New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[Amor]

@Thor: Could you please explain how I'm "sort of sideline egging on a fight"? And I don't see what's so scummy about being suspicious of multiple people. It really looks like you're tunneling on me.

I will agree that I'm pretty uncomfortable with the "It has to be Silver or Sub" crowd.

[mastin2]

I will not take part in a Silver lynch. I'm having one of those feelings.
One of those moments which say, "STOP!"

Last time, I listened to said feeling, it was correct. And my original suspect was scum.

I'm gonna go with my history on this one. That is, I refuse to join the silver wagon and will continue to push SubSith. I'll accept the consequences if I'm wrong. But you're not getting me on there. Even though Silver was a scumread. I'm not going to go against this feeling.

Confirm Vote: SubZeroSith

.

[Pine]

Mastin's refusal to help with Silver's inevitable lynch is major scumpoints if Silver flips Town. Why? Because Mastin helped the Silver wagon develop, then abandoned it for townpoints on the not-going-to-happen-today counter-wagon when it became (probably) unstoppable. I've played with Mastin before, this kind of "go against expectations" style is like him.

[mastin2]

That's not the opinion I was expecting. I was kinda thinking that if Silver flipped scum that people'd suddenly be suspicious of me for not following through.

But, yeah. I know it makes no rational sense, but when I have one of those feelings, I can't go against them. Meaning I'd rather no-lynch right now than see a Silver lynch. Not the smartest play, but, well...it's just that feeling. I have no words to describe it. It's something which just hit me. Something clicked into place, snappeed, which made me suddenly against the lynch. And I have no clue what. It just happened, and I'm sticking to it.

[Pine]

Mastin, we've played together enough, and we have similar enough styles, that I feel I can be frank with you. I have those gut feelings too, and I can (and have) faked gut feelings of that nature as well. I know what it's like when they're real, and I know what it's like when they're fake.

I'm not having a gut feeling (in either direction at this point) on Silver. I'm going on interpretation of evidence.

I

am

having a gut feeling that

your

gut read is a fake one.

[Thor665]

@Amor

here

Hey, Sub and Silver might be town and all, I think I'll hop onto DK, I'll also ding Mastin for setting up chain lynches but than also suggest he might be right. Go Mastin, go!

Bwuh? Yeah, I want you dead.

[mastin2]

Whoah, really?

You have 'em, too?

Heh. Thought I was the only one.

But, yes. I have faked it before. Once.

When I first Hydra'd with Nacho as Calcifer, in Outdoorsmen Mafia 2. I faked a strong town-read on my scumbuddy.

I tend not to try and fake them that often, because I don't really understand them when I'm town. So, when I'm scum, I don't know how I'd act well enough if I were town to pull it off very often.

This read isn't a fake, though. I meant it. If I had the time to figure out why I felt this way, we might be able to understand things a bit better.

(Sorry. Feeling a bit incoherent at the moment.)

[silverbullet999]

Ah christ i'm skimming and rushing cause i'm tired as fux.

List of those I think are Scum: Sub
List of those I Suspect: Nhammen (explained below) Pine, and slightly the rest of my wagon
List of those I think are Town: -----

-Nhammen

why didn't you respond to the point that is the first quote in this post of mine?

Cause it's a wall and i missed it cause i skimmed it.
It's not the fact that he explains his vote that I found slightly scummy. It's that he kept basically saying "yeah this vote is slightly better than rvs etc"

FALSE! He said that the fact that you were forcing him to answer pointless questions was what was scummy. Although, there is no such thing as pointless questions, so I disagree with this part of the case. But, the fact that you are twisting this like this is pretty scummy.

Incorrect sir (he loses his town read from this)
Here's the quote
"Fun fact: the questions were pretty dumb and

my answering them only points to how scummy you are. I didn't even feel them worth responding to but fine

."
Please read and reread bolded, please further read his response when I told him my thoughts on it...
"They were minute and pointless. It isn't as if I don't have enough reason to think you're scum."
There's no misinterpretation or twisting here mister.

372, 374, I like how the two echo eachother.

I'm of the feeling that a no lynch would be a bad move and will self hammer if need be, You guys already know my feelings on things anyway

[quadz08]

The Almost There! Votecount

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

jmurph3 (0) –

L-2--->

silverbullet999 (7) – Maxous, SubzeroSith, Pine, nhammen, DeityKabuto, Surye, Knight of Cydonia
mastin2 (1) - Nobody Special
Wraith (0) -
Amor (1) –Thor665
nhammen (0) –
DeityKabuto (2) – Uite, Amor
Pine (0) –
MrZepher (0) -
Surye (0) -
Nobody Special (0) -
Thor665 (0) –
Uite (0) -
SubzeroSith (3) – mastin2, silverbullet999, Toon Fighter
Toon Fighter (0) –
Maxous (0) –
Knight of Cydonia (0) –

Not Voting (3) – MrZepher, Wraith, jmurph3

Deadline is in 37.5 hours, at May 18th at 4:00 PM Pacific Time.

Jmurph3 is V/LA indefinitely.

Prods will be issued to KoC, Wraith, Uite, and Nobody Special now (apologies for missing the NS prod earlier).

[Toon Fighter]

unvote, vote: silverbullet

[DeityKabuto]

@Amor

here

Hey, Sub and Silver might be town and all, I think I'll hop onto DK, I'll also ding Mastin for setting up chain lynches but than also suggest he might be right. Go Mastin, go!

Bwuh? Yeah, I want you dead.

Hey, what makes you feel scummy about me?

[DeityKabuto]

Btw, I could have swore one page ago, you were so certain of your vote on Amor, a change of heart, explain?

You had even said that everyone should get of silver and Sith's case, and vote Amor. Why, are you trying to defend them both?

[jmurph3]

Back from V/LA! My mouth hurts

Anywho, I'm catching up on things, but quickly since I just read it,

@DK: Thor wasn't calling you scummy; he was talking about a post that Amor made that was scummy (if you followed the link you would see it), in response to Amor's question:

@Thor: Could you please explain how I'm "sort of sideline egging on a fight"? And I don't see what's so scummy about being suspicious of multiple people. It really looks like you're tunneling on me.

[mastin2]

Silver's at L-1. This does not amuse me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Silver's at L-1.
I'm okay with this. Someone needs to be ready to hammer before deadline.
mastin's flip flopping on the silver wagon is noted. As is the fact he's put his fingers in about 4 different pies.
Likewise

[SubzeroSith]

As stated before, I am really only satisfied lynching silver.

I'm suspicious of Toon because of his earlier play, and because of his opportunistic re-voting of me.

I would like everyone to take a look at this post and this post. What is NS doing? Modding a new game and joining a VERY COMPLICATED theme game. What's he not doing? Playing this game. Lurking scum, good for lynching possibly tomorrow.

I see some of the points against Amor, but we've got bigger fishes to fry. I'll look at the cases against him in more detail tomorrow. Scummy, but lower on the priority list.

[silverbullet999]

Someone needs to be ready to hammer before deadline.

I'm of the feeling that a no lynch would be a bad move and will self hammer if need be, You guys already know my feelings on things anyway

Won't be done til midnightish eastern standard time

[nhammen]

I fell asleep while writing a post!! Well, here it is:

I'm attempting but I'm having genuine trouble figuring out what to make of everything. //Confused
I have time tomorrow to devote to a reread so I'll do that in the meantime... (and by tomorrow I apparently mean later today. hmmmm...)

Please try to at least pretend not to be scum. It makes the game more challenging and fun. Is there enough time before the deadline to change to Zepher? Unfortunately, I don't think so.

I'm sure there's scum on this wagon, taking advantage of SB's default scumminess. Looking at voting patterns, DeityKabuto clearly stands out. He's placed three votes so far, and all have been on well-developed wagons. He was the fourth vote on the Toon wagon, third on Pine, and fifth on SB's. Looking at his iso, it's a menagerie of stating the obvious, without much thought or analysis, like he's not actually trying to scumhunt.

UNVOTE: Toon Fighter
VOTE: DeityKabuto

This is also a pretty good case. I haven't noticed anything useful from him yet.

That is some reasonable logic there, but I am more of what the "town" wants. If the town wants a certain person lynch, then I will overview the case and gather my own reasoning. Scumhunting itself can make you look scummy, if you don't know what you're doing, which I've experienced in past games.

Ummmm... what?

Between the two of subzero and silver, I would much rather see silver lynched. I am not a fan of his play thus far, and I still really don't see the case against subzero.

Uite's most recent post is interesting, and also much more like his play that I've seen previously. He makes a very interesting point against DeityKabuto. Also, am I reading this wrong, or is this:

That is some reasonable logic there, but I am more of what the "town" wants. If the town wants a certain person lynch, then I will overview the case and gather my own reasoning. Scumhunting itself can make you look scummy, if you don't know what you're doing, which I've experienced in past games.

basically Deity stating that he has no intention to actually scumhunt and just hop on the most popular wagons?

That being said, however, the timing of Uite's post seems odd to me, especially since if I read the deadline right, we only have 4 days left, and Uite's trying to start a completely different wagon? It just seems a bit suspicious to me.

Also, for the moment, UNVOTE:

Agree with this entire post, except why the unvote? Oh that's answered in the next post. In that case, I agree with the entire post.

I don't really feel good about DK's responses. I really don't agree at all that townies can't all be predator, because all that means is "not every townie can scum hunt", which I vehemently disagree with. He seems to be giving himself an easy out to play an easy scum game. If this doesn't check out with his meta, then it is probably a safe bet that DK is scum. If it does check out with his meta, then he is short changing town a scum hunter every game he's town aligned.

I agree. Why do people have to essentially claim scum right before deadline? Give us time for a wagon to build up people!

The first group likely has one scum in it. (SubSith would be my guess.) The second group ALSO likely has scum in it, due to the size of the wagon. (Ditto.) In a game of this size, I'm assuming four scum, so that's pretty much a maximum of two in a wagon. (Admit it: as scum in a 4-man scumteam, you hesitate to join a wagon which already has two of your scumbuddies on it.)

Out of the first 3 on the wagon, I find Maxous more scummy than Subzero, although still not on the top four out of all players. Also, did you

read

TWBB? Your "admit it" is proven FALSE by that game alone. I know you were in the game, but apparently you weren't paying attention.

FoS: mastin2

I really don't like how you keep going on about the setup of who's scum, and not people's levels of scumming.

You've done this more than once before, if I am correct.

It's not really helping at all, it does not give the town any leads, your opinions aren't that strong, and it's fake-scum hunting imho. I would unvote you, but first I want to see silverbullet999 defend himself against the bandwagon.

Deity is scumhunting!! GASP. At least its a decent case from the perspective of someone that doesn't know mastin. But, this is mastin being mastin, unfortunately. Nullread.

I don't like Mastin's argument. Or, rather, I like the "at least two scum on this wagon" part of the argument,

but I don't like the whole "this is right regardless of silver's alignment" thing.

Also find it a little odd that mastin just accepted a VT claim and his vote which was going to be on silver depending on the result of the claim is now "firmly" on SubZero... "I'll consider my vote depending on your claim" doesn't read much like "firmly" to me...

Emphasis mine. This is actually quite a good point from KoC. Mastin's views seem impervious to potential flips atm, which is really concerning.

@Wraith: Why the townread on Mastin? FTR, I'm also very interested in what your answer is to Silver's question in #317.

I'll be blunt--the voting trick shenanigans Mastin is pulling with the Silver wagon (fake voting and then referring to himself as a ".5" vote or an honorary member of the wagon) is really squirrelly (since it gives him lots of outs to distance himself if Silver were to actually flip town), and his tunneling I think negates (or at least substantially mitigates) a lot of the scumhunting he is doing so far.

Also, Mastin, point blank--if Silver had 6 votes on him instead of 7, would your vote still be on me?

Am still feeling like NS is doing an excellent job of sliding underneath everyone's radar.

Agree with the points against mastin and NS. This voting trick stuff removes all accountability. Not acceptable.

The three posts above me (not wraiths) slightly disturb me.. I won't comment further on it just yet but yeah.

Ummm... why not? You are about to be lynched. You should be giving out your information as much as possible, not HIDING it.

This was the case in TWBB, too--Pine was scum, and got wagoned to 7. I accurately predicted the number of scum present, and it didn't MATTER if Pine was town or scum.

Excuse me!?!? This is a flat out LIE! And I honestly see no motivation for this. Let me quote from TWBB:

Pine (7) :

Diddin (2)

, Empking,

Parama, Wraith, Jerbs

, Evilpacman18

This Pine wagon ALSO needs 1-2 scum (else it was COMPLETELY town-driven--theoretically possible, but extremely improbable), but at this point, it really only can be Empking and/or Evil. :/

There were NO SCUM on the Pine wagon. You DID NOT accurately predict the number of scum on the wagon! You didn't even come close. So tell me, why are you falsely pushing the infallibility of your VCA methods?

Others might not think about it, but I dare you to make a serious argument against me, a serious argument that I'm wrong.

It's just not possible, because I'm right:

Interesting, because I just did!


----- wherever I fell asleep at -----

[silverbullet999]

wait a second.. KOC ANSWER THIS

KOC said

Oh, and there'll probably be something in there on the fact that SZS suddenly agrees with me which to be honest shocks me too but hey he had to come around eventually.

I said

When have you two been in heavy disagreement?

[SubzeroSith]

Ummm... why not? You are about to be lynched. You should be giving out your information as much as possible, not HIDING it.

^This. This. This.

That Silver is not being at all helpful with what little time he has left is another indication of scumminess. Someone hammer him, please.

Toon is still probscum. NS is still lurkerscum. But they can wait. Deadline is tomorrow.

[silverbullet999]

^Stop trying to get into things when I'm still waiting for responses... jesus^

You really need to die day 2

[SubzeroSith]

Dude, you don't need an invitation to be forthright or to offer parting thoughts. You kinda get there in your post at the top of the page, but not really. Your one scumread is...us? C'mon.

I'd rather you didn't have to self-hammer, as that would deprive the town of an optimal amount of information about your wagon, regardless of how you flip. Someone should hammer you.

[MrZepher]

Walls of realization thanks to nhammen. You're completely right.
Well for the most part; I think you're misunderstanding a couple things, but I need to change the way I'm approaching this game.

Gimme a bit to make a real post w/ vote.

[silverbullet999]

My one scum read is you,
I highly suspect Pine and Nhammen, and slightly suspect the rest of my wagon.

I also will throw Nobody Special in the highly suspect list because him being lurky as all hell is normally Nobody Special Scum though he normally does terribad posting as scum as well... and will probably eventually do so.

Deity wins some points for flip flopping me going "Eh you could be town or scum but I think town wants this so I'm gonna vote you" to then changing his opinion somewhere to "Silver is scum"

[silverbullet999]

^By points I mean scum point^