Open 307-Friends and Enemies Deadly Alliance-Town Wins!!

[[Low Key]]

Actually it took me quite awhile of reading your posts to figure it out so your English is quite good. Thanks for sharing because it will help me read your posts better and may even change my reads on you. Sometimes imprecise or unusual wording can really throw me.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, and for the record, I think the vig shot should be used D1 or D2 at the latest. There are a number of reasons this should make sense to everyone.

[[Low Key]]

Well Muffin if you and I disagree (on DK) that doesn't matter in the face of what the town thinks. If he is run up to L-1 with an eligible hammer call then he needs to be vigged because the town so willed it and I happen to be a strong believer in the fact that its best for the town for that to happen.

[[Low Key]]

I think you might be able to guess why I think D2 is sub-optimal then.

[zMuffinMan]

There's no case on DK though, it's just people saying OMGUS is scummy and he self-voted in RVS. Add to that the early VT claim.

Nothing there is scummy. Bad play, maybe - arguable. But scummy? No.

[[Low Key]]

At this point I think he has those brass (errrrm) teeth as scum. He's earned them in my eyes. He's gone over the acceptable level for reaction testing into psycho-newb-scum (or too scummy to be scum gambit) territory for me. At the very least my reasons 4-7 apply and I especially think #4 is enough even.

[DeityKabuto]

Wow, a lot going on. This will help me weed out the scum even further. I know my role, and I am warning the scum. Those who still doubt I am not Vanilla Townie, shall be voted upon in D2 when I flip town. Like I said, there is no point in further discussion of my scuminess, we should like really move on. If I were to be hammered today, the scum will have it more easier in the following rounds since it's you can't rid of all the scum in one day.

But w.e

nobody listens

[[Low Key]]

One of your earlier posts got me thinking though on a couple of other options that I hadn't even thought of before but I think I will just mull those over for now.

[[Low Key]]

Wow, a lot going on. This will help me weed out the scum even further. I know my role, and I am warning the scum. Those who still doubt I am not Vanilla Townie, shall be voted upon in D2 when I flip town. Like I said, there is no point in further discussion of my scuminess, we should like really move on. If I were to be hammered today, the scum will have it more easier in the following rounds since it's you can't rid of all the scum in one day.

But w.e

nobody listens

I think you are scum and I am calling for your vig if you are brought to L-1 with an eligible call for your hammer.

If you are town then you need to be the one to listen. Your play has been for the most part anti-town the entire game. You have taken your opening gambit too far and made it an actual playstyle. The only people that can do that successfully are very experienced players that when the time comes for proper analysis they can bring it with dazzling clarity.

I think the proper course for you would be to learn how to play a pro-town game and get used to that kind of behavior first. Once you are comfortable with that you can branch out into gambits which are for advanced players.

You have been a huge distraction for the town and are in no position to whine about people voting you for pulling a scum gambit.

You need to review site meta and learn why early claiming is anti-town and why it would help scum.

Sorry have to go now and can't put more time and effort into this post.

[Toro]

I think you need to learn to tell the difference between an obviously sarcastic joke and me being serious.

If I thought DK was scum, I'd get rid of him, as fun as it is to read his posts. He's not scum. There is no case on him.

Quite honestly I'm having a tough time believing that this was just a sarcastic joke. Here's why...starting with your response to this...

Yes please, explanation of everything and especially your vote.
Why would you want to keep someone that will hurt the town?

DK isn't "hurting" town.

Damn right he is, he is causing a commotion. And what is this "keep him whether he's town or scum"?
MuffMan, town's number 1 agenda is to lynch town, and you want to keep them? I FoS you, dear sir.

Yeah, I have a good laugh when I read his posts. I like him. Even if he claimed goon, I wouldn't want him lynched D1.

Jumping down, this is in response to Snarky asking Spadille why he voted you.

Why on Earth would a town not want to lynch a claimed goon?

Well, there are actually a couple very sensible reasons why I wouldn't want to lynch someone who claims "goon". But DK is cool with me, if I'm ever feeling a bit depressed, I can count on his posts to cheer me up.

There are no exceptions to town, once someone claims mafia goon.. they lynch them. You can start by stating your sensible reasons on why you wouldn't want to lynch the mafia other than you think they are funny.

I said there are a couple sensible reasons not to lynch someone who claims "goon", but if you're asking me why I wouldn't lynch DK if he claimed goon, it would be because he's not an immediate threat and I would consider the possibility that somewhere in his mind he thinks it's a reasonable thing to do as town.

So what you were trying to say is that it'd be fine keeping a confirmed scum in the game if they were relatively ineffective, and now you're trying to pass it off as a joke? Sorry, there is no chance in hell I'm going to believe that.

FOS: zMuffinMan

[zMuffinMan]

I'm not sure how someone claiming goon makes them confirmed scum or how anyone can really be confirmed scum in this game pre-flip.

Nor am I sure where you're getting the idea that I'd keep him around if I really thought he was scum. You're trying too hard to find something that's not there.

But, like I said, if you think what I did is scummy, DK's flip shouldn't matter and you should think I'm more likely scum than him, especially since

you have no real case on him

. Why not forget about DK, then? Since I'm calling him town, and I've done something you think is really scummy and you think I'm lying about it being a joke, why not go after me? Surely pursuing my lynch would be smarter, right?

[Toro]

I'm not sure how someone claiming goon makes them confirmed scum or how anyone can really be confirmed scum in this game pre-flip.

No one in their right mind would claim mafia goon, so if they did claim goon (which once again, is just ludicrous) should confirm them as scum, and if they do so, lynch 'em.

Nor am I sure where you're getting the idea that I'd keep him around if I really thought he was scum. You're trying too hard to find something that's not there.

You justified your stance earlier by offering an actual reason why you'd keep him around, and that was "he'd be a rather ineffective scum player." Don't say that I'm trying to find something that isn't there when it's literally right there (and just one post above yours.)

But, like I said, if you think what I did is scummy, DK's flip shouldn't matter and you should think I'm more likely scum than him, especially since

you have no real case on him

. Why not forget about DK, then? Since I'm calling him town, and I've done something you think is really scummy and you think I'm lying about it being a joke, why not go after me? Surely pursuing my lynch would be smarter, right?

Why are you trying to deflect attention off of DK? He claims he's scumhunting yet I've yet to see any real scumhunting from him, he's just pointing fingers mostly at those on his bandwagon shouting "YOU'RE SCUM! ALL THREE OF YOU ARE SCUM!" You might be right on DK being ineffective scum, but at the end of the day scum is scum, and they must hang.

[Archaist]

Here are my thoughts on town directed vig kill:
Pros:
1. Possible, but unlikely, to kill two scum before N1.
2. Flip before D1 lynch could provide good info.

Cons:
1. No guarantee the vig will comply, even if they are town.
2. No need to use it D1 unless you think they will be night killed, which is low probability.

[Archaist]

Thought about it some more. The chance of the vig being night killed increases every night, so the earlier the ability is used the better. The trade off is that the earlier it's used, the less info there is to go on. I think we have enough info now to draw some conclusions from various player interactions, as [Low Key] pointed out. I vote yes to D1 vig kill. The only caveat is con#1 that I said above.

[[Low Key]]

Good point Arch. I have thought about this. If the vig doesn't come after 72 hours then we have to assume that the scum have the vig -- That would actually change the outlook on the game in a drastic sort of way.

I believe that if the town has the vig they will shoot and they should shoot at the town top wagon.

[Toro]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

[[Low Key]]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

oh the irony...

[Toro]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

oh the irony...

You can't shoot yourself in this game can you?

[[Low Key]]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

This a scum slip declaring DK town ahead of time?

[Toro]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

This a scum slip declaring DK town ahead of time?

No, one of the twelve players in the game is vig, is DK exempt?

[[Low Key]]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

oh the irony...

You can't shoot yourself in this game can you?

You know what I think you actually could. If you can hammer yourself, you can sure shoot yourself. But let's see, self voting is bad because it removes a player slot that would normally have to hammer but self-shooting... I'm thinking that might just be the pro-town thing to do. Wow I've never thought about that before.

[hiphop]

Prodding DonJosh

[[Low Key]]

If the game was mountainous (VT's and scum only) I don't think it would matter as much if the player could choose a high-info, probably scum player but with town-aligned power roles in this game I'm thinking its prob best to self shoot.

[[Low Key]]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

This a scum slip declaring DK town ahead of time?

No, one of the twelve players in the game is vig, is DK exempt?

The point is only 9 of those players are town.

[Toro]

Unless in an extreme twist of fate, DK's the vig. :p

This a scum slip declaring DK town ahead of time?

No, one of the twelve players in the game is vig, is DK exempt?

The point is only 9 of those players are town.

Yes, and any one of them could be the vig. Same how any of the three members of the mafia team could be the vig. So DK could be the vig regardless of alignment.