Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[SnakePlissken]

I'm

V/LA for e weekend

[Soben]

is chesskid town too?

Not getting the 'obvtown' read I normally get from you, though certaintly not getting a scumread either. I'm interested in hearing GI's thoughts he knows your meta far better than I do.

PEDIT: IceyCupcake, I'm more than willing to listen to your opinions I just have no intent on voting you unless I see reasonable evidence that proves that it's worth doing so.

[SGRaaize]

Alright, now that a big part of the pressure on me is out, I feel like I can breath again.
Gonna sleep now, tomorrow, I'l reread and try to actually get some reads not related to votes on me.

[Pine]

More votes on Soben, please.

Will address the SGR clusterfuck later, just got home.

[IceyCupcake]

is chesskid town too?

PEDIT: IceyCupcake, I'm more than willing to listen to your opinions I just have no intent on voting you unless I see reasonable evidence that proves that it's worth doing so.

Stop fishing. : )

If you think we're town, then vote us. Simple as that.

[IceyCupcake]

is chesskid town too?

Not getting the 'obvtown' read I normally get from you, though certaintly not getting a scumread either. I'm interested in hearing GI's thoughts he knows your meta far better than I do.

PEDIT: IceyCupcake, I'm more than willing to listen to your opinions I just have no intent on voting you unless I see reasonable evidence that proves that it's worth doing so.

Chesskid shouldn't have been on Raize wagon, and jumped off and immediately said exactly what I said - obv day 1 mislynch - when I pushed him. Don't like.

Tempted to vote Soben for blatant fishing, among other sins.

[Soben]

More votes on Soben, please.

What in particular about my refusal to vote IceyCupcake do you find scummy? What scum-motivation is there behind directly disobeying someone openely claiming a request for votes?

Stop fishing. : )
If you think we're town, then vote us. Simple as that.

1) Fishing would imply attempting to attain information regarding your role, I know perfectly well GI wouldn't reveal such information thus there would be no reasoning or motive behind fishing.

2) You know full well it's "Not as simple as that", I've already explained I don't believe it to be optimal to vote you.

[IceyCupcake]

Your reasoning of it not being optimal is based around the belief that we may not be town.

Which, in that case, leads us back to the original of point of, why are you going to call us town if you're not willing to act as such?

[Pine]

More votes on Soben, please.

What in particular about my refusal to vote IceyCupcake do you find scummy? What scum-motivation is there behind directly disobeying someone openely claiming a request for votes?

No one suggested that your (wise) decision not to vote Icey had anything to do with the above quote.

[Soben]

Your reasoning of it not being optimal is based around the belief that we may not be town.

Which, in that case, leads us back to the original of point of, why are you going to call us town if you're not willing to act as such?

I call play that I believe has no scum-motivation whatsoever "Town-tells" which I generally associate with town, at the same time given the setup style I can see possibilties of you being third party/alternate faction with the risks of voting you being severe.

No one suggested that your (wise) decision not to vote Icey had anything to do with the above quote.

Elaborate.

[gandalf5166]

If he wins by getting votes, then how does that wincon interfere with town's? He'd just win and leave the game.

[Soben]

If he wins by getting votes, then how does that wincon interfere with town's? He'd just win and leave the game.

2. The fact that their win condition doesn't preclude town from a win doesn't change anything, them recieveing their win condition could still have a drastic effect on the game.

The fact I'm having to continously explain such a basic concept is becoming frustrating to say the least.

Other hydra-head is currently reading through the thread and we're likely to have a proper discussion about reads later today, heading to uni for now.

[Pine]

Or win and END the game. Of course they'd suggest that their wincon doesn't interfere with Town.

Elaborate on what? You assigned a meaning to a quote that was never even remotely intended. I corrected you. Stop taking me out of context and pretending that I'm obfuscating my intentions.

[Soben]

Elaborate on what? You assigned a meaning to a quote that was never even remotely intended. I corrected you. Stop taking me out of context and pretending that I'm obfuscating my intentions.

You're severely mistaken however if I need to rephrase it I will do so. You ask for more votes on me, then state it has nothing to do with refusing to vote for IceyCupcake, thus the 'elaborate' is for you to explain what reasoning it is for.

[gandalf5166]

How would it have a drastic effect on the game? They would leave. We would GET RID of an anti town role with no negative effects. Plus if they have any teammates, they leave too. HOW IS THAT A BAD THING

And @Pine: You're misunderstanding my point(and maybe the rules). Their wincon involves receiving votes. How does that interfere with town's?

[Pine]

Elaborate on what? You assigned a meaning to a quote that was never even remotely intended. I corrected you. Stop taking me out of context and pretending that I'm obfuscating my intentions.

You're severely mistaken however if I need to rephrase it I will do so. You ask for more votes on me, then state it has nothing to do with refusing to vote for IceyCupcake, thus the 'elaborate' is for you to explain what reasoning it is for.

It. Didn't.

I've already stated my reasoning on you, and was simply reminding people that you shouldn't be left off the hook.

@Gandalf: Stop being a moron and taking someone with a different wincon at their word.

[gandalf5166]

If his wincon doesn't involve receiving votes, then why is he asking for votes?

[chesskid3]

I've explained exactly why I was on the SGR wagon.

[Pine]

If his wincon doesn't involve receiving votes, then why is he asking for votes?

Why are you not reading my posts?

I'm suggesting we don't help him because they may be lying about the assertion that the game will continue if the vote goal is achieved.

For example, a Jester's goal is to get lynched. The game ends when they win. If they told you "No, it's okay! Lynch me, I win, game goes on!" you would, apparently, believe that.

[gandalf5166]

The rules EXPLICITLY state that unless a factions wincon DIRECTLY interferes with another's, the game will continue. So unless you can think of a way that IC receiving a certain number of votes interferes with another faction, shut up. We're taking the MOD'S word, not IC's.

[Pine]

Oh FFS. And if the goal of gathering votes is to set off a massive spell that kills everyone else? What then?

God WHY would you help someone who refuses to clarify their intentions, is obv-non-Town, and uses more WIFOM than a truckload of suicide WIFOM bombers.

[gandalf5166]

Oh FFS. And if the goal of gathering votes is to set off a massive spell that kills everyone else? What then?

You seriously think that would happen? The mod would put an ability in that powerful? Hell, even the concept of an ability powered by votes is pretty ridiculous, even for an S_B game.

[Pine]

I don't care. It's unknown, non-Town, and if it's that conditional, presumably powerful. I don't care to risk a Town victory on it.

[gandalf5166]

I don't care. It's unknown, non-Town, and if it's that conditional, presumably powerful. I don't care to risk a Town victory on it.

You think that S_B would have her entire game hinge around how many votes a particular player got? No. They're a MINOR role if their abilities are that conditional. At MOST, they're an SK that gets a minor ability increase if they get a certain number of votes during the day.

[IceyCupcake]

Okay, simple fact: We're not revealing our reasons at this time, and we'd like the general speculation to stop, thank you very much. There are good reasons, and they're pro-town.

Pine's speculation is starting to irritate me. Remember your bout of SK hunting? This is starting to feel like 3rd party hunting. I retract my town read on Pine, effective immediately.

FOS: Gandalf, Pine, Soben.