New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[SubzeroSith]

Thor, sorry, but I (this is DY, so aim your ire at me, since it was my decision to claim) decided that only a partial mason claim would still run the risk of us being lynched as a plurality wagon because it wasn't confirmable, and lynching me would be bad, bad, bad. I actually went through several games to try to find instances of masons being forced to claim, and at least in the ones I looked at, they claimed truthfully. So I decided to do the same. I'm really sorry if I fucked that up.

@SZ - so who do you think was the scum pointedly avoiding you? There was at least one of those as well? I dig on KoC for voting Amor, but this is coming from the guy who was all buddy hugging Amor and attacking me for being scummy and leading lynches, and suddenly here he is riding my wagon of choice on his previous scumhunting partner in awesome, and not a whisper of comment about how here's Mr. Scummy Director screaming about this wagon he's suddenly joining. The fug?

It wouldn't surprise me to have a scum on Toon so as to be on the counter *cough*Amor*cough*.

I could definitely see Amor as being the scum avoiding my wagon. I need to re-read KoC myself, as I had some suspicions of him in the very early game but used one of his points in one of my more recent posts. For right now, I think Amor is more likely to be that scum.

Assuming a four-person scumteam, there actually may well be two scum off my wagon as well.

PEdit: Mastin, I claimed. Let's talk. I'm still waiting for answers to those questions I asked. We shouldn't lynch you today, obviously, but all this dodging from you is not what I am used to from TownYou.

[mastin2]

DK is nullish as he gets a pass for the moment on grounds of cluelessness (no offense, dude), but among the other three—Pine/Toon/Surye—I am dead certain you will find at least 1-2 scum.

You're correct, in that your wagon likely has 1-2 scum in it. But you're incorrect as to who. It's Deity and/or Surye; I'm pretty sure of that. Mainly because I have a town-read on Pine and Toon.

Speaking of which, with Thor AND Jmurph ALSO as confirmed town, this really helps me with my own analysis, which'll help me conclude how to play tomorrow. (Regrettably, it looks like I will not be nightkilled in this game, at all. Three masons is a solid three nights of nightkills. ) Help me analyze the situation better.

We get the flip today (if it's Toon, it'll be town, if it's Amor, it'll be scum), plus the info from all the confirmed town, and can use it all to find the scum.

I know, it doesn't look like that good of a situation, but trust me, this puts us at a far better advantage than you might think.

[Thor665]

I'm at a loss for words. BOTH Silver and SZS are Town? What nonsense is this? Obviously, unless Thor or Jmurph contradict the Mason claim, we're not lynching SZS.

Also, this completely explains the chainsaw defense of SZS given by Thor. I do not apologize for the accusation, as the chainsaw defense WAS employed, and in one of the few Town scenarios.

VOTE: Toon

My only remaining strong scumread, though I'm willing to hear a case on Amor (or read one that someone links me to). I admit that I have been tunnelling a bit and have ignored half the players in the thread.

PE: I think we've both got our wires crossed. I was thinking the same about you. Call it a draw for now and move on? If you can produce a full Amor case I'd be happy to read it.

1. Yes, both are town. Shocking and almost unbelievable considering how amazing the case on them was...
2. Please check your definition. Defending a town read (or a known confirmed) is not chainsaw unless you 'defend' them by simply attacking the attacker. I attacked the case. It was never a chainsaw defense.

Don't you also have a quote to provide me? Y'know, now that I'm confirmed town and you should be kow-towing a bit I'd at least love to see you provide the quote where I was misrepping you or whatever the heck it was you claimed I did. It will help my read of you. Please provide it.

Also, you said you would read up on Amor. How about you do that and give me your reads as promised?

And my wires weren't crossed - quote where I attacked you and than I'll admit my wires were crossed. Till than, not so much.

[mastin2]

Why? Maybe it's 1 AM speaking, but I don't recall you ever giving a good reason for your vocal opposition to Toon's lynch.

He's been a town-read since pretty much my entrance into the game? More or less, yeah, that.

[mastin2]

Mastin, I claimed. Let's talk.

Alright. Which ones were those, again? I might not be able to answer before deadline, but I will be able to answer Day 2. (Since there's no way the scum are letting three mutually-confirmed-town live the whole game. )

[Pine]

Yes, Mastin, you've said that for a while. But WHY is Toon a Town read?

Thor, it's 1:20 AM. I'm barely coherent enough to respond to new stuff, certainly not sifting through 20 pages of material.

[MrZepher]

Nothing about Thor's case? Yeah, I'm happy with my vote.

It wasn't a case, it was one line without even a vote. I didn't think it was really worth a response. Maxous and I had similar observations, so what?

Anyway, we seem to be out of RVS so it's time for a real vote.

Unvote
Vote Knight of Cydonia

Mostly gut, but I don't like his lack of opinions or trying to pass off reading the thread as gathering information.

First off, this was a weak vote. Later your unvote would be weak as well. No good.

His post #6 isn't very good either. It wasn't necessary to point out Thor's post, you know, since you had previously pointed out how scummy Pine looked for going after and obviously jokey line Thor had written previously.

Also, I don't think Thor was coaching with the line I mentioned, but rather using town-cred to entice people onto certain wagons. Thor is basically promising the less active players a free pass if they vote how he wants them to. Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them town, and it seems stupid to leave a huge chunk of players free from investigation. I'm not sure whether this is just bossy town play or active scum manipulation.

WHAT UP EXAGGERATION. I SEE YOU!

Thor -- I just don't think it's a good idea to intentionally ignore the half of the player base who are below the radar right now, or tell people how to escape your suspicion. But your response gives me town vibes, so I think this is just an argument about tactics.

THIS is bad. I find it unreasonable to find somebody scummy for not going after EVERY player.
You know, since you post this right after:

@mastin2: you seem to be trying to slip under the radar easily. Also, your 3 psots so far are bs. No content, a crappy vote with no reasoning, and you want DK to make a big post, but you don't do any.

unvote, vote: mastin

I want more content out of you, fast

"Hey guys, pay me no mind, let's go after the guy who replaced in yesterday for lack of content."

No one seems to agree with me about Knight so...

Unvote
Vote: Toon Fighter

ALSO, this was a bad unvote. Wtf. "I'm not going to make KoC work, so I mind as well go after somebody that already has a wagon."

Sigh, we need a better wagon to get today going. I like Amor much better. Vote: Amor Attacks scumhunting because of weak language, when we only currently have weak information in this slow game.

I assume you're referring to my point against Maxous. Posting a list of waffly, easily retractable reads isn't scumhunting, it's filler, and that's not going to make the game any better.

Cut a little at the end that didn't have to do with the post.
Sure it does. It gets people conversing about your reads. READS CHANGE. DUH. IT'S NOT SCUMMY TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.
Discussion is good for the town.

Post #11 Is fluff basically. There's nothing of relevance in that post. it just looks like content.

Okay, looks like Toon is the best lynch that realistically could happen today.

Unvote
Vote:ToonFighter

Most notable, out of ALL your votes, those made with adequate reasoning and obvious town intent are
ZERO
and counting.

Yeah. You need to be lynched. Sorry. Even if all the rest of my argument is weak, the fact that you STILL have yet to post a vote with even an inkling of town intent SCREAMS scum to me, and I think we gain more from your lynch. Your interaction with DK looks like scum leaving potential for bussing later.

[Thor665]

@SZ - it's not a Smurf up, just you possibly could have handled a claim without a full mason team reveal. You could have gone with "I'm a verifiable town PR, if I'm alive tomorrow I'll verify" or even "I'm a mason, I have buddies that can verify but don't want to reveal them" though the latter probably would have at least plopped me into the obvious slot quicker than anything. I'm not even sure if it's truly optimal, I just like not telling scum jack because I know when I'm scum I hate not knowing stuff about the setup. Screw those guys, we don't want them to know anything they don't need to.

So you agree on Amor likely scum, but you're hanging onto Toon. I guess I can see that with being unsure of Mastintown. I can feel that a bit, but seriously. If Mastin is scum he just pretty much played the worst scum play ever because there is no way he's getting to lylo now. So let's not sweat that so much. His reads are a little shaky, but that's because he insists on Day 1 VCA, so they'll always be.

@Mastin - can you justify the Pine town read. His hyper pop to my my SZ defense felt like scum saying 'Get the frell away from this wonderfully planned mislynch' and his defensiveness and assuredness that I'd been attacking him reads as scum with guilty conscience. I'd love to be able to clear him as it would help narrow my own reads - so please spill on that town read. Besides, you need to start acting more uber town right now to try and help draw NKs, you are confirmed Daycop, right?

Does anyone else have a read on Zephyr? I've got him down as slight town at the moment but the timing of his 'lol, wasn't gonna vote SZ but will vote Amor and...holy cats, a Mason claim!?! Bwuh?" post just leaves a stingy taste in my mouth.

[silverbullet999]

hmmm lots posted... ok lets get to reading

alright mastin claims day cop and clears me (i actually didn't know day cop was a role til just now)

sub looks like he'll be the lynch...
sub's mason... god damn it how is this possible... ? i blame your attitude... ugh alright

lynch on amor? ehhh I'd prefer nham... I don't see scum motivation in saying guys don't worry there's pularity lynches... then again I guess that in essence could be the motivation... I'll still prefer nham and the vote on him doesn't hurt any.

[mastin2]

But WHY is Toon a Town read?

Asking me to explain my town-reads doesn't end very well.
He just is one. I have trouble explaining it, but from the moment I saw Toon, I thought Town. Scummy, but town.

Kinda like you, I suppose. Was initially suspicious of you, but later thought things over and concluded this was the town-you. (This also addresses Thor, sort-of.)

Put bluntly--
I CAN

explain

my town-reads on Pine and Toon, but not within the alloted time. It'd have to wait 'til Day 2, since I can't write out the reasons why briefly. There's no way to do it without a long wall, essentially, something which takes too much time for me to finish today.

To answer Thor about Zepher:
Right now, my suspects are Amor, One of (possibly both) {Deity, Surye}, and POSSIBLY Zepher. But I need to review the game during the night. That's the perfect chance for me to make sense of this mess.

Put simply, I think the town got off on the wrong foot, but that we can turn this around into a guaranteed victory. Let's hope I don't slack off.

[silverbullet999]

^forgot to add i'd like pine also^

-ninja
mastin not to um... remind of us things... but remember last time you had unconfirmed town reads on someone...

[MrZepher]

Does anyone else have a read on Zephyr? I've got him down as slight town at the moment but the timing of his 'lol, wasn't gonna vote SZ but will vote Amor and...holy cats, a Mason claim!?! Bwuh?" post just leaves a stingy taste in my mouth.

I was working on a post and then i left to do errands. When I preview'd my post when I got back home the mason claim showed up, so I just copied the front end into a new post and put that up as soon as I could.
Can't really help that it happened. I thought I had posted before I left this morning about an upcoming case on somebody.

But from what I can see is that I'm either neutral leaning town or I'm neutral leaning scum.
Unless you're nhammen then I'm just scum.

[mastin2]

So, brief rundown of reads for all (theoretically) possible lynches today:

4. Wraith <--Possible suspect, but very weak. Overall has been a slight town-read, but that was when all the confirmed town were still suspects.
5. Amor <--I'm around 75% sure Amor's scum, right now.
6. nhammen <--Ditto.
7. DeityKabuto <--Slight scum-lean before, bit stronger now.
8. Pine <--Town-read.
9. MrZepher <--Slight scum-lean.
10. Surye <--Same as Deity.
11. Nobody Special <--Weak town-read. Still holds. If Amor flips town, I'll be thinking NS is possible scum, but my opinion is that most likely, town.
13. Uite <--Ditto. Was a slight town-read.
15. Toon Fighter <--Town-read.
16. Maxous <--Old town-read. Still holds, I guess.
17. Knight of Cydonia <--Ditto. Has gone back and forth a lot today. I've overall been leaning town, though.

[mastin2]

Reduced (as in, eliminating my town-reads), that's

4. Wraith <--Current Super-Weak-Suspect.
5. Amor <--Scum.
6. nhammen <--Neutral.
7. DeityKabuto <--Scum?
9. MrZepher <--Scum-lean.
10. Surye <--Scum?
17. Knight of Cydonia <--Neutral. (Small town-lean.)

Seven names. Four of which'd be scum.

I'm thinking there's something wrong with my scum list. So many of these names are far too weak of scumreads. Amor's the only strong scum-read I have, right now. And he better flip scum, because if he doesn't, literally nothing makes sense anymore.

[Pine]

Fuck it. I'm willing to trust Mastin on this. Not counting confirmed Town roles, he only has two strong town reads, and one of them (me) I know to be correct. That confidence on Toon has shaken mine, so I'm banking on Mastin being pretty on-target this game.

UNVOTE: Toon
VOTE: Amor

[mastin2]

Actually, they're not strong town reads.
They're town-reads, which happen to have persevered throughout all of the things which should've weakened 'em to be neutral/scumreads. So they're stronger than any other town-reads, I suppose you could say.

(But yeah. It's more of a technicality than anything else. If I considered them strong town-reads, I'd list them as "Town." rather than "Town-read." Small subtle difference, which in the long-run doesn't make much of a difference, but still something which I feel is best to have clarified.)

[Nobody Special]

Hi.

So, life exploded at the end of last week, and I've not been around much. (You can check my site activity, if you don't believe me; I've been modding my games and making a few non-posts in non-game threads.)

I'm currently reading (on page 15 now); I'm currently leaning Sith over Toon, but that may change.

If I've missed any questions, just ask.

Oh, and my Mastin vote. It was a preliminary pressure vote because he wasn't posting enough (not frequency; think wordcount).

unvote

I'm very aware of the deadline. I'll be on late tonight and most all day tomorrow.

[Toon Fighter]

unvote, vote: Amor

How is the votecount right now? We have so far 5 claims

[quadz08]

The Say Whaaa? Votecount

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

jmurph3 (0) –
silverbullet999 (0) –
mastin2 (0) –
Wraith (0) -
Amor (6) –Thor665, Knight of Cydonia, MrZepher, mastin2, Pine, Toon Fighter
nhammen (1) – silverbullet999
DeityKabuto (2) – Uite, nhammen
Pine (0) –
MrZepher (0) -
Surye (0) -
Nobody Special (0) -
Thor665 (0) –
Uite (0) -
SubzeroSith (2) – Surye, DeityKabuto
Toon Fighter (4) – Maxous, SubzeroSith, Amor, jmurph3
Maxous (0) –
Knight of Cydonia (0) –

Not Voting (2) – Wraith, Nobody Special

Deadline is in approximately 11.5 hours, at May 18th at 4:00 PM Pacific Time.

Just as a reminder, in the Voting/Lynching section of the rules:

7)

If there is no majority at deadline, the player with the highest number of votes will be lynched. Anyone not voting will be counted as voting for no-lynch. If two or more players are tied for the most votes, the player who has been at that number of votes for the longest amount of time will be lynched.

[Pine]

Alrighty then. After being near-stagnant for weeks, we're finally moving along at a good pace.

Amor, if you wanted a chance to claim, now's the time.

[Amor]

Man, it would be nice to not have a wagon on me Day 1 for once.

@MrZepher: Of the three people I've voted seriously I've given ample reasons for why I think they're scummy throughout my posts. Sometimes it wasn't there in the actual votes but was established earlier i.e. through the move back onto Toon Fighter. Looking only at the vote posts and not the ones around them is either lazy or deceitful. Also, if that trips your scumwires so bad, look at Toon Fighter:

Random vote is random. Why are you arguing so much about a simple vote in the RVS stage? Why don't we discuss something more productive?
UNVOTE: VOTE: SubzeroSith

@mastin2: you seem to be trying to slip under the radar easily. Also, your 3 psots so far are bs. No content, a crappy vote with no reasoning, and you want DK to make a big post, but you don't do any. unvote, vote: mastin I want more content out of you, fast

(This was like a day after mastin had replaced in.)

UNVOTE: VOTE: Subsith

Don't have much time now. I like the case on subzero, and I had suspected him before. Also, I believe my vote is more useful there than where it is now. When I have more time (probably tomorrow, but can't promise anything) I'll make a bigger post.

(No bigger post was forthcoming.)

unvote, vote: silverbullet

(This was the entire post.)

just read mastins post, unvote, vote: subzerosith

unvote, vote: Amor

How is the votecount right now? We have so far 5 claims

There isn't much in Toon's other posts to justify these votes either. All in all Toon's voting history has been opportunistic as all hell, starting off with an OMGUS then a vote on a recent replacement for lack of content then jumping onto every bandwagon he can and riding it until he gets a claim out of it (the last post I quoted shows how focused he is on claims.) I'm kind of flabbergasted that I'm getting voted for making votes without content and VCA*-related reasons when this guy is the other leading lynch candidate.

*You would think mastin would rethink his methods after his first two for-sure scum candidates got confirmed town, but nope, just onto the next name on the list.

@Thor: In the post you described as "egging on a townie fight" I said mastin seemed logical because I thought he was town despite disagreeing with him. I should have been clearer. It's pretty weak, IMO, and even you seem to realize it with the qualifiers you keep putting around this point. And how does my repeated suggestions that both Silver and SZS were town (as you also thought, and turned out to be the case) fit into this theory of yours?

Anyway I've tried to address all the points against me but a lot of votes just seem to assert I'm scum without providing any reasoning. Pine's last vote is especially terrible, basically pulling a DK-like move of "Well I'm not sure but I'll trust you", except with mastin as opposed to the town in general. In my mind this is trying to avoid blame for the resulting mislynch, and raises my suspicions of Pine quite a bit.

I'd like to see the people that aren't on either Toon or I take a side, as it doesn't look like any other lynches are going to happen today. I'll wait to claim until these people chime in, as I'd really like to avoid doing so unneccesarily.

[Toon Fighter]

I read the thread the day after, but I had nothing to say. Also, my vote would be nearly useless at the end of the day if it wasn't in one of the main wagons (silver, SZS, and now you). Since we're right at the deadline, I want a lynch, and I trust the people who have been leading the game so far - mastin, for example. When I voted him, I hadn't noticed he had just replaced in, and when he showed himself reliable and participating in the game, I took my vote off him. Also, he believes with his heart I'm town, and I do too, so in that we agree aswell. I know I haven't been much active in D1, but that will change D2.

[Toon Fighter]

If you let me live, of course

[Toon Fighter]

Man, it would be nice to not have a wagon on me Day 1 for once.

I say the same thing. Every game I'm in, I get bandwagonned D1 -.-

[Thor665]

@Amor and Toon - if you don't want a wagon on you Day 1 you need to adjust your playstyles. There's a reason you're being wagoned, and it's not random chance - it's because you play scummy.

@Thor: In the post you described as "egging on a townie fight" I said mastin seemed logical because I thought he was town despite disagreeing with him. I should have been clearer. It's pretty weak, IMO, and even you seem to realize it with the qualifiers you keep putting around this point. And how does my repeated suggestions that both Silver and SZS were town (as you also thought, and turned out to be the case) fit into this theory of yours?

Hmmm, I can see that angle in the post.
I don't think I put any qualifiers, other than opinion based ones.
If you're scum than you were slapping at it weakly for later town cred post flips.

You almost might have sold me, except for the old maxim about how long it takes to paraphrase a role PM.
I'm still down with a Toon Fighter lynch.