Mini 1166: Town Hall Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

I'm not assuming that they have daytalk. I'm assuming that if Kuz was newbscum, his partners would have coached him in pre game talk because that's what was done to me in my first games as scum. I was told how to act and how to react under pressure.

And it's not the wagon hopping that has me suspicious of ThAD. It's that in two of the wagons he's been a part of, he's quoted and agreed with iam. I never said this meant anything. I was just looking for possible connections.

And CWorl, what is with the all caps "Look at Emp and MK as scum"? Why would someone on my wagon be scum? Considering that aside from Emp, Fishy is the only one with a vote on me, and that no other suspicion has fallen on Emp during Day 1, what does he possibly have to gain by voting a scumbuddy, assuming your theory is correct? You're reaching.

[Rhinox]

I think I just changed my mind.

unvote, vote: MK

Why would someone on my wagon be scum?

Have you ever heard of... bussing?

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

Oh yeah I've heard of it. But assuming we're both scum, what does he stand to gain by bussing my in this situation?

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

EBWODP. me*

[C-Worl]

My reason for my suspicions is based on us drawing ever faster to deadline. And instead of going for a wagon that appeared it might go somewhere both went to smaller wagons. My belief is they want a No Lynch but don't want it to look like they want a No Lynch.

[C-Worl]

Oh yeah I've heard of it. But assuming we're both scum, what does he stand to gain by bussing my in this situation?

Town points. Which is the whole reason behind bussing.

[Fishythefish]

My reason for my suspicions is based on us drawing ever faster to deadline. And instead of going for a wagon that appeared it might go somewhere both went to smaller wagons. My belief is they want a No Lynch but don't want it to look like they want a No Lynch.

Hmmm? It seems the only wagon that qualifies for you as one that might appear to go somewhere is the Archaist wagon - so really here you're pushing that lynch under the guise of trying to get a lynch. And that you are ignoring other people on small wagons - why name Emp and MK over Sab, Rhinox and myself?

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

Town points. Which is the whole reason behind bussing.

I don't buy that. My wagon was minuscule before Emp joined it. In fact if anything he was one of the catalysts towards my wagon becoming one of the major ones.

C-Worl, Rhinox. What do you think of each other, and what do you think of the other wagons on ThAD and Archaist?

[ThAdmiral]

I see what you did there mitsuro. Asking questions about other people to deflect attention off of yourself.

MK is officially my second pick for scum.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

I'm not deflecting any attention off myself. I'm genuinely curious. This is still a game of questions, regardless of the fact I've got votes on me.

[EmpTyger]

I hate to say this so close to deadline, but I'm not happy with my MK vote. He's raising good points, yet getting attacked for it.

Unvote: Mitsuru Kirijo

C-Worl:
You're not even acknowledging the problems with your [216].


Rhinox:

Why would someone on my wagon be scum?

Have you ever heard of... bussing?

No. MK is absolutely right here. C-Worl does need to explain this. because his allcapped "Archaist/MK/Tyger mafia" theory has some obvious holes he is still not acknowledging. And C-Worl clearly did not intend bussing, not when his supposed point was that we were suspicious for *not* bussing our alleged comafia Archaist.


ThAd:

I see what you did there mitsuro. Asking questions about other people to deflect attention off of yourself.

That's not suspicious, that's not even close to what's happening, and MK is asking good questions.


iama:
C-Worl is looking really bad, yet I'm having trouble seeing him partnered with anyone besides you. Yet I could see you partnered with a lot of people.


MK:
So are you suspicious of iama?


Archaist:
Sell me on C-Worl. Or not-you, alternatively.

[Rhinox]

Mitsuro's reaction felt like cworl struck a nerve with his comment.

"Why would someone on my wagon be scum?" - blanket statement not referring to anyone specific. Counter-question: Why wouldn't someone on your wagon be scum?

"Considering that aside from Emp, Fishy is the only one with a vote on me, and that no other suspicion has fallen on Emp during Day 1, what does he possibly have to gain by voting a scumbuddy, assuming your theory is correct? You're reaching." - this says a whole lot of nothing. What does it matter that no other suspicion has fallen on emp? that doesn't mean he's not scum (nor that he is). What does he have to lose by voting a scum buddy? Up until my vote, Mitsuro was mostly being ignored and there was no real threat of him being lynched. Scum parking their vote on a scumbuddy who's not under threat of lynch is a good distancing tactic.

Emp unvoting as soon as Mits wagon gets a little momentum is like... *twitch*. Kinda makes me rethink because I believe scum empking would keep bussing at this point if thats really whats going on rather than unvoting, because if mits really is scum, once he flips this would look really bad for emp.

[C-Worl]

My reason for my suspicions is based on us drawing ever faster to deadline. And instead of going for a wagon that appeared it might go somewhere both went to smaller wagons. My belief is they want a No Lynch but don't want it to look like they want a No Lynch.

Hmmm? It seems the only wagon that qualifies for you as one that might appear to go somewhere is the Archaist wagon - so really here you're pushing that lynch under the guise of trying to get a lynch. And that you are ignoring other people on small wagons - why name Emp and MK over Sab, Rhinox and myself?

archaist was the biggest wagon. That's why. I excluded y'all at the time bc you weren't the ones who voted after Beef's "Day grows near" type post.

Also, logically the best time to buss a buddy is toward the beginning. MK's defense is lolable.

[Beefster]

Votecount 1.9

Archaist (3) - iamausername, ThAdmiral, C-Worl

ThAdmiral (2) - sAb, Mitsuru Kirijo
MK (2) - Fishy, Rhinox
C-Worl (1) - Archaist

Not Voting

- EmpTyger

With 9 players alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

REMINDER: The deadline is 11:59 PM, May 25 (MDT)

That's just under 36 hours from the time of this post.
If no majority is reached by that time, a no lynch will occur.

[Fishythefish]

Wait what? Isn't it 36 hours from now?

Yes. My bad.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

CWorl, Rhinox, you didn't answer my question.

[C-Worl]

Mitsuro's reaction felt like cworl struck a nerve with his comment.

"Why would someone on my wagon be scum?" - blanket statement not referring to anyone specific. Counter-question: Why wouldn't someone on your wagon be scum?

"Considering that aside from Emp, Fishy is the only one with a vote on me, and that no other suspicion has fallen on Emp during Day 1, what does he possibly have to gain by voting a scumbuddy, assuming your theory is correct? You're reaching." - this says a whole lot of nothing. What does it matter that no other suspicion has fallen on emp? that doesn't mean he's not scum (nor that he is). What does he have to lose by voting a scum buddy? Up until my vote, Mitsuro was mostly being ignored and there was no real threat of him being lynched. Scum parking their vote on a scumbuddy who's not under threat of lynch is a good distancing tactic.

Emp unvoting as soon as Mits wagon gets a little momentum is like... *twitch*. Kinda makes me rethink because I believe scum empking would keep bussing at this point if thats really whats going on rather than unvoting, because if mits really is scum, once he flips this would look really bad for emp.

Rhinox is town for this post.

[Beefster]

Archaist has been prodded.
The deadline will not be extended.

[EmpTyger]

C-Worl and Rhinox are proposing that I'm mafia because I voted MK (who they are saying is mafia) instead of voting Archaist (who would have to be town). 
How about Occam's razor- the guy pushing a lynch on Archaist despite saying the above is the guilty one?
And with him, Rhinox who meanwhile is arguing that mafia would be doing the exact thing he himself is doing.
Especially after C-Worl declares Rhinox town for voting MK right after declaring I'm obvscum for voting MK.

I made a mistake letting up on Rhinox. It won't happen tomorrow. If there weren't less than 36 hours left and 0 current voters, it wouldn't have happened today. As it is:

Vote: C-Worl

(And iama's initial read on C-Worl is nullified. Because at this point C-Worl's been explicitly told that there is no 3-person mafia, yet he's nevertheless spouting a theory of a Archaist/MK/Tyger mafia. If he can feign ignorance of the size of the antitown group now, he could at the start of the game just as easily.)

[Archaist]

I've re-read MK in ISO and don't see him as scum. Rhinox's #226 isn't nearly sufficient reason for a vote, and EmpTyger's vote on #213 doesn't have any reason. I'm also not buying C-Worl's #216, and his explanation in #229. Not being on the main wagon near the deadline isn't necessarily a scum tell. Seems like he's just trying to push a last minute theory to steer votes.
My vote stays where it is.

[Rhinox]

@emp: I'm not really proposing that you're mafia at all, other than if mits flips scum then you're unvote is like ???? considering I had just tied mits for the leading wagon before you voted.

My last post wasn't really that clear. Its not that I think you're both scum, its that mits reaction is one of being nervous of being called out as scum - arguing that IN NO WAY could you be her scum partner thus she is not scum. I don't see it being implausible you could be mits' scum partner, but its more that mits' argument seems kinda strawmannish I guess. Assert that you wouldn't bus thus she is not scum. When actually looking at C-worl's accusatory post iso 44, it wasn't even clear at the time if he thought you were scum partners or just mutually exclusive scum suspects. Mits (or noone else) stopped to ask, mits just jumped right into trying to prove that you both can't be scum together thus he is not scum.

"Rhinox who meanwhile is arguing that mafia would be doing the exact thing he himself is doing." - I don't follow

Actually, didn't you just do the same thing you accused me of doing earlier in the game? I mean, all I have to do is switch a couple names:

Rhinox

emp:
You said that

kuz

Mits was suspicious and voted him.
Other players said that

kuz

Mits was suspicious and voted him.
You said that the

kuz

Mits-voters were suspicious, because of how they were voting

kuz

Mits.

I don't think I've ever seen an innocent player get upset that their suspect is being voted.

Is it not pretty much exactly the same scenario you were accusing me of?

[Fishythefish]

UNVOTE: VOTE: ThAd

Currently feel better about this than the Arch wagon - the amount of pressure there's been on him over relatively little just stinks. We need a lynch, so it's time to vote for one of these two people.

[Fishythefish]

Reason I'm excluding MK and C-Worl here, excellent choices though they are: there just aren't enough people who have been thinking about and going after them to get a lynch on them today.

[iamausername]

iama:
How did you process-of-eliminate sAb?

See here. kuz confused sAb with me, ergo he is not scum with sAb.

Why do you ask me this, and not why I'm process of eliminating Mitsuru?

iama:
C-Worl is looking really bad, yet I'm having trouble seeing him partnered with anyone besides you. Yet I could see you partnered with a lot of people.

Why are you telling me this?

(And iama's initial read on C-Worl is nullified. Because at this point C-Worl's been explicitly told that there is no 3-person mafia, yet he's nevertheless spouting a theory of a Archaist/MK/Tyger mafia. If he can feign ignorance of the size of the antitown group now, he could at the start of the game just as easily.)

Makes sense, but I still don't see scum feigning ignorance to look town, waiting for someone to call it a town tell, and then dropping the act to explain the town tell instead of waiting for me to do it. I'm applying both Occam's and Hanlon's Razors and declaring C-Worl still town.

So, for the sake of posterity, if we're not going to lynch Archaist like we obviously should, my preference for lynches goes ThAd > MK > C-Worl. Well, of the lynches that have any chance of happening, that is. I'd much rather lynch Rhinox than any of them.

[iamausername]

Now, while we're on the subject of feiging ignorance, can someone explain the progression of Archaist's posts on page 7/8?

I declare C-Worl and ThAd to be town and he says this:

If you're going to name people town or scum it would be helpful to give some reasons first. You sound really sure of yourself, too sure for it to be just a gut feeling.

C-Worl calls him out for not reading the thread properly, since my reason for declaring C-Worl town has been a pretty big talking point, and he argues with C-Worl about it for a while, insisting that I never gave any explanation for my read.

But then in the middle of this argument, he makes a big post giving reads on every player (Are they voting for me? scum. Have they ever voted me, or given the impression that they might? neutral. Everyone else? town.), and in it, he says this:

iamausername: Had a town read on C-Worl for

one line

(#39).

...but then he goes right back to arguing with C-Worl about how I never explained my town read at all. What the hell?