Mini 1161 - Neruzian Era Mafia (Over!)

[Vi]

Faraday, why are YOU still alive?

[Faraday]

cos i fucking suck.

[Faraday]

ignore that i'm feeling sorry myself because of american gods. idk.

[Vi]

cos i fucking suck.

yyyyyeah

except

NO

You've been leading the game since the beginning.

[Neruz]

The flavour is completely unrelated to the actual night actions. It's just me amusing myself.

[Faraday]

You've been leading the game since the beginning.

well initially yeah, I guess, but I was wrong twice(?) day 1, or at least i thought i was. there's also the fact it's pretty obvious why i wasn't killed n2, especially if scum are hunting for pr's.

[Vi]

You've been leading the game since the beginning.

well initially yeah, I guess, but I was wrong twice(?) day 1, or at least i thought i was.

...your point being...?

there's also the fact it's pretty obvious why i wasn't killed n2, especially if scum are hunting for pr's.

I don't see it as obvious.

[Vi]

There have been four kills so far...

*Neuky - Assuming that Neuky was a shot intended to hit scum - which pap-rat thought was a good idea, I suppose - the only person who expressed suspicion of Neuky was DarthYoshi. The mod said that fitz was shot at least once, which leads me to believe that someone else killed fitz as well. If Neuky was shot because he looked Town, then there's nothing to see - pretty much everyone thought that. Asking about fitz' reads is probably pointless unless someone cares to step up with incriminating meta about fitz owning them in another game.
*pap-rat - hiplop thought he was null; everyone else thought he was Town. pap-rat didn't actively pursue any of his scumreads beyond Empking, so presumably that's not why he was killed.

*Scott B. - Was pretty obviously a shot intended to hit scum. Nobody really DIDN'T expect Scott B. to be scum though, but Quilford and Zdenek were the only people to say it. Scott didn't have any suspicions outside Quilford.
*charter - Was against Sloth and Quilford. If he was killed for being Town, that implicates Zdenek and DarthYoshi.

Yes I know I'm not really implicated by any of this but I don't fall under any of those.

The Neuky part of this post was typed up when I started pressing DY so etc.

---

So. My own reads, independent of the above.

I initially thought Faraday was Town, but now I can't make heads or tails of him. That really makes me uncomfortable, especially with how I'm wondering why HE's still alive right now. Leading the three-Scummy offense at the beginning of the Day REALLY suggests a setup. I'm still bothered by his response to the collapsing Quilford wagon as well.

Zdenek is one of my picks for a partner to Twistedspoon because of this timeline:
*469: Teaspoon is scummy for legalistic reasons but I won't vote him
*508: Teaspoon's response to the fake guilty is null and Scott B. is a bad person for suspecting him AND charter simultaneously
*529: Vi's reason for caring about the fake guilty is not satisfactory BUT Teaspoon is scum anyway BUT I'm not voting him
*548: Well okay we can HAMMER now

All of eight posts to his tally as well.

DarthYoshi reads poorly as well. The posts D1 are huge but they don't go very far or say anything. He sheeped right onto the Twistedspoon wagon D2, and went right out the gate D3 calling me a "policy kill" while insisting he had no idea why Scott B. was killed when it's pretty obvious.

I think everyone knows my opinion of hiplop. On one hand I'm inclined to call Town with his response to the Miller claim, but on the other hand he has like three irrational L-1 votes to his name. The fact that Twistedspoon called him out on being a "LyLo hazard" is really sketchy and points in his favor though.

Quilford claimed Townie and then left. I didn't understand the wagon before and while I know he's been fairly useless since I find his wagon more interesting than him. His D2 activity actually wasn't bad.

Sloth is the Sloth we all know and love from waffling on Twistedspoon.

This should help show why I wanted a reread Yesterday - I have essentially NO solid Town reads. After the hammer, I decided to put a hold on it - revealing anything in Twilight was basically asking to be killed or not based on how right I was.

---

Quilford

-

Scott Brosius,

Faraday, Sloth,

charter, Empking,

hiplop

hiplop

-

Neuky,

DarthYoshi, Quilford, Sloth,

Twistedspoon

Empking

- Vi, Faraday, Zdenek, Sloth, Quilford,

charter, pappums rat

--

charter

- Sloth,

Scott Brosius,

Twistedspoon

Twistedspoon

- Faraday, Vi, DarthYoshi, hiplop,

Scott Brosius,

Zdenek

Sloth is on almost all of these wagons, except the one that was definitely on scum for waffly reasons.

I expected two scum on the Quilford wagon D1 (unless Quilford himself was scum); since Twistedspoon wasn't on the wagon and flipped scum I'm still quite inclined to lynch from there.

The hiplop and Empking wagons contain everyone presently alive, so I'd rather leave that alone.

It's hard to really do much of a check on bussing Twistedspoon since we were pretty much at a supermajority for lynching him; it mostly turned into a posturing contest for who didn't want to catch flack for voting him late.

tl;dr

Scum

Sloth
Zdenek
Faraday
DarthYoshi
'
Quilford
'
hiplop
|
|

Town

I'm going to hold off on my vote. There's still something else I need to look at.

[Sloth]

I have nothing to say about the twisted wagon except I know it looks pretty shitty for me right now. Guess I was wrong about charter too.

One or both of Faraday/Vi is scum. DY is prob-scum.

I'm fine with a massclaim.

[Faraday]

actually hesitating on Vi due to the fact twistedspoon claimed vanilla and i know from cowboy bebop quicktopic that's less likely to happen with Vi led scumteam. ugh.

i'll read this tomorrow, not in the mood for serious mafia still but yeah.

[Faraday]

otoh ...:twisedspoon: but it's worth bearing in mind.

[Vi]

Why is Quilford not posting in this game?

[DarthYoshi]

I still am down with a massclaim, especially if we are expecting another two-flip tonight.

Sloth's #608 is terrible--no reasoning whatsoever. First, why is it that either Vi/Faraday are scum? Second, why is it that both are scum? Third, why are you saying both statements when they are clearly mutually exclusive? Fourth, why are you saying I'm probscum when, if we're going on what Charter said, I'm the closest thing to confirmed town that we've got? Fifth, no explanations at all for your D2 actions aside from "it looks bad?" No offering of motives? THAT looks bad.

Okay...I'll be honest, part of the reason I pressed on Vi as hard as I did out of the gate was simply to see her reaction, because I was WIFOMing myself into thinking she was probscum for being alive so long. I do have some issues with her #607, which are noted below, but by and large, it is actually a town-looking reaction, IMO.

Assuming that Neuky was a shot intended to hit scum - which pap-rat thought was a good idea, I suppose - the only person who expressed suspicion of Neuky was DarthYoshi.

The mod said that fitz was shot at least once, which leads me to believe that someone else killed fitz as well.

If Neuky was shot because he looked Town, then there's nothing to see - pretty much everyone thought that. Asking about fitz' reads is probably pointless unless someone cares to step up with incriminating meta about fitz owning them in another game.

Emphasis mine. Neruz said that kill flavor has no bearing on what actually happened. I was wondering the exact same thing--that's why I asked.

FWIW, my suspicion of Neuky was relatively minor, and I walked it back later on in D1. At the end of D1, I noted Neuky as null-reading to me. Compared to pap-rat, who I imagine was killed because everyone thought he was town.

*Scott B. - Was pretty obviously a shot intended to hit scum. Nobody really DIDN'T expect Scott B. to be scum though, but Quilford and Zdenek were the only people to say it. Scott didn't have any suspicions outside Quilford.

Okay, here is where I'm losing you. I realize cross-killing is a good scum tactic in a two maf/maf-SK setup, but you're saying it is obvious--cool, but BOTH N1 targets were not on "scummy" targets, by your own analysis.

*charter - Was against Sloth and Quilford. If he was killed for being Town, that implicates Zdenek and DarthYoshi.

How does it (a) implicate me when Charter says he doesn't find me scummy on D2 and I basically say I'd clear him on the basis of a scumTS flip? and (b) NOT implicate Sloth?

The analysis of Z being a potential TS partner is quite compelling. I will also say that I feel like I have a relatively decent idea of what Z's scumgame looks like, and in my experience, Z does not bus unless he absolutely has to.

FoS: Zdenek.

And FWIW, I wasn't just calling for your lynch on policy grounds. I legitimately had no idea why you were left alive after how you interacting with TS on D2.

All of that being said, Vi's post is easily the most pro-town contribution so far today.

Ready again to lynch Sloth.

[Zdenek]

The fact that both Faraday and Vi are alive bothers me. I still have a town read on Faraday from earlier, so if we are going to choose one of them to lynch, I'd prefer Vi. I suspect that whichever is scum left the other alive to make it possible to argue that it is the other that should have died already.

I don't think that we should mass claim today. I think having another day without outing our power roles is best for the town. Basically what DY said earlier.

Vi's speculation on Neuky/Fitz being shot multiple times is irrelevant because:

Yes. The kill flavour has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what actually happened. It's just me amusing myself.

*charter - Was against Sloth and Quilford. If he was killed for being Town, that implicates Zdenek and DarthYoshi.

Or it implicates Sloth or Quilford wanting to kill off one of the people suspicious of him.

The analysis of Z being a potential TS partner is quite compelling. I will also say that I feel like I have a relatively decent idea of what Z's scumgame looks like, and in my experience, Z does not bus unless he absolutely has to. FoS: Zdenek.

Except that I planned to vote for him from my first post in the day, so while perhaps I wasn't voting for him, I definitely wanted him lynched.

I need to reread.

[Vi]

Re: kill flavor and Neuky - I don't think that qualifies as flavor so much as a statement of fact...
That and pap-rat's "bah" post pretty much confirms that he shot Neuky, leaving the question about where this OTHER kill went. I'd say it's probably more likely to be with the person the mod said was killed more than once, unless we all want to flame Neruz after the game ends for deliberately misleading us (read: bastard modding).

Re: Scott B. - I don't know what the motives were, that's why I'm trying to cover all the bases. There's pretty much only one reason to kill Neuky, and pretty much only one reason to kill Scott B. - that they might not be the same reason isn't a big deal.

Re: charter - There's an interesting story behind that; I'll tell you later.

Just checking, how many of those Scummies were for good play? ...oh, just the one that 18 people have. Amazing how when I was Prof. Paragon almost nobody talked about it ingame.

---

The fact that both Faraday and Vi are alive bothers me.

Expected/10
It's old news now. You can stop stealing convenient lines from the people who post before you.

I think having another day without outing our power roles is best for the town.

What makes you so sure we're going to have another Day?

That interesting story got more interesting.

[Neruz]

Re: kill flavor and Neuky - I don't think that qualifies as flavor so much as a statement of fact...

The only parts of the dawning posts that matter are these parts:

havingfitz (Townie)

died Night 1.

pappums rat (Town Vigilante)

died Night 1.

10 people remain alive, it is 6 votes to lynch.

It is now Day 2, Day 2 will end around 00:00 GMT+0 on Monday the 23rd.

Scott Brosius (Townie)

died Night 2.

Charter (Town Tracker)

died Night 2.

7 people remain alive, it is 4 votes to lynch.

It is now Day 3, Day 3 will end around 00:00 GMT+0 on Sunday the 29th.

That's why those parts are there. I was explicitly told that action information was not to be revealed in the flavour in a normal game.

Obviously i can't say whether or not a player was killed multiple times, but i can absolutely confirm that the line 'shot at least once' is entirely unrelated to the actual actions.

[Vi]

Nonetheless.

[Faraday]

Why is Quilford not posting in this game?

Hasn't he being pretty much not posting since his wagon went away?

[Faraday]

You've been leading the game since the beginning.

well initially yeah, I guess, but I was wrong twice(?) day 1, or at least i thought i was.

...your point being...?

there's also the fact it's pretty obvious why i wasn't killed n2, especially if scum are hunting for pr's.

I don't see it as obvious.

And I lead wrong day 1.

Well, okay, I'm obviously vanilla that's why. With that being outed and dy claiming 'nilla we should probably massclaim anyway. Plus if I'm right I get to :brag:

[Faraday]

Vi can go next.

[Faraday]

Vi's post hammer interaction with TS was kinda weird, if they're scum together though. I actually thought he was gonna flip town and was pleasantly surprised when he didn't.

[Sloth]

DY + Vi, why are you not voting me?

[Faraday]

what is this

[Zdenek]

I don't have a lot of time, but I'd like us to reconsider the mass claim.

I had a backup vig shot and used it to kill Scott, so we probably aren't expecting two kills tonight.

[Faraday]

So quilford is still prob town, just re-read twisted and I don't think they're likely buddies.