Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[ThAdmiral]

3. Page 100! Cool!

[ThAdmiral]

3. Page 100! Cool!

Aw, I missed it...

[Lowell]

101 is cool, don't be sad.

[Sathoris]

VOTE: Sathoris

Trying to decide exactly what I want to do. The VCA is convincing, but my theory makes Enigma town....

Which theory?

[ThAdmiral]

101 is cool, don't be sad.

Thank you for your kind words of support.

[Sotty7]

6th vote count of day 6

Enigma - 3 -

Lowell, The Fonz, Sathoris

Sathoris - 2 -

ThAdmiral, bvoigt

Not voting - 2 -

Enigma, PeregrineV

• The deadline for the end of day six is Friday 27th May @ 9pm CST
  
• With
  7
  alive it takes
  4
  to lynch.

[The Fonz]

@ fonz: To your first point I guess I just don't believe flavour arguments hold any weight in this game. The fact that he seems to be an impossible character probably means he is telling the truth if anything, seeing how crazy the history is in this game already!

Baby, bathwater. I mean, again, it's not impossible, but bad fakeclaims exist.

While my votecount reasoning suggests enigma and lowell it is possible that they were all-town wagons. Basically I have lost a bit of faith in my theory. As far as sathoris goes it is not that I have better case on him, I just feel enigma and lowell are more likely town than sathoris (engima because of his genuine sounding -1 post yesterday, and lowell for generally town-looking play throughout the game) - so it is more of a poe reason than anything else.

Meh, I'm always suspicious of 'Genuine sounding L-1 posts' because, well, that's what scum's going to be aiming for. Remember that game where CKD faked a 'Bah, that's a hammer, you just lynched a townie' mistake? I see Sath and Enigma as very similar slots (EGL more so than Enigma). The unique points against them seem to be the VCA on one side, and the flavour argument on the other. I think the VCA is probably the more convincing of the two, especially given the wifom surrounding my role and Tito (From Communist countries, but no friends of the USSR). The best argument I can muster for Enigma town, really, is that he's continued his tunnel on you even when it seems that voting Sathoris would be better for his survival chances. Comes across stubborn town. Then again, he actually said he believes Sathoris to be scum.

I can't even begin to fathom what a mathematical fail this has become. Yes, given 24 values, choosing eight, it is very unlikely that a

specific

set of eight will all be excluded.

That's true, but using it in this sense is fallacious. Any

specific

combination of eight players is equally likely. However, combinations involving one scum are much more likely than combinations involving none. You'd expect two or three, one is possible, none is a really extreme occurrence. This concurs with my experience of mafia playing, when I don't think I've ever seen a wagon in a large game get to eight without a single scum on it. Certainly not a townwagon, and I think ThAd is town.

Lowell, could you explain how Enigma is playing 'Mad scummy?'

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Sathoris

Trying to decide exactly what I want to do. The VCA is convincing, but my theory makes Enigma town....

Which theory?

Yesterday, I was thinking that since we had 10 capitalists and 14 communists, 2 of the 3 US mafia were lying about their nationalities. So with Beasts' flip, that gives me town reads on Enigma and ThAd.

[ThAdmiral]

Since clearly enigma isn't going to vote himself - it is up to you peregrine.
I trust you.

[Enigma]

VOTE: Sathoris

[Sathoris]

VOTE: Sathoris

Trying to decide exactly what I want to do. The VCA is convincing, but my theory makes Enigma town....

Which theory?

Yesterday, I was thinking that since we had 10 capitalists and 14 communists, 2 of the 3 US mafia were lying about their nationalities. So with Beasts' flip, that gives me town reads on Enigma and ThAd.

You'd rather place your trust in the game setup, which is unconfirmed if it even has even numbers of capitalists and cummunists, than in game play and analysis?

[bvoigt]

I've also had a scum read on you for a long time, so I'd rather place my trust in that, along with some setup speculation, than one bit of VCA.

[Sathoris]

Do you mind if I ask what kind of scum read you have on me. I'd be happy to alleviate some of your concerns.

[Sotty7]

7th vote count of day 6

Enigma - 3 -

Lowell, The Fonz, Sathoris

Sathoris - 3 -

ThAdmiral, bvoigt, Enigma

Not voting - 1 -

PeregrineV

• The deadline for the end of day six is Friday 27th May @ 9pm CST
  
• With
  7
  alive it takes
  4
  to lynch.

[The Fonz]

BV: What do you make of the Beasts/Enigma links?

[bvoigt]

Here are a few things I've noticed about Sathoris. Fonz, I'll look into their links later.

Of the two wagon's I mistrust Amrun the most. ThAd seems to eager to avoid a lynch on himself, as would anybody, but it doesn't seem toodesperate. Amrun felt he had to claim to get not lynched and messed it up a bit. The claim appears manufactured to me, going from memory to contruct a role only to later remember the inaccuracies. I'd look at my role PM again before I'd fully claim.

VOTE:

Amrun

This reason feels forced. Why would a "manufactured" claim have several inconsistencies?

I'm surpised so many of you piled on PI just because of her initial response to the questions. You only know your role and the town's win condition but you don't know what other roles are distributed to townies. Perhaps you did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

Frankly I find the question more scumworthy than the answer. The mafia have a basic knowledge of their roles but can't know what roles are available to the townies. Besides one suspicious answer and that person get's cornered.

Vote: Furcolow

I'm sticking with my vote on Amrun. PoisonIvy made several scumtells and came under pressure and didn't react all that well. Amrun replaced her and also came under pressure and was forced to claim which didn't absolve her. In fact the claim added more suspicion. Two players with one role making several scumtells which imo rules out any possibility of miscommunication.

These two quotes contradict each other. Early in the game, Sathoris didn't seem to buy the case on PoisonIvy, but then he changed his tune and claimed she made several scumtells.

vote: furcolow

LAL

I'm not buying this

VOTE: Furcolow

As I've mentioned, selfvoting is a nulltell. Voting someone because of it seems like a policy vote rather than real scumhunting.

The Fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large postings and commenting and anything he can get his hands. I'm not sure he's always like that, but I'm not comfortable with it. Especially since Jmj and mothrax were quite the opposite but all got the same role.
Then again you're doing something similar.

22

The Fonz

- He's on the right track

Polish townie

Here's another contradictory read. Sathoris, what made you change your mind between these posts?

[The Fonz]

Here are a few things I've noticed about Sathoris. Fonz, I'll look into their links later.

Of the two wagon's I mistrust Amrun the most. ThAd seems to eager to avoid a lynch on himself, as would anybody, but it doesn't seem toodesperate. Amrun felt he had to claim to get not lynched and messed it up a bit. The claim appears manufactured to me, going from memory to contruct a role only to later remember the inaccuracies. I'd look at my role PM again before I'd fully claim.

VOTE:

Amrun

This reason feels forced. Why would a "manufactured" claim have several inconsistencies?

I don't understand this point. A fake claim is far more likely to have inconsistencies than a genuine one.

These two quotes contradict each other. Early in the game, Sathoris didn't seem to buy the case on PoisonIvy, but then he changed his tune and claimed she made several scumtells.

This however is a very good point.

As I've mentioned, selfvoting is a nulltell. Voting someone because of it seems like a policy vote rather than real scumhunting.

Why are policy votes more likely to come from scum, though? As the best-known advocate of policy lynching on this site, I feel I have to object. Scum don't push policies that they don't believe as town. Calling policy lynching 'not real scumhunting' just isn't true. People are so willing to go policy lynch = scum (look at Beasts trying to pin precisely that on me) that I tend to find a willingness to PL townish.

In any case, Furcolow's selfvote felt like a calculated bit of posturing, rather than the usual newbie melting down under pressure cause for selfvoting.

The Fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large postings and commenting and anything he can get his hands. I'm not sure he's always like that, but I'm not comfortable with it. Especially since Jmj and mothrax were quite the opposite but all got the same role.
Then again you're doing something similar.

22

The Fonz

- He's on the right track

Polish townie

Here's another contradictory read. Sathoris, what made you change your mind between these posts?[/quote]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten 'Fonz is scum because he's trying.' People do change reads, though. It's lazy to go 'you changed your mind! CONTRADICTION!'

[Sathoris]

Here are a few things I've noticed about Sathoris. Fonz, I'll look into their links later.

Of the two wagon's I mistrust Amrun the most. ThAd seems to eager to avoid a lynch on himself, as would anybody, but it doesn't seem toodesperate. Amrun felt he had to claim to get not lynched and messed it up a bit. The claim appears manufactured to me, going from memory to contruct a role only to later remember the inaccuracies. I'd look at my role PM again before I'd fully claim.

VOTE:

Amrun

This reason feels forced. Why would a "manufactured" claim have several inconsistencies?

Well as I mentioned in a post after that one I said that, on the board where I played prior to joining mafiascum, someone made a very convincing claim. He claimed a sleepless shopkeeper and later changed it to sleepless shopkeep after "looking at his PM again". Now I know this isn't like that, but as this was my frst game here I thought back of that and acted on it.

If you look back at my post you see we already had a small discussion on why I thought it seemed manifactured.

I'm surpised so many of you piled on PI just because of her initial response to the questions. You only know your role and the town's win condition but you don't know what other roles are distributed to townies. Perhaps you did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

Frankly I find the question more scumworthy than the answer. The mafia have a basic knowledge of their roles but can't know what roles are available to the townies. Besides one suspicious answer and that person get's cornered.

Vote: Furcolow

I'm sticking with my vote on Amrun. PoisonIvy made several scumtells and came under pressure and didn't react all that well. Amrun replaced her and also came under pressure and was forced to claim which didn't absolve her. In fact the claim added more suspicion. Two players with one role making several scumtells which imo rules out any possibility of miscommunication.

These two quotes contradict each other. Early in the game, Sathoris didn't seem to buy the case on PoisonIvy, but then he changed his tune and claimed she made several scumtells.

True enough I thought the early pressure on PI was unfair. She was solely under pressure because of her take on the game setup. But when she was under pressure she reacted. Calling her wagon a farce and then dissapearing. (Ofc she hasn't posted anywhere anymore, but at the time I couldn't know that) Amrum also said PI dissapeared because she couldn't take the heat.

My first post you quoted was

before

PI made those 'tells' so I said what I said because being under pressure for guessing the game setup wrongly is hardly vote worthy.

Now my second post came after Amrun replaced in. She also said PI made several mistakes. Not quite apologising for her preddecesor, but acknoledging nonetheless. And well as I said, the claim coupled with more scummy play that can't be miscommunication anymore for one role made me put my vote there.

vote: furcolow

LAL

I'm not buying this

VOTE: Furcolow

As I've mentioned, selfvoting is a nulltell. Voting someone because of it seems like a policy vote rather than real scumhunting.

Well at that time it somewhat morphed into a policy lynch. I'm maintained my suspicion on furc throughout the entire game and this was the first vote of the day to put my vote back on him. And you might call it a nulltell, but I can't see the reason for town to vote for themselves. At least the mafia might get some sympathy out of it.

The Fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large postings and commenting and anything he can get his hands. I'm not sure he's always like that, but I'm not comfortable with it. Especially since Jmj and mothrax were quite the opposite but all got the same role.
Then again you're doing something similar.

22

The Fonz

- He's on the right track

Polish townie

Here's another contradictory read. Sathoris, what made you change your mind between these posts?

Mind you my first post was before the nameclaim and the Fonz put in a lot of work since then. Before that he was more or less focussed on smarg and pushing for his lynch. Hence my statement of him trying to sway us unto his plan. But as I said the nameclaiming business really changed my view on him. Reads change.

[The Fonz]

Sath, being focused on the person you think is scummiest is good town play. And I was 'putting in a lot of work' at the time. That's precisely what you called scummy - 'Commenting on everything, trying to get the town to agree with him' etc.

[Sathoris]

Focusing is good yeah, but you were nearly lasering in on him. That he had to be lynched because he put himself in a 1-1 situation. I didn't agree at the time. But I never said it was scummy. I said I wasn't comfortable with it. You had (in my view) a faulty case on smarg and you commented on lots of stuff, but never swaying from your goal of lynching smarg.

[Sathoris]

Thing is, I was unsure and uncomfortable with you being all over the place. During the nameclaiming stage I got convinced of your townie status and your posts helped a lot.

[bvoigt]

Here are a few things I've noticed about Sathoris. Fonz, I'll look into their links later.

Of the two wagon's I mistrust Amrun the most. ThAd seems to eager to avoid a lynch on himself, as would anybody, but it doesn't seem toodesperate. Amrun felt he had to claim to get not lynched and messed it up a bit. The claim appears manufactured to me, going from memory to contruct a role only to later remember the inaccuracies. I'd look at my role PM again before I'd fully claim.

VOTE:

Amrun

This reason feels forced. Why would a "manufactured" claim have several inconsistencies?

I don't understand this point. A fake claim is far more likely to have inconsistencies than a genuine one.

He didn't seem to be attacking her for inconsistencies, though...he was saying that she intentionally made mistakes to look more town. Is that correct, Sathoris?

As I've mentioned, selfvoting is a nulltell. Voting someone because of it seems like a policy vote rather than real scumhunting.

Why are policy votes more likely to come from scum, though? As the best-known advocate of policy lynching on this site, I feel I have to object. Scum don't push policies that they don't believe as town. Calling policy lynching 'not real scumhunting' just isn't true. People are so willing to go policy lynch = scum (look at Beasts trying to pin precisely that on me) that I tend to find a willingness to PL townish.

In any case, Furcolow's selfvote felt like a calculated bit of posturing, rather than the usual newbie melting down under pressure cause for selfvoting.

But this policy lynch wasn't for something like lying, or rolefishing, which helps scum and hurts town. This was for an action that hurts both town and scum. And that is why I don't see it as real scumhunting.

I'm surpised so many of you piled on PI just because of her initial response to the questions. You only know your role and the town's win condition but you don't know what other roles are distributed to townies. Perhaps you did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

Frankly I find the question more scumworthy than the answer. The mafia have a basic knowledge of their roles but can't know what roles are available to the townies. Besides one suspicious answer and that person get's cornered.

Vote: Furcolow

I'm sticking with my vote on Amrun. PoisonIvy made several scumtells and came under pressure and didn't react all that well. Amrun replaced her and also came under pressure and was forced to claim which didn't absolve her. In fact the claim added more suspicion. Two players with one role making several scumtells which imo rules out any possibility of miscommunication.

These two quotes contradict each other. Early in the game, Sathoris didn't seem to buy the case on PoisonIvy, but then he changed his tune and claimed she made several scumtells.

True enough I thought the early pressure on PI was unfair. She was solely under pressure because of her take on the game setup. But when she was under pressure she reacted. Calling her wagon a farce and then dissapearing. (Ofc she hasn't posted anywhere anymore, but at the time I couldn't know that) Amrum also said PI dissapeared because she couldn't take the heat.

My first post you quoted was

before

PI made those 'tells' so I said what I said because being under pressure for guessing the game setup wrongly is hardly vote worthy.

Now my second post came after Amrun replaced in. She also said PI made several mistakes. Not quite apologising for her preddecesor, but acknoledging nonetheless. And well as I said, the claim coupled with more scummy play that can't be miscommunication anymore for one role made me put my vote there.

Could you please show me the scumtells she made after that first post?

The Fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large postings and commenting and anything he can get his hands. I'm not sure he's always like that, but I'm not comfortable with it. Especially since Jmj and mothrax were quite the opposite but all got the same role.
Then again you're doing something similar.

22

The Fonz

- He's on the right track

Polish townie

Here's another contradictory read. Sathoris, what made you change your mind between these posts?

Mind you my first post was before the nameclaim and the Fonz put in a lot of work since then. Before that he was more or less focussed on smarg and pushing for his lynch. Hence my statement of him trying to sway us unto his plan. But as I said the nameclaiming business really changed my view on him. Reads change.

Fair enough.

[bvoigt]

@Fonz: Would you mind posting or reposting the case on Beasts/Enigma? I mostly understand your point, but would like to see it in one post.

[Sathoris]

But this policy lynch wasn't for something like lying, or rolefishing, which helps scum and hurts town. This was for an action that hurts both town and scum. And that is why I don't see it as real scumhunting.

It hurts town more. You viewed it as a nulltell. But others, like me, saw it as an act to get sympathy. Sympythay towards a scum players helps scum.

Could you please show me the scumtells she made after that first post?

PI's first post?

Hey guise! lets just hang me and the rest of ye guise can have fun disecting my farce of a wagon.

Ya know, actual substance. What people are doing are hanging back and delaying the inevitable.

Ive given my thoughts and opinions and as it is not good enough and i am the only wagon with so many "haters" then by all accounts my flipping should shed light on many varies of peoples.

And leaving after:

Then hang me Parker.

Vigs however, please hold your fire.

Because I, as others, thought she couldn't take the heat.

[ThAdmiral]

^^
This guy really needs to weigh in.