Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[Soben]

Amrum, I can agree with your read on Zdenek and WrathChild though I'd like you to explain the Mana-Ku town read though because I'm getting town-vibes from her posts but am unable to put the reasoning behind it in words myself.

SGR, instead of keeping separate quick-topics for every player in the game can you just state your reads on them. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

[SnakePlissken]

What is with the multiple vote/unvote/vote thing? I don't get it.

Mana why Beefster? Has chesskid been Mafia in any RECENT games? CMR is clocking Town to me at the moment. SGR is just plain weird. I always get a uneasy feeling around Gandalf and Riceballtail is a null tell to me currently. As for everyone else I haven't sepnt enough time looking at them.

VOTE: Gandalf

[SGRaaize]

SGR, instead of keeping separate quick-topics for every player in the game can you just state your reads on them. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Nah, as your other head rightly says, its boring shit. I'l just reread from time to time.

[gandalf5166]

In Lost S4 chess was SK. The last actual scum game I remember playing with him was Random Mafia XXL. I'm sure he's been scum in some others more recently though.

[Soben]

SGR, instead of keeping separate quick-topics for every player in the game can you just state your reads on them. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

Nah, as your other head rightly says, its boring shit. I'l just reread from time to time.

QFT

[WrathChild]

Who's stupid effing idea was the claiming game? I say we lynch them. I know SGR advocated, but I have to go back and see where it orginated. Was it ABR?

[WrathChild]

Nope. It originated with SGR and LMP advocated it.

@LMP: Where you being sarcastic when you said that unlimited mislynches is a good thing? When you said SGR's plan was so towny it hurt?

[WrathChild]

EBWOP: "Were" not "Where"

[SGRaaize]

Erm.....
WrathChild, the plan is not gonna be followed, because Snow_Bunny said we would be banned for using it, but...
How is the plan bad?
If we lynch a Town, instead of the day skipping to night, we get another lynch.
Meaning: Each day ends with one Scum lynched, at the very least.

[WrathChild]

Erm.....
WrathChild, the plan is not gonna be followed, because Snow_Bunny said we would be banned for using it, but...
How is the plan bad?
If we lynch a Town, instead of the day skipping to night, we get another lynch.
Meaning: Each day ends with one Scum lynched, at the very least.

No shit we aren't doing the plan because it's a terribad idea. You are trying to justify forced claiming and countless mislynches. Yeah we lynch scum after one "mislynch"... great, but what about after two or three or four. On top of that your threatening our power roles. And on top of THAT, you don't even know if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Maybe Pine had a posting restriction he violated and was killed because of that instead of his claim.

It was an awful and scummy plan and that's why we should lynch you.

UNVOTE, VOTE: SGR

[gandalf5166]

@WC: Yes, we might end up having 4 mislynches before a scum lynch...... But couldn't the same thing happen normally? Only if we have four mislynches normally, we probably just lost the game? The point is, we were GUARANTEED to kill one scum per day.

[chesskid3]

ITT only amrun has eyes.

[SGRaaize]

@WC: Yes, we might end up having 4 mislynches before a scum lynch...... But couldn't the same thing happen normally? Only if we have four mislynches normally, we probably just lost the game? The point is, we were GUARANTEED to kill one scum per day.

Exactly.
By following the plan, we would have taken away the advantage from Mafia (Being able to kill someone at Night) and would at least guarantee this game would end in 5-6 days.

We would have an unlimited number of tries until we got Scum. The game would go at our pace, too, because Mafia would like, have the right to kill four or five people before losing. Instead of having an equal number of kills as we haev of lynches.

We would need to be total morons to lose the game under those circumstances.

[SGRaaize]

if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Of course that's what killed Pine.
Hey, WrathChild, you might want to read the thread slowly and carefully before bothering to share your opinion and/or vote. You are missing obvious details. Either that, or you're just reaching to try to lynch me.

[WrathChild]

if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Of course that's what killed Pine.
Hey, WrathChild, you might want to read the thread slowly and carefully before bothering to share your opinion and/or vote. You are missing obvious details. Either that, or you're just reaching to try to lynch me.

You have no way of knowing what killed Pine. You're trying to outguess the mod.

[WrathChild]

Well, that was extreme. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Theoretically, didn't we just find a way to auto-win this game?
Instead of us actually vote-lynching people, we say "Vote: XXX", if there's a majority, that person is forced to claim his role and be killed.

Unlimited lynches D1. Trollface.jpg

Although I guess that would be cheap, and SnowBunny would probably mod-kill me if I tried to do that.
I was just joking

Oh, that is just the beginning if you ever do that. Really, people, the ones who have played with me before should know how I get trigger-happy when a player breaks one of my rules. Now try to imagine what I would do if someone even tried to break my game.

Btw, I just want to clarify something: a mod-kill is an action from my part to punish a player, usually ones who breaks the rules. A modkilled player will lose the game, regardless of its faction or wincon. However, that's an out-of-the-game kill. There may be certain in-game mechanics that may affect players, ranging from mod-controllable effects to bizarre-immediate-resolving player abilities.

SB pretty much spells it out that it was NOT a mod-kill as a mod-kill would be denoted by a Giant "PINE LOSES" sign. He then proceeds to clarify by saying that certain abilities may have immediate affects.

[WrathChild]

ITT only amrun has eyes.

Perhaps, others feel it isn't best to dwell on things that should not be dwelt upon.

[WrathChild]

@WC: Yes, we might end up having 4 mislynches before a scum lynch...... But couldn't the same thing happen normally? Only if we have four mislynches normally, we probably just lost the game? The point is, we were GUARANTEED to kill one scum per day.

Exactly.
By following the plan, we would have taken away the advantage from Mafia (Being able to kill someone at Night) and would at least guarantee this game would end in 5-6 days.

We would have an unlimited number of tries until we got Scum. The game would go at our pace, too, because Mafia would like, have the right to kill four or five people before losing. Instead of having an equal number of kills as we haev of lynches.

We would need to be total morons to lose the game under those circumstances.

Do you forget that once we lynch scum, they still get NK? Here let me explain how bad of a plan this is in detail:

-Forced Claim
-Modkill (town)
-Forced Claim
-Modkill (town)
-Forced Claim
-Modkill (town)
-Forced Claim (Faked)
-No Modkill
-Lynch (Scum)
-Day Ends
-Night Kill
-Rinse Repeat

We just lost 4 town to 1 scum and the process continues until town realize that we're committing suicide. On top of that it's on completely false grounds (assuming claiming=mod-kill).

SB said claiming is a bad idea and I know exactly why. I suspect you do too, but you're playing dumb to try to force claims.

[GreyICE]

But lets label those players A,B,C, and D.

A, B, and C are scummy enough to be mislynches.

D is scum.

So assume that we do it 1 lynch per day.
A
NK
B
NK
C
NK
D
NK

So that loses us 7 townies to 1 scum.

The way he proposed loses us 4 townies to 1 scum. So it would end up saving lives.

The question is, is the game breakable this way. I would tend to say no.

[gandalf5166]

if that's what got Pine killed, so you're going to be pushing a lynch on someone who claims but doesn't get mod-killed probably based on coincidence more than evidence.

Of course that's what killed Pine.
Hey, WrathChild, you might want to read the thread slowly and carefully before bothering to share your opinion and/or vote. You are missing obvious details. Either that, or you're just reaching to try to lynch me.

You have no way of knowing what killed Pine. You're trying to outguess the mod.

Look at the flavor of Pine's death. Then look at the flavor of Andrius' death.

[WrathChild]

First, though you can paraphrase your role pm and make a claim, it is not advised to do so.

[WrathChild]

The above was a SB quote from the rules.

[gandalf5166]

The above was a SB quote from the rules.

You're proving our point.

[WrathChild]

But lets label those players A,B,C, and D.

A, B, and C are scummy enough to be mislynches.

D is scum.

So assume that we do it 1 lynch per day.
A
NK
B
NK
C
NK
D
NK

So that loses us 7 townies to 1 scum.

The way he proposed loses us 4 townies to 1 scum. So it would end up saving lives.

The question is, is the game breakable this way. I would tend to say no.

This is a great theory and all but it's totally flawed. This is under the assumption that NOTHING happens over the course of each night to provide us with more information than we hold on Day 1. This is proposterous considering how role-heavy this game is.

It was a terrible and scummy plan.

[gandalf5166]

Okay. If N1 is going to give us SO much info, why are we lynching today? We should all switch to no lynch, right? Because we might mislynch today, but TOMORROW. We'll be SO much better off!