, third on Pine, and fifth on SB's. Looking at his iso, it's a menagerie of stating the obvious, without much thought or analysis, like he's not actually trying to scumhunt.

UNVOTE: Toon Fighter
VOTE: DeityKabuto

That is some reasonable logic there, but I am more of what the "town" wants. If the town wants a certain person lynch, then I will overview the case and gather my own reasoning. Scumhunting itself can make you look scummy, if you don't know what you're doing, which I've experienced in past games.

[Wraith]

Okay, hang on, I think we jumped a few pages since yesterday.

In addition, I'm quite astounded that half the town isn't already out for my blood.

[Wraith]

First of all,

Unvote

. Should have done this pages ago.

To put it bluntly, it's far, far easier for me to see townreads (like mastin, of course) this early in the game than scumreads.

I do want to say something about PINE: In my last game, he did an excellent job of faking noob-towniness, even fooling mastin. Despite this, I was very suspicious of him until a nightkill threw me off his trail because I thought he was being framed. I've seen a couple dumb moves by him already, and therefore I'll be keeping an eye on him.

[jmurph3]

Between the two of subzero and silver, I would much rather see silver lynched. I am not a fan of his play thus far, and I still really don't see the case against subzero.

Uite's most recent post is interesting, and also much more like his play that I've seen previously. He makes a very interesting point against DeityKabuto. Also, am I reading this wrong, or is this:

That is some reasonable logic there, but I am more of what the "town" wants. If the town wants a certain person lynch, then I will overview the case and gather my own reasoning. Scumhunting itself can make you look scummy, if you don't know what you're doing, which I've experienced in past games.

basically Deity stating that he has no intention to actually scumhunt and just hop on the most popular wagons?

That being said, however, the timing of Uite's post seems odd to me, especially since if I read the deadline right, we only have 4 days left, and Uite's trying to start a completely different wagon? It just seems a bit suspicious to me.

Also, for the moment, UNVOTE:

[jmurph3]

EBWOP: I unvoted because I will be

V/LA until at least Tuesday

. I am getting my wisdom teeth taken out and while I would love to post while under the influence of vicodin, it would probably be better if I didn't.

[DeityKabuto]

jmurph3, I never said that, you are trying to make me look bad. I am just saying, in a game, not everyone can scum hunt, there is the "prey", and there is the "predator". If every single person was the "predator" then things would be really hectic. So instead, there are some townies who actually want to play it safe, instead of turning into the "prey". But in general, I am not good at scum hunting, I don't want to ruin my reputation here.

[Uite]

That is some reasonable logic there, but I am more of what the "town" wants. If the town wants a certain person lynch, then I will overview the case and gather my own reasoning. Scumhunting itself can make you look scummy, if you don't know what you're doing, which I've experienced in past games.

That's an interesting take you have there. I think you're confusing being scummy with being wrong. What you're doing right now is just throwing your hands up and saying: "I can't play this game, so I'm not going to try." Mafia doesn't work that way, and what you're showing us now is that you're far more concerned with "what the town wants" instead of your actual thoughts and opinions, which is classic scum play.

That being said, however, the timing of Uite's post seems odd to me, especially since if I read the deadline right, we only have 4 days left, and Uite's trying to start a completely different wagon? It just seems a bit suspicious to me.

I can answer that one easily: I didn't realise the deadline was only four days away. The last few days have been sort of a blur for me, and that coupled with my earlier absence led be to seriously underestimate the time left.

[Uite]

jmurph3, I never said that, you are trying to make me look bad. I am just saying, in a game, not everyone can scum hunt, there is the "prey", and there is the "predator". If every single person was the "predator" then things would be really hectic. So instead, there are some townies who actually want to play it safe, instead of turning into the "prey". But in general, I am not good at scum hunting, I don't want to ruin my reputation here.

Again with the thinking more about yourself. This is just not what you do to win as town, but it's exactly what you need as scum.

[Amor]

jmurph3, I never said that, you are trying to make me look bad. I am just saying, in a game, not everyone can scum hunt, there is the "prey", and there is the "predator". If every single person was the "predator" then things would be really hectic. So instead, there are some townies who actually want to play it safe, instead of turning into the "prey". But in general, I am not good at scum hunting, I don't want to ruin my reputation here.

In fact everyone can scumhunt (well, except for scum). You don't have to come up with a 100% original case each time, but just jumping on the most popular bandwagon without even thinking about whether it's going to get scum lynched is opportunistic as hell.

So yeah, DK just shot up my scum-o-meter for openly displaying a scum perspective.

[SubzeroSith]

In case you didn't notice, Silverbullet is on my list of town reads. It's mostly based on meta, but he's really playing like town-SB. I know he's usually a bit random and out there, which always makes him look mildly scummy. Now the trick to deciphering whether he's town or scum is to look at how much sense he's making. I've found that when he's scum, he'll just say whatever, without any coherence at all, but if he's town, you can easily see the thought patterns behind his posts. This game is an obvious case of the latter, so much so that he's one of the few I'm willing to confidently say is Town.

I absolutely did notice. You had gave a town read without further comment, which considering the wagon size, really is not acceptable. I definitely wanted you to say more, considering you didn't have anything to say about the case against him or the wagon. See the funny thing is, I'm really not finding anything that makes sense in his cases, really. A lot of his defense is just accusing his accuser of lying, he's unvoted and revoted me based on weird things that another player has said, his original vote on me (which seems to still have been the basis for his continuing vote on me for quite some time) makes literally no sense. His original case on me was "he felt his vote was more important than Maxous's". I had simply said "I like my vote better", when I did. My vote had reasoning behind it, which was explained in detail, where Maxous's vote was an RVS bandwagon vote. How is calling that a scum slip making sense? Can you please point out anywhere he makes sense later on?

My vote remains firmly parked on SubSith.

Funny, you seemed just about ready to switch over to silver, but now your vote is "parked firmly".

I don't really feel good about DK's responses. I really don't agree at all that townies can't all be predator, because all that means is "not every townie can scum hunt", which I vehemently disagree with. He seems to be giving himself an easy out to play an easy scum game. If this doesn't check out with his meta, then it is probably a safe bet that DK is scum. If it does check out with his meta, then he is short changing town a scum hunter every game he's town aligned.

[silverbullet999]

-Wraith

In addition, I'm quite astounded that half the town isn't already out for my blood.

Why should half the town be seeking your blood?

[mastin2]

silverbullet999 (7.5) – Maxous, SubzeroSith, Pine, | nhammen, DeityKabuto, Surye, /\ Knight of Cydonia <> mastin2
First three on last official votecount.
Second three within rapid succession of said votecount.
KoC hopped on a little bit later than that.
I never joined, but am an honorary member of this wagon, too.

The first group likely has one scum in it. (SubSith would be my guess.) The second group ALSO likely has scum in it, due to the size of the wagon. (Ditto.) In a game of this size, I'm assuming four scum, so that's pretty much a maximum of two in a wagon. (Admit it: as scum in a 4-man scumteam, you hesitate to join a wagon which already has two of your scumbuddies on it.)

This has me inclined to believe that KoC's placement was a town-placement, though I'm not positive. By that same logic, I believe nhammen joined at a time which wasn't scummy, too. Deity and Surye, on the other hand... (Only ONE of them, though--not both.)

"Why are you convinced there's two scum?"

Because it fits, regardless of Silver's alignment, 'cause on an L-1 wagon, I'd expect two scum. ESPECIALLY if Silver's town, but still EXTREMELY likely if Silver's scum due to a little thing we call, oh, y'know...

BUSSING.

*coughcoughsubsithcoughcough*

[DeityKabuto]

FoS: mastin2

I really don't like how you keep going on about the setup of who's scum, and not people's levels of scumming.

You've done this more than once before, if I am correct.

It's not really helping at all, it does not give the town any leads, your opinions aren't that strong, and it's fake-scum hunting imho. I would unvote you, but first I want to see silverbullet999 defend himself against the bandwagon.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't like Mastin's argument. Or, rather, I like the "at least two scum on this wagon" part of the argument, but I don't like the whole "this is right regardless of silver's alignment" thing. Also find it a little odd that mastin just accepted a VT claim and his vote which was going to be on silver depending on the result of the claim is now "firmly" on SubZero... "I'll consider my vote depending on your claim" doesn't read much like "firmly" to me...

[SubzeroSith]

I don't like Mastin's argument. Or, rather, I like the "at least two scum on this wagon" part of the argument,

but I don't like the whole "this is right regardless of silver's alignment" thing.

Also find it a little odd that mastin just accepted a VT claim and his vote which was going to be on silver depending on the result of the claim is now "firmly" on SubZero... "I'll consider my vote depending on your claim" doesn't read much like "firmly" to me...

Emphasis mine. This is actually quite a good point from KoC. Mastin's views seem impervious to potential flips atm, which is really concerning.

@Wraith: Why the townread on Mastin? FTR, I'm also very interested in what your answer is to Silver's question in #317.

I'll be blunt--the voting trick shenanigans Mastin is pulling with the Silver wagon (fake voting and then referring to himself as a ".5" vote or an honorary member of the wagon) is really squirrelly (since it gives him lots of outs to distance himself if Silver were to actually flip town), and his tunneling I think negates (or at least substantially mitigates) a lot of the scumhunting he is doing so far.

Also, Mastin, point blank--if Silver had 6 votes on him instead of 7, would your vote still be on me?

Am still feeling like NS is doing an excellent job of sliding underneath everyone's radar.

[Wraith]

@silver: Because of my playstyle. I've been bluntly honest about my intentions so far, and that usually gets me killed early on.

@SZS: Just because. I can't really elaborate on "gut"

[silverbullet999]

The three posts above me (not wraiths) slightly disturb me.. I won't comment further on it just yet but yeah.

Just so there's no confusion, I ask that noone else reply no matter how stupid you believe the post/questions to be until it is responded to by the person I am asking.
-Deity

It's not really helping at all, it does not give the town any leads, your opinions aren't that strong, and it's fake-scum hunting imho.

Why the emphasis on honesty?

I would unvote you, but first I want to see silverbullet999 defend himself against the bandwagon.

This quote is both confusing and ironic. Did you mean I would vote you? I'm going to assume yes but please clarify. Ironically you are asking me to defend myself against the bandwagon... yet you just admitted that you hopped on because you felt "that's what town wanted". Are you sure of what the case is on me? Could you please cite or summarize the overall case on me in your next post?

[quadz08]

v-v-v-v-v-v-v-v-VOTECOUNT

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

jmurph3 (0) –

L-2--->

silverbullet999 (7) – Maxous, SubzeroSith, Pine, nhammen, DeityKabuto, Surye, Knight of Cydonia
mastin2 (2) - Toon Fighter, Nobody Special
Wraith (0) -
Amor (1) –Thor665
nhammen (0) –
DeityKabuto (1) – Uite
Pine (0) –
MrZepher (0) -
Surye (0) -
Nobody Special (0) -
Thor665 (0) –
Uite (0) -
SubzeroSith (2) – mastin2, silverbullet999
Toon Fighter (1) – Amor
Maxous (0) –
Knight of Cydonia (0) –

Not Voting (3) – MrZepher, Wraith, jmurph3

Deadline is May 18th at 4:00 PM Pacific Time.

Toon Fighter is V/LA for the weekend. (In the future, please state your V/LA information in bold.)
Jmurph3 is V/LA until at least May 17.
Thor is V/LA until May 15.