Newbie Game 1106: Death with a 2x4 (limps to finish line)

[Ant]

Whoa, there's been a ton of information since I left. Anyway, when I said "pressure/lynch vote combo" I was just waiting until his motives for self voting were completely clear. (as of right now, I understand why he did it, so I'm backing off of Korlash)

[Korlash]

*whistles* and I thought I posted a lot...

Picking and choosing what to comment on, well, of course. It's not like I can comment on every single thing that happens in this game. It doesn't mean I'm not picking up on everything that's going on, or that I'm not reading everything. I comment on what I feel should be commented on. Isn't that normal?

The "what do you think of the others" post was to someone who said they didn't know what to post. I don't know what's suspicious about that. The *Twiddles thumbs* post was because I (as well as a few others) was waiting on zMuffinMan's explanation, and didn't really have anything to say at that point except that I was waiting; a point that Quinnster had also made, albeit with words, in the post before mine. Everything that I felt should have been said had been said, at least from me, so it was just a waiting game for zMuffinMan. To be honest I feel like even though you're not calling me very scummy, putting a scum spin on these posts is slightly suspicious to me.

The Selective commenting thing isn't a huge deal to me, it feels like you are posting just enough to integrate into the game while staying moot on whatever you can. Take for example your interaction with Ant. You ask him a lot of questions, but don't actually seem to point out anything specific. Yet your willing to put him at L-1 for a vague "You seem suspicious."

As for the twiddle thumbs incident, it doesn't matter to who you said it or why, asking someone for opinions of others suggest you are in favor of sharing thoughts on the others. So when there is a lull in a certain topic why not take the time to share your own opinions of others instead of waiting for something to happen. Why let discussion stagnate when you could add something on a different topic while waiting? That sort of thing always stands out to me. And this whole "Quin did it too" thing just sounds like deflection. Just because another player did something similar doesn't excuse you from your actions. Focus on your own explanations of things, don't try to drag someone else into it. It's never a good route to take.

How would that be 3:1?

Well a mislynch, followed by a night kill, followed by a scum lynch, followed by a night kill would be three dead townies to one dead scum. In addition, your comments seem to imply you think a hammer is more likely to come from a scum then a townie, which I find to be statistically untrue. So the ratio is probably in perspective even worse then that.

Korlash: You're the IC, so obviously you're helping us out a lot in your role as IC. However, we shouldn't necessarily take that as a town read; the IC role and the mafia/town role are two completely separate things. As it is, I am having a very, very hard time reading you. I would say neutral.

The trick is to start on the right hand side and read every other word in a clockwise pattern. See I was written in code to confuse my enemies. But shhhh, it's a secret. Can't let this intel get into the wrong hands you know.

Exactly! If you twiddle thumbs, why not post meaningful content instead? [<- this what I think Korlash was trying to say - while I agree with him in principle on that point, I would never have called out anyone on a *twiddles thumb* post]

I've um... managed to call people out on their confirmation posts before... <.< very unique way of looking at things sometimes.

Okay, I'm "slightly scum", but am the second most scummy player in your List. Only Anka gets a "Small scum vibes.", everybody is neutral or town. Wow, when I saw your list, I thought "What?!", but now its "okay, this does not mean much apparently: Nearly everyone is town/neutral".
@Post 49/55: Well, yeah, I explained that already. Does anyone find something about the posts suspicious?
@First to FoS: Okay, that is a really weak reason, is it? I'm too lazy to use the Searchfunction now (and because I really should do my assignement instead of posting here ), but I bet I can point to a ton of Games were the first FoS comes from town. This is a baseless attack, imho.
@Interaction with Poi: What about it? What parts of it want you to call me out for, and why?
@Defense: Mhm. I wanted to say that Ant was shrinking back from his vote on korlash so quick and hefty, that the vote seemed to lack conviction in the first place. Thats what I wanted to say.
@Backing my Vote for Ant: I did in the meantime.

well it was my first reads of the game, I don't usually expect everybody to stand out... could you honestly say the majority of the people wouldn't fall into town/neutral for you right now?

There are two 'scum tells' i do actually take seriously (used to point me in the direction of suspects, not used to actually build cases) those are FoSs and third votes on wagons. You've managed both, and so I'm not surprised you pinged high on my scumdar. I wouldn't say they actually hold a lot of weight, but they certainly aren't baseless. Link

Your post 49 did seem oddly concerned with your own appearance but i can understand the reasons you gave. I don't want to get into your interactions with Poi because I don't see it leading anywhere. As for your ant vote, I can buy that I suppose.

Actually, the reason for my vote wasn't really the same.

For example, Ankamius's vote on Ant was due to Ant's vote-hopping (which he said is pointing fingers everywhere for any reason at all). I don't quite agree with this, and although I don't like Ant's vote-hopping, I don't think his vote-hopping in itself is scummy in any way.

And as far as I can tell, Gir's vote on Ant was due to cautious defense when he unvoted Embit and voted you.

I was really just looking at the reasons he's voting people or calling people town. In particular, his suspicion of you since the beginning of the game came off as disingenuous.

yeah I did you before the other two so I kinda had to remember the wagon from memory. Your reasons given did seem to be bad attacks and vote hoping which did seem to match up with Anka's reasoning. Meant to come back and fix this after the other reads but it was late and I was tired... >.> /excuses...

Korlash is my shepherd. baaa!

Flattery will get you everywhere, as will gifts... Cough it up before I make me some lamb chop muffins. All seriousness though, do you have something to add here?

I'm pursuing this line of questioning because it was something I found noteworthy and wanted to hear what you had to say about it, and wanted to see how you would react to being put under a little bit of pressure.

I was going to echo Z's question but I like this answer.

Korlash – Also willing to put himself out there for discussion's sake. I find nothing scummy about the self-vote at the top of the game, and since then he hasn't been under much scrutiny. Sometimes, I think you hide behind the sarcastic humor, and could get to the point a bit more quickly than you do. Since I find gut reads to be a little useless, I'd like to see him build his case against Doom if he has one, but that may be a pipe dream at this point in the game. Null leaning town.

But taking the roundabout route is way more fun for everyone involved... You see new sites, hear new things, smell new smells... Not always the best case there but the other two are good.

I like the idea of getting a Gir 'case' worked up. With how much he has posted I think i could manage a fairly good read through it. Might be a day or two before I have time though.

[Ant]

Individual player analysis:

In order listed in the first post:

Ant

: I still find Ant relatively suspicious. Reading back, however, and seeing his overall newness, it is clear that he either 1) Truly is a newb or 2) is pretending to be to get a slight newb-card advantage. However, even with a newb card,

there are still some things I find slightly scummy, and can't just write them all off on newness.

what kind of things do you find scummy? So far I:

-random voted for mrguy
-voted for embit because he was inactive
-voted for korlash due to his self vote
-switched to mrguy again because there wasn't much information on him at all then, even now.

[mrguy888]

While a couple people seemed suspicious to me at first, the first person who I actually think looks scummy is Muffin. Looking back at his posts I see some major issues I would like him to address.

and confirming intent to pull an archon in this game.

Oh, yeah? Well, I'll call you an idiot and tell you to lynch me.

Sheeping the IC. Also stealing cake is generally a scum-motivated action.

His first three posts have laid the groundwork for him to go about acting scummy, making no sense and not thinking for himself. While this on its own at the start could be seen as joking around he has really lived up to his first claims.

Muffin then votes for Ant with no reason given. He claims he needed to get sleep first but his reasons for voting Ant were barely longer than his explanation as to why he didn't give an explanation right away. In his next post he votes for someone else with his only reasoning being he is doing whatever Korlash does. He gave no reasoning in his last 3 posts to date which were him giving really weak defenses about voting Ant and his reason given later.

If he isn't scum he is at best playing rather anti-town. He doesn't think for himself and when he acts on his own he gives no explanation. He has not posted any content in the game, and based on his posts so far he doesn't seem to intend on doing it anytime in the future.
UNVOTE: Dr Doom
VOTE: zMuffinMan

[mrguy888]

I've um... managed to call people out on their confirmation posts before... <.< very unique way of looking at things sometimes.

Heh. You posted this while I was writing my thoughts on Muffin. I didn't want to read your wall of text before I posted because at first glance it looked unrelated to my post, but I find this funny considering that confirmation posts are a part of my suspicions of Muffin.

[Poiven]

Individual player analysis:

In order listed in the first post:

Ant

: I still find Ant relatively suspicious. Reading back, however, and seeing his overall newness, it is clear that he either 1) Truly is a newb or 2) is pretending to be to get a slight newb-card advantage. However, even with a newb card,

there are still some things I find slightly scummy, and can't just write them all off on newness.

what kind of things do you find scummy? So far I:

-random voted for mrguy
-voted for embit because he was inactive
-voted for korlash due to his self vote
-switched to mrguy again because there wasn't much information on him at all then, even now.

I'll post a more detailed analysis of you soon, Ant.

mrguy888, your case on zMuffinMan is, in my eyes, somewhat weak. Very slight scum vibes for that, but only very slight.

[Poiven]

I was thinking about changing my vote to korlash, but maybe embit and mrguy888 are staying out of the conversation intentionally so they don't give away their roles in a slip up. Yep, keeping my vote for mrguy.

While your vote for mrguy888 was originally a random vote, you kept it because you felt he was keeping information from us by being inactive for a while. In this post you implicate three people but stick with the easiest target. Reads as scum.

I was going to vote for korlash but as a placeholder vote until now I was voting for you. Now that you've come out I'll switch my vote. Once I et a little bit more info I can always switch back. I dint think I was quick to point fingers, I was just pointing out your inactivity. I totally get it though, I was overwhelmed at first as well.

Unvote embit

Vote Korlash

I'll be honest, I don't find this all that scummy, Dr Doom. Perhaps not the best wording, but I don't find anything inherently scummy in this post.

A lynch vote/pressure vote combo. I just want more info, that's all. Something about him doesn't seem right. But from the other game korlash has played in (the one he put in a link) it seems like he always puts himself out there. (part of his tactic on gathering info I guess)

You never really did explain what you found scummy about Korlash besides his self-vote, which he explained; and you seemed content with the explanation.

Sorry, I posted that before reading korlash's new post, I thought it went through but it didn't. I realize the faults in my logic, though. I'm just confusing myself though. I'll just keep my vote and see what happens. Here's a question korlash: do you think I'm lying about my claim? Do you believe I am scum?

I find this post the scummiest. You realize the faults in your logic (you realize you're voting for someone for bad reasons) but you're just keeping your vote there?

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But every game seems like a stretch. If he does then he must be used to having a lot of suspicion surrounding him.

It was proven that he does this very often; why are you still so suspicious of him?

His hidden reasons for voting for himself. He has already stated that he does it to gather more information by being attacked directly, but for what other reason could it be? Maybe he's just hiding the fact that he's scum by showing how willing he is to vote for himself, even if he does do it almost every game.

If he was a townie, then why even bother causing confusion by voting for himself?

Why would a scum vote for himself just to show that he is willing to? What other reason does he need than to gather information on other people? And if he does it almost every other game,

how is that a scum read

?

I'll admit I am pointing fingers very quickly. Everyone seems town, though. Whoever is scum is doing a good job of hiding it. I'm just grasping at straws here.

Who seems most scummy to you? Is it still Korlash?

Honestly... Not any more. He did at first, but I guess the only one left is mrguy.

unvote

vote mrguy888

And that's how quickly you gave up your case on Korlash; even though nothing new had happened in that area. Why the change of mind all of a sudden? And why mrguy888? Just because he was inactive? Again going for an easy target just because you can.

Individual player analysis:

In order listed in the first post:

Ant

: I still find Ant relatively suspicious. Reading back, however, and seeing his overall newness, it is clear that he either 1) Truly is a newb or 2) is pretending to be to get a slight newb-card advantage. However, even with a newb card,

there are still some things I find slightly scummy, and can't just write them all off on newness.

what kind of things do you find scummy? So far I:

-random voted for mrguy
-voted for embit because he was inactive
-voted for korlash due to his self vote
-switched to mrguy again because there wasn't much information on him at all then, even now.

Why not ask him questions instead of just voting for him without stating a reason?

All in all, I am actually getting a pretty solid scum read from you, Ant.

VOTE: Ant

Also, Dr Doom, to answer your question as to why I didn't vote for you; I wanted to give you a chance to respond to what I had said about you. Your responses and your posts since then have been pretty decent, so I'm slightly less suspicious. In fact, I had already mentioned that before, and mentioned that I wasn't sure you were the top of my list anymore. You're still slightly suspicious to me, but not as much as before.

[Ant]

I don't see how im going after the "easiest target," I'm just gathering information from people who haven't posted that much.

"Why not ask him questions instead of just voting for him without stating a reason?"

He never gave me a reason as to why he voted for me. I cant locate the post right now, I'm headin out soon. But yes, I should ask a question. Hmm... What to ask, though?
I'll think about and post when I come back

"You never really did explain what you found scummy about Korlash besides his self-vote, which he explained; and you seemed content with the explanation."

Yes, I was content with his explanation. That's pretty much the answer to your own question.

[mrguy888]

mrguy888, your case on zMuffinMan is, in my eyes, somewhat weak. Very slight scum vibes for that, but only very slight.

I suppose, but to be fair there is only 12 short posts to go on. I think some pressure on Muffin is warranted to force him to act or give off scum tells though. He needs to give better reasons than he has for his actions. And to be clear, this isn't a case against Muffin but more of a list of action I want him to explain written in a way that I hope gets more people interested in pressing for explanations because the more people press, the more likely he is to explain himself.

[Poiven]

I don't see how im going after the "easiest target," I'm just gathering information from people who haven't posted that much.

"Why not ask him questions instead of just voting for him without stating a reason?"

He never gave me a reason as to why he voted for me. I cant locate the post right now, I'm headin out soon. But yes, I should ask a question. Hmm... What to ask, though?
I'll think about and post when I come back

"You never really did explain what you found scummy about Korlash besides his self-vote, which he explained; and you seemed content with the explanation."

Yes, I was content with his explanation. That's pretty much the answer to your own question.

Then why did you vote for him? You keep contradicting yourself.

[mrguy888]

Just a quick note that Ant is at L-1 so be careful where you place your votes. We still have daylight to burn.

[Poiven]

I'm sorry, I didn't even notice that. I should have payed closer attention to that.

I don't want to see Ant hammered right now. We do still have a lot of daylight to burn and I'd like to see more discussion before we hammer anybody. There are still quite a few people who haven't said much and I'd like to hear from them.

Thank you for pointing that out, mrguy888.

[Ankamius]

WOW GUYS. I go to sleep and school and come home to TWO pages of content, a lot of which are huge posts. I'm going to need some time to look through all this and decide what to make of it. I'm going to get a headache from this, LOL.

[Ankamius]

First of all, since I'm behind on things and want to be sure I can sort things out before I keep a vote on someone,

Unvote Ant

. I'll post more content soon.

[Dr Doom]

I'm sorry, I didn't even notice that. I should have payed closer attention to that.

I don't want to see Ant hammered right now. We do still have a lot of daylight to burn and I'd like to see more discussion before we hammer anybody. There are still quite a few people who haven't said much and I'd like to hear from them.

Thank you for pointing that out, mrguy888.

If you dont want ANt to be lynched, why not unvote when hes on L-1?

(Now, hes on L-2, so you dont need to unvote anymore)

[Dr Doom]

Oh, and I want to see more discussion, too. especially from the guys who have not contributed much yet.

[Poiven]

I'm sorry, I didn't even notice that. I should have payed closer attention to that.

I don't want to see Ant hammered right now. We do still have a lot of daylight to burn and I'd like to see more discussion before we hammer anybody. There are still quite a few people who haven't said much and I'd like to hear from them.

Thank you for pointing that out, mrguy888.

If you dont want ANt to be lynched, why not unvote when hes on L-1?

(Now, hes on L-2, so you dont need to unvote anymore)

I said I didn't want him hammered; I didn't have a major problem with L-1. (I'm hoping I don't catch flak for that; I'm not sure how big a deal L-1 is here, but where I play it's not really such a huge thing.)

If someone had hammered him, though, yeah, I would have been annoyed, and probably would have seriously questioned their town alignment.

[Ankamius]

Going to do page 6 alone in this post. Pages 7 and 8 are forthcoming with a summary coming afterwards.

Anka

- A couple things, the vote on Embit. Made to get him pressured and into the game, but removes it after one post, a post he didn't even comment on. Then he says he needs to go back through the thread to see who's been scummy, but comes back with just stuff on Ant. I get finding someone scummy and wanting to get that stuff out there, but then you physically make a post stating "I don't have much to say". You just went over the thread, what about the other people? His interaction with Mrguy seems to fit with the way he's been playing so far, the wanting to get other people into the game, but only makes me more suspicious of his earlier Embit vote. Small scum vibes.

I made the post saying I didn't have much to say because I had made a case on Ant and didn't yet have much since then to go on. Since the game was mostly a standstill from the time I voted Ant to my posting of that, I didn't find much else to comment on at that point.

The difference between my reactions to Embit and Mrguy888 was due to the way they were inactive before their first post after confirmations. I saw Embit online (but without posting) shortly before I placed my pressure vote upon him so that I could get him to post. Mrguy888 hadn't even been on the site since his confirmation and I simply assumed it was weekend business.

My vote on Embit was there since I didn't yet have enough scumvibes to vote anyone I wished to lynch. I was more concerned at that moment with making sure everyone was participating either way, so as to give me a complete read later on. I unvoted when I did since my goal was met and there was no more point to it.

I'm getting general town reads on Korlash and Poiven so far.

Is this still true?

We will see.

How is Ant changing positions here, exactly?

3 of Anks next 4 points are more of the same: Behaving obviously protown, but not giving out opinion on oneself. He does, however, restate in the other post, that he thinks Ant is still scummy.
What about teh other Players, Ankamius? I have no Idea what you think about any of the other people, now that everybody made an appereance.

I said Ant was changing positions because of these posts.

I guess that ankamius and poiven seem like town. I didn't find anything really suspicious yet. Other than korlash's vote for himself. I can't think of a reason to do that unless he's scum. If he were town, what would be the point of voting for himself, to show that he's innocent enough to be able to do so? I don't know, just seems odd.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But every game seems like a stretch. If he does then he must be used to having a lot of suspicion surrounding him.

A lynch vote/pressure vote combo. I just want more info, that's all. Something about him doesn't seem right. But from the other game korlash has played in (the one he put in a link) it seems like he always puts himself out there. (part of his tactic on gathering info I guess)

Sorry, I posted that before reading korlash's new post, I thought it went through but it didn't. I realize the faults in my logic, though. I'm just confusing myself though. I'll just keep my vote and see what happens. Here's a question korlash: do you think I'm lying about my claim? Do you believe I am scum?

I'll admit I am pointing fingers very quickly. Everyone seems town, though. Whoever is scum is doing a good job of hiding it. I'm just grasping at straws here.

Who seems most scummy to you? Is it still Korlash?

Honestly... Not any more. He did at first, but I guess the only one left is mrguy.

unvote

vote mrguy888

Quick note: The only posts between the last 2 of these quoted posts were me making my case, Ant admitting he's quick to point fingers, and me asking if Korlash is still scummy. I'm aware that this point really doesn't work with my last case, but this strikes me as really odd. He has gained a new opinion of Korlash's self voting nearly every time he's mentioned it up to that point.

Also, thanks for posting this post again with fixed tags. I only wish I had noticed you fixed it before trying to use it. ._.

[mrguy888]

If someone had hammered him, though, yeah, I would have been annoyed, and probably would have seriously questioned their town alignment.

I put the L-1 warning so people couldn't hide behind saying "I didn't realize". Everyone should double check the current vote number before ever submitting a vote and put an L-1 warning if their vote is the second last one. We don't want a quick lynch and especially don't want a scum to get away with doing it.

[Poiven]

If someone had hammered him, though, yeah, I would have been annoyed, and probably would have seriously questioned their town alignment.

I put the L-1 warning so people couldn't hide behind saying "I didn't realize". Everyone should double check the current vote number before ever submitting a vote and put an L-1 warning if their vote is the second last one. We don't want a quick lynch and especially don't want a scum to get away with doing it.

That's what I meant; as in, if anyone had hammered after the L-1 warning, their alignment would have come in question for me.

Anyway, I must be off to sleep, I may possibly be on tomorrow morning before school, we'll see. Won't have a lot of time tomorrow in general though.

[Ankamius]

First of all, you have 3 Posts with content to your Name. Not enough at all.

It's been pretty much three days. Most other games I have seen on this site usually have people post once a day on average. You've been saying this type of post quite a bit from what I've seen. Embit and Mrguy888 have only started posting at the end of the weekend and have been active since then. Quinnster and zMuffinMan strike me as the types that aren't able to post several times a day. These types of posts with this in mind don't strike me as useful, especially since we DID start in the weekend.

More discussion is better, but that does not mean everyone has to post as much as the most active member is.

VOTE: Ankamius

Korlash is my shepherd. baaa!

*slap*

I'm finished directly addressing anything directed to me so I will begin my summary.

For simplicity, I'll do it in alphabetical order.
Ant
Dr Doom
embit
Korlash
mrguy888
Poiven
Quinnster
zMuffinMan

--

ANT (32 posts as of the making of this post)

I really don't think I have to add a whole lot more. He's only posted three times since I last checked the thread, and nothing outstandingly new came up since then either way.

--

Dr Doom (32 posts as of the making of this post)

Dr Doom first responds several times in points made during the Poiven-Korlash 'debate'.

Poiven and to a larger degree Quinnster are a bit suspicious.

Quinnster because of the excluded middle/false dilemma in his post. And his scum reading is wrong, obviously

Poiven because... I don't know, being a bit wishy washy there, and then the weird defense. But it is not very strong, and will probably evaporate over the course of the game.

I didn't find anything wrong with either Quinnster's or Poiven's posts upon a reread of those you were responding to. This gave me more of an impression of making something out of nothing.

What do you mean by "have their turn in the spotlight"?
Who do you think is most probably a town player right now?
I'm getting weird vibes from you right now...

He had said you were the scummiest player in his eyes in that post, so he answered your second question right there. I don't see any issues with his posts before that, so I'm not quite sure what gave you weird vibes up to that point. It looked like a simple way to gain information on someone, and I believe it succeeded.

Your response in the next post (ISO#10) put everything in perspective. I'm only getting a very small vibe from this now.

The Lurkers need to speak up!
Have said zero:
# embit
# mrguy888

Why do two people (Ant and Ankamius) vote for embit, but noone for mrguy888? Ant changed his vote from mrguy888 to embit and Ankamius from Ant to embit - a pattern?

I stated specifically why I voted for Embit, and Ant had the same reason.

Post #10 is putting up a red flag to me, simply for this:

hey everyone, sorry for the inactivity on my part. i was a little intimidated to start talking since i wasn't entirely sure what to say.
anyway, i've read through the thread and hopefully i will be taking a role of a more active contributor from here on in!

Question for Embit, who do you think looks scummy?

you!

mainly because you're:
1) a little quick to point fingers and
2) comes off a little strongly for things that (to me) seem like null-tells. you claim that only scum 'would have reason' to self-vote, and inactivity (as on my part) is 'staying out of the conversation intentionally so they don't give away their roles'.

do you honestly believe this is the case? if only scum would have reason to self-vote, why not vote for korlash, since he therefore must be scum?

What do you mean with "quick to point fingers"? WHat do you mean with "a little quick"? What time would be more acceptable for you?
You say in 2) that Ant finds "selfvoting" and "lurking" to be scummy, but you say that Ant should only vote for Korlash. You have been lurking - a vote on you is totally acceptable by Ant's standard. What is so scummy about that?
And why is any of that a null-tell?

To me it is pretty obvious what Ant meant, and, to me, you are overblowing a lot. Why? Are you nervous about getting voted on?

I was going to vote for korlash but as a placeholder vote until now I was voting for you. Now that you've come out I'll switch my vote. Once I et a little bit more info I can always switch back. I dint think I was quick to point fingers, I was just pointing out your inactivity. I totally get it though, I was overwhelmed at first as well.

Unvote embit

Vote Korlash

At first reading, this seemed totally scummy, but on second reading it was not. Then, it came back to me. This defense seems way too cautious, nearly intimidated.

Unvote

VOTE: Ant
Remind me to explain this when I'm awake.

Waiting for an explanation, but I'm with you.

All in all, VOTE: Ant.

He mentioned in ISO#9 about Ant voting for Embit and not Mrguy888, but this is weak at best. His only other reference to Ant beforehand was saying that he had voted, but done nothing else so far. Suddenly, his stance completely changes. After zMuffinMan posts that he's voting Ant with a promised explanation, Dr Doom immediately votes for Ant based on him putting his vote back on Korlash, stating that the vote seems too cautious. This gives me a bad vibe from Dr Doom.


Post #10 was the last post since I last checked the site. That means he posted over one an hour since then. This is a huge bulk of the content I have to catch up on, so I should be able to read the rest of the game fairly easily once I'm done with this section.

@jumping on the Bandwagon: I did not see Ankamius Post (Post Nr.101), in which he voted for Ant (Number two on the wagon) until after I posted mine, in which I was vote Number three. From my perspective, only zMuffin was voting for Ant (note that I am very comfortable with having ANt at Lynch - 2 - if two people hammer, the chance to find scum among them is incredibly high, and then we exchanged 1:1 again). Plus it puts a lot on pressure on Ant, and if hes scum, he will hopefully crack. If he is not, he will (hopefully) not, and we can analyse who attacked him for what, and who defended him for what reasons.

My top two scummers so far: -Ant, although now getting a newbish vibe
-Ank

This gives me an even worse vibe. What makes the vote on Ant different than any other person, especially when (by what you claim) there is no stated evidence for it? Your aggression and your willingness to put someone at L-2 with that reasoning paints you as suspicious, especially when placed with your emphasis on discussion. If I had not placed anything related to Ant at the same time, there would be no reason for Ant to say anything in his defense until zMuffinMan posted. Even so, that's exactly what happened. I agree with zMuffinMan in that the bandwagon itself was suspicious, and you're the reason why.

Also, why are you going to vote Ant in the first place if you're getting the feeling that he's acting more newbish than scummish?

@I'm hoping for a lynch
How? With going from 1 vote to 2 (from my perspective) or even with 2 to 3? Read my last post again, where I say that putting pressure on is good. That vote on Ant was just my first firm committment in this game on who I find scummy, and that person at that time was Ant, and he was not even nearly getting lynched at that point. This is a baseless attack, imho.

You expressed opinions on Quinnster being scummy only 2 ISO posts beforehand, but you did not vote him then. The only difference I see between your suspicion on Quinnster and your suspicion on Ant is that someone already voted for Ant. This was also in the same post as the above, which only makes me even more confused about what you consider Ant.

ISO#13: Why did you wait to form a case on Ant? You gave no hint beyond what I've already stated beforehand why you were voting Ant.

3 of Anks next 4 points are more of the same: Behaving obviously protown, but not giving out opinion on oneself. He does, however, restate in the other post, that he thinks Ant is still scummy.
What about teh other Players, Ankamius? I have no Idea what you think about any of the other people, now that everybody made an appereance.

My original goal was the make sure everyone posted so that discussion could occur between everyone. Now that everyone has posted, this is a valid question.


I don't find anything but null tells within his conversation with Embit and I have already responded to his post on me in ISO#21. Slight town tells on his post to Poiven.

If I attack Player A, and Player B attacks the same Player, I am not convinced of B's innocence. And if I think that Player B attacks A for bullshit reasons, I will attack B. I will do that all the time. It is easy for scum to get on bandwagons if noone examines the other players attacks.

This logic is why your vote on Ant irked me.

No, see my Post 135. When I originally voted for Ant, I had all that in mind, but not in words on paper.

If you're going to commit to someone, explain! If you have things to say but don't say them, that's denying the town information. I'm sure I've repeated this enough by now, but giving a vote completely out of the blue outside of the RVS directly after someone votes without much information is suspect at best.

@First to FoS: Okay, that is a really weak reason, is it? I'm too lazy to use the Searchfunction now (and because I really should do my assignement instead of posting here ), but I bet I can point to a ton of Games were the first FoS comes from town. This is a baseless attack, imho.

Just because it's more likely to happen doesn't mean it has happened this game.

For everything else, I'm getting either null or town tells.

Dr Doom's original vote for Ant irks me quite a bit. The post where he says he had reasons for said vote that he did not state dashed my idea a bit that it was simply a newbish mistake, and his style doesn't seem like one to leave out cases like that to otherwise leave a nearly-baseless vote. He's not someone I will say is really scummy right now, but his posts don't add up. He does, however, have enough null and town tells that he's giving me a smaller read than otherwise.

--

I'm going to take a short break. This section took nearly three hours to write and it's starting to give me a headache. I'll do the rest of the players later tonight.

[zMuffinMan]

You remind me of Season 6 of lost. You had me on the edge of my seat waiting for the argument that was going to bring me to your side. And what was it? Pretty much “ditto what everyone else said”.

To be fair, when I went to sleep, I didn't actually expect 2 more votes to be on Ant when I woke up, so it's not like I planned it. Considering I would have been expected to give an explanation regardless of whether anyone voted for Ant in between the time I did and the time I next posted, this seems like a rather moot point.

And I still think my explanation was different from Ankamius's or Gir's, so if you're going to insist mine was the same as the others, you'll have to elaborate on that.

So, why the vote on Ank?

Well, Korlash summed up his early play quite well, so I'm just parroting him here...

His early vote on Embit (pressure on Embit due to seeing him online) followed by a statement that he has to go through the thread and find who's scummy followed by a post dedicated entirely to Ant made me think he was insincerely trying to look like he was scum hunting.

The actual reason he voted for Ant is one I really don't agree with either. Vote-hopping in itself is not a scum tell, and is something I don't find scummy. It's actually something I find town are more likely to do than scum, purely because it doesn't benefit scum to take so many different positions. Not that Ant is more likely town because of this, but my issue is that this wasn't a really a good reasont to be suspicious of him in the first place.

Not to mention he completely misrepresented one of the reasons for Ant's vote ("You first vote for Mrguy because he has been inactive until now" - completely untrue). Besides the fact this was a complete misrepresentation of the reason for his RVS vote, it was also... a RVS vote... and pointing fingers during RVS... is normal...

Actually, he gave us little to no explanation.

Just because I didn't go into massive amounts of detail with pbpa, analysing every little thing he's done, doesn't mean I didn't give an explanation. I've given my reason for voting Ant, if you want to pick it apart, go ahead. If not, why do you keep mentioning it?

Your reasons given did seem to be bad attacks and vote hoping which did seem to match up with Anka's reasoning

Well, my only problem with vote-hopping is that it's hard for me to solidify a read when someone does that, so I wasn't really voting him for vote-hopping, just commenting that I didn't like it.


@mrguy888, re:#178

Which "major issues" do you actually want me to address? All I really see is a smear campaign.

[Ankamius]

His early vote on Embit (pressure on Embit due to seeing him online) followed by a statement that he has to go through the thread and find who's scummy followed by a post dedicated entirely to Ant made me think he was insincerely trying to look like he was scum hunting.

My vote on embit was a pressure vote. I checked back a few hours later and noticed that embit posted, so I unvoted and said I would look back to see who looks scummy because an entire page of posts had shown up between those two posts.

The actual reason he voted for Ant is one I really don't agree with either. Vote-hopping in itself is not a scum tell, and is something I don't find scummy. It's actually something I find town are more likely to do than scum, purely because it doesn't benefit scum to take so many different positions. Not that Ant is more likely town because of this, but my issue is that this wasn't a really a good reasont to be suspicious of him in the first place.

I wasn't as much suspicious of the vote hopping (although I understand how badly worded my post was) as much as him changing his stance on Korlash.

Back to my summary.

[mrguy888]

Your reasons given did seem to be bad attacks and vote hoping which did seem to match up with Anka's reasoning

Well, my only problem with vote-hopping is that it's hard for me to solidify a read when someone does that, so I wasn't really voting him for vote-hopping, just commenting that I didn't like it.

@mrguy888, re:#178

Which "major issues" do you actually want me to address? All I really see is a smear campaign.

I'll try to make it more clear for you then.

So, why the vote on Ank?

Well, Korlash summed up his early play quite well,

so I'm just parroting him here...

This is probably my biggest issue. You have not posted very much of your own thinking. Another issue is how you keep saying things that on the surface seem in jest about making yourself look scummy. The quotes in my original post about my thoughts about you contain the first three times you did this. I can't help but suspect more sinister motives. Why would a town player resign himself to not making sense and sheeping?
The little you posted without following Korlash was your vote against Ant.

Actually, he gave us little to no explanation.

Just because I didn't go into massive amounts of detail with pbpa, analysing every little thing he's done, doesn't mean I didn't give an explanation. I've given my reason for voting Ant,

if you want to pick it apart, go ahead.

If not, why do you keep mentioning it?

Sure I will give it a shot. You said your reasoning was "

gut + his early posts were bad (I'm having a hard time reading his attack on Korlash as genuine and his vote hopping wasn't helping my read).

" I don't understand why this had to wait. It couldn't have taken more than a couple seconds more to type that than "

Remind me to explain this when I'm awake.

" It seems more like a cop out explanation to me. Here you state that vote hopping was part of the reason you voted for him yet you later state:

Vote-hopping in itself is not a scum tell, and is something I don't find scummy. It's actually something I find town are more likely to do than scum

This is a contradiction. Why did you put it in your reasoning as to why you voted Ant?
The major issues that I would like to see you address is lack of explanations and sheeping as well as preemptively announcing that you are not going to make and logical sense and keeping with your promise. Both those things seem very scummy to me.

[mrguy888]

EBWOP: make

any

logical