Mini 1170: Nowhereville Mafia '11- Over!

[cloudocean]

Clarification: I [was / am still] using the same reasoning.

[Elfen]

@CooLskins, well i understand everything and am ok with it all except this thing right here

Okay, and why is this relevant if you are town? I find this to be a major slip. (stupid head again. I'm going to wait until he comes up and posts why he thinks kool is scummy...)

and the justification after the post, of course you meant to say it

Ok, I've played 2 themed Mafia games and the mod gave them fake claims and that game was the first time I heard of claiming. I also got modkilled cause i claimed wrong @_@ So yeah, I am iffy about claiming due to i got modkilled for it

Still even if he did give out fake claims why wouldn't you still claim your real role? I'm just asking why would your claim change at all?

Well the above thing i made should do answer it. I have very little trust in Role/name claiming due to the fact it really cannot be trusted most of the time, unless a doctor/cop is trying to claim(I mean mafia tryingto claim cop/doctor) then the real ones know that and try to get that person out. So thatsthe only way i see claiming is ok, since everyone will claim town >_> But I don't get the claiming stuff still, to me, everyone will claim town so whatsthe point?

[Quinnster]

Having re-read the thread, I must say that I'm getting very town vibes from Sleepykrew. Thorough, calling people out on shit that needs to be called out, and putting the pressure pretty much where I'd like to see it put. However, where I differ is that I believe Elfen to be unreadable at this point. If he had more experience and was playing this way, I'd call him scum right off, but right now he seems desperate. It's really hard to get a read on a desperate person, as they're grasping for straws in the same way scum without valid reasoning do. We've backed him into a corner and seen that he caves a bit under pressure. Good, now we know, let's move on.

My two main suspects right now are Kalofer and Espeonage.

Kalofer I find scummy for his general play style. Claiming to "love bandwagons", voting because he has "nothing else to do". He's a wild card and a shit disturber, and it's not really helping the town. Kalofer, I'd like you to explain your vote on The Kool. A real explanation, not just boredom.

Espeonage is also a liability to the town, saying that he's not even going to scum hunt today. He's going to town hunt. Great, it's not like the mafia are trying to look like town. If you look for town attributes, you're going to find them in everyone. If you look for the tiny slip-ups that make people scum, you're doing more good for the town. Also, it makes me uncomfortable that you claimed that The Kool was the next person that needed to justify themselves, without any real reason why. Explain why you think The Kool is scummy, please.

[Quinnster]

You know what? VOTE: Espeonage. I forgot to do that, but I'm suspicious enough of him to do this.

[Kalofer]

What's wrong with liking bandwagons? What's wrong with espeonage town hunting? And my explanation is that the kool seems like a good place to start with. I agree with espy's strategy so far and as far as I'm concerned we're not fully out of RVS yet, sure people are voting based on "reasons" but the majority of those are for a person who I am fairly certain is newbtown.

[Elfen]

RV: SleepyKrew

unvote

Necessary Evil how are pointing out contradictions making something out of nothing?

vote: Elfen

FoS: Necessary and Kalofer

Clarification: I [was / am still] using the same reasoning.

All of his post, really not saying anything really, any one else think of this?

[The Kool]

@ the kool, what forum did you come from??

910CMX, the Games section, mafia stuff just started up there recently. So I don't have a lot of experience, but I'm not a noob. Also, as different as it may be, I have also started hanging out on some IRC mafia, so that's helping.

What's wrong with liking bandwagons? What's wrong with espeonage town hunting? And my explanation is that the kool seems like a good place to start with. I agree with espy's strategy so far and as far as I'm concerned we're not fully out of RVS yet, sure people are voting based on "reasons" but the majority of those are for a person who I am fairly certain is newbtown.

A few things.
1. Bandwagoning, if you use the world properly, is when someone just votes for someone based on other peoples' reasoning, or for no reason at all except to get a lynch. Having people use their own reasoning is heavily encouraged, which makes bandwagoning inherently slightly scummy, expecially now that some people, at least, are completely and fully out of RVS.
2. Town hunting? Unless I am completely misunderstanding that, you're basically saying 'let's lynch some townies!' Mind explaining the subtleties? Otherwise Esp needs to be lynched right now as a liability to the town. And you next, for thinking nothing wrong of it.
3. A good place to start with. What makes me a better place to start with than the places people have already started? This makes no sense.
4. I have been convinced that Elfin is either newbtown, or clever scum. He has not entirely convinced me he isn't clever, but time will tell. For now,
UNVOTE:

RV: SleepyKrew

unvote

Necessary Evil how are pointing out contradictions making something out of nothing?

vote: Elfen

FoS: Necessary and Kalofer

Clarification: I [was / am still] using the same reasoning.

All of his post, really not saying anything really, any one else think of this?

Yeah, I have seen avoiding notice by not posting much used as a mafia tactic before. Tricky, because idle-voting is something I've also seen in nearly every game I've been in. And people who can't be on as much as others are inherently going to post less, like me. But that isn't just not being on much, that's straight up not saying anything. Looks suspicious to me.

[SleepyKrew]

Elf, can you link that game? Modkilled for a claim is just...wrong. Also, I'm reading that as a vanilla claim.
Quinn, I agree with both suspects, but I'd like you to look at NesEvil as well.
Also agree, Esp needs to go.
Kalofer provided real content? Holy shit! But we are indeed out of RVS.
Elf, his reasoning is (most likely) the same as everyone else that voted you.

FoSes:
Esp
Kalofer
NeEvil

I'm going to meta Elf and see what I can find. I'd appreciate if you provided some games from that other site as well?

[Quinnster]

I'll read NesEvil in ISO in a bit. But, Kool, what Kalofer and Espeonage want to do (townhunting) is look for people they believe to be town, not lynch them. They're working the process of elimination from the other end. I don't agree with it, but they're not trying to lynch townies.

[The Kool]

Okay, that makes more sense. I was confused a bit there.

People keep going back and reading the thread, huh? Man, I might do that, but I don't have the dedication or the time. So, unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, I often rely on other peoples' evidence and theories, and use those to formulate my own (note that I do not just bw along with their theories).

[CooLskins]

^my exact thoughts. Mod killed for claiming something different? What the hell.

@espy/kool/espy town hunting thing. Okay where to start?
Town hunting is a perfectly valid strategy. Lets just say that right here and now. Vi wrote something about this that really hits the nail on the head (its on the wiki @ http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ot_fit_all). By the process of elimination if you find all the townies then you automatically know the scum. I personally don't like doing that, but what ever works for you/him is best. So from Vi:

scumhunting is hyped up pretty well, but being able to Townhunt is fairly close behind in terms of importance. For obvious reasons, you don't want to lynch someone you have identified as Town. In addition, as you accumulate Town reads you can begin to lynch and argue from process of elimination. As long as your Town reads are accurate, process of elimination is one of the scariest things you can do to scum - now they not only have to look Town (which is already difficult for them), but they have to look more Town than others in order to evade your suspicion.

Of course, this leaves the question of how to identify Townies. This comes with the same experience described earlier when scumhunting was discussed.

I don't find town hunting in itself to be scummy.

I'm kinda getting why my other head likes kool as scum now, yet I'm still not convinced, I'm going to prod him to get in here and post his thoughts so far.

@mod, mind pming the people who have yet to confirm?

[SleepyKrew]

Well, based off the meta, I'd say I have a theory on Elf. But one game isn't much to go on. While I wait for his links, I'll meta my other FoSes.

[CooLskins]

ninja'd and I didn't want to put some on my above post...

Okay, that makes more sense. I was confused a bit there.

People keep going back and reading the thread, huh? Man, I might do that, but I don't have the dedication or the time. So, unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it,

I often rely on other peoples' evidence and theories

, and use those to formulate my own (note that I do not just bw along with their theories).

So you admit to being a sheep? And that you are easily manipulated by popular opinion? So you are admitting to a lack of independent judgment? This reads as going with the flow to me.

[Quinnster]

Have fun meta-ing Korlash.

[CooLskins]

damn you people ninja and I'm to impulsive and always press the submit button...

@sleepy, how much is a meta argument really worth?

[SleepyKrew]

Hydraguy: I think you should read the part after the bold. It contradicts you. Ooh, I feel like Phoenix Wright.
Quinn, did you mean Kalofer?
Hydra: I've never actually used meta before. As for Elf, like I said not much to go on. That's why I requested stuff from his old site.

[Quinnster]

Kalofer, yes. My mistake. I'm playing with a Korlash in my other game.

[CooLskins]

^yes, but he says that he uses other peoples reasons to make his own. This (at least how I read it) shows a lack of content generation and a simple follower. Even if he does change things around a bit the core of his positions will always be other peoples. Also give up on meta. Its not that useful.

[CooLskins]

second sentience is scrambled. Should read:
This (at least how I read it) shows a lack of content generation, and makes him a simple follower.

[The Kool]

Okay, that makes more sense. I was confused a bit there.

People keep going back and reading the thread, huh? Man, I might do that, but I don't have the dedication or the time. So, unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, I often rely on other peoples' evidence and theories,

and use those to formulate my own (note that I do not just bw along with their theories).

[CooLskins]

Read above.

[SleepyKrew]

Kalofer is definitel scum. More insights soon

[The Kool]

Okay, ninja'd there. I do make my own theories. I do read the entire thread, but as it happens. I have never yet reread an entire game just to find something new, and note-taking is not my forte. I ought to try to work on this, but when one is rather busy and doesn't have hours of time to devote to scumhunting, one has to rely on the second-best thing.

And keep in mind I am still perfectly capable of analyzing someone else's reasoning, and lynching them. I have done it.

[SleepyKrew]

*definitely

[Kalofer]

You got that right, when do we lynch...wait what?