Mini 1166: Town Hall Mafia (GAME OVER)

[ThAdmiral]

@ sab: nice statistics. Are you just going to leave it at that or are you going to do analysis?

Well scum like to bandwagon, and that's what you've done so far in this game. I would imagine that the other scum player is probably trying to do the exact opposite of what you're doing to remain under the radar. Like I said before, the majority of bandwagons you were on also included iam, which makes me consider you two are scum. However, I feel that the best vote is you because of the reasons I already said.

So I had a look through your data...

1. You included my rvs vote as a bandwagon vote.
2. You included my vote on c-worl as a bandwagon vote even though it was only the second vote on him, and would have been the first if I had gotten on a few hours earlier.

Seriously?

That's pretty bad analysis.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

You see, not only did I say I considered him was a newb, I also said he was over eager. And that came across. He seemed to me to be a townie that wanted to be noticed, to contribute to the game rather than disappearing into the background, which can very easily happen. Then when he got even the lightest bit of suspicion thrown on him, he became extremely aggressive and tried to override a town read. From my own experience as scum, his seniors would have coached him in how to react, and I'm sure you all got coached by more experienced scumbuddies as scum yourself. I don't think scum would suddenly explode like that. Of course you could say he's doing it for just that reason, but that's stepping into WIFOM territory.

And Rhinox, I generally play like this. I observe, make short, snappy posts that are about a day between unless something major pops up. I'm usually here reading when I'm not at work, but I only post once or twice a dfay. It's in my playstyle. Look at any of my previous games if you want meta.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

EPWODP. Him as.* Day* Shouldn't be posting after I've been up all night.

[C-Worl]

I'm bored...

[Fishythefish]

@EMP: your posting on kuz:

kuz:

Why you both are assuming malicious intent behind the question is beyond me.

Well, why *shouldn't* they assume malicious intent? This is a game of mafia, after all.
And why should "it's my playstyle" give you carte blanche to do whatever-you-want?

kuz:
At this site of yours, they know all about such terms as "LAL" and "chainsaw defending", but they don't cover something as basic as a claim at lynch-1?

I'm ready to shift my vote back to you.

Tis cool though. I'll just wait to see who comes to chainsaw you.

From the beginning, kuz is *expecting* to get attacked. His "defensiveness" starts before the bandwagon- it's not a reaction to it. In fact, once the bandwagon against him starts, the opposite happens: he underreacts, if anything.

I don't think kuz is an innocent newbie. I think he's either guilty or he's trying some kind of stupid gambit.

I think a lot of people- on both sides of the argument- are missing the point.
The issue is not what the correct reaction in an abstract lynch-1 situation.
The issue is how *kuz* reacted in *this game*.

Don't just narrowly look at the single reaction. Compare that to how kuz has acted elsewhere in the game. Kuz had absolutely no problem responding to C-Worl's initial accusation. He's talking about LAL and chainsawing. He is not a newbie. Let me repeat that:

Kuz is not a newbie. Stop shielding him with that excuse.

(The only way I'll believe he's a newbie is if he's mafia, and his partner overstuffed his ears with too much advice.)

I'm very tempted to give up on Rhinox and give kuz a 24 hour post-or-be-voted ultimatum. Let's see how I feel tomorrow.

These don't read to me like someone trying to decide about kuz's alignment. In all of these you seem to have totally made up you mind about the reasons for kuz's behaviour - when you ask him questions, they are leading enough to be functionally rhetorical. I feel these aren't "questioning kuz to work out his alignment", they are "pushing for kuz's lynch" - and that the points in them are really pretty weak.

[sAbLLimINal]

@ThAdmiral: Feel free to ignore it if you want, I don't really care.

@MK: Does your typical playstyle usually result in you hammering the vote and nothing else? I'm just curious as to why you're neglecting to use one of the most powerful tools to help you and the town.

[Archaist]

Sorry for the doublepost, but just noticed something I want to think through.

I am interested what this might be.

Archaist:
You don't see any difference between "asking what the reason for something is" and "arguing that those reasons are faulty"?

I was saying that you both questioned it, not that the goals behind the questions are the same. But now that you clarify your point, I agree that there is a difference.

And what did you mean in your very first post:

To me, the jump onto kuz feels like simple opportunism.

Kind of like your #55, a blatant attempt to start a wagon... for coming in a bit late?

if you weren't saying me and Rhinox were equal in any way?

Not sure what you are trying to get at here. I'm saying you're both guilty of some level of opportunism. It's not a big point one way or the other. My read on you is still neutral.

C-Worl... The most impatient player in this game.

I'm bored...

Just had to point this out.

From my own experience as scum, his seniors would have coached him in how to react

Not necessarily, I've seen some pretty barren quick topics.

@Fishythefish: Do you think you have a better case on EmpTyger (#204) than Mitsuru Kirijo (#170)? Since your vote on #170 MK explained himself, but your vote stayed there despite your points against EmpTyger.

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAdmiral: Feel free to ignore it if you want, I don't really care.

Wait, did you ask me something I didn't answer?

[EmpTyger]

My thought was this: iama gave out some very good reads at the onset with some careful analysis, but lately he has seemed complacent. Which seems off to me.


iama:
How did you process-of-eliminate sAb?


Fishy:
I'm tempted to ask, well, how do you pressure suspicious lurking players. Though I actually think I'm satisfied enough by where you're coming from.


Archaist:
Honestly, I'm too tired irl to explain right now why I think you're just saying things for the sake of saying things.

[iamausername]

I am going to be V/LA until Tuesday

Sorry bout that.

Noted. I'll try to give you a chance to pop in before I close D1

[Beefster]

The day is nearing its end. The sun is setting. A decision has not been made. That's politics, I suppose.

The vote count has not changed

[ThAdmiral]

Well I'm happy where my vote is and I don't want to move it. I seriously don't get why you don't want to lynch kuz/arch.

For the sake of pushing through a deadline lynch, however, I would be willing to move my vote to sab, mk or c-worl.

[C-Worl]

Vote: Archaist

We need to lynch someone and Archaist has continued to be my biggest suspect.

[EmpTyger]

Archaist hasn't really playing like a doomed mafia with an approaching deadline.

Vote: Mitsuru Kijiro

ThAd:
Why sAb?

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

Vote ThAD.

My opinion hasn't changed.

[HotDogs]

If the day ends in No Lynch I want people to look at EmpTyger and Mitsuru Kirijo as probscum. If Archaist flips scum down the line I want people to realize Mitsuri Kirijo and EmpTyger are obvscum.

[C-Worl]

If the day ends in No Lynch I want people to look at EmpTyger and Mitsuru Kirijo as probscum. If Archaist flips scum down the line I want people to realize Mitsuri Kirijo and EmpTyger are obvscum.

Wrong account sorry.

If the day ends in No Lynch I want people to look at EmpTyger and Mitsuru Kirijo as probscum. If Archaist flips scum down the line I want people to realize Mitsuri Kirijo and EmpTyger are obvscum.

[sAbLLimINal]

Could you explain your reasoning behind that c-worl? It looks to me like you would rather lynch MK than Archaist.

[EmpTyger]

sAb:
Why do you say that C-Worl would rather lynch MK than Archaist?


C-Worl:
Try again, this time without presuming a 3-person mafia.
Also, anything to declare for if Archaist flips town down the line?

[sAbLLimINal]

Oh sorry I misread his post because he switched you and MK around the second time. I thought he was saying MK and Archaist are obvscum and thought he created a scenario where in both cases MK would have to be scum.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAd:
Why sAb?

I don't think he's put himself out there all that much, and to be honest I don't like his reasoning.

[EmpTyger]

ThAd:
Okay, but then why C-Worl?  (And why not Rhinox?  Does that mean you like his reasoning?)

[Rhinox]

Vote: ThAd

I'd switch to Archaist at deadline to prevent no lynch, but I really don't think he's scum.

[Beefster]

Votecount 1.9

Archaist (3) - iamausername, ThAdmiral, C-Worl
ThAdmiral (3) - sAb, Mitsuru Kirijo, Rhinox

MK (2) - Fishy, EmpTyger
C-Worl (1) - Archaist

Not Voting - Nobody

With 9 players alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

The deadline is 11:59 PM, May 25 (MDT)

[Fishythefish]

@Fishythefish: Do you think you have a better case on EmpTyger (#204) than Mitsuru Kirijo (#170)? Since your vote on #170 MK explained himself, but your vote stayed there despite your points against EmpTyger.

My case on Emp is rather tempered by the fact that for reasons I don't really understand, I don't think he's actually scum. As for MK, I still don't see much I like there. His townread on kuz seems rather a stretch - basing your townread on someone on the theoretical advice of his partners in their theoretical daytalk seems a bit off. Why do you assume the scum have daytalk, MK? His reasons for suspecting ThAd - pretty much just "wagon hopping" don't really convince me, and the statement that iam is scummy just because ThAd quoted him when voting just doesn't seem like something that I'd ever think.

I'm currently pretty torn between the other two wagons. I'll decide between them if I have to, but I think MK is a better way to go.