Open 304 - Hard Boiled, Game Over. Was DY's Dystopia saved?

[Amrun]

Um, HT does have a scum result. Otherwise, I would not advocate him coming out.

Obviously, there is a small chance DG hid behind the vig, but that's unlikely and if that happens, they'll just both have to claim. It's worth it.

VOTE: toffee

[don_johnson]

Unless hider hid behind one of the two dead townies.

[Amrun]

I seriously doubt it. But if that happened, obviously the ht shouldn't come out.

[zMuffinMan]

Well considering I'm the new nameloc and I'm not scum, replace nameloc with RedCoyote in your list, don.

How he managed to go through D1 without being called out for being scum is beyond me.

And I have no idea where this case on my player slot came from, but I'm willing to bet it's a steaming pile of crap. I'd be willing to bet 1-2 scum were latching onto don's vote on me. And I'd also be willing to bet that at least 1-2 scum jumped on the DK wagon at the end of yesterday. That's just gut, but I don't think it's a coincidence that I had a huge wagon on me followed by a jump to DK and him getting lynched.

RedCoyote and Newman need to be lynched or vigged soon.

[Amrun]

Make a case on Red Coyote and Newman, muffin.

I don't see it.

[zMuffinMan]

I won't make a case on Newman until I've seen him post.

As for RedCoyote, there are particular aspects of his play that gave me really scummy vibes on reading through.

He was being really wishy-washy in justifying why his vote was still on CK at certain points (e.g. when asked whether he thought CK's play was anti-town or scummy, he said he wasn't sure but it's worth a vote. Later, when toffee pointed out RC was still voting for chess, he tried to justify it again by saying that CK was the one he wanted lynched the most, despite acknowledging there was no case on CK).

After unvoting CK, he sheeped wagons the rest of the day (DK->toffee->DK) - go back and check his posts for justification (hint: there is none). While it isn't outright scummy that he sheeped, the fact that he had no better scum read than CK followed by his sheeping just reeks of scum.

His posts are largely fluff, there's a lot of discussion that goes nowhere - no suspicions, just answering questions or pointing out things that have no relevance to scum hunting.

Also, little snipes at DK while on the DK wagon at the end of the day just came off as scummy to me (e.g. #231, misrepresenting DK, and his comments towards DK in #273)

And I just have a gut feeling that he was scum jumping on DK after the early vanilla claim.

[HellloooNewman]

Well considering I'm the new nameloc and I'm not scum, replace nameloc with RedCoyote in your list, don.

How he managed to go through D1 without being called out for being scum is beyond me.

And I have no idea where this case on my player slot came from, but I'm willing to bet it's a steaming pile of crap. I'd be willing to bet 1-2 scum were latching onto don's vote on me. And I'd also be willing to bet that at least 1-2 scum jumped on the DK wagon at the end of yesterday. That's just gut, but I don't think it's a coincidence that I had a huge wagon on me followed by a jump to DK and him getting lynched.

RedCoyote and Newman need to be lynched or vigged soon.

Firstly, welcome to the game.

Now that we got that over with....

You had fresh eyes to read the thread and your first post simply says "I'm amazed nobody called RC scum" and then "vote RC and Newman".

Do you not think that the appropriate time to actually say something with content was during that first post? Like, perhaps making a case on your scum reads? Seems to me that you are throwing 2 names out there to see who you might get a wagon on first. Pretty thinly veiled too, I may add.

I'm gonna give the HT a bit more time to claim (if it makes sense to claim at this point), but if he doesn't, my vote is gonna go on Muffin.

[HellloooNewman]

EBWOP

Posted the above without preview reading Muffins post. I feel a bit better now that he has posted an actual case on RC.

I retract my statement about my vote going on Muffin if the HT doesn't out himself.

[zMuffinMan]

Well, the reason I didn't want to make a case on you is because I was looking for something in your first post today, but you didn't post what I expected you'd post.

I was mostly null on you when reading through D1, but your interactions with DK at the end of D1 ("you're scum!" "obvscum!" etc) looked like you were trying to pull a gambit I've seen scum do quite often (followed by coming out all apologetic the next day saying they were wrong). Although, in hindsight, I should have just lurked until you responded because my initial post probably skewed your response.

[Scott Brosius]

As I stated yesterday Amrun was a member of literally every wagon yesterday. That is not town play.

Vote: Amrun

[Amrun]

I wasn't, actually. Go ahead with your bad self, though.

[zMuffinMan]

1. smashbro_of_the_SSS
2. toffee
3. don_johnson
6. RedCoyote
8. Amrun
9. Scott Brosius
10.

nameloc1986

zMuffinMan
12. HellloooNewman

Three scum, a vig and a HT in there. Betting good money RC won't claim HT.

My top scum pick is RC. I probably won't budge from this unless I see good reason to.

VOTE: RedCoyote

Amrun needs a bullet to the head if RC flips scum. Actually, Amrun needs to die one way or the other. There is so much insincerity here

Scum killed chesskid, when his scumdar was leading him astray?!

coupled with CK considering the possibility that Amrun was scum at the end of D1. I don't think the fact she was on "every" wagon is a tell, though.

[Amrun]

I wasn't on every wagon anyway. He's flat up lying.

I've been thinking, though, looking through Chess' history.

He suspected Surye most, but also Scott Brosius and toffee.

Scott Brosius has been wholly unimpressive, but CK was really the only one to express suspicion.


But you're new here, zmuffin, so you don't understand how weird a chesskid nk is in this situation. He is ... not popular, among many, and sometimes policy lynched, though I think he has good scumdar and don't agree with that.

But perhaps they were thinking he really was the vig after his shenanigans about it yesterday.

[Scott Brosius]

Guys, if that was the hammer, I apologize.

I really did not intend to end the day.

Hence why I requested more votecounts at least once or twice.

I should have done one myself before placing a vote.

Deity Kabuto, if you are town, step up your game, and step it up now, before the mod gets her and locks the thread.

Apology for the hammer, yet earlier in the thread....

Unvote; Vote: toffee

This should be 4 for toffee.

@Mod: Can we get more frequent votecounts?

Knew the number of votes at that time. I'm not buying the hammer.

Pretty much every wagon having >3 players on it includes you.

[Amrun]

At that point, the last vote count was closer. OUR MOD FLAKED. WE HAD NO VOTE COUNT FOR LIKE 2 WEEKS.

I drove the nameloc wagon and dissolved it myself when I realized I didn't like it. I voted for Surye briefly, and toffee, who is my top suspect. And DeityKabuto, who was acting like a complete clown.

I moved my vote around to find which wagons I liked and which suspects I liked. Get over it. It's not a scumtell.

If I didn't like a wagon, I said so, like with the chesskid wagon, which was always shit.

[zMuffinMan]

@Scott,

I think Amrun really didn't know it was the hammer, but I do not believe for a second that she didn't want DK lynched.

@Amrun,

He suspected Surye most, but also Scott Brosius and toffee.

Scott Brosius has been wholly unimpressive, but CK was really the only one to express suspicion.

That would be legitimate if CK wasn't more suspicious of the people jumping bandwagons at the end of the day.

It also makes sense that CK could have been killed with that in mind.

But you're new here, zmuffin, so you don't understand how weird a chesskid nk is in this situation. He is ... not popular, among many, and sometimes policy lynched, though I think he has good scumdar and don't agree with that.

The problem with this theory is that you (and a few others) clearly stated you think he is town in this game, so there was no viable way anyone could have pushed for a mislynch on him without changing the minds of several players or (if they're scum) being inconistent with their previous reads.

Regardless of what normally happens, it was never going to happen in this game. He looked town.

But if you think his scumdar is good, then surely you can agree that it's likely there was scum jumping on the DK wagon at the end of D1.

[Amrun]

I never said I didn't want DK lynched. I did, and I said as much. I didn't mean to end the day, though. As it turned out, our mod had flaked so we got plenty of time.

And yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think scum was pr-hunting with chesskid. He did a good job faking them out, though.

[zMuffinMan]

I never said I didn't want DK lynched. I did, and I said as much. I didn't mean to end the day, though.

Yeah, I was clarifying that I think you didn't realise you were the hammer, but I also think you wouldn't have had a problem with ending the day then and there. I think you knew you were at least putting him at L-1, and you don't do that unless you're fine with a hammer coming at any time.

[Amrun]

I just felt bad that I did it without notification and giving him/her/it time to get his final reads out, etc.

But we had time anyway, so it didn't matter.

[RedCoyote]

Wait... scum killed chesskid?

I'm actually going to guess the Vig shot chess. Either way it seems kind of silly. Surye had already claimed, so the scum probably wanted to take him out. I mean, I guess it could've gone either way.

---

i would argue against the claim, but with the hider dead, hider tracker is confirmed town, no? although i still think it may be wise for ht to lay low unless they have a scum result. what does everyone think?

What we should do is have the Hider Tracker voting their scum result (if they have one) and trying to get their lynch through going that route first. If the Hider Tracker can successfully get a lynch through without claiming, then they can claim tomorrow and the town will be in a much better position.

---

And I have no idea where this case on my player slot came from, but I'm willing to bet it's a steaming pile of crap.

That you're not willing to recognize that there were reasonable issues with nameloc's play yesterday is already a bad sign. Had I replaced into this slot, I would probably not open with the sweeping (and false) generalization that those who had issues with nameloc yesterday were full of crap. There were real, substantial issues with some of the things he said.

[RC's] posts are largely fluff

I don't think that word means what you think it means. I don't have the luxury of posting often enough to make fluff posts, so at the very outset here we're having a real disconnect in interpreting this game. I mean, if you'd care to elaborate what exactly you think I'm saying that would constitute as fluff, then perhaps we can argue a bit.

---

He suspected Surye most, but also Scott Brosius and toffee.

Scott Brosius has been wholly unimpressive, but CK was really the only one to express suspicion.

This might be a good idea to persue if we were sure chess was the scumkill, but honestly I just cannot say that with certainty.

---

Knew the number of votes at that time. I'm not buying the hammer.

Pretty much every wagon having >3 players on it includes you.

Yeah, this is a major issue I'm having with Amrun. I don't see how she can offset these two positions here. It's almost like she threw that vote count request in there just so she could later say that she was trying to get the Mod to come back. I can totally see that. It's basically a free townie lynch for her.

---

At that point, the last vote count was closer. OUR MOD FLAKED. WE HAD NO VOTE COUNT FOR LIKE 2 WEEKS.

Yeah, but you recognized this issue on the very post where you hammered. That's what makes this all so hard to justify for you. Sticking by your hammer would've been fine, even apologizing for the hammer might have been fine, but this post really puts you over the top, I think. Now you're just blaming the Mod for the lynch, and that's not going to cut it for me, babe.

Vote: Amrun

---

I think Amrun really didn't know it was the hammer, but I do not believe for a second that she didn't want DK lynched.

Actually, Amrun needs to die one way or the other.

This does not compute. Is she town or isn't she?

[Amrun]

I didn't know it was the hammer. I would have been fine if I'd just said, "This is the hammer." Why wouldn't I have done that, if I had known, for either alignment?

I clearly don't care that DK was lynched. I was voting to achieve a lynch at that point. I still preferred toffee but it was clear not as many people did.

You're saying I'm pointing out good things and then voting for me and it doesn't add up.

What about toffee? Didn't you suspect him?


Agree about muffin's weirdness, though.

[Amrun]

I'm trying so hard to care about this game. SO HARD.

It's not really working.

[zMuffinMan]

That you're not willing to recognize that there were reasonable issues with nameloc's play yesterday is already a bad sign. Had I replaced into this slot, I would probably not open with the sweeping (and false) generalization that those who had issues with nameloc yesterday were full of crap. There were real, substantial issues with some of the things he said.

That's cool. Don't particularly care what you would have done.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. I don't have the luxury of posting often enough to make fluff posts, so at the very outset here we're having a real disconnect in interpreting this game. I mean, if you'd care to elaborate what exactly you think I'm saying that would constitute as fluff, then perhaps we can argue a bit.

I call it fluff because there's no real content. And by no real content, I mean not once yesterday did you actually post anything that made me think you're scum hunting. Literally not once. You kept your vote on CK for most of the day, unwilling to actually take a stance on whether you thought he was scummy while saying you thought he was the best lynch. Then you did a bit of vote-hopping between DK->toffee->DK while posting more walls that really contained very little relevant content.

For example, what was the reason you felt the need to point out how you would have played if you had replaced into my slot? Do you think I'm scummy because I'm not playing the way you think I should? Is there any real reason you felt the need to mention that?

Do you want me to go through every one of your posts and dissect why I think there's little to no relevant content?

This does not compute. Is she town or isn't she?

Where's the inconsistency? I don't think she's town. I also don't believe she knew she was the hammer when she hammered DK.

[RedCoyote]

I didn't know it was the hammer.

Even if I concede this (because I think you did know, but let's leave that aside for argument's sake), you still have to justify why, in the same post, you're complaining about the lack of a Mod presence (which was of course accurate, but that's beside the point). As Scott pointed out, you even go a step further and complain about the lack of vote counts way before your hammer. Back when you voted toffee. So, I mean, you're going to sit there and tell me that in the three posts prior to your vote, there were two votes on a growing DK wagon that you knew about, coupled with you knowing that the Mod wasn't around and wasn't giving frequent VCs, that after all this, you're still going to try and pass off the blame on the Mod for the lynch? That's what gets me.

What about toffee? Didn't you suspect him?

I do, and I think she would be a good alternative lynch for the awkward way she joined the DK wagon.

---

Do you want me to go through every one of your posts and dissect why I think there's little to no relevant content?

I'd rather not because I can already tell you're not being very fair. The example you've given is pertinent to this game. It speaks to your intellectual honesty (or lack thereof) that you are coming into this game effectively telling those (which is quite a few of us) that suspected nameloc yesterday to be full of crap. Above that, your hyperbolic claims ("Nothing you posted resembled scumhunting. Literally not one thing.") speak to this as well.

Now you take all this, look at something like this,

Where's the inconsistency? I don't think she's town. I also don't believe she knew she was the hammer when she hammered DK.

and you maybe have a little something to work with. Maybe you do believe this, but maybe you're trying to appease the Amrun wagon while simultaneously causing some misdirection by voting me and drumming up a new offense on me based on an old argument. I could conceivably see some Amrun - Muffin pairing here.

[zMuffinMan]

I'd rather not because I can already tell you're not being very fair.

OK.

I'll be blunt here, and you can tell me where I'm not being fair.

You asked a lot of questions yesterday (to appear like you were scum hunting), but did nothing with the answers (essentially meaning the questions you asked were useless). You had no real suspicions yesterday. You thought CK was anti-town, but you weren't sure whether he was scummy. You didn't have any better suspicions than CK, who you admitted there was no case on. Then you switched over to DK->toffee->DK with almost no reason given except that you agreed with someone else or liked the wagon.

Is there a reason you think I'm not being fair here? Do you think there's some misrepresentation going on?

The example you've given is pertinent to this game. It speaks to your intellectual honesty (or lack thereof) that you are coming into this game effectively telling those (which is quite a few of us) that suspected nameloc yesterday to be full of crap.

Do you think I'm scummy or do you not think I'm scummy for doing what I did after replacing in?

I wasn't asking you to validate your question in any other way than this.

If it's not going to help you determine my alignment, then there was no reason to mention it.

And this is the major problem I have with your play. Lots of questions or statements but you haven't actually been hunting scum.

Maybe you do believe this, but maybe you're trying to appease the Amrun wagon while simultaneously causing some misdirection by voting me and drumming up a new offense on me based on an old argument. I could conceivably see some Amrun - Muffin pairing here.

hahahaha,

What Amrun wagon? There were no votes on Amrun before I posted today. Before you posted, there was a single vote on her. What wagon was there to appease?

Try harder.