Newbie Game 1106: Death with a 2x4 (limps to finish line)

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 7:42 am

Post by Ankamius »

Dr Doom wrote:Well, it's not guaranteed to generate discussion the way that voting others does.


It worked this time, though :)

Dr Doom wrote:
Ankamius wrote:I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.

Are you subtly implaying that I give off scumtells or is there just not enough to go on from me here?


Not at all. I'm saying that the discussion generated by the self-vote is giving me town vibes on both Korlash and Poiven. They both give me the feeling that they both want discussion as early as possible. You're giving me more of a null tell right now, but that's more because of the lack of information than anything.
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 8:49 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

First Vote Count of Day One:


Korlash - 2 (Korlash, zMuffinMan)
Dr Doom - 1 (Quinnster)
Ant - 1 (Ankamius)
Quinnster - 1 (Poiven)
mrguy888 - 1 (Ant)

Not Voting - 3 (embit, mrguy888, Dr Doom)


With nine alive, it will take five votes to lynch.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 9:13 am

Post by Dr Doom »

Ankamius wrote:
Dr Doom wrote:Well, it's not guaranteed to generate discussion the way that voting others does.


It worked this time, though :)

Dr Doom wrote:
Ankamius wrote:I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.

Are you subtly implaying that I give off scumtells or is there just not enough to go on from me here?


Not at all. I'm saying that the discussion generated by the self-vote is giving me town vibes on both Korlash and Poiven. They both give me the feeling that they both want discussion as early as possible. You're giving me more of a null tell right now, but that's more because of the lack of information than anything.

Allright then.

Several people still need to speak up, tough:

Quinnster (has voted, but not said anything yet)
Ant (ditto)

Have said zero:
# embit
# mrguy888
# Ant
# Quinnster
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 9:17 am

Post by Dr Doom »

Ankamius wrote:I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.


Dr Doom wrote:
Poiven wrote:I said it rubs me the wrong way, not that I find it completely scummy; basically what I'm trying to say. I didn't say it wasn't important, just that it's not that important. Also, it was a reason for a random vote; I'm sure you also don't find "cake stealing" to be that important in a game of mafia.

You're a bit wishy washy here. Scum?


What do you think about this question? Is Poiven wishy-washy in your Opinion or not?
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 9:34 am

Post by Quinnster »

Okay, just reread the thread and made notes, and the scummiest player so far, in my mind, is Dr. Doom.

Dr Doom wrote:Well, it's not guaranteed to generate discussion the way that voting others does.
I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.

Are you subtly implaying that I give off scumtells or is there just not enough to go on from me here?


It's not the time to worry about your reputation yet, we're just getting started. Instead of worrying about being the tiniest bit suspicious, you should be scumhunting. Your immediate questioning of your status on the scumlist makes me think you're being overcautious already. I'm also unclear about your stance on Poiven. In post 47, you seem to stand beside him and call him out in the same post. Are you actually torn on the issue, or are you trying to gain favor in both sides of the argument?
Little triggers, how do you do?
I've been waiting, waiting for you.
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 10:36 am

Post by Dr Doom »

Quinnster wrote:Okay, just reread the thread and made notes, and the scummiest player so far, in my mind, is Dr. Doom.

Dr Doom wrote:Well, it's not guaranteed to generate discussion the way that voting others does.
Ankamius wrote:I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.

Are you subtly implaying that I give off scumtells or is there just not enough to go on from me here?

It's not the time to worry about your reputation yet, we're just getting started. Instead of worrying about being the tiniest bit suspicious, you should be scumhunting. Your immediate questioning of your status on the scumlist makes me think you're being overcautious already.

I was not worrying about my reputation, I wanted to force Ankamius to leave a definite trail of opinion. Its a good way to say "out of these three people, A and B strike me as town" and then later on deny that you said anything bad about C.
I'm also unclear about your stance on Poiven. In post 47, you seem to stand beside him and call him out in the same post. Are you actually torn on the issue, or are you trying to gain favor in both sides of the argument?

Me thinking that his point is true has nothing to do if I think that he might be scum. If anyone, even the most scummy player says anything that I think is true, I will say so, scummy or not. Your question excludes the middle - the way you phrased it, it (tried to) paints me into a corner of either being with Poiven or not, thus trying to get me caught in a non-existant Contradiction. At least that is what you might have been trying to do. Finger of Suspicion for that.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 11:44 am

Post by Poiven »

Dr Doom wrote:
Poiven wrote:I said it rubs me the wrong way, not that I find it completely scummy; basically what I'm trying to say. I didn't say it wasn't important, just that it's not that important. Also, it was a reason for a random vote; I'm sure you also don't find "cake stealing" to be that important in a game of mafia.

You're a bit wishy washy here. Scum?

I was just explaining that it's not that huge of a deal to me. If that makes me wishy washy, then sure, but it's just not a huge thing to me.

Also, I would like to correct myself; I didn't random vote for Korlash as I mentioned that I did, but rather for Quinnster, and somehow that slipped through my bad memory. My apologies. So no, it wasn't a basis for a random vote, just something I thought I should point out.
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 11:55 am

Post by Ankamius »

Poiven wrote:
Dr Doom wrote:
Poiven wrote:I said it rubs me the wrong way, not that I find it completely scummy; basically what I'm trying to say. I didn't say it wasn't important, just that it's not that important. Also, it was a reason for a random vote; I'm sure you also don't find "cake stealing" to be that important in a game of mafia.

You're a bit wishy washy here. Scum?

I was just explaining that it's not that huge of a deal to me. If that makes me wishy washy, then sure, but it's just not a huge thing to me.

Also, I would like to correct myself; I didn't random vote for Korlash as I mentioned that I did, but rather for Quinnster, and somehow that slipped through my bad memory. My apologies. So no, it wasn't a basis for a random vote, just something I thought I should point out.


Do you have any opinion on the exchange between Dr Doom, Quinnster, and myself?
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 12:00 pm

Post by Ankamius »

Dr Doom wrote:
Ankamius wrote:I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.


Dr Doom wrote:
Poiven wrote:I said it rubs me the wrong way, not that I find it completely scummy; basically what I'm trying to say. I didn't say it wasn't important, just that it's not that important. Also, it was a reason for a random vote; I'm sure you also don't find "cake stealing" to be that important in a game of mafia.

You're a bit wishy washy here. Scum?


What do you think about this question? Is Poiven wishy-washy in your Opinion or not?


I don't see anything scummy in this post.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 12:05 pm

Post by Poiven »

I agree on your town read on Korlash. Obviously I also agree with your town read on myself.

Beyond that, I have very little as far as reads go.

As for the discussion, I see Dr Doom as being very details-oriented and very quick to analyze a lot and jump on small things. Hard to read him. Quinnster, also not much of a read, he hasn't said all that much and, while I disagree with his opinion that Dr Doom was contradicting himself, I don't think that's much of a basis for any kind of read. Ankamius, I also don't have much of a read on you.

I'd also like to hear from the rest of the townsfolk before we get too deep into analysis of one another.
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 12:52 pm

Post by Korlash »

Poi wrote:If you vote for someone else, then they may speak up about it, which can be a good way to get a read on at least one of the players involved in the situation. Voting for oneself doesn't put anyone else on the defensive (albeit a very petty defensive), thus taking away one of the great aspects of the random vote.


I guess we'll have to disagree on the way we think then. I like the way I do RVS, and even you would have to admit this game hasn't suffered for it.

Gir wrote:Because a random vote for somebody else creates Antagonism, Strife, Discussion! If you vote for yourself, who is your antagonist to argue with? Yourself?
Unless someone else picks up on it, like Poiven here, it is mnot going to generate discussion.
Plus, if you vote for another Person, you have two persons involved. The possibility that one of the two is scum is higher than if you have a selfvote. If you get two players in an argument, the probability of a slip up is higher.
So I agree with Poiven here - vote for other People are better then votes for oneself.


Doom de doom doom doom...

Unless someone actually takes a random vote seriously then voting someone on page two isn't guaranteed to generate anything. Even if you do generate a conversation, it doesn't guarantee any other people will get involved either. However, self voting is a full town topic. All it takes is one person to chime in and I'm guaranteed to get MORE then two people involved in the conversation. You say a conversation with two people has an increased chance of having scum on it, what about one involving six? Or eight?

You also have to realize that in RVS the majority of players are either omitting random votes, or voting for other people. By doing something completely different it adds a unique property the game would otherwise not have, which adds an infinite number of possibilities. The more we do to promote discussion, the wider range of discussion we get, and the more varied the results are. This increases our reads of each other exponentially.

Very long story short, you can't honestly argue if a self vote is better or worse then a RVS vote. It all depends on your preference and playstyle. My Random vote is always on myself because I know the potential it has behind it.

Anka wrote:I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.


seems fairly early to be getting reads... Still i have to agree with Poi. I find commenting on something you don't actually think is important to be a town thing. Scum generally have a motive behind their actions and a fear of putting too much out. Like I said, fairly early to make any decisions but it's definitely a good start.
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 1:03 pm

Post by Dr Doom »

Poiven wrote:
Dr Doom wrote:
Poiven wrote:I said it rubs me the wrong way, not that I find it completely scummy; basically what I'm trying to say. I didn't say it wasn't important, just that it's not that important. Also, it was a reason for a random vote; I'm sure you also don't find "cake stealing" to be that important in a game of mafia.

You're a bit wishy washy here. Scum?

I was just explaining that it's not that huge of a deal to me. If that makes me wishy washy, then sure, but it's just not a huge thing to me.

Hm, okay. It is not a huge thing, yes, but hm... SOmehow, this leaves me with the feeling that this is not a proper defense. Hm.

I want to say that Korlash strikes as town as well, based purely on gut.

Ankamius wrote:

[...]

Do you have any opinion on the exchange between Dr Doom, Quinnster, and myself?

This is good posting!

Ankamius wrote:
I don't see anything scummy in this post.


I want to say that this is good posting as well (:D ), but all joking aside, it is good that you leave a posttrail early, so your later opinions can be measured agaisnt the early ones.

Poiven and to a larger degree Quinnster are a bit suspicious.

Quinnster because of the excluded middle/false dilemma in his post. And his scum reading is wrong, obviously :D

Poiven because... I don't know, being a bit wishy washy there, and then the weird defense. But it is not very strong, and will probably evaporate over the course of the game.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 1:06 pm

Post by Poiven »

Korlash, I get your nicknames for myself and Ankamius, but where did Gir come from?
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 1:12 pm

Post by Korlash »

The Doom song!
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 1:31 pm

Post by Ankamius »

Korlash wrote:seems fairly early to be getting reads... Still i have to agree with Poi. I find commenting on something you don't actually think is important to be a town thing. Scum generally have a motive behind their actions and a fear of putting too much out. Like I said, fairly early to make any decisions but it's definitely a good start.


Like you said before: the more discussion, the better. Being a part of an ongoing discussion will add new opinions and ideas, which give other people even more to base their opinions and ideas off of. If people know what my opinions of people are directly, it could help discussion further. This happened when Dr Doom asked a question because of me voicing what I thought of people at that point.

Either way, I'll give the players who haven't posted yet a chance to read through the thread without having a huge clump of discussion to catch up on.
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 2:31 pm

Post by Ant »

Sorry I haven't posted much, I'm not really sure what to say.
"And then I said - 'oatmeal, are you CRAZY?!' "
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 9:50 pm

Post by Dr Doom »

My Post got eaten!

Last Night, ehn I posted, I did not see Korlashs Post before me.
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Sat May 14, 2011 11:46 pm

Post by Poiven »

Ant wrote:Sorry I haven't posted much, I'm not really sure what to say.

What do you think when you read the posts? Do you think anyone sticks out as probably scum, possibly scum, or probably town?
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 2:43 am

Post by Ant »

I guess that ankamius and poiven seem like town. I didn't find anything really suspicious yet. Other than korlash's vote for himself. I can't think of a reason to do that unless he's scum. If he were town, what would be the point of voting for himself, to show that he's innocent enough to be able to do so? I don't know, just seems odd.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 2:48 am

Post by Ant »

I was thinking about changing my vote to korlash, but maybe embit and mrguy888 are staying out of the conversation intentionally so they don't give away their roles in a slip up. Yep, keeping my vote for mrguy.
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 3:05 am

Post by Poiven »

Ant wrote:I guess that ankamius and poiven seem like town. I didn't find anything really suspicious yet. Other than korlash's vote for himself. I can't think of a reason to do that unless he's scum. If he were town, what would be the point of voting for himself, to show that he's innocent enough to be able to do so? I don't know, just seems odd.

What do you think of Korlash's claim that he random votes himself every game?
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 4:56 am

Post by Ant »

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But every game seems like a stretch. If he does then he must be used to having a lot of suspicion surrounding him.
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 5:13 am

Post by Korlash »

Here is a link to the only other completed game I have since I returned to the site. I have a second newbie game since then that is still in the works but also includes a self vote.

As for games before my exodus from the site... No, not every game included a self vote but a lot did. But every game recently has.

Ant wrote:If he does then he must be used to having a lot of suspicion surrounding him.


Actually that's right on the money. I find I read people better when analyzing their attacks, so having them direct their attacks my way always helps out. That's not the biggest reason for said self vote, but if it does happen then I'm not disappointed if you catch my drift.
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 5:25 am

Post by Ant »

Wow, that's pretty clever, korlash. But there are other reasons? like what?
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Sun May 15, 2011 5:27 am

Post by Ankamius »

Dr Doom wrote:My Post got eaten!

Last Night, ehn I posted, I did not see Korlashs Post before me.


Did it change anything you were going to put in that post? If so, what? Has your opinions on anyone changed in light of this post?

Unvote Ant

VOTE: Embit.

Merely a pressure vote. I saw him be online just last night and he hasn't posted. I'm looking forward to his opinions on what has transpired so far and hope this will encourage him to voice them.

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