Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

[C-Worl]

I'm paranoid about a self-hammer because in several of the games I've played then scum who considered their lynch inevitable have quickhammered themselves to cut short discussion. One did so in almost the exact situation C-Worl is in (they had quickhammered a townie on D1, then quickhammered themself as soon as they got to L-1 just 3 pages into D2).

Self hammering is never something I will do. As town it presents obvious reasons why it's bad. As scum it would wash away any chance I may have of arguing out of a hole. So regardless of my alignment I will never self hammer.

Unless I'm a Jester but that's obvious.

[Jase]

If you wish to gain more out of today why don't you target other players that are not me

since the wagon on me apparently isn't going anywhere.

(bold by me)
Note that a lot of us could easily put you to L-1. And to be honest, currently I wouldn’t mind if it weren’t for gaining more information during this Day. You’re not reading obvious scum to me but your hammer is just too large a stain on your slate.

I didn't say that to make it sound like I wasn't going to get lynched. In fact I was stating that due to my stupid hammer I doubt my wagon will disappear. However, it's also not building up until y'all decide it to (anyone who hammers would be put in my same position tomorrow) which probably won't be until deadline. I'm not saying it to be an ass either. If Jase WERE town then as town I'm giving him the advice of using this time to explore other avenues. Squeezing me of information won't work because I don't have any information to give. I'm Vanilla, that's all I know.

@Redtail896, I don't understand what you want from me. You want me to understand that the hammer was bad for town. I understand it now. However, you also want me to make a proper defense for the hammer-case. If I now understand that what I did was bad, how am I supposed to argue the case that what I did was bad?

Also, the reason I want Jase to focus on other people is that while he's tunneling me other people (like crazypianist1116 and Imaginality) can actively lurk by just saying things like, "Busy dudes I'll catch up later."

You've created an environment where townies can be lazy and scum can hide among the lazy townies.

So how long have you thought I was scum? This is the first time you come right out and say it. On that same topic...what does your case against me consist of? Why hold off on making an actual accusation for so long? Furthermore why does my willingness/lack of such to take your word for it that I should look elsewhere/you are town speak to my alignment?

The bit directed at redtail is more or less right. Sometimes you do a thing, and it's scummy, and you may even be town. Sometimes when that happens the only thing to say on the matter is "that happened, and it was scummy". Still demanding an explanation is pointless, and possibly opportunistic (considering I've been doing what could be interpreted as the same, and doing it quite hard at that).

The last two bits: How is it that my tunneling is creating a lurky environment? Why am I responsible for keeping everyone in the game active (apparently)? Scummy. Also finals are happening so it's rather pointless to push lurking as a tell right about now.

I need to go back and look at what you said D1 as well as looking at UP red and me=w more closely. For now though, bluh, screw that.

[Empking]

Votecount 2.5

Updated as of post #376

C-Worl (5) - crazypianist1116, redtail896, Uncle Pain, Prox, Me=Weird
tarsonisocelot
redtail896(2) - Zdenek, yabbaguy

Not voting (4) - Jase, C-Worl, tarsonisocelot, imaginality

If there's a mistake let me know.
11 Alive == 6 to Lynch && 6 to No-Lynch

C-Worl

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Powerrox93: May 12 - 15. Back-up mod Empking will look over the game while I'm away

Deadline

May 30 17:00 CEST

[Zdenek]

I’d see your point if redtail896 had done this all the time – but it was only for one single statement from [L]. Why is it scummy to ask for clarification? Actually, I’m asking you for clarification right now, too, doesn’t this also count? Look… player A says something, player B replies that he doesn’t understand what A meant, player C calls OMGWTFscum on this. Seriously?!
Just to prevent misunderstanding: I’m not defending redtail896 here, I’m curious why you and yabbaguy use such a flimsy idea as a serious argument.

I don't expect scum to do scummy things all the time and it's not that he asked for clarification, it's how he did it. Just to use your post as an example, you are doing it in what I think is a fairly aggressive way; whereas Red seemed to be doing it in a careful and polite way. I find his way scummier.

Also, that business about not defending Redtail is pretty bad, since you obviously are defending him.

[Jase]

I'm going to be

v/la for the rest of today and much of tomorrow

.

[yabbaguy]

Request replacement

I am being a debilitating component of this game with my severe inactivity. Sorry all, but my personal project is taking up far too much of my free time. I'll be back in the Mafia forums soon, don't worry. :)

[Empking]

yabbaguy and Prox will be replaced.

Imaginality has been prodded.

[redtail896]

I apologize, but I must also be V/LA today and tomorrow (Sunday and Monday).

[C-Worl]

So we have two on V/La 2 being replaced and one who's been prodded. Looks like waiting to lynch really reveals a lot of information. It's not like scum can just lurk to a win with all this inactivity. It's not like this information gathering has pretty much killed the activity in this game.

[Powerrox93]

I'm home from my V/LA now, so send every question etc to me

[Powerrox93]

Votecount 2.6

Updated as of post #384

C-Worl (5) - crazypianist1116, redtail896, Uncle Pain, Prox, Me=Weird
redtail896 (2) - Zdenek, yabbaguy

Not voting (4) - Jase, C-Worl, tarsonisocelot, imaginality

If there's a mistake let me know.
11 Alive == 6 to Lynch && 6 to No-Lynch

C-Worl

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Jase: Until May 16
redtail896: Until May 16

Deadline

May 30 17:00 CEST

[tarsonisocelot]

C-Worl, for obvious reasons I and others have posted, is at the top of my scumlist.

redtail/SC: I didn't get anything much from SC. redtail started off by providing a post giving reads on all players with a couple of justifications for each, which is good but all the reads contined in it were decidedly safe. Next posts are made of questions, some useful others not. Gets defensive very easily.
I dislike this post:

VOTE: C-Worl

The hammer was scummy scummy scummy. There's no way around that. And his content beyond that is not fantastic (certainly not exceptionally townie).
If we agree not to lynch C-Worl for this, I'm still going back to TO, based on supreme IIoA and general lack of scumhunting.

And not because he wants to lynch me. It seems like an attempt to see how easily he could shift the wagon from his buddy onto someone else. Verdict: Leaning scum.

Me=Weird generally seems to have been contributing throughout the game though this has decreased lately. There have been a few things that have seemed less town. The most glaring is in ISO#14, where they attempt to directly compare a situation where a cop has a guilty on someone with C-Worl's situation, where he's only very likely scum. Overal verdict: Null

Yabbaguy: Towngambit is town. Generates useflu information and gives reads throughout. There are a few inconsistencies, such as where he's not sure if [L] is an ok wagon or a terrible one but I think scum would have been more careful to avoid this. Not much to say other than it's a shame yabba is replacing out and yabba-slot is town.

crazypianist: Posts lots of walls. Had played with [L]scum before and said that [L] had played differently then while downplaying that fact in the middle of one wall. Am I still "next"? What's your take on the SC/redtail slot? 'yabba vs Uncle Pain looks town vs town-ish' if pianist is scum we should look into this. Verdict: Null, slight scum tilt.

Zdenek is null leaning town. Several decent posts but want to hear more.
imaginality started off as a slight scumread for me after yabba's gambit, but several townposts since have given me a townread.
UnclePain: RVS->clarification->useful questions->townposting=>townread
Jase: Started scummy then became useful. Townread.
Prox-slot: Null due to non-contribution. Slight town-lean because surely at least one of them would have been more interested if the slot was scum.

Slightly late due to an AGM going for longer than expected.

[Powerrox93]

bvoigt replaces yabaguy

[bvoigt]

Hi!

[Powerrox93]

RangeroftheNorth replaces Prox

[RangeroftheNorth]

Hello

[Me=Weird]

Yeah, I know he isn't cop guilty, but my point was that we shouldn't wait til deadline to lynch just because we can. But why do you see it as scummy?
Sorry for lack of activity lately. Had a lot on my plate.

[tarsonisocelot]

Yeah, I know he isn't cop guilty, but my point was that we shouldn't wait til deadline to lynch just because we can. But why do you see it as scummy?
Sorry for lack of activity lately. Had a lot on my plate.

I see it as attempting to get people to judge reponses to the situation at hand as though it were a different situation with different optimal play. Your post did not seem to be proposing a hypothetical situation for theory discussion (which would have been yet another tangential, unuseful on if it had been, we've had enough of those on D1), it seemed more like you were trying to get us to treat C-Worl as cop guilty. That's why I see it as scummy play.
If someone else had posted that comment about cop-guilties at the point you did, would you view it as town, neutral, scummy or irrelevant?

[bvoigt]

Here are my reads from a quick readthrough.

Town

Jase- His reaction testing looked sincere.
C-Worl- When hammering, he must have known it would put him under some suspicion the next day. So I see a strong motivation not to do it.
Me=Weird- He seems to be actively scumhunting.
bvoigt- Please note that there is no "h" in my name. Thanks.
Zdenek- He's also asking questions and scumhunting.
crazypianist1116- His posts also seem sincere.

Not Sure

tarsonisocelot- What conclusions did you make from your reread?
imaginality
RangeroftheNorth

Scum

Uncle Pain- In ISO #8, his 3 scum reads are the three players that were the most thought-of as scum. Then in ISO #16, he says, "I really don’t know how to interpret this hammer as pro-town." To me, this seems like distancing from the [L] townflip and setting up a lynch for D2.

redtail896- His suspects in ISO #1 also coincide with the most popular lynches. He also seemed a bit too concerned with a FoS from [L] in ISO #3: "I don't understand this. Can you clarify please? What exactly did I take too far? And why do you suspect my slot?"

[tarsonisocelot]

Bvoigt, my reads are a couple of posts up on this page. Post#386.

[bvoigt]

OK, thanks.

[bvoigt]

That is a good point about crazypianist.

[L], I'm voting for you. If you want, you can refute my case. Regardless I want more votes for you.

Well, frankly, you've seen me play as scum. I am much....shall we say....different. My town approach is to analyze more... but this game started out so disgustingly that I haven't even done that. I'll be honest - I haven't been involved in the game the way I wanted to be. I'm frustrated. But I'm not giving up on the game because I'm the type to see things through to their end.

Yes, I've seen you play as scum. That does not mean your scum play is completely unique. You could be intentionally playing differently than you were in Newbie #1082 purely in an attempt to throw me off. Or you could just be playing differently as a result of real life. What I'm trying to say here is that your playing differently does not exempt you from being scum.

It seems like a bit of a forced reason to continue pushing [L]'s mislynch.

[imaginality]

Sorry - I will either be fully caught up and posting regularly again within 24 hours, or I will replace out if I can't pull my weight. I haven't lost interest in this game, it's just been an emotionally gruelling weekend.

[Powerrox93]

Uncle Pain has been prodded

[Uncle Pain]

This prod was painful… I intended to get through this game without a single prod.

About my defending thing, let me rephrase it as “I didn’t intend to defend him”. Yes, I actually do defend him by criticising arguments against him. My motivation however was and is not to rid him of attacks/attackers but to check out the ones attacking him because of the reasons they gave. At last Zdenek gave me some usable answer to my question.
Of course you are free to believe in any connection between redtail896 and me and I find it important that you at least consider it; ignoring clues doesn’t help town. Still, I’d like to state that, to my current knowledge, I’m not affiliated with him.

So now the great question mark yabbaguy has left the game, too… I’m curious how bvoigt will do.

bvoigt

: What do you think about yabbaguy and his play? How can you explain that everyone else sees me town but you see me scummy? Why don’t you vote me or redtail896? Why do you think my ISO #16 is distancing from [L]’s town flip when in the same post I give my reasons why I still supported the lynch? How can you say that I (and no one else) set up a Day 2 lynch when I was neither the only one nor the first one to mention the scumminess of C-Worl’s hammer? Do you see the WIFOMness of your C-Worl-town argument? Also, aren’t you sheeping Jase’s suspicion case against redtail896 and me? And off-topic: does your nickname stem from some German surname?

RangeroftheNorth

: What do you think about your predecessors and their play? Who are your suspects and why? How do you see the Day 1 [L] wagon and C-Worl’s hammer? Do you think Jase and bvoigt have reasonable ground for suspecting redtail896 and me as a scum team? What do you think about the tarsonisocelot case?

imaginality

: I hope you do well despite your personal situation. I’d like you to stay in the game. We’ve had enough replacements…