Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame


User avatar
Soben
Soben
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Soben
Goon
Goon
Posts: 543
Joined: May 9, 2011

Post Post #450 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 2:30 pm

Post by Soben »

implosion wrote:Misread part of that. Why RBT instead of Katy, whose scumread you'd explained?

Katy provides content without being pressured thus the likelihood is I'll be able to read her easier as the game progresses whereas Ricetailball provides minimal content in all of her games.

Implosion, what's your thoughts on the Amrum vs Beefster argument?
User avatar
Feysal
Feysal
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Feysal
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1611
Joined: October 7, 2010
Location: Finland

Post Post #451 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 2:38 pm

Post by Feysal »

IceyCupcake [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3062502#p3062502]#393[/url] wrote:It's nice to play with you again, Feysal. I heard you improved greatly after Liten (SAIII, which I flaked out of after Fate/Benmage mess). :P

It is strange how different those two scum games of mine were, considering they both started about the same time. In Liten I bombed out day two, and in SAIII I lasted almost to the end, and we were seriously contending for the victory.

I'd forgotten you were in Liten too, your play there was decent from what I recall. I remembered you better from Consulmaker II, where I spent some effort defending your slot, and from SAIII where I stood by and let your hydra die.


So am I. I tend to play better when I'm enjoying what I'm doing.

Oh, and while I remember,

Unvote: inHimshallibe
Vote: IceyCupcake
Unvote: IceyCupcake
Vote: inHimshallibe


I've listened to the comments others have made and thought it over, and see no harm coming from this. I am not sure whether I should think of you as town or third party, but I believe the risks of the latter have been vastly exaggerated. I do not believe any role could possess an ability that would take something so basic as a vote and turn it into a weapon against the town. If it is part of some weird win condition, so be it, I don't mind sharing the victory. I would lynch a claimed jester too if it came to it, to be free of the headache.

Of course it could be a town ability like you claim. I have a hunch what it might be, but such speculation is better kept to myself.

Pine [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3062576#p3062576]#403[/url] wrote:I'm not even close to L-1. When what I'm prepared to do is complete, I'll be pushing for my own lynch. At that point, the pro-Town thing would be to help it along, even if you think I'm Town.

No. Just no. Inviting town players to participate in your lynch, even if they believe you, will not help in finding scum, instead it will hamper any efforts to analyze your wagon. I hope and believe there are enough town players who believe you so you don't need to die.

Pine [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3062611#p3062611]#405[/url] wrote:At this point, Soben, nothing I say will be taken seriously by half the players in this game until I flip Town. THAT is why I have to do it. Someone has to be the D1 lynch, and I'd rather is be a near-Vanilla player whose flip will make them more effective than their survival.

What you fail to consider is that several players will disagree with you even if you are revealed as town. Every town player is confirmed to himself, and what reason would anyone have to follow your reads over their own? Your willingness to die for your beliefs is a strong town tell for me, but it does not mean you would be right. I believe you're town, and I believe you're wrong. Your death would not change either of those things.

Bunnylover [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3063965#p3063965]#426[/url] wrote:Town does not give up. I'm not even sure if you are voting for one of your scum read Pine.

On the first part, I disagree. I have seen town post their reads and thoughts and commit suicide via modkill. I've also seen town
not
post any reads or thoughts at all and commit suicide via modkill, more than once. What I've never seen is scum even threaten to do it.

On the second part, if you believe Pine is scum, what scum reads could he have?

CryMeARiver [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3064361#p3064361]#433[/url] wrote:Oh, and selfvoting, or the threat of it, is never a town thing to do. Never.

I've heard this many times before, but I've yet to see it used against actual scum. Self-voting may be bad town play, but it is absolutely horrible scum play. Once you see a scum tell fail over and over again, it stops being one.
User avatar
IceyCupcake
IceyCupcake
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
IceyCupcake
Goon
Goon
Posts: 270
Joined: March 6, 2011

Post Post #452 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 2:53 pm

Post by IceyCupcake »

Soben wrote:
Implosion wrote: Basically, if Soben thinks Icey is town, Soben has little reason not to vote Icey like Icey asks because Icey clearly has reason that they can't reveal for asking for votes. If Soben's reason not to vote is the stated above, then I've debunked that. If it's because Soben isn't sure if Icey is town, there's still little reason not to because Soben has a townread on Icey, meaning it's more likely that there will be positive effects from voting Icey than negitave effects.

You really want to continue pushing this? I see the possibly of roles such as a cult-recruiter who is only allowed to recuit if he obtains x number of votes a day in the game thus there are indeed risks to voting him while no risks in not doing so.


Or I could be a cop who gets investigations based on the number of votes I receive during the day, or have some sort of sensor ability.

It's all hypothetical, and you can argue it either way.

What I don't get is, if you think we're town, why do you keep gravitating towards the worst possible scenarios rather than the most positive?
Written by GreyICE, unless it was written by Katsuki
User avatar
Soben
Soben
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Soben
Goon
Goon
Posts: 543
Joined: May 9, 2011

Post Post #453 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 2:56 pm

Post by Soben »

IceyCupcake wrote:What I don't get is, if you think we're town, why do you keep gravitating towards the worst possible scenarios rather than the most positive?

I don't think it's possible that I can make this any more clearer than this:

I consider anything that I don't believe is scum as town. I don't believe you're scum, therefore I put you in the town pile however I can very much see you as third party.
User avatar
Baby Spice
Baby Spice
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Baby Spice
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1740
Joined: September 10, 2010
Location: Australia

Post Post #454 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:00 pm

Post by Baby Spice »

Feysal wrote:but it is absolutely horrible scum play

Cough
SAIII
Cough


Though the mods not checking the thread for two days ruined it there.


Tell you what Icey.

I'll do the vote thing on you if you'll do the vote thing on me.
I don't know what annoys me more. Bad Harry Potter fan fiction that gets the facts right, or good Harry Potter fan fiction that doesn't.


Sometimes, when I say "I'm okay", I want someone to give me a hug and say, "Let's watch Doctor Who"
User avatar
IceyCupcake
IceyCupcake
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
IceyCupcake
Goon
Goon
Posts: 270
Joined: March 6, 2011

Post Post #455 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:20 pm

Post by IceyCupcake »

Thanks, we like thems explanations plain and geared towards the stupid. :D

Unvote, Vote: BabySpice
Unvote, Vote: Pine
Written by GreyICE, unless it was written by Katsuki
User avatar
CryMeARiver
CryMeARiver
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
CryMeARiver
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3460
Joined: January 6, 2010

Post Post #456 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:28 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

CryMeARiver wrote:
Pine wrote:I would never play this suicidally as scum. It's just not a good idea.

I would link you to games where I've played this way as Town, but at least one is ongoing. I think there's an offsite game like this, I'll find the link when I get home

At this point, I don't care if you're town. This mislynch would be okay with me. Threatening a selfvote or selfvoting is probably the biggest no-no in my book because it is incredibly anti-town if you're town or scummy if your scum.

Defend yourself by defending, not through a poor AtE.


Seems Feysal missed this.
Show
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.


"postgame i'm going to pee on you gandalf

pee on you" - Chesskid

V/LA (No access) from July 8th - July 14th


CMAR :cop:
User avatar
Feysal
Feysal
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Feysal
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1611
Joined: October 7, 2010
Location: Finland

Post Post #457 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:41 pm

Post by Feysal »

Baby Spice [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3065037#p3065037]#454[/url] wrote:
Cough
SAIII
Cough


Though the mods not checking the thread for two days ruined it there.

Right, but that was a self-hammer, with the intent of denying the town time to plan for the night phase. You were going to be lynched regardless of whether you voted yourself there. What I've never seen is scum giving up and start pushing for their own lynch when there is a chance for them to live.
User avatar
CryMeARiver
CryMeARiver
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
CryMeARiver
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3460
Joined: January 6, 2010

Post Post #458 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 3:48 pm

Post by CryMeARiver »

CryMeARiver wrote:
CryMeARiver wrote:
Pine wrote:I would never play this suicidally as scum. It's just not a good idea.

I would link you to games where I've played this way as Town, but at least one is ongoing. I think there's an offsite game like this, I'll find the link when I get home

At this point, I don't care if you're town. This mislynch would be okay with me. Threatening a selfvote or selfvoting is probably the biggest no-no in my book because it is incredibly anti-town if you're town or scummy if your scum.

Defend yourself by defending, not through a poor AtE.


Seems Feysal missed this.


I just realized that people might think of what I am doing as 1) Something with scum motives and 2) Scum trying to appear protown, but this is how I genuinely feel about AtE through selfvotes.
Show
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.


"postgame i'm going to pee on you gandalf

pee on you" - Chesskid

V/LA (No access) from July 8th - July 14th


CMAR :cop:
User avatar
Soben
Soben
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Soben
Goon
Goon
Posts: 543
Joined: May 9, 2011

Post Post #459 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 4:01 pm

Post by Soben »

Pine, any chance you can post an ETA on your list of reads?

CryMeARiver wrote: I just realized that people might think of what I am doing as 1) Something with scum motives and 2) Scum trying to appear protown, but this is how I genuinely feel about AtE through selfvotes.

I strongly disagree, I believe that lynching somone purely due to disliking their playstyle is a player basically stating they don't have any scum-reads which they should in this game. Attempting to pin the blame and sole reason of your vote on Pine for AtE is in itself bad play. What about his play do you believe has scum-motivation behind it rather than just frustrated town play?
User avatar
Pine
Pine
In Your Head
User avatar
User avatar
Pine
In Your Head
In Your Head
Posts: 16763
Joined: February 27, 2011
Location: Upstate New York

Post Post #460 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 4:05 pm

Post by Pine »

ETA is a day or so. Today was ridiculously busy, as my family sprang plans on me. I have tomorrow off, and this is my first priority after necessities.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
User avatar
Baby Spice
Baby Spice
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Baby Spice
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1740
Joined: September 10, 2010
Location: Australia

Post Post #461 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 4:45 pm

Post by Baby Spice »

Unvote Pine,
Vote Iceycupcake,
unvote iceycupcake,
vote Pine
I don't know what annoys me more. Bad Harry Potter fan fiction that gets the facts right, or good Harry Potter fan fiction that doesn't.


Sometimes, when I say "I'm okay", I want someone to give me a hug and say, "Let's watch Doctor Who"
User avatar
Soben
Soben
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Soben
Goon
Goon
Posts: 543
Joined: May 9, 2011

Post Post #462 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 5:03 pm

Post by Soben »

Icey, non Regfan head here. Although both Regfan and I don't believe you to be scum, we have the town's best interest in mind. We think about worst case scenarios because this is a game of trust. Trust has to be earned. Paranoia is a good thing, it keeps us all in check. Would you feel at ease if everyone just instantly trusted you? Don't you think its a good thing we are doubting you? Doubt, questioning, pressure, trials, those are the things that trust and town alliances are formed on.

Implosion, I doubt you would guess who I am if I gave you 3 guesses. I want to vote Amrun or LMP. Will discuss with Regfan. I don't have a problem with our vote right now, but that lynch isn't going to happen I don't think and I'd much rather push for Amrun/LMP.

Icey, would explaining your power make sense? Just a suggestion haven't thought the full consequences through. Generally, I'm a fan of town being as open as possible. Concealing things is a mafia tactic.

Pine's behavior is something I really need help interpreting.

I have a theory that this game is full of several self-aligned jesters. (00s music is a lot of terrible attention whores anyways). Lots of jesters + scum. Can see Slaxx jerking off to that type of setup to be honest.
User avatar
Soben
Soben
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Soben
Goon
Goon
Posts: 543
Joined: May 9, 2011

Post Post #463 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 5:12 pm

Post by Soben »

LOL. WRONG GAME. I'm thinking of 00s band mafia. Fuck. I do think there are a lot of jesters though. LOOOOL.
User avatar
WrathChild
WrathChild
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
WrathChild
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1896
Joined: November 30, 2010

Post Post #464 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 5:24 pm

Post by WrathChild »

OK, All caught up. I about to drop my vote on Pine. Meta defense is WIFOM and AtE. Threatening to self-hammer/give up is crap. If you know you're town don't freakin get yourself lynched. Our #1 priority is to kill scum, if you are town and resign yourself to a lynch, you deny your team an opportunity to do so.

Before I drop a vote, I'd like an official vote count.

Also, someone asked me to comment on a Katy slip. I didn't respond because I've never seen past renditions of this game and don't concern myself with flavor for much more than entertainment and still don't really get what the "slip" is supposed to imply.

Finally, a topic-starter (as if we didn't have enough anyway):
-Do you think there are any players with town wincon, but evil alignment?
I swear I left my gun somewhere.
User avatar
IceyCupcake
IceyCupcake
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
IceyCupcake
Goon
Goon
Posts: 270
Joined: March 6, 2011

Post Post #465 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 5:40 pm

Post by IceyCupcake »

@Soben: I've been instructed by Katsuki very clearly that claiming anything in a Snow_Bunny game is a Very Bad ThingTM. I will say is that we've thrown a spotlight on ourselves right at the start of day 1, and there's town motives in our actions. You've been reaching pretty hard here (A cult recruiter that recruits based on voting?) and it's all wrong as hell :P Honestly, on a scale of 1-10, how likely is it that we're scum here?

Also Nicodemus, I can guess who you are, so nyah ;)

Anyway, feeling less certain about Pine scum. One of my first games here, Magua pulled the 'well you might as well kill me' gambit as scum, but he was up shit creek, without a paddle, and it was very lackadasical. Pine I think actually feels that we're going to have some respect for his reads after he's dead (joke's on him - I've had people ignore my reads after I've been NIGHT KILLED, nevermind lynched). So despite the fact that I fucking hate everything he's written since he decided to stop scumhunting and start Third Party hunting and playing the persecuted martyr, I'm going to say that I don't have strong confidence in this lynch. Bad posts and scum posts are not the same thing at all.

Unvote

Vote: RiceBallTail


RBT is normally an aggressive player. This 'unvote until I do some ISOs' is so not the RBT I know and saved from mislynching in Sherlock. This isn't town RBT at all.
Written by GreyICE, unless it was written by Katsuki
User avatar
IceyCupcake
IceyCupcake
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
IceyCupcake
Goon
Goon
Posts: 270
Joined: March 6, 2011

Post Post #466 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 5:42 pm

Post by IceyCupcake »

@Wraith: I imagine so what with the town being the 'bad guys' this time around. Actually it's fairly likely that scum may have 'good' alignments, although I'm not setup speculating today. I doubt an alignment claim is a good idea either :P
Written by GreyICE, unless it was written by Katsuki
User avatar
Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Albert B. Rampage
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 27261
Joined: April 8, 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

Post Post #467 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 5:47 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

IceyCupcake wrote:RBT is normally an aggressive player.


That doesn't represent my experience with RBT at all.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
User avatar
Amrun
Amrun
Killed the Radio Star
User avatar
User avatar
Amrun
Killed the Radio Star
Killed the Radio Star
Posts: 22501
Joined: January 24, 2011
Location: East Coast US

Post Post #468 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 5:50 pm

Post by Amrun »

Icey, is RBT seriously usually aggressive? Hmm. I need to meta him to decide for myself.

Did you ever check out Beefster?

I am not as sure on Pine anymore, either. His lynch wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen today, but it isn't the best, either. Hence why my vote has been off him a long time.


Also, WrathChild, why would a town player have an evil alignment? My alignment isn't evil. But apparently the sorcerors were the bad guys last time instead of town like now? So idk.
I survived
Tigerpocalypse 2011


Fusion Mafia, ongoing now.
User avatar
IceyCupcake
IceyCupcake
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
IceyCupcake
Goon
Goon
Posts: 270
Joined: March 6, 2011

Post Post #469 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 6:06 pm

Post by IceyCupcake »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:
IceyCupcake wrote:RBT is normally an aggressive player.


That doesn't represent my experience with RBT at all.

Played two games with RBT so far, and in both of them she was abrasive and moved her vote around freely and pretty much stuck to attacking people as town. Well, at least Sherlock, I was scum in SEMG, so I didn't really try to read her too hard, but Sherlock she was fairly obvtown, and her day 1 wagon was utter crap.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... er_sort=Go

Here she's far quieter and more tentative, I don't like it. She's scummy. The 'lemme go do some ISOs' is so fucking scummy, especially from RBT.
Written by GreyICE, unless it was written by Katsuki
User avatar
Pine
Pine
In Your Head
User avatar
User avatar
Pine
In Your Head
In Your Head
Posts: 16763
Joined: February 27, 2011
Location: Upstate New York

Post Post #470 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 6:08 pm

Post by Pine »

@Amrun: Good/Evil alignment is independent of faction. My role PM explicitly states that it is part of a mechanic and determines how certain abilities affect you.

I, for example, am a Sorcerers-aligned Evil Undead. Undead are always evil. Well, 99.99%
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
User avatar
Amrun
Amrun
Killed the Radio Star
User avatar
User avatar
Amrun
Killed the Radio Star
Killed the Radio Star
Posts: 22501
Joined: January 24, 2011
Location: East Coast US

Post Post #471 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 6:09 pm

Post by Amrun »

You're undead?
I survived
Tigerpocalypse 2011


Fusion Mafia, ongoing now.
User avatar
Pine
Pine
In Your Head
User avatar
User avatar
Pine
In Your Head
In Your Head
Posts: 16763
Joined: February 27, 2011
Location: Upstate New York

Post Post #472 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 6:12 pm

Post by Pine »

Did I stutter?

I'm a
Wight
, a medium-strength sentient undead created to guard the Sorcerer's Den. I'll full-claim before I die. Basically, I have a weak attack and an interesting but extremely conditional ability.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
Julius Caesar
, by W. Shakespeare
User avatar
Amrun
Amrun
Killed the Radio Star
User avatar
User avatar
Amrun
Killed the Radio Star
Killed the Radio Star
Posts: 22501
Joined: January 24, 2011
Location: East Coast US

Post Post #473 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 6:17 pm

Post by Amrun »

You were not at L-1...
I survived
Tigerpocalypse 2011


Fusion Mafia, ongoing now.
User avatar
Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Albert B. Rampage
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 27261
Joined: April 8, 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

Post Post #474 (ISO) » Sun May 22, 2011 6:25 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Don't claim shit. I believe your role name.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.

Return to “Completed Large Theme Games”