Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[IceyCupcake]

ICE, btw.

[Pine]

Not arguing with you about this anymore, Gandalf. They don't share the Town wincon, so I refuse to help them towards whatever goal they have. I intend to see whatever threat they may pose expunged through the damage mechanic or an outright vig kill.

This isn't third party hunting, GI. This is you declaring an extraordinarily suspicious statement right off the bat, telling people your role is jester-like, and thereafter giving only very suspect or very obvious reads.

[gandalf5166]

Hell, we don't even KNOW that he's third party.

[IceyCupcake]

Not arguing with you about this anymore, Gandalf. They don't share the Town wincon, so I refuse to help them towards whatever goal they have. I intend to see whatever threat they may pose expunged through the damage mechanic or an outright vig kill.

This isn't third party hunting, GI. This is you declaring an extraordinarily suspicious statement right off the bat, telling people your role is jester-like, and thereafter giving only very suspect or very obvious reads.

Elucidate. Which reads do you feel are suspect? Which are obvious?

[chesskid3]

jjust shut up and vote pine gosh

[Pine]

We are jester-like.

Please always vote us before voting someone else, thanks.

p-edit: CHESS GET YOUR VOTE ON US THANKS. YOU TOO GANDALF.

Page One, FYI. Size of most important bit enlarged.

PE: The flip-flopping you've done on me (Scum, Town, Null-Town, Scum) is suspect. FOS on Gandalf, who is coming off more and more as misguided (and duped) Town is suspect. FOS on Soben is super-obv.

Chesskid, what's your deal? I know you're fishing for reactions, but if you're actually serious, posting a case usually helps.

[IceyCupcake]

We are jester-like.

Please always vote us before voting someone else, thanks.

p-edit: CHESS GET YOUR VOTE ON US THANKS. YOU TOO GANDALF.

Page One, FYI. Size of most important bit enlarged.

PE: The flip-flopping you've done on me (Scum, Town, Null-Town, Scum) is suspect. FOS on Gandalf, who is coming off more and more as misguided (and duped) Town is suspect. FOS on Soben is super-obv.

Chesskid, what's your deal? I know you're fishing for reactions, but if you're actually serious, posting a case usually helps.

First, Kats is fairly convinced you're scum, whereas I used to believe you're town until you ceased hunting for scum and decided to go hunt for third parties. Regardless, you already know from other games that I alone flip my opinions back and forth pretty frequently. So that reasoning is HYPER weak.

Soben thing is tacked on. We've had reads on SGR, Chesskid, Gandalf, LMP, ABR... did you just say something that you thought sounded good and now have to justify it?

You did, didn't you! You thought it sounded good and backed your point up so you just wrote it! It's not even close to true, but you didn't even bother to check!

I'm leaving this to Katsuki: Kats, if you don't disagree in 24 hours, our vote is on this joker.

[gandalf5166]

@Pine: Jester-like meaning they need votes. They didn't claim anti-town.

[IceyCupcake]

UNVOTE, VOTE: PINE

[Amrun]

Pine, your early and your most recent posts are attrocious, but more importantly, you flip the fuck out any time anyone even suspects you a little bit, and it doesn't come off as town to me. You also didn't quote all the reasons I gave for suspecting you, as bare as they were, but you still misrepresented me in an attempt to discredit me.

And I think SGR has a point without even knowing it. You're far too serious. I've never seen you play so srs business, ever, and the change in playstyle is bothering my gut.

With your recent posts,especially the blatant 3rd party hunting, your body of work becomes scummier than implosion's.

Unvote; Vote: Pine

Beefster, want to explain how the logic of my one post is circular, and then how that makes you so sure I'm scum?

[Pine]

Christ I'm so frustrated by this game. Icey, your play is so anti-Town it isn't even funny. Frankly, I don't give two shits if you're scum or third party, you

claimed a role that is traditionally anti-Town Third Party

. Also, hunting third party? This is hardly all I've been doing. I've given opinions on ABR, SGR, Soben, and now you. Until I started pushing hard against you, I was Town or null at worst. Now that I'm pointing out the

giant, massive holes in your claim

you suddenly backpedal and switch to a scum read on me.

So go ahead and vote me. I honestly don't give a flying rat's ass. I'm expendable Town, and if my contribution to this game is shaking up Day One and catching even one anti-Town player, I've done more than my duty.

PE: Amrun, I flip out whenever people have shitty reasons for voting for me because I'm actually doing my best as Town, and it

pisses me off

when attention is distracted from actual scum and time is wasted suspecting me.

[Pine]

Removing this game from my bookmarks at least until morning, probably later. I don't think I can reply rationally to you people right now.

[chesskid3]

Unvote

Vote: Amrun

[Soben]

Hi, this is the other half of the hydra here, aka, the non Regfan one. I wanted to state my reads. I haven't had a chance to discuss these with Regfan but most of my comments will be on players other than the ones he has mentioned. Didn't even plan it that way but this is what I gathered from a quick read.

1. I think the blatant powering up of Icey's ability is so bad by anyone who is willing to unvote him/vote him. Particularly since from the very beginning of the game he came right out and said hey power up my ability please. I'm not going to tell you what I'm doing, but I'm not town-sided at all. In the best case scenario for you town, Im 3rd party! Go ahead and vote away. Now what possible motivation would a town-player for doing what he says? None. And it is because of that that my strongest town read is Pine.

I thought Gandalf was likely town and although I had a slight scum read on SGR early on but hus recent attention whoring has made me reconsider if he really cares about his life or minds pressure on him. Null on SGR for now.

I have a slight town read on Wrathchild but don't remember why off the top of my head and thought implosion was town. He is probably just trying to figure out who the hydra is made up of by voting us

I have a slight scum read on Albert for essentially throwing us all a bone with a couple quick reads while blatantly role fishing as town Pine pointed out. And I know it goes against what I'm saying, but no, I don't think every character has a damaging ability and I think we shouldn't answer that question or address it again.

My strongest scum read so far was on LynchMePls. Mostly he has seemed situationally like he has been trying to seize the opportunity to make people look bad without actually investigating his suspicious. Also a scum tell of mine personally is explaining the game mechanics as a defense mechanism to take attention off myself for my actions. I see him doing that in a post. I'm really bad with quotes and formatting stuff so bear with me and it should be pretty obvious whether its me or Regfan posting.

Here are Regfan's reads for reference:
Town: ABR, IceyCupcake, BunnyLover, CMAR, inHimshallibe.
Scum: Riceballtail, Katy, Implosion.

I will be asking him to explain his reads to me offline but this half of the hydra will be pushing for a LynchMePls vote/lynch.

[Amrun]

You flipped out even in RVS, stating someone was "ripping your face off" when no such thing was happening. On phone, sorry for lack of specifics.

And Pine, seriously, mod flat-out says that a potential 3rd party wincon won't end the game. You're reaching.

[Soben]

Such grammar and spelling fail my god. And to think I used to edit my high school's newspaper. Look how dumb 4 years of college and too much booze has made me.

[gandalf5166]

Okay, he honestly just stops posting under pressure? I think I might have had a townread on him before, but this is ridiculous.

[gandalf5166]

Oops, forgot:

Unvote
VOTE: Icey
Unvote
VOTE: Pine

[Feysal]

Okay, this looks like another game that is conspiring to never let me catch up. Rather than stay up all night to read, I'll just stop on page 10 for tonight and continue on tomorrow.

I believe I've had my best idea ever in a mafia game today. I realized I'd be in severe trouble keeping track of what was happening, so I created a private QuickTopic to post my thoughts in for future reference. The downside is that taking notes slows down my reading, but I'll take being informed and slow over being quick and forgetful any day of the week. Most of my notes so far are various town reads, and some suspicions are starting to arise. inHim is pretty high on my suspect list at the moment, since I don't follow the reasoning behind his suspicions. Pine has also been quite aggressive against who I feel are the wrong people. Not going to vote either now though, they may have answered for some of my concerns in the pages I've yet to read, and if not, I'll be asking some questions.

I'm keeping an eye on LMP, which should surprise no one, at least if you read the little exchange between us during signups. I wouldn't be doing my job right if I wasn't. Based on my experience of his play, he is aggressive as town, and even more aggressive as scum.

I think Chesskid pointed out the flaw, the person will just be 'protected or healed' as scum.

And if someone is protected by the scum after the town has decided to kill them off, we have an excellent lynch choice for the following day.

I think we should set up a firing squad, and use it as a group vigilante. I've done this before, and the first time we put the idea to practice we actually managed to shoot scum. I'm sure LMP remembers this one, he hosted the game. On the other hand, I've been in a game where the town was ruined by everyone running around shooting at each other, allowing the scum to lurk their way to victory. I'd prefer we agreed as a group who to kill. Perhaps several targets like Amrun suggested, which would make it harder for scum to protect their own - though that could result in too many targets dying too quickly. The longer the game lasts, the more informed we can make our kill choices, so we don't want to kill three people on day one for something only vaguely scummy. That way I predict we're going to do more damage than good.

I've seen comments that suggest some people have missed that abilities can be used night and day. Only one ability per phase though. We should make the most of this.

Of course we don't need to out whoever has damaging abilities, we can decide on targets to kill without that. I considered a select group of people claiming that they were participating in the firing squad, and then treat any loose cannons as scum, but I don't see it working. Probably better to keep it secret if you participate in the firing squad.

Feysal: Please say something interesting.

I don't know what you would find interesting, so I will keep speaking of what interests me, and hope it satisfies.

[chesskid3]

scum will save that person every night regardless dudeeeeeeee

[Amrun]

How do you know they even have the power to do that?

And what about the multiple people idea that basically negates that complaint?

[Pine]

Okay, he honestly just stops posting under pressure? I think I might have had a townread on him before, but this is ridiculous.

I stopped posting and removed the bookmark in order to prevent me from breaking my laptop during the paroxysms of anger and frustration I was beginning to experience when reading this thread. Apparently removing it from my bookmarks wasn't enough, as I manually sought it out.

As you can see, I've calmed down significantly since the eruption of idiocy that happened in this thread a few hours ago. Still, I'm going to set this aside (for real now) until morning at the least.

@Soben's other head: That was a very solid post. Setting aside the buddying up to me, you made some excellent points and clearly put some thought into it. That doesn't quite make up for the way your partner hit my scumdar with a sledgehammer, but it does give me pause enough to allow you the chance to redeem yourself. I've been in a hydra where the two heads had problems.

UNVOTE: Soben
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

Why ABR? There were a couple of early posts that struck me as very off. Soben2 (as I shall be referring to the non-Regfan half) referenced a point I made early on about ABR's rolefishing. It seems that suspicion of ABR was never allayed, but he managed to fade into the woodwork and avoid notice until now. It's time we hear more from him.

[IceyCupcake]

@Feysal: Lemme summarize the content of your posts that is not setup speculation, fluff, or nonsense:

- CMAR is town because of the ASOS "am I scum?" thing
- You're keeping an eye on LMP because meta

That's it. That's everything you've said.

So yeah. I'm working on developing a desire for your head. Keep posting like this, and it'll morph into a full blown bloodlust.

-ICE

[Baby Spice]

I'll be taking this piecemeal, kinda.

Icey.
I assume it was Kat who made the first post.
Regardless, I have trouble thinking of a town role except JOAT (Mick Foley in Lockes wrestling game), but I can think of a few third party type things. Yes, I think the third party type is more likely. Whatever, given what has been said about wincons I'm thinking townish third party (If the concept makes sense, kinda like the clerics in the previous game) I wont be voting you though, unless you get scummy. Kat is on my personal shit list.


Pine:

I'm thinking Icey has some kind of ability that can only function against people who have voted for them, or something like that.

Vig please.

reasonable assumption.

PE: Icey probably isn't a Wizard with a bunch of powers. They're probably either a weakly-powered, high HP goon supporting the Wizards or a Third Party with unusual goals. Hell, this is Theme Park, they might actually be some form of Jester, counting on our default "lolnojesters" reaction.

Ok, expanding the Icey theory into something that appears slightly more scummy.

I refuse to vote for Icey at this time, on caution that he may have an ability (or even wincon) that triggers if everyone votes for him in one day without lynch, or something crazy like that.

Ok, now expanded again to something alarmist.

Pine's case presentation here is kind of like the fortuneteller who keeps slipping the reading wider until it something clicks. Reasonable, to slightly scummy, to "My god it could cost us the game"

I don't think there's been any new informatuion about Icey's claim, except icey refusing to expand on it and claiming it's pro-town.

Actually, Pine is starting to sound like I did at the end of Stars Aligned when pushing Benmage.

Vote Pine

CMAR:
Not a scum slip imo. Looking town.

SGR:
Wine arguements, self-meta arguements.
I got no idea what to make of him yet.

ABR:
You want to run town controlled Vigging?

I believe I've had my best idea ever in a mafia game today. I realized I'd be in severe trouble keeping track of what was happening, so I created a private QuickTopic to post my thoughts in for future reference. [/b]
Also helps if you jump from computer to computer, or post from a mobile device on occasion. Or with "I told you so's"

More later. Feeding tme at the zoo.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well BS, when you put it that way...

Unvote, vote Pine

I was going to do this even before he voted me. Now I can add OMGUS to my good reasons.