Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[farside22]

Farside: what odds does it make to Duplicity whether they pushed yours or Maxous' lynch? Scum couldn't have won yesterday anyway. Are you saying that scum don't think of reasons not to lynch people? To give one particularly pertinent hypothetical, if the Duplicity slot is town, why did NE produce a townread on Oso during D1 when he could have easily maintained him as a suspect? I'm certainly not sold on a TS-Dup scumteam, but I think your reason for doubting Dup-scum is fairly weak.

Giving a town read to another player is common scum tactic, do I even need to mention WC's play in American God's and giving town reads on people. However look at what he said in comparison to Dup's. WC was all about saying gut. Dup is giving examples. Have you ever seen scum actually give examples of why they find someone town? I sure haven't. Plus mislynch me yesterday and he still could give a Max/TS combo today. Why fight against one after thinking I was scum to saying I'm town. I typically see scum stay consistent, because inconsistency gets you caught and questioned. I don't see how this is weak reasoning.

[farside22]

Pro: I already stated who my 3 suspects are but if it helps.

Pro
Locke
Twisted

Quilly

mason confirmed town

Dup

town read

farside

Me

[Twistedspoon]

This is a complete contradiction to the opinion you had of Prosaurus at day-start....

?

I never said i didn't think he was scum. I just appreciate playing with him alignment-regardless.
on the topic of him being scum I was hoping for a massclaim so we could see how balanced the town are for PRs
then, if we seem to have too many it could be possible that mafia had daytalk to balance this out and so prosaurus' daytalk slip becomes a viable scumtell
so I'd like to propose massclaim again.

[Locke Lamora]

Farside: scum do that all the time. I've done that as scum; hell, I even did it in American Gods mafia by giving reasons why I found both you and GG town, so it's pretty obvious why I think it's a weak tell. I do agree with you about the consistency, though. Something that's really making me doubt Pro right now is the choice of targets in the context of the NK. Thoughts on this?

[Prosaurus]

@LL If I changed my suspicions because of the NK it would be to you and FS because Rhinox didn't really expect anyone else for a scumteam. I already had suspicions of you and FS.

[Duplicity]

I never said i didn't think he was scum. I just appreciate playing with him alignment-regardless.

That's not at all what you said, you believe he's been awesome this game therefore you're entirely comfortable with his contributions leaving your entire basis of him being scum down to the fact he mentioned day-talk.

On a side note, G has promised to talk tommorow afternoon. I refuse to continously await his thoughts before I post my reads and opinions in here so if he doesn't actually turn up to have a discussion then I'll replace out and rejoin with my own account. This game is in a crucial period where activity and discussion is badly needed otherwise it's just going to stagnate.

[Locke Lamora]

Pro: so you'd say that your top two suspects going into last night were Farside and myself?

[Duplicity]

Pro: so you'd say that your top two suspects going into last night were Farside and myself?

What I believe Pros is attempting to say is that if you were to ask her to revise her reads based purely on the NK she would believe the scum would be you and Farside due to Rhinox suspecting a possible partnership between you.

[Locke Lamora]

Yes, exactly. So if scum had designed the NK to make Farside/me look like the most likely scumteam, I have doubts about Prosaurus' motives in pushing that scumteam, particularly when Prosaurus' play has been pretty devoid of any analysis for some time now.

[Duplicity]

Yes, exactly. So if scum had designed the NK to make Farside/me look like the most likely scumteam, I have doubts about Prosaurus' motives in pushing that scumteam, particularly when Prosaurus' play has been pretty devoid of any analysis for some time now.

I would disagree, I personally believe that the Rhinox NK as I previously stated increases the likelihood that TwistedSpoon is mafia rather than you and Farside being a scum-team thus I don't understand how Pros attempting to push the fact he believes the NK leads towards you two when questioned is scummy. Although G and I seem to be disagreeing on a lot of reads right now both of us still maintain our solid Pros-town read thus I don't see any particular way analysis over his play is beneficial at the moment. I'm much more interested in a mass-claim.

[Locke Lamora]

I'm looking at it this way: Rhinox basically stated two scumteams that he thought were likely. Maxous' flip eliminated one of those. Anyone reviewing Rhinox's suspicions would thus conclude that the most likely people to want him dead based on his suspicions were Farside and myself. If that was part of the motivation for the kill, I'd expect at least one of the scum to try and push a Farside/me scumteam. Prosaurus is the player who has most actively pushed this scumteam, without seeming to do much analysis of the game otherwise, and I know I'm town, so the combination of the the facts means that I have concerns about Pro's slot. Yes, it's all WIFOM-y, I just have a bad feeling about it.

[Duplicity]

I can understand where you're coming from though but I don't see much benefit in attempting to push such trivial and irrelevant lines of questioning towards Pros. Even if you believe he's mafia it's not likely to attain any results. If you have any real concerns about his play apart from the fact he's pushing towards yourself I'd like to hear it.

I disagree is with the reasoning behind the kill, if you take a look at Rhinox's play it becomes very obvious that he puts a great deal of effort into scumhunting and into the game. He shows willingness to change his thoughts and opinions whenever given a new piece of information. Therefore I read the kill as mafia being scared that he could potentially change his reads towards them

[Locke Lamora]

Yeah, it's plausible that it had nothing to do with Rhinox's suspects at all. To be honest I haven't found much benefit in pushing any lines of questioning at Prosaurus thus far as he never seems to provide much back. My concerns over Prosaurus are partly due to what I found in NE's ISO, partly because I think he's contributed very little, particularly since the start of D2, and partly because he tiptoed round the NE situation without really committing himself. I'm planning to look at him in more detail to develop my read.

[Duplicity]

I'm planning to look at him in more detail to develop my read.

I certaintly am interested in awaiting this though I don't think there's much likelihood that our town-read on him is going to change anytime soon.

I'm actually interested in what your read on our slot currently is.

[Locke Lamora]

I have a townread on you; I think you've been more actively scumhunting and analysing than most players in the game and I find you more pro-town than Farside, and certainly than TS and Prosaurus, although the lack of input today (and yes, I know this is a hydra issue) diminishes that a little. I'm a little dubious about that post I stated from Oso but other than that, pretty town.

[farside22]

Farside: scum do that all the time. I've done that as scum; hell, I even did it in American Gods mafia by giving reasons why I found both you and GG town, so it's pretty obvious why I think it's a weak tell. I do agree with you about the consistency, though. Something that's really making me doubt Pro right now is the choice of targets in the context of the NK. Thoughts on this?

Night kills are WIFOM. Lets not forget how WC killed Lmp in American God's to cause confusion between Me and GG. I try after that game especially not to read too much into them.

I have a townread on you; I think you've been more actively scumhunting and analysing than most players in the game and I find you more pro-town than Farside, and certainly than TS and Prosaurus, although the lack of input today (and yes, I know this is a hydra issue) diminishes that a little. I'm a little dubious about that post I stated from Oso but other than that, pretty town.

Didn't you just say you had Dup/TS scum team, what changed and why?

[Locke Lamora]

You've played this game long enough to know that just because something can create WIFOM, it doesn't mean we can't take anything useful from it. For some reason, scum chose to kill Rhinox over a confirmed townie. I don't think it's a bad idea for me to look into some possibilities that explain that decision.

I think Oso's interactions with NE and TS look more like a buddy than yours or Prosaurus' do. I don't think Duplicity's play has been scummy and on Duplicity's play alone they're my strongest townread. I'm still trying to piece this all together and nothing quite fits yet. I think there are points for and against pretty much every combination and two people still have to be scum, so I'm going over everything trying to make sense of it all.

[farside22]

LL: I have seen scum use kills to make others look guilty, I have been lynch before do to a NK in my time. I have seen scum try to cause confusion ala American God's. I have seen scum kill confirmed town for obv reason's. When you look into the NK it's in my view in favor of the scum team and helps them more then the town.

Also your response doesn't explain why you believed TS/Dup scum team and now your saying you see him town.

[Locke Lamora]

I have a townread on Duplicity based on their play. Being able to believe a TS/Dup team was based on Oso and not Duplicity. Can I see them as TS and NE's buddy? Yes. Do I want to lynch them before TS? No. I do not have a definitive answer as to who I think is the scumteam right now. Once I've reread everything and tried a few more combinations in detail then I might be able to give you a better answer.

[neil1113]

Vote Count #1.1:
Day Four

Twistedspoon

(1): Locke Lamora

farside22

(0)

Locke Lamora

(0):

Duplicity

(0):

Quilford

(0):

Prosaurus

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

(5): Prosaurus, Quilford, Duplicity, Twistedspoon, Farside22

V/LA

(0):

Prodding:

(0):

With

6

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

Deadline

for Day Four is

5:00 PM EST 06/01/11

[Prosaurus]

Heh. I reckon what's happening with the night kill is LL/FS (or maybe only one of them) has done this NK so they can say scum are trying to frame them. If it's only one of them it's good for scum because then a townie will be lynched if they're caught.

[farside22]

Heh. I reckon what's happening with the night kill is LL/FS (or maybe only one of them) has done this NK so they can say scum are trying to frame them. If it's only one of them it's good for scum because then a townie will be lynched if they're caught.

You do realize that TS is pointing to you as scum for the kill and LS is the one saying it was a frame.
Just out of curiosity why did you not notice this or comment on TS's WIFOM of the death of Rhinox against you?

[Duplicity]

LL: I have seen scum use kills to make others look guilty, I have been lynch before do to a NK in my time. I have seen scum try to cause confusion ala American God's. I have seen scum kill confirmed town for obv reason's. When you look into the NK it's in my view in favor of the scum team and helps them more then the town.

Attaining and drawing information from the nightkills is a big part to the game, sure you don't create and rest a case upon it but it's needed in this thread discussion about it occurs.

Currently having the conversation with G, we're quite positive we've found one scum, should have a case up later tonight.

[Prosaurus]

Heh. I reckon what's happening with the night kill is LL/FS (or maybe only one of them) has done this NK so they can say scum are trying to frame them. If it's only one of them it's good for scum because then a townie will be lynched if they're caught.

You do realize that TS is pointing to you as scum for the kill and LS is the one saying it was a frame.
Just out of curiosity why did you not notice this or comment on TS's WIFOM of the death of Rhinox against you?

I can't see TS blaming me for the NK in the last two pages at least. And if you mean LL then that's what I was saying...

[Locke Lamora]

Heh. I reckon what's happening with the night kill is LL/FS (or maybe only one of them) has done this NK so they can say scum are trying to frame them. If it's only one of them it's good for scum because then a townie will be lynched if they're caught.

TS suggested that you might be scum because you were inexperienced enough to not kill a confirmed townie over Rhinox.

Heh. I reckon what's happening with the night kill is LL/FS (or maybe only one of them) has done this NK so they can say scum are trying to frame them. If it's only one of them it's good for scum because then a townie will be lynched if they're caught.

You do realize that TS is pointing to you as scum for the kill and LS is the one saying it was a frame.
Just out of curiosity why did you not notice this or comment on TS's WIFOM of the death of Rhinox against you?

I can't see TS blaming me for the NK in the last two pages at least. And if you mean LL then that's what I was saying...

TS suggested you were inexperienced enough to not kill a confirmed townie over Rhinox. It really wasn't that long ago. Do you think that the Rhinox kill is more likely to have come from a Farside/me team, or a team containing only one of us?