Mini 1170: Nowhereville Mafia '11- Over!

[The Kool]

D'oh, my bad.
VOTE: Kalofer

[Kalofer]

Now that defense is out of the way, I am finding Kal scummy right now. Since I suck at note-taking and presenting lists, I'll just try to name a few things I find scummy...

Mostly because of his whimsical voting for me back there for no reason whatsoever. The flimsy non-reason he gave wasn't even a valid one. Also his liking of bandwagons, in the scummy sense. Also his read on Elfen as newbtown, with no evidence to differentiate between that and clever mafia.

Also because I desire for there to be a lynch soon. This is and isn't a bandwagon. I have indeed presented reasoning above, which makes it, at least, less scummy than Kal's bandwagoning. He has presented some redeeming logic, but anyone can be logical, even mafia. I may go read through a few more people, but for now, I'll vote for him.

Is that seriously the best you got? I mean seriously, it took you long enough to make up a case and then you make a case as weak as this and of course on who else but me right? Whimsical voting? I voted once for you based on someone's idea it's not like I put you at L-1 or lynched you. And what is a "valid" reason to you exactly? Liking bandwagons in the "scummy" sense? Yeah I guess joining bandwagons and sheeping is scummy but where did I make an attempt to hide those actions, I have told you why I have been doing them. Well kool, unless you haven't realised there is never enough evidence to prove someone is something unless you lynch them HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I AM

LEANING

, MEANING THAT IS MY READ AND MY THOUGHTS ON WHAT HE WILL FLIP IF HE WERE TO BE LYNCHED, BUT ALSO MEANING THAT I AM NOT AND CANNOT BE

SURE

BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW!
You guys seem awfully sure I'm scum...but do you KNOW that I'm scum...NO you just have some so-called "scum reads" on me which will prove themselves wrong when I flip town.
And what is it with your need to prove that you are not just bandwagoning. See now I think you are newbscum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: The Kool

[Kalofer]

By the way, my vote on Elfen was serious, but only on the condition that he would have been lynched, it was chronos ruffling my feathers not I his.

[Kalofer]

Espeonage looked like a man with a plan, I had no plan, he looks town to me, therefore I followed a townie who seemed to know what he was doing...problem?

Can you provide some evidence as to why you think Espeonage is town? Had you considered what following him could lead to if your (at the time) 6-page read was incorrect?

You say null tell I say town, that one thing he said during RVS is IMO not scummy enough for a vote and I don't think the "no mercy" line is out of proportions, look at what cloud said:

Cloud hadn't said it at the time. Also, even with three, four or even five players vocal about a lynch isn't an indication of unstoppable 'no mercy' in a game this size.

Elf's openness and (what looks like) honesty is making me lean newbtown.

Could you explain why you think scum would be unable to be 'open', so long as they don't give away their role?

just say the word and I will immediately change my vote

So now you're sure that both Espeonage and LordChronos (and Elfen too, I suppose) are town?

I'm not sure he's town, I'm leaning town on him and I was defending him but we'll never know what he is unless we lynch him. He could be scum for all I know and you could be right.

Why does this sentiment apply to Elfen and not Espeonage and LordChronos?

1) At the time everyone was either voting for elfen or trying to explain why elfen was scum, and a few weren't even in the game yet. Espeonage I saw as town, because he actually decided to go do something (townhunt with which I see nothing wrong) while everyone was too busy talking about elfen who I think is town. I didn't think it could lead to anything, it certainly couldn't have lead to a lynch that early and at best we would have gotten more info from reactions and taking our minds off of elfen.
2) Yes but he said it soon after and that only served to further illustrate my point. It may not be "no mercy" but it is intolerance and it got town bogged down in irrelevance, what was the point of having 5 votes on a person without it being decided whether he was going to be lynched or not? Waste of votes is what I'm trying to say I guess.
3) I don't think scum would give in to pressure after 2 votes during RVS and start telling us why they hate RVS.
4) There is no such thing as sure. I am null on chronos but he appears town.
5) This sentiment applies to everyone, who said it doesn't?

[Kalofer]

Also after re-reading the first few pages of the thread, I noticed your inconspicuous vote on Elfen, perfectly unexplained and then you're blaming me for liking bandwagons?

[CooLskins]

Now that defense is out of the way, I am finding Kal scummy right now. Since I suck at note-taking and presenting lists, I'll just try to name a few things I find scummy...

Mostly because of his whimsical voting for me back there for no reason whatsoever. The flimsy non-reason he gave wasn't even a valid one. Also his liking of bandwagons, in the scummy sense. Also his read on Elfen as newbtown, with no evidence to differentiate between that and clever mafia.

Also because I desire for there to be a lynch soon.

This is and isn't a bandwagon. I have indeed presented reasoning above, which makes it, at least, less scummy than Kal's bandwagoning. He has presented some redeeming logic, but anyone can be logical, even mafia. I may go read through a few more people, but for now, I'll vote for him.

We have sooo much time to make up our minds. Why should we lynch soon when we can wait a bit to make a better read? You aren't suggesting that we quick lynch day 1 are you? And why is lynching now better for the town then lynching later?

Right now I'm fully convinced that kool should be today's lynch. He also never seemed to defend (at least to my satisfaction) his sheeping and going with the flow.

In other news, I need to really arse my hydra partner to post more.

[PJ.]

On Kalofer and Kool: Their arguement feels like distancing to me. I would also like to admit to Chronos I read the situation wrong, and that improves my read of Chronos and definently makes me think a lot less highly of Kalofer.

Vote:Kool

P.S For some reason I prefer calling SleepyKrew, SkinnyKrew.

[Kalofer]

I'll distance him all the way to the lynch

[The Kool]

I'm going with the flow because trying to go against it makes my head hurt, calls me out as different, and makes everyone slam me with a barrage of questions, needing reasonings that I can't always put into words, and that makes my head hurt even more.

Wow. I thought I was ready for a small game here, no problem. Turns out everyone I've ever played with before is hopelessly newb compared to everyone here. You guys are downright

aggressive.

And I'm not in a good way as far as defending myself goes. I've had to defend myself a couple times in the past two weeks, and almost every time failed at it and been driven to a lynch. Everyone expects different reactions. It makes my head hurt trying to conform.

And I can anticipate your reaction. 'Conforming? Scum! Lynch him now.' Trust me, it ain't that simple. You have to conform to the expectations of the scumhunters or get lynched as scum, whatever your allegiance is. And in the past week, I've had to deal with four distinctly different expectations. My head hurts.

Still, no excuse not to at least try, right? IIOA, right? Or whatever that acronym was? Fine. I'll make a proper case on someone. I just historically fail at defending myself, whether I'm town or scum.

[Quinnster]

The Kool, that doesn't help. I'm on your side. I believe you are town. However, you can't duck under a tarp of newbiness. Do whatever you believe in, whether it's agreeing with someone else or forming your own case, as long as you can back it up when push comes to shove. If you can't, I can't stop them from throwing you under the bus. Will I get flak for this post? Likely. Will Espeonage and Kalofer say I'm scumbuddies with you? Probably. But you need to know. More from me later.

[Kalofer]

OMG QUINNSTER, you're definitely scum buddies with the kool, we got 2 of our scum people, (joke)
Me saying you're scum buddies with him is like you saying I'm scum buddies with elfen but I tried giving something of a reason as to why I believed elfen was town, what's your reason for thinking the kool is town?
sorry kool, but it's how the game is here. Try playing the game how you think it should be played not how you think people want you to play it and screw the consequences, as long as you're having fun. If your head hurts or you're too busy, take a break and postpone it, don't think you have to always be up to date with the thread and/or come up with huge original cases (I rarely re-read the thread being the lazy prick that I am and mostly post what comes to mind, unless I get really interested) so don't worry. But that's just my advice, feel free to completely ignore it.

[The Kool]

Yay, thank you, my head hurts less now.

As for the 'posting just to post', that is precisely what it is. It's saying 'I'm still here, no need to poke me, I just don't have anything new to contribute.' I post so I won't be considered absent.

And for now, off for the rest of the day. Time to give my brain a break, draw some stuff, and come back to tackle this with a fresh mind.

[SleepyKrew]

Kool is SCREAMING newbtown to me. Can votes go back on Kalofer now?

[Kalofer]

why wasn't elf SCREAMING newbtown to you?

[SleepyKrew]

Because he contradicted himself several times. Kool has agreed that he needs to do better.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Vote Count D-1 #6

(1) Elfen- cloudocean

(5) Kalofer- Supreme Overlord, SleepyKrew, Espeonage, LordChronos, The Kool

(4) The Kool- CooLskins, charter, Kalofer, Panzerjager

(1) Espeonage- Quinnster

(1) cloudocean- Elfen

(1) Not voting- WingDamage9001

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is June 3rd, Midnight Central.

... Finding replacement for

WingDamage9001

.

[Elfen]

umm The kool voted for Kal and my vote was on cloud ocean.

Fixed!

-Midnight

[Elfen]

Also, since Kalofer will have 6 votes against him,

UNVOTE

since we won't reach a majority unless some one else votes and blah....

[cloudocean]

> Not buying any of the newb-town cards being used.
> Don't really see the difference between Kool and Elfen, they're both being scummy.
> That being said, doesn't look like an Elfen lynch is going anywhere so -

unvote

vote: TheKool

> For the record Elfen, you're really hard to understand.

[SleepyKrew]

Guys, we can go for the newb next. Let's just get this guy already <.<

[Elfen]

@CO, I've been told many times...(blames it on speech impediment.. jk jk)

Well, shouldn't we wait for him to claim?? I mean since I can give the final vote. I guess I'll wait :/

[SleepyKrew]

He's L-2, not L-1. Go ahead and put him at L-1. If someone quickhammers before a claim,

THEN WE LYNCH THEM TOMORROW

.

[charter]

unvote, vote Sleepy

As much as I love the sudden rush of Kool votes (which I love very much), I think Sleepy is scummier. I was going to try and wait until tomorrow to go after him, but this recent post of his cracks the door open for Kool to be town. It really looks like Sleepy is hoping Kool will get lynched, and that someone stupid will do it, and set up two easy mislynches for him.

Plus, there's the terrible way he's reacting to this wagon. First, he has some inexplicable newbtown read on Kool, and no mention of why. Then there's how he tries to get votes back on Kalofer, but then one post later he basically throws in the towel and says 'go ahead and lynch Kool'. I don't like the sudden flipflop, it doesn't make sense if Sleepy is town and believes Kool to be town. It makes sense if Sleepy is scum and knows what Kool is.

[SleepyKrew]

Where does it say I hoped Kool got lynched? If so, why isn't my vote on Kool?
As for reasoning on newbtown... He's not being defensive. At all. He's accepting and admitting that he needs to try harder. Scum wouldve been defensive. Now, that kills your case on me, doesn't it?

[CooLskins]

Okay, we know that both Kool and Elfen are noobs. That's obvious. But there is a difference between noob-town and noob-scum. I made a topic about this in Mafia Discussion once, and the difference is

motive

. Both noob-town and noob-scum will act scummy, but noob-town want to help lynch scum while noob-scum don't care. Kool is noob-scum. Case in point:

I'm going with the flow because trying to go against it makes my head hurt, calls me out as different, and makes everyone slam me with a barrage of questions, needing reasonings that I can't always put into words, and that makes my head hurt even more.

Wow. I thought I was ready for a small game here, no problem. Turns out everyone I've ever played with before is hopelessly newb compared to everyone here. You guys are downright aggressive.

And I'm not in a good way as far as defending myself goes. I've had to defend myself a couple times in the past two weeks, and almost every time failed at it and been driven to a lynch.

Everyone expects different reactions.

It makes my head hurt trying to conform.

And I can anticipate your reaction. 'Conforming? Scum! Lynch him now.' Trust me, it ain't that simple. You have to conform to the expectations of the scumhunters or get lynched as scum, whatever your allegiance is. And in the past week, I've had to deal with four distinctly different expectations. My head hurts.

Still, no excuse not to at least try, right? IIOA, right? Or whatever that acronym was? Fine. I'll make a proper case on someone. I just historically fail at defending myself, whether I'm town or scum.

This post (especially the bolded parts) belay Kool's true motive: not to get caught. Throughout the game Kool has made no efforts to catch scum but he has made every effort to conform and follow the town's expectations. Because he's a noob he doesn't know what those expectations are, but he has tried to follow them.

As far as Kalc, he is scummy, but he's not the lynch for today. Whether or not he is the lynch for tomorrow will depend on Kool's flip.